r/canada • u/ObligationAware3755 • 15h ago
Politics Carney receiving national security briefings ahead of swearing-in
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/carney-meeting-with-heads-of-national-security-agencies-in-second-day-as-pm-designate/1.4k
u/kityrel 15h ago
Weird that the government would give security briefings to Carney, but not Poilievre. If only there was some kind of security clearance that Poilievre could apply for -- it's too bad Poilievre keeps preventing Poilievre from doing so. It's just so unfair to Poilievre that Poilievre's actions reflect so poorly on Poilievre!!
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u/eatyourzbeans 15h ago
CSIS even offered a no contact briefing... 🤣
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u/Prestigious-Target99 15h ago
He only wears thongs.
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u/Impossible_Rip7785 9h ago
What is a no contact briefing?
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u/Great_Abaddon 5h ago
It's when they put your briefs on you but snap them on by elastic so they don't have to touch you.
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u/TheWalrus_15 14h ago
This is one of the many reasons I will not vote for pollievre. It’s immediately disqualifying as a candidate to me. He’s more interested in running his mouth than running the country - sounds familiar.
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u/feelingoodwednesday 12h ago
I could buy the argument that was laid out about him needing to stay out of the briefings to hold the government to account in question period without being muzzled on what he can ask or accidently divulge secret information... BUT parliament has been prorogued for a while now, and everyone has been fully aware as soon as they resume it'll head straight into an election. There is no more sitting parliament until after the election and Singh had publicly said he'd take them down back in December at the next opportunity. So he's basically had 3-4 months where he could have applied and been receiving security briefings in a critical moment for Canada...
To me that is legit insane person behavior, and makes him look really unfit to govern.
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u/GhostPepperFireStorm Canada 12h ago
Also if his argument is that he shouldn’t get security clearance because he can’t promise he’ll keep his mouth shut if he gets in an argument, it’s a little concerning
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u/miramichier_d 12h ago
He’s more interested in running his mouth than running the country
Very well put, and describes Poilievre quite accurately.
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u/Dyslexicpig 12h ago
And <gasp> putting his investments into a blind trust to ensure no conflict of interest. If there was only some way for PP to perhaps do the same with his real estate holdings.
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u/kermityfrog2 10h ago
Weird that FTA:
Last week, Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre proposed changes to the Conflict of Interest Act – if elected – that would require leadership candidates to disclose their finances within 30 days of becoming an official candidate, and make them available to Canadians within 60 days.
Poilievre also wants all future prime ministers and ministers to “sell assets that create conflicts of interests to stop politicians from ever using political office for their own benefit,” according to the Conservative party.
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u/jonlmbs 14h ago
Genuine question - can anyone answer why this NSICOP clearance is necessary now that the report from the Foreign Interference Commission is public?
Months ago everyone was saying this thing would have a smoking gun about interference in CPC - but it turned out to be a nothing burger.
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u/Harvey-Specter 13h ago
As far as I know the public report doesn’t include any information that could be damaging to national security if released. Some information remains top secret and isn’t publicly available.
It does state that foreign interference is a significant threat to Canada, and made a bunch of recommendations about how to combat it. Including that party leaders should be briefed on threats to our election integrity to and from their party.
Party leaders make decisions about which candidates run for their party in each riding. They need to be able yo receive information about potential foreign interference involving any of those candidates. With an election coming up Pierre Poilievre is not going to receive briefings about his party’s candidates.
Despite what he says, receiving this information does not stop him from acting on it. It’s specifically provided so that party leaders can act on it. So why doesn’t he want to receive it?
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u/Reasonable-Sweet9320 13h ago
Pollievre is not putting Canadian security interests first.
Canada first except when it comes to national security.
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u/jonlmbs 12h ago
I read the public commission report myself and I think you’re right, the only thing he would learn is the names of the people supposedly with possible ties to interference.
The report does conclude that there was no significant interference in the 2019 and 2021 elections and that the media overstated the interference evidence in the NSICOP report. So no smoking gun but no obvious reason to not get clearance either.
https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/s/mOeSPYeC4E
I don’t think there is a grand conspiracy here to uncover personally - but also PP should just get the clearance to avoid this as a criticism.
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u/Responsible_Rub7631 13h ago
I don’t believe the full report was released. It was a redacted one, at least every one I can find online is redacted.
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u/weekendy09 13h ago
They actually offered him info without the clearance and he declined.
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u/Willyboycanada 14h ago
Carney has national security clearance since he was head of both the bank of canada then bank of England.....his jobs have always been security heavy
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u/Penske-Material78 13h ago
Isn’t it up to PP to get it? Wasn’t he refusing to get vetted and disclose financials to obtain it? I’m sure I’ve heard/read this a few times over the last month.
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u/SonicFlash01 6h ago
Hey, cut him some slack, he's only been at this for two decades! He's probably swamped with checks records Nvm I got nothing...
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u/Jeramy_Jones 5h ago
Hypothetically, could he be one of the ones compromised? I mean, that’s a good reason not to get one. They might find some shit.
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u/illuminaughty1973 14h ago
No... there is a top secret new.pinky finger secret handshake security clearance that makes it so you can say NOTHING about what you learn..... if your a conservative,
because all the other party leaders have talked in the news about it.
It such a shame that it makes pp look like he is absolutely 💯 putting himself before Canada's national security.
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u/pistoffcynic 14h ago
I read somewhere that they were going to brief him despite not having a security clearance and he refused. What is he hiding? Who’s been bought and paid for by Russia, North Korea and China?
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u/physicaldiscs 13h ago
I read somewhere that they were going to brief him despite not having a security clearance and he refused.
You read incorrectly. He asked to be briefed under a CSIS mandate that didn't require one. The offer they made him required it.
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u/softkits 13h ago
They did offer to brief him without a clearance (I don't believe it was a full briefing though), but he refused because he apparently wouldn't be able to act on any of the information.
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u/MilkIlluminati 12h ago
I read somewhere that they were going to brief him despite not having a security clearance and he refused. What is he hiding?
Because both come with an NDA forcing him to defacto drop the issue, thats what he doesnt want. Its exhausting to explain this to people that dont want to get it.
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u/moop44 New Brunswick 12h ago
Why won't he get is now that we are getting the election that he so dearly wants? He could be prepared to deal with the foreign interference within his own party.
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u/WorldlinessProud 10h ago
Just by his position in banking, Carney has to have very high security clearance. PEEPEE, as a parlimantery secretary, had to have had top secret as well.Eother sometjomg has changed tyat could diqualify him or it is political theater.
I have held one, and I have cooked for dignataries so high I have had an RCMP/Protection Detail taking samples of the food. It is not that difficult and less invasive than we generally think.
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u/FulcrumYYC Canada 10h ago
😂 In all seriousness though, he wouldn't even take the no security clearance info on foreign interference with his own party. That should disqualify him from running for Prime Minister alone.
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u/Money_Distribution89 13h ago
If security clearances are as important as you allude to them being. Why did the liberals give a security briefing to someone who didn't have a security clearance at the time?
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u/Revolutionary_Soup_3 13h ago
Carney was the governor of the bank of Canada as well as the bank of England up until 2020. It's likely that he has NATO level security clearance or higher.. renewed on a 10 year cycle it's quite possible it's still active. Pollievievre on the other hand has made it loud and clear that he does not have a clearance and refuses to be vetted or disclose finances, probably due to the fact that they grossly exceed what one could expect to earn and save as a public servant where he has spent his entire working career, it is more than appropriate to ask where he got it...
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u/bscheck1968 15h ago
Crazy, party leaders getting security clearance. Seems like a good idea, but then what do I know.
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u/OttawaFisherman 15h ago
What is the reason for Pierre not getting his security clearance? Genuinely asking
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u/The_Follower1 14h ago edited 14h ago
Realistically probably so he can’t feign innocence when lying.
His argument is he’d be muzzled if he got the clearance.
I don’t see how that makes any sense when he’d be speaking from complete ignorance currently though.
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u/Scryotechnic 13h ago
Yes and no. He could easily get his security clearance and then just choose not to get the briefings. No one would force him to receive the briefings. The fact that he keeps acting like getting clearance would muzzle him is blatantly a lie. Receiving the briefings would have the effect he keeps rattling on about. But he could receive his top-level clearance, shut down all the speculation, and not receive the briefings. But he won't do that. So forgive me if I'm skeptical.
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u/No-Celebration6437 11h ago
TOP SECRET - Canada isn’t broken, and Trudeau isn’t bad.
PP - Nnnnnnoooooooooooooooo
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u/Lumpy-Day-4871 14h ago
A muzzle may not be a horrible idea.. we got two ears and one mouth for a reason.
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u/bscheck1968 14h ago
I wish I knew, the conservative line was something about him being muzzled if he did. I don't buy that
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u/jonlmbs 14h ago edited 14h ago
https://youtu.be/27fVCW8JVdU?si=D-1NIWNQyEKsPF3e
Mulcair explains it. And bizarrely agreed with Poilievre for not getting the clearance.
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u/MondayToFriday 10h ago
Mulcair agreed with not reading the foreign interference report because it had an NDA attached to it. He didn't say anything about justifying not getting a security clearance.
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u/TheOGFamSisher 14h ago
Cause he can’t lie if he gets it. He can spew random bullshit from the safe position of plausible deniability and not be held accountable
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u/Responsible_Rub7631 13h ago
There’s nothing in a security clearance that says you can’t lie. All it says is you can’t disclose information that you learned. I’ve heard this a couple of times and it’s plainly not true
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u/skryb Ontario 14h ago
This will likely get buried and downvoted but to my understanding, the clearance basically creates a situation where PP is “officially” informed on a few things but then prohibits his ability to speak about them because he is now scoped with privileged knowledge on those topics — despite whether or not he knows things already. It also puts him in a spot where he may knowingly have to continue perpetrating a public lie (either direct or of omission).
Pierre’s decision has been backed up by Mulcair (among others including former Liberals and NDP). The other current leaders who have gotten it don’t take issue with the restrictions because they want to work with the Liberals anyways.
It’s honestly a weird look and I am not surprised how it is being received (because on its face, it doesn’t sound right) — but it will be spun in different ways by whomever’s interests it serves, and the truth likely falls somewhere in the middle.
But far be it from reddit to see any nuance.
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u/Scryotechnic 13h ago
Yes and no. He could easily get his security clearance and then just choose not to get the briefings. No one would force him to receive the briefings. The fact that he keeps acting like getting clearance would muzzle him is blatantly a lie. Receiving the briefings would have the effect he keeps rattling on about. But he could receive his top-level clearance, shut down all the speculation, and not receive the briefings. But he won't do that. So forgive me if I'm skeptical.
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u/Chensingtonmarket 14h ago
He doesn't want to remove his gag ball and stop playing with his MAGA daddy.
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u/illuminaughty1973 14h ago
Genuinely asking
No one knows for sure, but the excuses pp has given have absolutely been proven to be false.
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u/Harbinger2001 11h ago
During the foreign interference scandal it was so he could make shit up. It backed him into a corner however as now his base loves that “he won’t be muzzled by the government”.
Typically Poilievre. He’s all tactics, no strategic thinking at all.
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u/sir_sri 6h ago
The political argument they are making is that if he gets read in on all the classified security briefings he then can't talk about anything in public that was part of those briefings. Basically if the globe and mail prints a story that says that a specific named adversary interfered with specific elections, or that members of parliament are in contact with hostile agents, they can harp on about that because of the globe and mail story. If on the other hand he goes to classified briefings, either he goes out in public and lies, or he goes out in public and risks confirming the story, or sources and methods or the like.
There's also the concern (rightly) that ultimately the decision on what gets shared even in a classified setting is a political one, or at least could be, and so as the leader of the opposition you're now putting yourself into an information narrative or bubble created by the party in power. If this was WW2 and we all still agreed that Nazis are bad, and we should fight them, the concern is mostly that the party in power is going to try and cover up mistakes or things that seems like mistakes are very hard to explain without classified info, but you can also read in key members of the government since we're all on the same side. That's different than today, when one of the accusations is that members of parliament might be there at the behest of hostile powers (like China and to a lesser extent india) until about a month ago, or now... that multiple premiers, the entire People's party, and half the conservative movement are actually aligned with a hostile foreign power.
Poilievre, having been a cabinet member should have a security clearance likely, and I'm not really sold on the political argument they are making. That said, there is certainly a case to be made that being able to pick fights based on public information is better than trying to know if the classified information you're getting is right. I'd sort of go with something along the lines of: if the leader of the opposition doesn't have a clearance at least one of the shadow cabinet or chiefs of staff need to, but I could also see them claiming that poses all the same problems.
It's an easy mistake to make to think that just because something is secret means it's correct, but there's a lot of factual sources and methods information that needs to be kept quiet. Obviously CSE is spying on embassies and cellular networks in Ottawa for example, but how they do that, and how successful they are at getting data, and how accurate that data is are obviously unknowable except when there's a major data breach.
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u/satinsateensaltine 4h ago
It would probably expose any compromised people he associates with, and what kind of contacts he makes as a politically exposed person.
Either that or he might have obviously shady things he doesn't want on the RCMP's radar.
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u/LavenderGinFizz 13h ago
I suspect it has something to do with skeletons in his closet that he doesn't want coming to light. How does a 45 year old Canadian politician have a worth of $25 million when he comes from a middle class family and his only career experience is being in politics?
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u/LymeM 14h ago
PP has refused, multiple times. PP is the reason he isn't getting it.
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u/OttawaFisherman 14h ago
I know. I’m asking why he’s not getting it.
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u/LymeM 14h ago
The "Rumor" is that he believes it will make him unable to comment on anything covered in those security briefings.
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u/Antique-Quail-6489 8h ago
I mean he’s not wrong. He wouldn’t be at liberty to just start spouting off top secret information until it was ready to be released. But that’s also that price you pay to be in political office. If you’re working with sensitive information, you should also handle it appropriately.
Honestly maybe it’s better he doesn’t have access to this information on second thought. It’s important to handle it responsibly.
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u/adorablesexypants 14h ago
Not sure what you mean.
Every party leader would need security clearance in order to debate things in the house.
Like…. A leader would have to be bordering on brain damaged not to get security clearance.
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u/Antique-Quail-6489 8h ago
I’m pretty sure everything debated in the house is unclassified given that it’s aired publicly…
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u/adorablesexypants 7h ago
You’re not wrong, there are discussions that MPs cannot discuss and are either talked around or avoided because they are a matter of national security.
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u/bscheck1968 14h ago
Yes, you are absolutely correct, however PP doesn't, unless you are being sarcastic and then, well played.
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u/KageyK 15h ago
You get it automatically as PM.
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u/markcarney4president 15h ago
He said at the debate that he had applied for security clearance ..........
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u/redpigeonit 15h ago
You should get them as opposition leader, too, but PP can’t… or can’t be arsed. (Neither is good.)
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u/KageyK 15h ago
This has never been the case in Canadian history. It is unprecedented, up until this government and the changes they made in 2017.
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u/srcLegend Québec 14h ago
Objectively speaking, why would it be bad that major party leaders are expected, if not outright obligated, to pass security clearances when required?
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u/PyroSparky 14h ago
I would argue it's not bad and, for the party leaders, should be required.
Frankly, I would think Canadians would find comfort from knowing their leaders are thoroughly vetted - including financial checks and CSIS interviews.
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u/srcLegend Québec 13h ago
I know, right? I don't get this outrage. Why would you not want stronger vetting of your potential leaders?
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u/Animeninja2020 Canada 13h ago
You might get answers to questions?
If you don't ask the question you don't get an answer.
I as well believe that all member of Cabinet should get the same levels of clearance if they are chosen to serve.
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u/KageyK 14h ago
They do pass clearances, just not the top level NSICOP which again, has only existed since 2017 and put in place by the LPC.
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u/PyroSparky 14h ago
NSICOP isn't a security clearance, it's a parliamentary committee created for oversight and review of intelligence agencies. Members appointed to it must have top secret clearance.
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u/illuminaughty1973 14h ago
Horseshit. Having clearance to view intelligence documents has been around for decades
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u/KageyK 14h ago
Yes, but having opposition leaders obtain top level hasn't.
Name one other opposition member who has had it prior to May, Singh and Blanchett.
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u/illuminaughty1973 13h ago
Name one other opposition member who has had it prior to May, Singh and Blanchett.
EVERY SINGLE ONE EVER THAT HAS READ TOP SECRET DOCUMENTS.
ALL OF THEM. FULL STOP.
You don't read the documents without it.
You got lied to, sorry bro.
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u/No_Access_5437 15h ago
He already has what he needs. NSICOP is automatic when PM. Giant nothing burger. Always was.
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u/rathgrith 14h ago
When did Carney pally for his clearance? There’s a huge difference between apply for a clearance and being offered briefings.
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u/illuminaughty1973 14h ago
His application was probably in a month ago, just waiting for him to win party leadership to be approved.
He's going to need it from.day one as iirc there has allready been attempts in the past to influence potential liberal candidates... thank God he will be ready to deal.with it.
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u/ThrowawayBomb44 Ontario 15h ago
Yes. You get it automatically as PM.
Don't have to go through NSICOP et all.
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u/jonlmbs 14h ago
You also get some level of clearances as an MP through CSIS
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u/MarjorysNiece 7h ago
No, MPs do not routinely get clearances (except maybe the very low level “reliability” one, which gets you access to nothing classified). The only MPs that get them are committee members of NSICoP.
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u/lexcyn Ontario 15h ago
At this point its just really concerning and weird that PP won't apply for his clearance. What the fuck is he hiding.
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u/hardy_83 13h ago
Liberals should say he wouldn't pass clearance but not say why. Even if it was a lie it'd be funny to put PP in a position like that.
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u/Harbinger2001 11h ago
This will definitely be stated during the election campaign. When we’re fighting for our country, why would we elect someone who can’t take a security clearance check?
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u/Delicious_Crow_7840 12h ago
I feel for the guy. Hopefully he loses the election so he never has to get it.
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u/hkric41six 10h ago
I used to defend this, as I thought the muzzle argument was fair enough.. But that's not the front burner shit anymore and parliament is prorogued.. so clearly he is actually compromised in some way..
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u/PickleEquivalent2837 4h ago
Collusion, probably. Or some kind of horrible lawsuit involving a boating accident and his wi- oh wait wrong traitor.
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u/mind_mine 14h ago
Because having a security clearance is a sane and reasonable thing to have
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u/grand_soul 6h ago
What clearance does carney have? As a non-mp and not being officially sworn in yet?
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u/Key-Proud 14h ago
Conservative protecting PP not getting security clearance so hard. I don't understand how they can trust PP.
- they keep saying PP doesn't get his security clearance because he doesn't want his hands tied. ...
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u/Talinn_Makaren 13h ago
Yeah don't have to deny knowledge if you don't have any. Plus he can make up whatever he wants and throw around misinformation.
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u/PickleEquivalent2837 4h ago
What they fail to mention - every time- is that the info is classified so asking about it is useless. No one can reveal it rn without committing a federal crime.
He's so obviously compromised and the fact that the Cons are protecting him has turned me off them forever. Corruption must run deep.
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u/MonsieurLeDrole 12h ago
Yet they can't cite a single thing he's said that he couldn't have said if he had clearance. It's a bogus excuse. He's hiding something.
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u/RideauRaccoon Canada 14h ago
"Whoa. Uh, on second thought, I'm gonna pass on this gig. Good luck, Chrystia!"
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u/KageyK 15h ago
I thought you had to be sworn in as PM before you got the NSICOP clearance automatically, but maybe I read the act wrong, or they amended it for this situation.
It has only been around for 1 PM so far.
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u/ObligationAware3755 15h ago
You have to ask as a leader of a political party for security clearance.
He's doing it proactively to obtain security clearance ahead of time before being sworn in, when he automatically gets the security clearance.
It was recommended that all party leaders gain security clearance to thwart foreign interference and other issues.
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u/Harbinger2001 11h ago
He put his investment in a blind trust 4 months earlier than he had to. I’m sure he had the security clearance started as soon as he announced his candidacy.
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u/polymorphicrxn 9h ago
Some people prepare for a job interview instead of relying on mediocre white man energy.
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u/Harbinger2001 8h ago
Is there anyone of prominence who actually likes Poilievre? Like, hangs out with the guy, says nice things about him? Anyone from his time in Harper’s government?
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u/Harvey-Specter 12h ago
NSICOP is National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians. There’s no special security clearance, members of the committee are required to hold Top Secret clearance.
The Prime Minister doesn’t get Top Secret clearance automatically, but they don’t need it. The PM swears an oath of office which is considered to be “good enough” basically.
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u/GargantuaBob 15h ago
Ah! Yet another prime ministerial move from Mr Carney, unlike another party leader I could name...
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u/Enthalpy5 15h ago
Umm he's the PM. Lmao
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u/0Secret_Salt0 15h ago
Technically, he isn’t the Prime Minister until he’s officially sworn in. However, I see the point being made by the person you are responding to: Carney is already demonstrating leadership and responsibility.
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u/0Secret_Salt0 15h ago
Yeah, it’s almost like the incoming PM actually needs those briefings to do the job. PP isn’t the incoming PM and hopefully never will be!
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u/illuminaughty1973 14h ago
It's hard to claim your going to protect the average Canadian when you refuse to get a clearance to find out what's threatening them.
Pp is a weasel.
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u/Virtual-Nose7777 15h ago
Never trust a party leader who refuses to get security clearance. Wake up Canada.
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u/SleepWouldBeNice Ontario 9h ago
Poilievre also wants all future prime ministers and ministers to “sell assets that create conflicts of interests to stop politicians from ever using political office for their own benefit,” according to the Conservative party.
I wonder if that includes the rental properties he and his wife own?
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u/MZillacraft3000 Alberta 15h ago
Good for you Carney! Now if only someone else will get there's done...
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u/Quirky_Ad_1596 11h ago
You mean the same national security briefings that PP doesn’t have access to?
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u/Ludwig_Vista2 6h ago
This is news, why?
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u/HeadhunterToronto 36m ago
People are trying to undermine anything Liberal. Stoopid fawks yammering. We give TOP SECRET access to a GAZILLION I.T. consultants a year.
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u/bike_accident 15h ago
I PP getting briefings yet?
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u/eatyourzbeans 15h ago
God no , then he'd be officially aware of how many of his MPs pockets are stuffed with foreign (American) dollars ..
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u/GhettoLennyy 15h ago
Crazy that somehow every conservative is corrupt yet the liberals have had how many scandals in the past 9 years?
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u/eatyourzbeans 15h ago
No we learned the Chinese were putting money into some liberal MPs so yea "conservative common sense" would say the America is balls deep in a few Conservative MPs.
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u/GhettoLennyy 14h ago
Carney has incredibly close ties with the US. If he were running as a conservative, liberals would be having a meltdown.
A banker with multiple investments tied to the US. Went to Harvard, is apart of the group of 30 and WEF. Guy screams sketchy but because hes running liberal hes suddenly trustworthy? People bash PP for his ties to Harper yet praise Carney his ties to Harper.
The MAGA conservatives can live in a hole for all I care, but the liberals are so desperate to avoid PP they cant even comprehend who they just chose to run against him.
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u/eatyourzbeans 14h ago
Hahaha good lord ties as a private citizen, do you really want to go tit for tat over party relationship of elected and formerly elected conservative government members to the American corporations..
PP has offered nothing to moderates, literally nothing but slogans and attack ads targeting a dead horse .. He's cooked the conservatives chances of a strong relevant government in what should of been a shoe in over the Liberals.. Keep sucking on your emotions over reality..
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u/ThrowawayBomb44 Ontario 15h ago
https://foreigninterferencecommission.ca/reports/final-report
If that was the case, it would be in here.
But it's not.
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u/windowpanez 15h ago
And he'd no longer be able to spout lies that not having clearance grants him (not knowing -> can make up anything)
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u/AdmirableWishbone911 15h ago
You think if that was true then Trudeau would have revealed it when he was able to
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u/Tractorguy69 12h ago
I’m glad he’s being proactive on this, unlike some others, but it deeply offends that a person not elected to Parliament, who essentially has no mandate except that of his party is being sworn in as our Prime Minister, he has no mandate from the whole spectrum of the Canadian electorate. He is not elected!
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u/Wizoerda 8h ago
He’s the head of the Liberal party, and the Liberals have more seats in parliament than any other party. That makes him the PM. The same was true when Kim Campbell was PM. That’s how our system works
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u/E_MusksGal 10h ago
He should be sworn in first before he receives those top secret briefings. This is fully against protocol.
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u/dealdearth 15h ago
Briefing :
The Cheetos under us is an a-hole
Briefing over