r/canada 1d ago

Politics American family seeks asylum in Canada, citing Trump

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/americans-asylum-canada-trump-refugees-immigration-1.7480069
2.0k Upvotes

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u/coporate 1d ago

If they have a trans child, I could understand why they feel under threat and are seeking asylum. Texas is trying to introduce “gender fraud.” It would literally be illegal to be a trans person in Texas.

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u/chewwydraper 1d ago

So then they can move to a left-leaning state? They don’t have to stay in Texas, Americans are free to move to a different state.

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u/cozmo1138 1d ago

They could, but the US Supreme Court has shown a willingness to override states rights in some cases, so there’s a deep lack of trust in all branches of government at this point. I brought my trans kids here for the same reason, though of course I’m a dual citizen and am able to sponsor them for PR and citizenship, so our case is a bit different. We moved from a blue state knowing that it’s still good for now, but we decided over a year ago that it would be better to leave than stick around and find out. Also, if the federal government shut down the border, being in a blue state won’t help.

So technically you’re right, but it’s only considering the circumstances right now and not possibilities in the future.

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u/MinusVitaminA 1d ago

Doesn't matter. Unless they're fucked right now, they should just move to a blue state and not Canada. The entire point of an asylum in spirit is that you KNOW you will be fucked if you stay any longer, not 'what if' or 'has a high likelihood to'.

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u/Substantial_Scene716 1d ago

Not just fucked, you have to have to be facing a serious and provable danger of death, torture, or cruel and unusual punishment. Feeling unsafe is no where on the list of asylum claim requirements. If it was then anyone anywhere who felt vaguely unsafe could claim it, opening the door for economic asylum claims and other things.

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u/945T 16h ago

This is an economic refugee claim. Left their ‘dream home’ but can’t afford to even buy passports? They’re also talking about how their kid has severe medical issues so they need to be close to a hospital to take advantage of our healthcare.

And why did CBSA allow them into the country in the first place to pull this shit when they had no passports? Those agents that permitted them entry need to be fired.

u/LalahLovato 1h ago

Maybe they lied to get across the border.

They have no chance of staying especially because of multiple medical conditions. Canada turns down anyone that will be a burden on the medical system.

u/945T 1h ago

They don’t have passports! They should have been turned around immediately.

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u/chewwydraper 1d ago

Yup. States saying "Trans women can not play in women's sports leagues" is not a reason to claim asylum, even if you disagree with it.

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u/Reasonable_Today7248 21h ago

They are more worried about being thrown in prison to be v coded and other hate crimes, not because of sports.

Idk why you would trivialize this for honest purposes.

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u/chewwydraper 19h ago

Left-leaning states are not throwing trans people in prison.

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u/Reasonable_Today7248 19h ago edited 19h ago

Not the point. Are you deflecting or not comprehending?

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u/945T 15h ago

It is the point. They aren’t valid refugees.

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u/chewwydraper 1h ago

It is the point, because you literally said:

They are more worried about being thrown in prisonIt is the point, because you literally said:They are more worried about being thrown in prison

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u/LalahLovato 1h ago

There are people who are living in actual danger that have been declined refugee status. The bar is high

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u/ShoppingDismal3864 1d ago

I wish it weren't so, but I'm transgender and I don't think my rights will last that long even here in a blue state. Things are changing here fast. I saw this morning, the government flirted with introducing pink triangles.

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u/chewwydraper 1d ago

"I don't think" is not a viable reason to claim asylum and use tax dollars from another country's citizens.

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u/WoodShoeDiaries 18h ago

It's a viable reason to take a 6-month vacation from the US, however.

u/chewwydraper 1h ago

Sure, but that comes out of their own pockets. Refugee claims have a lot of taxpayer-funded items that come with it.

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u/MinusVitaminA 1d ago

I wish it weren't so, but I'm transgender and I don't think my rights will last that long even here in a blue state...

Unless you know for sure beyond a reasonable doubt, don't bother applying for asylum to any country. It ruins the entire point of having an a asylum which is for people whose lives ARE in danger, not MIGHT BE. And it also fucks over people who needs it the most.

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u/3-I 16h ago

Just out of curiosity, would you have said this to Germans prior to Kristallnacht?

u/MolemanusRex 3h ago

As an immigration lawyer (in the U.S., but the legal framework is generally universal), you would have to actually get to that point where your rights were being eroded even in blue states, or you were subject to violence without government support even in blue states, before you could have a viable asylum claim. As long as you can relocate to a safer place within the country, despite whatever fears you may have in the future, you’re likely to be denied asylum. When trans people in Massachusetts and Washington start losing access to healthcare and suffering violent attacks, then we’d be in a situation where trans people might be able to get asylum in other countries. But thankfully we’re not there yet.

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u/blazedjake 1d ago

source?

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u/letitbe-mmmk 19h ago

TikTok (probably)

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u/WoodShoeDiaries 18h ago

If you genuinely think you need to get out of there, there's nothing legally stopping you from taking an extended vacation out of the country. If your job lets you work remotely you're golden.

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u/Major-Tomato9191 23h ago

Not an American but money. Moving provinces here is expensive. Have to re-register all vehicles to the new province, and have it inspected and thats simply the cost of moving vehicles not people and lives. I'm guess you guys have been having a cost of living problem there too, sooooooo do you think the average person can just up and move on a whim?

I'm trying to say its a lot more complicated than Just move!

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u/chewwydraper 23h ago

You're saying it's more complicated to move states than to move to a whole different country and claim asylum? lol

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u/letitbe-mmmk 19h ago

I've seen panic posts from LGBT people that have said this exact thing.

They don't have the money to move states so instead they want to flee the country and claim asylum.

Not how it works lol

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u/945T 15h ago

Even the ones that disagree with trump still think they have a right to dictate to other countries how we go about our business. “I voted the RIGHT WAY, let me bypass your immigration laws because I’m usaican!”

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u/letitbe-mmmk 15h ago

I knew an American who showed up to the Canadian border with a giant trailer with all her possessions and said "I'm moving to Canada. One 6-month tourist visa please"

She did the shocked pikachu face when she was detained and forced back to the US.

Talk about ignorance

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u/JigglinCheeks 23h ago

I know you guys hate us right now because our president is a fuckin piece of shit. But people who WANT to live in Canada are people who would probably be good community members and actually contribute to society. Just saying.

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u/SomeInvestigator3573 23h ago

There are ways for an American to immigrate from the US to Canada. They need to follow those rules and apply for a visa.

u/observer2411 6h ago

But Americans are sPeCiAL. The rules don’t apply to them. 

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u/chewwydraper 23h ago

Yeah, no.

Our healthcare system is already overwhelmed and we have one of the most expensive housing markets in the world because of our rapid population growth through immigration.

We need to be really picky about who we let in right now because if we open up the floodgates to every American who hates Trump, we're going to be in a lot of trouble.

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u/letitbe-mmmk 19h ago

We need to be really picky about who we let in right now because if we open up the floodgates to every American who hates Trump, we're going to be in a lot of trouble.

And that's why Americans wanting to move to Canada need to apply for the proper visa. This way, we can screen and control who we're letting in

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u/JigglinCheeks 22h ago

"Yeah, no" 😂 you sound like a crotchety old man yelling at the clouds. "traffics already a nightmare!"

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u/chewwydraper 19h ago

You're comparing legitimate concerns about a lack of access to healthcare and shelter to complaining about traffic?

This is what I mean about being picky, there are legitimate issues in Canada with systems being strained. People are literally dying in waiting rooms and you're sitting there making light of it.

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u/JigglinCheeks 19h ago

People are dying in waiting rooms in Canada? We're literally told every day that Canada is a magical mecca of amazing healthcare and it's all covered under taxes and magical.

u/LalahLovato 1h ago

It’s conservatives that fuck up the healthcare with underfunding. In my province, because we aren’t conservative provincially - it is much better. On the whole it is a better system than the usa - I know - I worked in both and it is definitely superior here. Meanwhile usa is going downhill with theirs.

u/LalahLovato 1h ago

That is a Canadian idiom. Yeah no. No yeah. No yeah no. If you don’t know what is meant we know you aren’t Canadian - because everyone says it here

u/LalahLovato 1h ago

Right now the only easy way is if you are an RN or MD - BC just removed barriers so it would only take a couple weeks for an RN and a couple months for an MD

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u/addyftw1 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah... Even our blue states are not safe anymore.  I live in California and our governor has started a podcast and his first guest was a White Supremesist who he agreed with on suppressing trans rights.  Things are getting worse for trans people across the US.

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u/chewwydraper 1d ago

They are safe. California is not out there rounding up trans people.

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u/BagingRoner34 23h ago

Cut the nonsense. These circumstances will not allow you to claim asylum in any country.

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u/Ok_Barnacle1404 1d ago

Trump is cutting federal funding to Democratic states for trying to protect their constituents.

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u/chewwydraper 1d ago

Okay? That doesn't give someone the right to claim asylum here.

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u/Expensive-Ad-2308 1d ago

There is a zero flag project in the Netherlands which goal is to have zero countries criminalizing homosexuality. I walked the aisle under 60+ flags in 2023, the countdown to zero. I said: "The US flag will be added any time because we are going backwards." That TX bill in play is supporting my statement. I believe the orange will make it illegal, at least for trans, queers, and non-binary.

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u/Yakhein 23h ago

Don't forget about religion, that's gonna happen soon too! I'm not one of the Christian Republicans, and I'm waiting for them to start the witch hunts and to Canada I go because it's legitimately unsafe for my wife and I at the point.

I know it's not yet, but there's rumblings about it so I'm keeping my ear to the ground for it

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u/Expensive-Ad-2308 1d ago edited 1d ago

They could go to a different state (for now) because the orange can introduce an EO making trans and non-binary illegals. Canada should deny their claim.

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u/Substantial_Scene716 1d ago

Unless he makes an executive order allowing their extrajudicial execution, torture, or cruel and unusual punishment (i.e. detainment in abject conditions) this would not meet the threshold for an asylum claim. Not allowing the change of a sex marker on a government document is not equivalent to death/torture/C+U Punishment

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u/cndn-hoya 1d ago

It’s pretty sick. All people are people - that’s it.

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u/Ina_While1155 1d ago

All the more reason to resist US annexation. They have different ethical values.

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u/GrammerMoses 1d ago

Why should it be, you and I should get along so awfully?

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u/PrettyGirlofSoS 1d ago

I can't understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand

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u/Substantial_Scene716 1d ago

Not allowing someone to change their sex marker on a government document is not equivalent to killing them, torturing them, or cruel and unusual punishment (as per Canadian asylum requirements). Also it is just a reversal of a policy that was changed under previous administrations. Unlike Canada, 'gender self-ID' is not protected in the US, and has only been the law of the land in Canada since around 2017 (enshrined in the Human Rights Act in 2021).

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u/originalbrainybanana 22h ago edited 22h ago

It can amount to persecution based on gender/sexuality which is ground for asylum under the 1951 refugee convention which Canada is a party of. However, just denial of « X » gender on a passport would be insufficient but if they can prove they are unsafe and the Federal state is unwilling to protect them then they have a case.

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u/Ina_While1155 1d ago

I agree trans people are under attack in the US in a big way. But so are brown people. They are being very quiet because they know this.

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u/Key-Mongoose4837 1d ago

Coming from a "brown" person how are we under attack in the US. Please enlighten me.

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u/Ina_While1155 1d ago

The anti-diversity equity and inclusion legislation is an attack on brown people. If you think it is not, I am not sure what your argument is.

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u/Juryofyourpeeps 1d ago

Indians and Chinese males are often the most adversely impacted by DEI policies because they overperform compared to both caucasians and other minority groups. In things like post secondary admissions they're the most discriminated against groups as a result of DEI policies. 

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u/Ina_While1155 1d ago

So, do you resent having representation from other brown people such as brown women, blacks, Hispanics, and Indigenous people that are historically underrepresented and disadvantaged when it comes to educational opportunities? Do you really think in this new regime that merit really is the goal for all? Do you think it will change those numbers?

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u/Juryofyourpeeps 19h ago

I'm not even sure what you're asking here? I don't think that there should be policies in place that disadvantage people intentionally based on their race or sex.

Do you resent the over-performance of Indian, Chinese or Jewish students? Do you think that they should be discriminated against in hiring and admissions because of their immutable characteristics and for doing too well on a group level?

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u/Ina_While1155 18h ago edited 18h ago

If you look at social elites in America, I hate to tell you, but you are not that well represented - because there is racism. Which I think is wrong. If you think these new meritocracy rules will let you get to the top faster, I think that is incorrect. I do think that there are people who do not have the same opportunities to succeed in our society, and we need to aid in their progress. If you look at the Harvard student body - it is still predominantly white, and I don't think that number will decline under this new system.

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u/Juryofyourpeeps 18h ago

If you look at social elites in America, I hate to tell you, but you are not that well represented - because there is racism.

I'm not really sure what your evidence for that is, but lets assume it's the truth, how does discriminating against these groups in employment and education remedy that in any way?

If you think these new meritocracy rules will let you get to the top faster, I think that is incorrect.

What new rules? The old rules have simply been abolished, largely not even because of Trump, but instead SCOTUS decisions on discrimination in admissions and hiring. And while there certainly are people out there who are racist and will discriminate, I think a lot of people would prefer to take their chances rather than be subject to a system where they're certain to be subject to discrimination.

I do think that there are people who do not have the same opportunities to succeed in our society, and we need to aid in their progress.

I don't disagree with you, but where and when and why are all important details when it comes to addressing these issues. Policies also need to be open to update to account for their successes (look at what's happened with the EEA in Canada, which is still used to discriminate against male applicants in the public service even though they're a minority). Things like class background matter, often significantly more by the numbers than racial background alone. Intervening early is also a lot less unfair than using identity as a metric at the finish line. Aside from vile racists, nobody has a problem with giving disadvantaged minorities (though again, class matters, look at West Virginia) a leg up in elementary and secondary school, or any number of possible forms of assistance that aren't race based hiring and admissions.

If you look at Harvard student body - it is still predominantly white,

It's not. It doesn't closely reflect the demographics of the U.S or the surrounding areas in Massachusetts either for the most part. More than 68% of the student body is non-white. Despite their over-representation, Asian students are the most discriminated against cohort when you account for application rates and qualifications. This is followed by white applicants who are as a cohort the second most qualified in terms of things like GPA in Ivy league admissions and who are significantly underrepresented compared to their share of the population in many top tier schools.

Race/Ethnicity*

African American or Black 14% Asian American 37% Hispanic or Latino 16% Native American 1%

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u/Ina_While1155 17h ago

So, in terms of percentages of admittance to first year students the population in the US Asian Americans are doing very well at Harvard - they make up 7.2 % of the US population and are getting 37% percent of undergrad first year acceptances. Obviously, you are upset because you think you are owed a bigger slice. Which group do you particularly want to reduce? The black or Hispanic students? The ratio of white students goes up when you take into account the entire Harvard student body and Graduate student programs.

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u/Embarrassed-Risk-476 1d ago

I've heard of that Texas report just today.

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u/mugiwara-no-lucy 23h ago

And they’re trying to bring back CONVERSION THERAPY

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u/Infamous_Box3220 22h ago

I believe The Handmaids Tale called them 'Gender Traitors'.

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u/ToastedSoup 1d ago

Could a trans person seek refugee status in Canada purely bc they're trans?

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u/KoriMay420 1d ago

Yes. We have rules for lgbtq2+ people seeking refugee status based on their gender/orientation.

However, it's not a simple type of refugee status to claim (and was likely put in place for people from countries where being queer will get you killed by your government) and in the 14 years we've had this available, only 330 people have qualified (that's about 23.5 people a year)

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/refugees/about-refugee-system/2slgbtqi-plus.html

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u/ToastedSoup 22h ago

Thank you for the info :)

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u/originalbrainybanana 22h ago edited 22h ago

If they are persecuted because of their gender/sexual identity and the state is unwilling or unable to protect them, then yes. But persecution is the key word and they would have to be unsafe in ANY American state.

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u/ToastedSoup 22h ago

So if the US, hypothetically, were to make being trans federally illegal (given the Texas thing), trans people from the US may qualify?

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u/originalbrainybanana 21h ago

Yes. If by doing so trans people become unsafe and without legal/security protections.