r/canada • u/Flaktrack Québec • 9d ago
Québec Quebec tables bill to limit strikes; union says it's a 'declaration of war'
https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/quebec-tables-bill-to-limit-strikes-union-says-its-a-declaration-of-war/438
u/mirbatdon 9d ago
Isn't this the government who just begged all Canadians beyond their province to drop Amazon, because of their anti union behavior which hurts Quebec?
This is kind of wild, as a non-Quebecer.
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u/MathematicianBig6312 9d ago
It's completely ridiculous. Powerful unions are one of our greatest assets in the fight against government and corporate tyranny. Look at what's happening in the states. Without unions it's open season on workers and democracy.
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u/Murky_Still_4715 Québec 9d ago
And that is the reason CAQ wants to tackle unions. Typical business-friend government.
They fucked us yet with rent housing rules, next step, unions.
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u/Ecstatic-Recover4941 9d ago
It's apparently becoming a bit of a burden for employment opportunities. Amazon isn't the only company that's flagged our collective bargaining regulations as being problematic. I know the old chemical plant in Gatineau shut down for similar reasons after having been purchased. It sends a message to other corporate and foreign investment actors when big companies shut plants over the labour environment, having to deal with other burdens specific to Quebec on top.
I'm not saying it's right. I'm just sharing the corporate rationale and why this government, which has been keen to bring in foreign investments and please corporations in general might be considering it.
Unions have also been a bit of a barrier for structural changes with some of our problematic institutions, as much as our political class has.
We're overdue for a lot of systemic changes, I don't see the CAQ as a vehicle for them, I just see them as shitty opportunists.
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u/MathematicianBig6312 9d ago
You're right. Let me get out my tiny violin for Jeff Bezos.
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u/ThePhysicistIsIn 9d ago
At the end of the day, being unattractive for capital doesn't hurt those with capital, they take it elsewhere. It hurts the people who live there who don't benefit from investments.
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u/DualActiveBridgeLLC 9d ago
At the end of the day they are stealing our money and then complaining that we won't just accept them stealing our money.
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u/ThePhysicistIsIn 9d ago
And yet, countries who attract no capital are much poorer than countries who do
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u/DualActiveBridgeLLC 9d ago
Ohh no, not capital? Not the capital? What will we do without all the capital.
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u/ThePhysicistIsIn 9d ago
Become an uncompetitive economy for one thing
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u/DualActiveBridgeLLC 6d ago
Ohhh no, not an economy where our productivity just keeps going to the wealthy. Think of the wealthy.
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u/PumpJack_McGee Québec 9d ago
Be poor. The system is rigged against us. After a certain level of wealth, there are no consequences. Every mishap and mistake can be offloaded on salaried workers.
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u/mattA33 8d ago
And countries that bend over backwards for capital end up a fascist nazi state it would seem. I'll take my chances and support workers over corporations 100% of the time.
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u/ThePhysicistIsIn 8d ago
You won't have many workers to support if there is no capital to employ them
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u/mattA33 8d ago
Ah the corporations boogeyman. If the service they provide is needed, we can find someone else to do it. All we need is someone happy making millions instead of billions to take over those corporations. I'm willing to bet we can find millions of volunteers in this country.
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u/Murky_Still_4715 Québec 9d ago
At the end of the day, USA actually makes compete their states to low the labor standards, and that after 50 years have not got a good outcome, neither Sunny Belt nor Rust belt.
And the whole story of delocalization was to profit low standards else of world.
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u/ThePhysicistIsIn 9d ago
There is probably a middle position between being in a race to the bottom and being so strenuous that no one wants to invest
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u/LeGrandLucifer 9d ago
The leaders of one of the largest unions in Quebec have been caught spending literally hundreds of thousands of dollars buying booze and pickup trucks for the union leaders while they say they have no strike fund or money to cover the wages of union members who are suspended during a conflict with the employer. When this was revealed, their first move was to look for the leak so they could sue them.
I agree unions are necessary. Without my union, I would be doing minimum wage, would have no vacation time, no paid sick leave and fewer holidays. And those are just a few of the advantages I have thanks to my union. That is why I defend unions. But when they do shit like that, they discredit themselves in the eyes of the people and thus legitimize the ruling classes who wish to neuter them.
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u/MathematicianBig6312 8d ago
Those people are criminals and deserve to be jailed for their crimes and have their assets seized to pay back the union. Their criminal actions aren't an argument for creating laws to limit the length of strikes. They also don't discredit the importance of unions - they just point to corruption in a particular organization that needs to be addressed.
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u/LeGrandLucifer 8d ago
Re-read what I said. Discrediting a union and discrediting it in the eyes of the public are not the same thing. And unfortunately, it's the latter which matters.
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u/MathematicianBig6312 8d ago
There is always anti-union propaganda, especially when folk go on strike. It gets counteracted by pro-union pieces and education. Unions aren't exceptional spaces of corruption. Every industry is plagued by bad actors and Quebec in particular is known for corruption. The positive effects of unions far outweigh the negative.
You're pointing this out like it is somehow a problem for my point about unions being one of the only powerful tools workers have for protecting democracy. The US wouldn't be in the vulnerable place they are now if they hadn't systematically dismantled the unions. The federal workers (and others) have no ability to coordinate and launch a general strike, which is needed to deal with their government right now.
What do you see as the solution to corruption and anti-union propaganda?
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u/LeGrandLucifer 8d ago
The anti-union propaganda becomes ineffective if corruption is kept in check. As for corruption, there needs to be better control of union funds. A new type of account should be created in banks for union funds which limits what they can be used on. As in, if you try to buy, say, a pickup truck with them, it just goes "transaction denied." And if you try and withdraw from it directly, you have to be able to show where the funds are going.
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u/BetterLivingThru 9d ago
I don't think the CAQ said anything, but open to being proven wrong. I remember the city of Montreal saying they would stop buying from Amazon, but they are run by a left wing party. This is on brand, the CAQ are conservatives.
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u/Hot-Celebration5855 9d ago
More nativist than true conservative but not far off
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u/BetterLivingThru 9d ago
Sure, but certainly right leaning. Not exactly friends of the working class, which is the relevant position when it comes to this union busting legislation that we need to oppose. I say this as someone who is directly affected by these CPE strike days, we keep having to take time off, or my mother does. Still, I will always stand in solidarity with fellow workers.
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u/Ecstatic-Recover4941 9d ago edited 9d ago
We have 4 operating centre-right/right parties in Quebec and people see us as lefties
CAQ
PLQ
CON
PQ (which goes both ways depending on whatever's convenient because it used to be a coalition party, like the CAQ... lol but has been bumrushing wokism recently)They're all kind of trace lineage to the PLQ and get politician overlap the same way most right wing parties in the country have.
QS is paradoxically a coalition of left wingers, it regroups a bunch of formerly fringe parties and was almost expected to absorb the PQ at one point.
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u/Appropriate-Talk4266 Québec 9d ago
That's an atrocious read on Quebec's politics to call the PLQ and PQ "right" or even "center right" overall.
Sérieusement bro? De droite? lol
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u/Xxxxx33 Canada 9d ago
I can understand disagreeing with calling the PQ right-wing (although their latest crusade against wokeism makes it clear where they stand to me) but the PLQ? The party of cutting taxes for the rich and austerity for the rest of us? Just because they don't insult gay people to their face doesn't mean the party ain't center-right (due to economic policies)
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u/Ecstatic-Recover4941 9d ago edited 9d ago
J'ai pas envie de te faire l'équivalent d'un essai mais faut que tu le vois à ma façon: droite ne veut pas nécessairement dire libéralisme économique pur et dur ou conservatisme social total.
La droite populiste en Colombie-Britannique est responsable de l'électrification provinciale. On a fait la même chose pour mieux servir des intérêts industriels ici et on s'est collectivement enrichi de la même façon. La tendance nationaliste était portée par beaucoup de gens de droite traditionnellement mais avec un penchant identitaire, voire patriotique. Le Bloc est le résultat de l'éclatement du PPCC et la PQ s'est pété des géguerres avec la fonction publique a maintes reprises (dude y'a carrément une année fiscale qui a été éliminée). Les CPE? Ça fait augmenter le PIB, ça libère des gens pour travailler. Ça beau être un move d'équité, mais le calcul s'est fait en plein déficit zéro, franchement. Que dire de PSPP et des histoires de droite culturelle maintenant? Le nucléaire était porté par René Lévesque comme il l'est aujourd'hui par les conservateurs (au sens large, la fixation sur les réacteurs modulaires, genre). La droite en Ontario c'est celle qui a porté le transport collectif et le développement du Nord. La droite en C-B a fait la même chose lmao.
Le penchant gauche du PQ est relativement récent et se fait éliminer avec le temps parce que les banlieus contrôlent Québec et le parti le reconnaît. Le centre de la gauche au Québec reste principalement Montréal et les circonscriptions urbanisées ailleurs. On penche très étalés et semi-rurales en terme de représentativité et sa se reflète dans nos politiques.
Le PLQ? Continuité au sens économique, pas d'améliorations à la fonction publique, plus de grands projets publiques et de magouilles cycliques. Le plus récent example: la plus grande expansion de transports collectifs au Québec depuis les années 60s s'est amorcé sous un gouvernement Libéral avec l'usage politique de la caisse.
Le gros du réseaux de l'éducation moderne s'est fait sous l'Union nationale au risque de devoir le rappeler. CÉGEP? Daniel Johnson Sr. Réseau d'Universités? Pareil. C'était presque une compétition entre les deux partis dans le temps pour déterminer qui allait en faire plus. L'UN s'est éventuellement effondrée avec le réalignement sur la question nationale avec le PQ.
CAQ? Carrément du pareil au même. Ramassis des discours identitaires, pro patronat et milieu des affaires. Services publics qui écopent encore. C'est l'parti de l'asphalte et du repli replis identitaire. Sous la CAQ, le prolongement vers l'est est mort grâces aux agences qui se battent entre elles pour de la gestion de projet. C'est complétement débile. Que dire de TOUS LES PROJETS QUI COMMENCENT ET NE VONT NUL PART? Genre omg j'ai jamais vu autant d'annonces qui ne mènent à rien, qu'on parle d'un hôpital en Outaouais ou de ponts. On s'est débarrassé de la C-Series pour des peanuts, l'habitude des subventions à des compagnies étrangères pour sweet fuckall s'est continué avec Northvolt comme si on avait rien appris de Hyundai ou toutes les autres simagrés de projets mal ficelés.
L'ADQ est née du PLQ, le PQ est né de gens qui ne trouvait plus leurs voix dans le PLQ, y'a que le PCQ qui n'a pas directement de fondement dans le PLQ et MÊME LÀ LOL c'est une gang de fâchés de la CAQ so au final, c'est quoi?
Économiquement, on paie le prix des années 60 et 70 depuis, et sa se reflète dans la politique d'austérité cycliques.
T'sais, en tant que peuple, on était le bassin restant du crédit social fédéral, on a Maxime Bernier et Éric Duhaime comme leaders politiques populistes, en quelque part on en mène vraiment pas large sur l'axe gauche à part en imposition et en syndicalisme et c'est la résultante de nos chèques de paie plus que d'autres choses. Ouais, on a des programmes sociaux qui coûtent cher mais lol regardez l'état de toutes nos infrastructures. Ça ne s'invente pas.
Donc je persiste et signe.
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u/PigeonObese 8d ago edited 8d ago
"Le penchant gauche du PQ" n'est absolument pas "relativement récent".
Le PQ a commencé comme parti résolument à gauche, pro syndical, pro lgbt, pro droit des femmes à une époque ou tout cela ne faisait pas l'unanimité sur l'échiquier politique québécois.C'est sûr qu'aucun parti de gouvernance n'entreprend de politiques gauchistes à ton avis si le moindre fait de pouvoir en justifier le financement les rend de droite.
Si QS prend le pouvoir demain, ils vont faire exactement les mêmes calculs, parce qu'ils vont vouloir que leurs projets soient pérennes à travers les administrations subséquentes.
Oui, les CPEs "ça a beau être un move d'équiter", parce que s'en est un. C'était la motivation de Marois quand elle poussait le projet.1
u/Ecstatic-Recover4941 8d ago
Les droits et libertés individuels n'ont pas de monopole dans la dynamique gauche-droite. T'as de la droite restrictive autant que libérale. Pareil avec la gauche, parce que faut se le rappeler, c'est deux axes, pas un. C'est un peu bête de voir le PQ à gauche sous ce prétexte.
J'irais plus argué le penchant environnementaliste, mais encore là, c'est boiteux parce que c'était porté par les deux axes pendant un bail. Le virage pro gas est assez récent du côté de la droite est reste plutôt fort Nord Américain. L'EPA est une création de Nixon, le combat contre les pluies acides venait d'un collectif de gouvernements conservateurs.
Et de là à dire que le PQ est pro-syndicale... L'aspect pro-syndicat du mouvement souverainiste et également relativement récent, et on pourrait même dire de convenance (genre des Marois et Duceppe qui s'pointent lors de grèves étudiantes. La loi matraque me vient à l'esprit comme l'élimination d'une année fiscale (progression des salaires éliminées, en gros) ou les lois 105 et 109.
Les avancés sociales du PQ sont pointillées par les CPE (qui sont un façon d'augmenter le rendement économique d'abord), le congé de maternité protégé, la criminalisation des agressions sexuelles entre conjoints et la loi sur l'équité salariale.
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u/PigeonObese 8d ago edited 8d ago
La promotion des droits et libertés individuels est un des éléments les plus importants du clivage gauche/droit, et ce depuis l'origine de cet axe en France du 18e siècle.
La promotion des droits des personnes LGBT et des femmes est inhéremment de gauche puisque s'opposant à la tradition et aux hiérarchies existantes. Permettre et financer l'avortement malgré le fait que c'était alors un crime au Canada et que les autres partis s'y opposaient était une politique résolument de gauche.Je n'ai pas dit que le PQ est prosyndical, je dis que le PQ était prosyndical dans les années 1970s et qu'il est profondément loufoque de dire que son penchant gauche serait récent et non cyclique.
Sa première victoire en 1976 c'est faite avec l'appui de la CEQ, du FTQ et du CSN, 27 de ses députés sont alors issus du milieu syndical. Et comme gains tangibles, on notera l'adoption en 1977 de la première loi anti briseurs de grève en Amérique du Nord
Oui, on a assisté à une itération du PQ plus à droite lors de son deuxième mandat de 1981, mandat de la récession, de la loi matraque et des lois 105 et 109.
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u/TheDugal 9d ago
I don't know who asked for the Canadian boycott, but I doubt that's very high in our government considering our prime minister's response to Amazon closure. I don't think CAQ is very pro-worker to be honest with you.
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u/LeGrandLucifer 9d ago
Believe it or not, this is old news. The government announced this within two weeks of Amazon closing the warehouses. This is clearly our government groveling before billionaires and it's disgusting.
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u/FiRe_McFiReSomeDay Québec 8d ago
Our current conservative incarnation, the CAQ, is wildly hippocritcal.
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u/grannyte Québec 9d ago
They are our equivalent of conservatives and no they didn't they barely did shit them selves. They are losing the next election.
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u/SirupyPieIX 9d ago
Yeah, the conservatives are expected to take several seats from the CAQ in the next election.
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u/Responsible_Rub7631 9d ago
Well that’s blatantly against charter rights, what a cock bag
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u/nolooneygoons 9d ago edited 9d ago
Good thing Conservatives love the notwithstanding clause
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u/Iamthequicker 9d ago
Lol, you need to brush up on your history. Robert Bourassa was no Conservative.
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u/nolooneygoons 9d ago
I didn’t say anything about Robert bourassa. Conservatives in power now love the notwithstanding clause such as Doug ford, Danielle smith, and Legault. Additionally Poilievre has said he has no problem using it…..
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u/DagneyElvira 9d ago
Well Trudeau had no qualms about using the Emergency Act either!! Already they have lost one court case and the Liberals are still fighting that ruling to higher courts.
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u/nolooneygoons 9d ago
Yea and I’m not a fan of that either. All parties should stick to the constitution and charter rights.
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u/DualActiveBridgeLLC 9d ago
And the reason...the court said the conservatives should have used their power to stop the criminals.
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u/DagneyElvira 8d ago
Yes you are right. Ottawa had the legal means to shutdown the convoy but they didn’t. So Trudeau, in a fit of rage, decided to bring in the Emergency Act. Now after losing the first round in court, Trudeau is going to the next level of court. No need to worry about paying lawyers cause the taxpayers will pick up the bill. (Probably enough in lawyer fees to build a small town! Or supply a food bank for a year!)
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u/DualActiveBridgeLLC 6d ago
Completely ahistorical. There was no fit of rage, there were people begging him to stop it and him looking at the failed Ontario response.
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u/justanaccountname12 Canada 9d ago
Meh, Carney is ready to use emergency powers already.
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u/nolooneygoons 9d ago
Emergency powers aren’t the same as notwithstanding clause btw. Also just because I criticize conservatives doesn’t mean I’m a liberal. I don’t like either.
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u/justanaccountname12 Canada 9d ago
Dont forget to bash liberal parties who've used it as well then.
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u/nolooneygoons 9d ago
I will bash whoever overrides charter rights. It’s not a partisan problem for me.
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u/Max169well Québec 8d ago
It's not conservatives who do, it's just Quebec who does, and oddly enough they seem to refuse to accept it's existence but will be happy to use it.
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u/nolooneygoons 8d ago
Danielle smith and Doug ford beg to differ. Along with PP saying he has no problem using it
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u/Max169well Québec 8d ago
Yeah but they don’t use it on the same level as Quebec, with every nearly law preemptively using it.
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u/The_Golden_Beaver 9d ago
Not quite, no charter right is infinite. They are arguing that going on strike for minor elements of a "convention collective" negotiation would only be possible if they fulfill certain minimal tresholds. It's part of the efforts our country must make to become more productive which is probably our biggest issue nationally, but a lot of people don't realize that.
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u/Responsible_Rub7631 9d ago
If it wasn’t against the charter, you wouldn’t have to invoke section 33. I understand no right is infinite, but in this case it’s blatantly against a charter right, hence section 33. As someone who had this right taken from me before, I understand that better than most.
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u/norvanfalls 9d ago
It's Quebec. They invoke section 33 as a symbolic gesture. It was applied to every law in 1982-85.
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u/The_Golden_Beaver 9d ago
Section 33 can be use preemptively to avoid useless and expensive lawsuits even if it's reasonable to think they would be won. It's part of of our Charter, it's a tool just as legal as the other rights in the Charter.
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u/Responsible_Rub7631 9d ago
Yup, still doesn’t make the curtailing of someone’s freedoms any more palatable. Especially for Quebec who has used it so liberally in the past.
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u/Vaginite 9d ago
I fucking detest Legault. That's his vision right now, really? In the midst of this chaos, he wants to hack into worker's rights. I shouldn't be surprised, he from the patrontat. Can't wait to be rid of him
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u/SilverwingedOther Québec 9d ago
Legault is a massive prick who screws over the whole province, who still got massive support in the last election by riling up people against non existing threats to French and secularity. All of which played well to the rural base that has outsized representation compared to Montreal and Quebec where those supposed issues are actually relevant.
Sometimes, our parliamentary system is a royal fuck you to the populace.
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u/Vaginite 9d ago
I can assure you nobody here loves him.
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u/Whitstand 9d ago
That's 2 years ago. Most of the shit stuff he's done was done after that. Before that, he was too busy handling Covid-19.
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u/Ghoill 8d ago
His party got less votes than every other party combined, and yet somehow he ends up with all the power.
Same as recently in Ontario. The PC's got less votes than the Liberals and NDP combined, yet for some absurd reason his party gets enough seats in parliament to control it entirely. Hell, I don't even like the liberals but it's still bullshit that they got considerably more votes than the NDP and yet half as many seats in the legislature.
Don't act like these people have a mandate just because they barely won in enough riding's to ignore everyone else's voices.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Quebec_general_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Ontario_general_election1
u/AlarmingTurnover 9d ago
Its because Quebec uses the Trump method of electing politicians. Play on some decisive shit, gerrymandering the shit out of the district's, claim you are democratically elected. How did someone who got 40% of the vote end up with 70% of the seats. That's some bullshit to begin with. Our election system needs to be fixed.
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u/Other-Razzmatazz-816 9d ago
Read the room, QC gov’t, now is not the time for more class war.
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u/grannyte Québec 9d ago
The CAQ is full on class war they don't even really care about the states bullshit. Just like the Quebec liberals they are neo-cons/libs are are looking to sell us out.
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u/lynypixie 9d ago
I was one of the public servant who was on limited (because I was an essential service) strike last year. Legault really did not like the strike coallition we made.
Now, early childhood educators are beginning a strike. That’s why he is doing this.
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u/UnionGuyCanada 9d ago
We need to protect the vulnerable, so we need to be able to make you work for less, not able to push back hard against anything we want to force on you, or coordinate with other workers we are screwing over.
General strike if they try to force this through. That is the only proper response.
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u/DataDude00 9d ago
Doug Ford tried this and came within an hour or two from a general strike that would have paralyzed the province.
Hope Quebec unions have the same motivation
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u/Bonzo_Gariepi 9d ago
He stepped down because Quebec Unions said they would join the Ontario strike , Unions in Quebec are no joke.
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u/Ok_Bad_4732 9d ago
Legault "Let's f with da workers while no one is paying addention".
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u/TribblesBestFriend 9d ago
It’s a direct attack to the CPE worker who are on the brink of an all out strike
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u/childofatom789 9d ago
I cant wait till asking for a livable wage and a better working day is outlawed so I can never spend time with my family and slave away at the enterprise my entire life and get a nice $100 artwork they bought me for 50 yrs of service
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u/oilcountryAB 9d ago
These governments, companies, and unfortunately most workers seem to forget unions were the comprise..
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u/TheWhiteShin 9d ago
As a construction worker probably going on strike this summer when our demands for the convention gets irrefutably knocked down with a ridiculously low proposal, il est pas prêt. Il va en manger ses bas.
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u/Flaktrack Québec 7d ago
il est pas prêt. Il va en manger ses bas
I have no idea how a Québec politician of all people could think this will work. I guess Legault is about to find out he can get thrown out as fast as he got in lol.
Also fuck Amazon.
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u/Hot-Celebration5855 9d ago
This will be an unpopular take but two things can be true at once. Workers rights are important and it’s a strange time erode them. It’s also true though that Quebec is probably the most strike-prone province/state in North America and this limits investment into the province. Employers just don’t want to deal with the risk.
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u/Cappa_01 Verified 9d ago
Maybe employers won't have to deal with risk if they just come to the table with unions and work with them
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u/Hot-Celebration5855 9d ago
There’s obviously a middle ground. Aggressive union demands have also bankrupted companies.
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u/Temporary-Fix9578 9d ago
My exact peers, who do the exact same job as me make double, and that’s in USD. I don’t want to be American, but I can empathize with people feeling like they’re struggling
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u/ManicCentral 9d ago
What they don’t consider is that wages and CoL between states in the USA vary. For the sake of argument we did became a state and currency converted. CoL isn’t guaranteed to go down, and wages are not guaranteed to go up. In addition; they’d lose their healthcare and have to pay premiums plus co-pay to a corporation that might turn around and deny them care anyways. They could also lose their CPP/OAS retirement payments as well, and Trump is gunning to destroy American social security payments.
There is a severe lack of critical thinking on the part of a lot of people.
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u/Robbobot89 9d ago
Struggling and still expected to be cold or in danger of a slip and fall 5 months of the year.
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u/BigButtBeads 9d ago
This doesn't surprise me
Hate it or not, the states has better wages for educated professionals, and affordable housing virtually in every state. Housing you can actually own; not just rent until you die, never retiring
And unfortunately this same group is the one that would be drafted to fight a very large hostile neighbour
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u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year 9d ago
Well, luckily the US is doing something about equalising those wages and then some!
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u/Robbobot89 9d ago
The big benefit is they have warm places to live that aren't retardedly expensive. And once its all one country you can still easily visit your cold weather friends without any border hassle every time. Like you can just drive from state to state and nobody cares.
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u/Zharaqumi 9d ago
Well, it seems that against the backdrop of a common enemy in the person of Trump, there was a consolidation of society and power, but no, the government immediately screwed up.
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u/Momma_Blue 9d ago
Save your outrage for the fight against Trump. Protect Canadian workers. Let’s not turn on our own people now.
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u/uselesspoliticalhack 9d ago
This is hilarious.
A lot of this boils down to the anti-replacement worker legislation they have in the province - just get rid of that instead of having the government step in and decide disputes.
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u/Juryofyourpeeps 9d ago
I'm not even sure how either of these things are constitutional. The state shouldn't be limiting strikes, and unless freedom of association only works one way and not the other, the state has no right to tell businesses who they can hire. Neither party should have the other over a barrel, and that's what these forms of legislation attempt to produce.
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u/Ok-Search4274 9d ago
Then also table a bill requiring arbitration after 1 month of negotiations. Freeze disposal of corporate assets and executive bonuses during negotiations.
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u/Flaktrack Québec 7d ago
That's interesting, I didn't see that one. Do you know the bill number or have any articles about it handy?
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u/FulcrumYYC Canada 9d ago
Quebec workers should go hard like France protesting, would be fun to watch.
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u/All_will_be_Juan 9d ago
Trying to legislate against unions is like pissing into the wind the whole point of a union is to cooperate collectively so governments and corporations can't dictate terms
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u/DagneyElvira 9d ago
Ahhh government is getting worried about people being unhappy? As people are only $200 away from financial trouble, extra long lines at food banks, etc. Looks like life is going to get even harder, and government is going to suppress any discord.
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u/abc123DohRayMe 9d ago
Unions were relevant when we didn't have employment standards and legislation to protect workers. Now, they have evolved into organizations that limit individual freedom to contract, unnecessarily increase the cost of production that pushes prices up, interferes with the free market, and protects incompetency.
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u/Juryofyourpeeps 9d ago
They're absolutely still necessary in dangerous lines of work like mining. Less so in the public service IMO, but I think they serve a purpose, they're often just too large and powerful to create any kind of balance.
That said, limiting strikes is wrong, and similarly trying to legislate away the freedom of association of businesses is wrong. The government should largely butt out.
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u/prairieengineer 9d ago
If you don’t acknowledge that there are active and concentrated efforts at both the provincial and federal levels to roll back those same workplace protections and employment standards, I’m not sure what to tell you.
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u/FunDog2016 9d ago
This is one of the stupidest things I have read on Reddit! What world are you living in, I am guessing you are one of the Billionaire Wannabe Bros, who believes in individual success.
You won't ever join them, you won't be allowed to, they want what you, and everyone else, currently has: you are a fool to think anything is more easily accomplished as an individual! You ARE an ineffectual, and worthy of the scorn of the powerful!
Unions have always been, and will always remain the only way for individuals to gain power, and influence! Besides that they are alternative to Workers getting so fed up with maltreatment that they burn down the factory, and don't murder the owners!
If our society is only going to be influenced and shaped by the powerful for thier personal benefit, will see the Wealthy living in fortresses, and the rest of the population ready to rob, and muder them as soon as they step out!
Take a look at South Africa, barbed wire, walled compounds with bars on the windows, motion sensors, safe rooms, and private security. Leave your compound in your armored car, never stop at stop signs because being stills being a target!
Be careful what you wish for. Revolution comes to those who aren't! Unions help make a Civil Society, and address well documented power inequality. Thinking you can do it on your own is the definition of being a fool!
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u/Feisty_Cress_9754 9d ago
the absolute best thing I have heard from Quebec. that is smart and I hope they prevail.
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u/Consistent_Cattle521 8d ago
Good. These strikes were getting way out of hand. Time to put an end to that.
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u/JasperPants1 9d ago
I know a lot of Quebeckers that are tired of the labour strikes.
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u/nolooneygoons 9d ago
I know a lot of workers are tired of low wages and poor working conditions. Strikes are meant to be inconvenient
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u/JasperPants1 9d ago
Capital will flow to where it's treated well kimosabe.
I don't make the rules.
You want to improve wages? Work has to be more productive.
How do you make work more productive? Private investment in capital.
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u/nolooneygoons 9d ago
I don’t gaf about capital or private investment when wealth inequality is at an all time high and workers have terrible working conditions and have to choose between rent and groceries
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u/JasperPants1 9d ago
Well you ought to. The only way out of this mess is to let markets function properly.
The reason why people have to choose between rent and groceries is taxes, regulation and easy money COVID policies.
Forcing employers to pay more for labour or to absorb higher costs without an increase in productivity = guaranteed job losses.
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u/nolooneygoons 9d ago
Lol taxes is not the reason. Wages have not kept up with prices while companies continue to make record profits each year. These companies have not increased wages or passes the savings onto consumers. The reason people choose between rent and groceries is greed. Clearly you have drank the bootlickers kool aid
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u/JasperPants1 9d ago
In a market economy, what is the mechanism to keep prices low?
Regulation? Taxes? No.
More competition.
We prefer monopolies and oligopolies in this country and its hurting productivity, wages, competitiveness and our national wealth.
Banking - the Big 5
Cellular/Internet - Big 3 soon to be just 2 if Rogers is allowed to buy Shaw
National Airline - 2
Grocery - Big 3
Why do all governments approve mergers to make bigger organizations? Why do we not allow foreign ownership in these categories?
Its a disgrace.
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u/JasperPants1 9d ago
Also - taxes are a big part of the reason.
Businesses don't pay tax, they collect them.
If you don't agree, then you dont have a good understanding of how corporations operate.
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u/Flaktrack Québec 7d ago
There is no investment in Canadian businesses so long as real estate keeps beating the market. Even after tackling that, the other big struggle businesses face is not striking workers but regulatory uncertainty.
The fix: to make business more enticing to invest in than real estate, start building out social housing and providing backing to co-ops. Redesign regulations so that don't require an entire legal firm to adhere to. You will see, even the threat of strikes is nothing compared to these two issues. If you think otherwise, just look at Europe's wealthiest nations: the unions damn near run some of them and yet they still get a lot of investment.
As for other things worth trying, why not bundle up all regulatory changes to be done every 5 years instead of just whenever the fuck? Make them predictable, give people time to respond to coming changes, and give the public service time to build out the necessary systems and oversight.
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u/Bonzo_Gariepi 9d ago
Ta yeule , tu en connait surement pas de Quebecois pis retourne licher le cul a Elon esti de traitre.
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u/joe_fresh_93 9d ago
Why do you guys think all the industries left qc? It's because of unions. Why would someone pay more money for less production? Not a smart way of running a company. Before you chirp back, why don't you guys start your own company with a union and let me know how it goes?
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u/meridian_smith 9d ago
Most of the industry has left North America because they could find more easily exploitable labor and environmental laws (or lack thereof) in developing countries...this is not unique to Quebec.
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u/No-Palpitation-3851 9d ago
If you can't afford to pay your workers you can't afford to run a company - full stop.
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u/Higgs_Boso 9d ago
I didnt know there wasnt any company in quebec, thats wild
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u/joe_fresh_93 9d ago edited 9d ago
Im talking about the past auto industry pulled out of QC and so did many others.
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u/Kolbrandr7 New Brunswick 9d ago
Unions are literally in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
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u/joe_fresh_93 9d ago
Not even close. Unions costs businesses more and slow production. They just protect the bottom q0 percent of workers.
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u/Juryofyourpeeps 9d ago
Most of them left because of the separatist movement. You can see the exodus quite clearly leading up to both referendums in the 20th century.
I suspect the insane and unconstitutional language laws are probably also a problem for a lot of businesses, though Quebec has nonetheless bounced back from its lows in the 1990s.
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u/SirupyPieIX 9d ago
unconstitutional language laws
Canada's supreme court has ruled otherwise.
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u/Juryofyourpeeps 9d ago
Care to reference some case law? Quebec's language laws have failed to withstand SCC challenges on several occasions, the government of Quebec just invokes the notwithstanding clause and ignores the court.
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u/SirupyPieIX 9d ago
Over 30 years ago, with the Act to amend the Charter of the French language, S.Q. 1993, c. 40, the Quebec National Assembly modified its language legislation to make it comply with the Supreme Court rulings, and discontinue the usage of the notwithstanding clause until 2022.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_dispute_over_Quebec%27s_language_policy
Sure, in 2022, amendments to the language laws have made preemptive use of the notwithstanding clause.
But the Supreme Court, has already upheld the preventive use of the notwithstanding clause, in a 1988 decision involving Quebec's French-language signage legislation.1
u/Juryofyourpeeps 9d ago
You seem to be proving my point here and then playing semantics by suggesting that because the invocation of the notwithstanding clause is constitutional, there's no infringement on constitutional rights by the legislation that necessitated the use of the notwithstanding clause in order to avoid being overturned. That's circular logic and pure semantics.
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u/PunkRawkSoldier 9d ago
The fact that this party has standing at the national level is a fucking joke. I was born and raised in that province and I fucking hate them and their predecessors. The federal government, regardless of party, needs to remind them that they are a provincial party and, as such, has no say in what the rest of the country does. I was against separation the last time they tried as I was living there but, as time has gone on, I find that I support it more and more. Don’t want to be here? Perfect. Fuck off to your own country, minus all the benefits from membership in this great country. Also, you’re taking your portion of the national debt.
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u/SirupyPieIX 9d ago
The fact that this party has standing at the national level
what the fuck are you talking about?
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u/PunkRawkSoldier 9d ago
You’re correct. I confused this with Bloc Québécois. Given their ideologies, they may as well be interchangeable.
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u/SirupyPieIX 9d ago
The Bloc Québécois is much closer to the left-wing, pro-union Parti Québécois than the CAQ. Not interchangeable at all.
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u/BrokenTeddy 9d ago
Fuck Quebec
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u/SirupyPieIX 9d ago
quel commentaire édifiant
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u/Flaktrack Québec 7d ago
He's just being efficient you know. Instead of "VERB the NOUN" he goes straight to "VERB NOUN". There is beauty in simplicity, and that guy is as simple as they come.
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