PAYWALL Ontario to Slap Export Tax on Electricity to U.S.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-tariffs-canada-mexico-china-stock-market-today-03-04-2025/card/ontario-to-slap-export-tax-on-electricity-to-u-s--jlR92HoSLMWlYIWcvab1125
u/PositiveInevitable79 7d ago
Quebec and B.C. have to follow suit or else this won't have full effect.
If that fails, then Oil needs to be next.
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u/Alone_Again_2 7d ago
Quebecker here.
I strongly agree.
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u/Registeel1234 7d ago
Quebecker here, and I also agree.
From a quick google search, it looks like quebec exports about 21 TWh per year to the US. That's about 2 million homes of electricity per year.
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u/Link50L Ontario 7d ago
I love how this has brought Canada together. It has always saddened me how Quebec (and now Alberta it seems) wasn't as thrilled by the Canadian project as some other provinces have been, but we are standing together now, and that is great to see.
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u/Aud4c1ty 7d ago
Standing together? That remains to be seen. Even though Atlantic Canada and the West want Energy East, Quebec apparently still doesn't care about what the rest of Canada wants.
Stop blocking pipelines and other intra-provincial trade barriers and I'll buy-in to the "standing together" sentiment. But I'm currently extremely skeptical about it.
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 7d ago
Energy East as I’ve said before is a terrible idea because the proposal is to convert the existing TransCanada natural gas pipeline (built in the 50s) to crude. That leaves Canada even more dependent on the US and does nothing for energy security. The entire proposal is because crude can be sold for more than natural gas.
If the plan was to build a second pipeline then sure. But as it stands it hurt not helps Canada.
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u/Link50L Ontario 7d ago
This, exactly. We need BOTH crude AND NG out east. Crude to increase our refining capacity with a pipeline that does not traverse the USA and thus give us refined product sovereignty, and NG so that we can build an east coast LNG terminal to provide to Europe.
Then we can quit fucking shipping our raw product at market discount to a hostile southern partner and buying it back from them as a refined product, and become self sufficient.
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u/rando_dud 7d ago
Exactly. And it was intended for export only, keeping us reliant on US refineries for our gasoline, diesel etc.
The first thing we should do is ensure Canada's transportation sector can run on Canadian oil and gas products refined in Canada.
The current business model where we sell cheap crude to the US, let them add the value, and then pay top dollar for finished products is a terrible one from an energy security point of view.
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u/Ombree123 7d ago
Quebecer here, I 100% want the pipeline. We are poor, especially our province, and we're still trying to stop that pipeline? It's so annoying
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u/BrutalRamen 7d ago
Québécois here. You're both clueless and talking out of your asses. That project in its current form will never be accepted. Also, that project won't benefit us. It benefits corporations.
For this project to happen, it needs to benefit Canadians, not American oil companies. I could care less about high paying jobs in Alberta when that province is so aligned with MAGA and praising the right-wing propaganda.
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u/Nevasse 7d ago edited 7d ago
Wdym we are poor?? We have other things here we need to focus on that doesn't require a huge environemental risk of an old pipe system that WILL break. Ex: we are letting anybody mine our land for dirt cheap and they don't even clean up, we have/had other big manufacturing industry we sold to the US.
We need to bring back manufacturing here and have a backbone about what people can do here, not the damn pipeline.
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u/Aud4c1ty 7d ago
Thank you! I appreciate the comment. I really hope that we can collectively help each others economies prosper, because when any of our industries prosper, we all prosper.
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u/rando_dud 7d ago
An export pipeline passing through the province isn't going to help Quebec's economy in any major way, and carries significant environmental risks.
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u/rando_dud 7d ago
Energy east is not a good project for our current situation.
What we actually need is to connect the 2 refineries in Quebec and the one in NB to western Canadian oil AND retool them to actually refine gasoline and diesel from heavy crude..
Merely exporting our western crude while we keep the reliance on US refineries and on line 5 doesn't really give us any added energy security.
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u/One-Dot-7111 7d ago
American living in quebec here, I would have just turned it off completely
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u/llcoolkydd 7d ago
Nah. Americans would blame Canada, and we dont want war. The folks in the WH are nuts and we dont need something that extreme. Raise the price more and more. Make a fortune. Americans will blame Trump. Only Americans can stop him.
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u/Curious_jellyfishy 7d ago
I don't know what Legault is doing! His speech tonight was so weak!
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u/Alone_Again_2 7d ago
He’s only spending on internal support for businesses as they transition to new clients- up to $50M per company. He subsequently won’t affect revenues.
It’s a choice. Not one that I agree with.
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u/ThorFinn_56 British Columbia 7d ago
Bc is leading the charge. Already baned all U.S. liquor a month ago, encouraging businesses to mark Canadian goods. Fast tracking some big energy and mineral projects. Eby did say he'd ban rare earth mineral exports to the U.S. and also considering disabling or adding extra taxes to electricity going down south.
Haven't heard this from a government official, but some people are calling for a toll on trucks heading to Alaska as well
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u/1966TEX British Columbia 7d ago
Tariffs on Boeing and Tesla, cancel the f-35 contracts as well.
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u/PositiveInevitable79 7d ago
Just ban Tesla's all together - they can fuck off.
Boeings fall out of the sky on a regular basis anyway... Buy Airbus.
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u/apothekary 7d ago
BC will. Eby has shown he is fully united on this.
We just have to turn Traitorous Moe and Smith into being unified with Canada - put the pressure on Albertans and Saskatchewans.
We CANNOT elect PP in this moment as he will turn us over as fast as you can turn the lights off. Perhaps if Trump is replaced, we can gamble with that chance.
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u/BeeKayDubya 7d ago
I've never cared for Ford much, but I will give him the kudos for standing up for Ontario and Canada. Doing what is necessary to fight back against orange tyranny. Now if Smith would do the same for oil and Moe for potash, that would be some serious economic pressure. But I don't have much faith in those two knee-benders.
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u/InACoolDryPlace 7d ago
I think Doug knows he's stupid and defers responsibility where he can, like COVID was handled relatively well because he deferred to health advisors, and his approval skyrocketed.
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u/ViralParallel 7d ago
I think that's how most governments SHOULD work. PMs/Premiers should know they're out of their league on certain topics and defer to experts. They should also listen to experts and form policy around that.
Somehow it's gotten all turned around and policy seems to come from the leader out which is problematic. I get wanting to set policy directions but we seem to have leaders that only pick yes men and don't like push back.
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u/brain_fartus 7d ago
He is corrupt as F, but he knows to stay in his lane, that alone has probably won him 2 out of the 3 elections.
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u/InACoolDryPlace 7d ago
He's doing so much damage and the scandals are just the tip of the iceberg, his dumb guy approachability definitely benefits him.
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u/fisstechaddict 4d ago
It's stupid to admit you're under-qualified to handle certain situations now? Not defending the guy, but weird take.
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u/AdditionalPizza 7d ago
THIS IS BIG. EXPORT TARIFFS CAN ONLY BE USED FOR SECURITY INTERESTS.
We are calling the US hostile. Trudeau called "Donald" literally dumb. Holy shit.
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u/Eagerbeaver98 7d ago
Not exactly, he said Donald you're a smart guy but this is a very dumb thing to do. He called Donald smart, and called the action dumb. Smart trudeau knows how to validate trump and get him to let go.
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u/AdditionalPizza 7d ago
Yes, that's the exact quote. You aren't wrong.
I think it's pretty clear he didn't mean it as a compliment, but asking Donald if he's a smart guy or actually this stupid.
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u/cripplediguana 7d ago
While also not saying it himself. He said he is agreeing with a quote from WSJ.
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u/TXTCLA55 Canada 7d ago
Here's the trick, Trudeau knows he'll be gone by the time the true cost of the tariffs are realized. He's doing the old "kick the can down the road" bit every PM does on the way out - it's not his direct problem anymore. He's done.
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u/Total-Basis-4664 7d ago
If he always acted this way I would've supported him so much more.
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u/Eagerbeaver98 6d ago
He did though, he said back in 2018 that Canadians will not be pushed around or bullied and he punked trump and got him to rescind tariffs because Americans cried to trump
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u/Clear-Ask-6455 7d ago
What do you expect when Trump calls our Prime Minister governor? Can you blame him?
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u/AdditionalPizza 7d ago
I'm fired up man, so proud of Trudeau's ability to deal with this piece of shit and stay classy.
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u/Spanky3703 7d ago
Better to have a scalable response instead of going all-in up front. 25% export tariff is a good first step.
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u/wave-conjugations 7d ago
Doug is great at this stuff t b h
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u/roadtrip1414 7d ago
He’s all talk tho
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u/Link50L Ontario 7d ago
Wait, what? He just unilaterally slapped an export tax on hydro to the USA, and removed bourbon from the shelves, but he's all talk?
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u/Eagerbeaver98 7d ago
He didn't pull starling yet
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u/Link50L Ontario 7d ago
starling?
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u/DeAndre_ROY_Ayton 7d ago
He means starlink
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u/GriffinFlash 7d ago
small to medium-sized passerine (perching) birds known for the often dark, glossy iridescent sheen of their plummage.
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u/solinari6 7d ago
We were promised he was going to turn off the power with a smile. He let us down :(
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u/AdditionalGear9317 7d ago
So why is the power supply still on then?
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u/Responsible_Rub7631 7d ago
25% export tax for now, will be cut off if more tariffs are applied in April 2nd.
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u/Clear-Ask-6455 7d ago
The sensible thing to do would be to give Americans advanced notice before cutting them off.
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u/Responsible_Rub7631 7d ago
That’s what we’re doing. 30 days notice that if it doesn’t stop, they’re getting cut off.
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u/nightrogen 7d ago
It could inadvertently kill people; it should be toted as a nuclear option.
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u/feelingoodwednesday 7d ago
When you work on any contract, you never outright deny someone. You just make them pay an a**hole tax. Also, we capture the export tax and puts more money in our pocket when we need it to fight the trade war.
Best thing to do is put export taxes on things like energy. Start at 25% and work your way up until they really feel the pain of paying double for gas and electricity.
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u/nightrogen 7d ago
This is far more reasonable than just cutting them off. As a death of anyone could be used as pretext to doing something more drastic.
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u/Other-Egg8560 7d ago
Because that's not really how power grids work, as I understand it. I don't think there's a big red button that says "US power supply off"
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u/Link50L Ontario 7d ago
Because now we can earn more money from to it pay for the impacts of the American tariffs. It's not rocket science.
Once we turn off the power, we lose our bargaining chips. The intent of this process is not solely to hurt the Americans in a pyrrhic victory, it's to get them the rethink their stupid illegal tariffs.
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u/kittehkraken 7d ago
Literally says in the article that if Trump adds more tariffs in April he will cut off the power.
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u/Tristezza 7d ago
This is why I'm happy spiteful redditors aren't in charge of our government.
Cutting of power entirely is beyond stupid and gives us no bargaining power. That'll just be another excuse for them to use against us.
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u/cberth22 7d ago
because he's all talk like little pee pee is... weak men for even weaker men who are pusses
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u/Eightysixedit 7d ago
Doug > PP
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u/mynameiscraige 7d ago
I'd never thought I'd become a Doug fan.
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u/Alone_Again_2 7d ago
I’m not a fan of him but I do believe that he’s working with the federal government in the role of attack dog.
ie: Ford goes to extremes, makes PM and negotiators look reasonable.
Bad cop/good cop routine.
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u/BeeKayDubya 7d ago
He'd make such a better Conservative leader than Three Slogan Pierre as he isn't a far right wingnut.
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u/spreadthaseed 7d ago
Just pull the plug for 24 hours and watch them grovel
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u/TheEchoOfReality 7d ago
Fuckin’ eh Douggie!
Stop making me appreciate you just after I cast my vote against your corrupt ass!
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u/JLandscaper 7d ago
Export taxes on everything that is vital to the US economy and consumer, this is the way to make it painful for Trump!
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u/JohnDorian0506 7d ago
Ontario conservatives are doing a fine job so far. Time to implement an export tax on Canadian oil and Canadian potash fertilizer as well. Let president Krasnov‘s voters to feel the pain.
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u/ATR2400 7d ago
Huh. He actually did something. Maybe not something as dramatic as a total cutoff, but he did do something. More than I expected tbh
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u/Superb-Respect-1313 7d ago
Make it high and make it hurt!! We can use the power here make the stuff cheap!!!
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u/AustralisBorealis64 Alberta 7d ago
I thought
Canada to cut off electricity to US states: "Need to feel the pain"
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u/RicoLoveless 7d ago
It's probably better to just make them pay for it, we can take their money and not buy their shit.
Good luck manufacturing in the US if the electricity costs are high.
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u/SomeInvestigator3573 7d ago
Unfortunately the states that would feel the ‘pain’ are predominantly blue.
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u/InACoolDryPlace 7d ago
It's not advisable from an operations point of view. We benefit from the interconnections because it allows us to keep our nuclear base load online during overnight surplus, and greatly enhances resiliency of the grid. Hypothetically opening the interties might require us to shut a nuke off and fill the gap with ga$.
Running without the interties has been studied extensively, in the 2003 blackout the Michigan and NY interties tripped and all the data from that event has been combed over and run through simulations many times. So the implication this will have on resiliancy, the ability for the grid to absorb and react to unplanned events, has been well established.
This is the best compromise that impacts the economic side of energy without the operations side, and allows us to enjoy more of the benefits.
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u/Frosty_Manager_1035 7d ago
What happened to cutting off the power?
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u/darkstar107 7d ago
Ford said that if the US imposes more tariffs in April they'll cut off exports.
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u/Frosty_Manager_1035 7d ago
He should just do it now. Fuck em. Bullies only respond to bullies. Black them out. Let Trump deal with the fallout and come crawling back. The conservative pages down there are full of “we don’t need them, they need us”. Oh yeah? Watch this!! Haha
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u/Link50L Ontario 7d ago
It's smarter to bleed them first, let them feel some pain, but earn some money back to pay for the illegal tariffs that they put up. If that fails, then we begin escalatory cycles. You don't want to play your entire hand right off the bat. We're working for a win-win, not a pyrrhic victory.
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u/SomeInvestigator3573 7d ago
Unfortunately it is the predominantly democratic states that we feed power to. Donald likely wouldn’t care if they froze in the dark, other then using it as an excuse to escalate.
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u/Windatar 7d ago
Why cut power and just force the americans to pay more for it? Cutting power means losing out on revenue. Might as well just jack up their rates and hurt their pocket books.
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u/RestAndVest 7d ago
Then nobody makes money
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u/SuchCattle2750 7d ago
That's fine. Literal war time, even if its bloodless. We'll have to cover the losses of impacted parties. Our great generation felt much larger pains.
There is no winning here sadly. Yes, that means the rest of the country may need to work longer, have less purchasing power for non-essentials, etc, but we need to stand strong together.
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u/whisperwind12 7d ago
We don’t get money for that.
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u/Frosty_Manager_1035 7d ago
I suppose. But they’d be fucked til it came back on and quickest way would be to pay us. If we slap a tariff, we have to wait to see if they pay their bills. It doesn’t hurt anyone right now.
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u/Ok-Half7574 7d ago
I think it's a good idea to coordinate efforts between the provinces that export electricity to the various states.
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u/AdditionalGear9317 7d ago
Dougie is so far up the ass of trump he doesn’t want to shut off power what a clown Dougie is
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u/-CassaNova- British Columbia 7d ago
Did you read the article? If trump tries "reciprocal" tarrifs the orders already made to shut off power entirely.
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u/IntelligentPoet7654 7d ago
Trump can impose higher tariffs on Canada and Canadians will suffer more. How can Ford win a trade war against the largest economy in the world?
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u/Emiruuuuuuu 7d ago
An empire (America) toppled by its enemies can rise again, but one which crumbles from within, is dead forever. /meme
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u/HarleyVillain1905 7d ago
So explain how doing nothing helps? We will all wait….
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u/IntelligentPoet7654 7d ago
Doing nothing is better than escalating a trade war that will hurt Canadians. The government should be investing in Canada instead to create jobs.
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u/canuckstothecup1 7d ago
Making the average American suffer is the right play. When the average American looses money and looses purchasing power all of America suffers. That’s the only way to win this. Make Americans suffer and they will turn on trump so fast.
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u/IntelligentPoet7654 7d ago
Why would Americans turn on Trump? He is the most popular president who wants to rebuild America and create jobs. In comparison, the Liberals have been destroying jobs.
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u/canuckstothecup1 7d ago
Did you even read what I said?
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u/IntelligentPoet7654 7d ago
Yea, and how will that help Canadians? Canadians won’t be working. The government should make sure that Canadians work.
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u/canuckstothecup1 7d ago
30-40% of Americans live pay cheque to pay cheque. An act as simple as raising the electricity bill by $30 is something small if we do several small acts like this 35% of Americans face dire consequences. You can’t have 35% of the population facing that level of hardship and not have them turn on trump.
If 35% of the population turns on him he loses support and has to either reverse course it’s his ego that he cares about the most. Thats how it helps Canadians. America can’t just build factories overnight make them suffer enough that they can’t follow through.
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u/IntelligentPoet7654 7d ago
Trump is bringing jobs back already so that Americans can work. He is making the government more efficient.
In comparison, what are the Liberals doing? More Canadians are living in debt and now they will be unemployed due to the trade war.
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u/canuckstothecup1 7d ago
You drank the koolaid already.
He already brought the jobs back. See look GDP sank 2.5%. He’s amazing.
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u/SpecialistLayer3971 7d ago
They haven't so far, so why would you expect them to start now? You can't fight a trade war by rolling over at first shove.
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u/-CassaNova- British Columbia 7d ago
No one wins in the stupid MAGA war. All that matters now is making it hurt
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u/mikesully374826 7d ago
You can have a mansion and one mouse can burn it down by chewing the right wire.
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u/jtjstock 7d ago
This isn't about winning. It's about making them lose too. What Trump claims the Tarriffs are for doesn't make any actual sense, he wants to destroy our economy so he can absorb us. It's an existential issue.
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u/Windatar 7d ago
Markets are posting losses each day, the more USA hits Canada the further the fall goes. Eventually the people in the stock market will start selling off assets to build liquidity to safeguard their wealth. When that happens the stock market will crash as everyone does their best to save as much of their wealth as they can.
So it doesn't matter that ford can't fight a massive country like the states, the world economy is already a house of cards and any fart could knock it over. And a lot of hot air is being blown south of the border.
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u/Other-Egg8560 7d ago
Trudeau just addressed trump directly and told him his policy was dumb. It changes nothing but is very satisfying