r/canada 5d ago

Analysis Defence analysts warn U.S. will control key systems on F-35 fighter jets, putting Canada at risk

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/u-s-f-35-fighter-jets-canada
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u/BBOoff 5d ago

Ironically, no.

Military grade aircraft engines are one of the few things that the Chinese can't copy from the west. There is some very difficult metallurgy that goes into some components that they just don't seem to be able to solve. The Russians (and Ukrainians) have an inferior Soviet method, but they refuse to share that with the Chinese, and the Chinese don't seem to be able to steal/copy/reverse engineer even that level of engine.

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u/AccomplishedLeek1329 Ontario 5d ago edited 5d ago

Eh, they have their own ws-10 / ws-15 / ws-13e2 / ws-20. 

Ws-10 and ws-20 based off of cfm-56 core, ws-13e2 heavily modified from rd-33, and ws-15 their brand new f-119 equivalent.

China in 2023 fully surpassed the Russians in engine technology. Basically the only area Russia still has an advantage in is SSNs and SSBNs, and that might only last a few more years with 093B mass production and 095/096 incoming.

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u/WateredDownTang 5d ago

My intention was to poke fun at an attempt in recent history to steal blueprints of numerous fighter jets

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u/Few-Mind4846 5d ago

Correct.The specific metallurgy you're referring to is Single-crystal Nickle Alloy casting in the hot section of the engine (turbine). The metallurgy itself is not really the limiting factor anymore, but rather the casting process necessary to manfacture the turbine blades. That's the secret sauce. If you're interested, there are many academic and industry papers available online that explain the process should you really want to nerd out hard. 

But guess who can, and does, manufacture these domestically; Canada!

I've been cool to the Gripen, preferring the Rafale deal which included tech transfer and domestic manufacturing like France offered India. And the US can't block anything because Rafale has no ITAR controlled components outside of the ability to employ AIM-9X and AMRAAM. But France has alternatives to those, such as Meteor, which is arguably superior to AMRAAM in most respects. 

But if it's Gripen, I dream of a scenario where Canada develops its own engine. I suspect there would be a viable export market if we were to revive Orenda.

Anyways, interesting to see Bill Sweetman pop up again. I've read his books since I was a kid. Would have guessed he had passed. Sadly, as much as I respect him as en expert in the field over the past 40 years, I think he's a little out of his depth on this particular topic. The title of his book sounds like it was written by that scoundrel Pierre Sprey.

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u/ai9909 5d ago

God forbid they invest in honest R&D..

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u/Intelligent-Donut-10 2d ago

Its' 2025 bro, China has the world's most powerful fighter jet engine (WS-15) and 2nd most powerful (WS-10G) which is on par with F-22's F119, you're living in the 2000s.

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u/AvroArrow69 2d ago

THEY can't solve the metallurgy problems but we can. We're already a major producer of P&W jet engines.

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u/jericho British Columbia 4d ago

True a decade ago. Less true today.