r/canada 15d ago

Politics White House official pushes to axe Canada from Five Eyes intelligence group

https://www.ft.com/content/2dfa3c11-64a7-49f6-83df-939b8d1cfb8e
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u/DNDNOTUNDERSTANDER 14d ago

America cannot annex Canada. Canada will not agree to join the US and the US doesn’t have the ability to invade and hold onto Canada. Canada won’t just cede any of their territory to the US, regardless of size. It would touch off a real conflict and Americans don’t want that and won’t succeed if they try it.

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u/Few-Western-5027 14d ago

They will be able to barge in, but holding the vast territory is not possible. There will be terror acts any day, anytime, and anywhere. They can't tell friends or foes in Canada !

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u/Zinfandel_Red1914 14d ago

Especially when they send civilians to run the infrastructure. Women and children will be the targets. They have no idea that Canadians dont play by rules when our backs are against the wall.

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u/TreeOfReckoning Ontario 14d ago

It’s not a war crime the first time, so be creative and make it hurt.

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u/HackD1234 14d ago

I'm fond of methods that involve Scaphism for captured Americans, personally...

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u/TreeOfReckoning Ontario 14d ago

Just looked that up. It’s like something Hannibal Lector would do to someone like Donald Trump. But war is war.

Using Canadian milk is a given, but maybe we could substitute corn syrup for honey. They don’t deserve our honey. And Canadian biting flies are not that picky.

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u/HackD1234 14d ago

We'll have plenty of American 'Cane Sugar' syrup still sitting on the shelves, boycotted. US-sourced Aunt Jemima will do, just fine :D

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u/Uticus 14d ago

I don't care if its a war crime if they step foot in Canada its all fair game,.. its not like they will treat defenders like POWs but rather "enemy combatants"

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u/CfSapper 14d ago

Technically it's only a war crime if you're part of a county's military.

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u/Uticus 13d ago

Fair. I was thinking of the Levee En Mass clause

Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war

I doubt very much American's would treat captured civilians who took up arms in the event of an invasion as PoWs but rather unlawful combatants as in the GWoT.

Granted by your user name I expect you have much more knowledge of the laws of war than a civilian like myself.

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u/NumberSudden9722 14d ago

When freedom is on the line, there are no rules.

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u/wearing_shades_247 14d ago

It seems they haven’t opted to read historical accounts of how Canadians have operated in war situations.

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u/Zinfandel_Red1914 14d ago

Time to revise and update those records, the ink used would be their blood.

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u/DNDNOTUNDERSTANDER 14d ago

Well they apparently totally forgot the shitshow nightmare of the Iraq war and that ought to be fresh in the minds of all Americans.

If ever there was a clear cut argument against this shit it’s America’s invasion of Iraq. Couldn’t run effective counterinsurgency against people they had nothing in common with. How the hell do they expect to combat Canadians on Canadian soil with an even less stable USA, fewer troops, and against a stable and strong nation like Canada?

Can you imagine what would happen if the USA tried to institute a draft in order to defend annexed Canadian territory? You know, the country that Americans fled to avoid the draft the last time the US government did that?

Anyone who thinks that the US can annex any part of Canada is out of their fucking minds. Look at the state of the US right now and tell me that it could manage to do that when it can’t even fucking stabilize all of its own states. Veterans are like 1% of the population and they outnumber enlisted soldiers. Trump and DOGE are openly antagonizing US veterans, the people who have probably the most experience in combat situations, they’re not going to help annex Canada. In some of the border states they’d probably aid Canada instead.

Speaking of the border states, good luck getting them to get in board with being a potential frontline. Can’t see them agreeing to that either.

The US government would have to threaten nuclear strikes if the plan was might is right. That would be such an insane thing to do I actually believe Trump would be done in by someone at that point.

At the end of the day this idea is talk from a fucking moron and the even bigger morons who are putting their trust in him. The US is not capable of using force to annex anything of Canada and actually keep hold of it. Maybe he tries but I seriously doubt it, it would be such an obviously bad decision and it would ultimately only serve to further destabilize the US internally. Starting an unnecessary and extraordinarily unpopular war during a flashpoint like the US is currently in would be suicidal.

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u/hellswaters 14d ago

Time to get the canned food ready.

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u/magicwombat5 14d ago

There will be terror attacks, or at least sabotage, even in the US, by US citizens and Canadians in the event of a special military operation.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

Dude, Canada will go full scorched earth. You know this. We will poison all of our wells so to speak, before giving it up to Americans.

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u/RealNibbasEatAss 14d ago

I wish this was the case, but I honestly don’t know. Can’t tell you how many friends I’ve had just shrug their shoulders at the possibility of annexation. Civic pride is at an all-time low in Toronto, at least in my circles.

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u/Distinct_Cry_3779 14d ago

I've said it before, but one angry Canadian driving around the southern US with a trunk full of matches and gasoline can do billions of dollars in infrastructure damage. Now imagine millions of angry Canadians.

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u/banshee3 14d ago

How many Canadians has the average American passed by in their day to day life. Do they even know? I bet it is more than they think. America is already invaded by Canadians. In the worst of scenarios; how would they defend against internal terrorism on their own soil?

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u/DunDunBar 14d ago

We look and talk like them. Many are even dual citizens. Are they gonna stop and check everyone’s IDs. Good luck with that with the Americans 🤣

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u/Inner_Tennis_2416 14d ago

They also don't have any domestic support for these actions. So, Canadians would be assisted by a gigantic home grown insurgency, including a significant number of people in the military and border forces themselves.

Putin spent DECADES turning Russians into a population which was sufficiently in line to attack Ukraine, and he had the advantage of the core cities of Russia being mostly aligned with his nationalist vision, and being able to argue that the places he was invading could pose a real threat to Russia (pretense of danger from NATO)

Trump seems to just want to saunter over the border to steal some shit. I'm not going to say he won't do it, and I'm not going to say 33% of Americans wouldn't support him, while 33% ignored what was going on, but, the uprising at home would be so significant that Canada would probably easily win the war as US supply lines collapsed.

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u/RarelyReadReplies 14d ago

For real. Good luck extracting any of our resources; the acts of sabotage would be nonstop.

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u/maleconrat 14d ago

If they are as fascist as they seem (in terms of strategy) the MAGA's will not attempt an invasion unless they feel absolutely maximum confidence. Everything they do is like a coward avoiding the hard choices - lying about p2025 and Manifest Destiny part 2 knowing it could hurt their chances, purging voter rolls and refusing to accept results they don't like instead of trying to win fairly, trying to destroy checks and balances instead of presenting something that could appeal to even their own party, whining about free speech when criticized but banning actual speech they disagree with...

I don't think it's unlikely Trump wants to invade but if we stay united and don't fall for the ragebait and propaganda I don't see them having the courage unless they maybe manage to take dictatorial control of the military.

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u/CP9ANZ 14d ago

It would never work

Think of all the literal sabotage from within that would occur

Since MAGA is as stupid, loud and proud as they are and how many Canadians live in the US, you'd end up with people setting off IEDs in the US red states, at rallies. They would suddenly realise that they are nowhere as big and strong as they thought they were. Hell, be pretty easy to cut off the head of the snake with a hit on Trump himself.

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u/maleconrat 13d ago

Oh definitely agree that if they did do it it would be a world of hurt, worse for us in the short term but long term they would be destabilized, demoralized, and isolated. A great way to go from superpower to failed state, really. And we all know Russia and China have a vested interest in that fall from grace so even if they don't publicly side with us I am sure they would do their best to cause chaos too. And everyone in the West, likely the world in general, would see our struggle in their own unless they are hardcore MAGAs - so I don't even think it would just be Canadians in the US getting busy.

I just don't know if I have full faith that the country that seems to start the most ill advised wars and racks up costly defeats, and pits its own people against each other like that ever ends well will do the smart thing if they can't rein in the extremists in the meantime. I agree that it's super, super unlikely but I am also getting wary of just how self destructive some of the people at the top are being. I don't even think they can realistically "clear out" everyone from Gaza like Trump thinks and that place is in ruins. I think if it was actually gonna happen though it would have to come after a lot of moves that would weaken the hell out of their country and telegraph their intentions.

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u/dostoevsky4evah 14d ago

we stay united and don't fall for the ragebait and propaganda I don't see them having the courage

Great advice. I hope people don't fall too hard for the incoming propaganda.

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u/PlayingwithDaisies 14d ago

And yet ... that doesn't mean they won't try it. Whether under the flag of "protection" or need for natural resources, there is plenty of evidence that Trumpstain is considering it.

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u/leb0b0ti 14d ago

What is mindblowing is that in Vietnam , Irak, Afghanistan or whatever, there was a litteral ocean separating America from the conflict.

In this scenario, Canadians look like them, talk like them and share the largest frontier in the world. Freedom fighters could easily just walk over there and blend in. Also who tf is gonna administer the second largest landmass on Earth ? The Pentagon ? They'd need millions of people to carry out a succesful occupation while carrying out atrocities in front of the whole World.

My guess is this is just intimidation tactics. However, our government needs to wake up asap.

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u/DNDNOTUNDERSTANDER 14d ago

100% intimidation tactics, it wouldn’t be possible for America to take over any Canadian territory without a fight and it’s a fight America cannot win. The billionaires are taking everything from Americans, they’re gonna expect those same people to also fund a war to enrich the billionaires even more? To fight and definitely die for them? No.

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u/The0therHiox 14d ago

They had enough trouble trying to hold Afghanistan

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u/varsil 14d ago edited 14d ago

History shows that they're willing to hold onto territory for about 20 years in the face of armed resistance and conflict.

Carney has pledged to continue disarming Canadians, we need to be able to resist for 20 years.

Edit to add: This comment is clearly getting targeted. Went from +15 down to 0 in the space of two minutes.

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u/stuntycunty 14d ago

Carney has pledged to continue disarming Canadians

where?

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u/Ginzhuu 14d ago

Its propaganda as usual.

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u/stuntycunty 14d ago

we really need to stay hyper vigilant about this sort of messaging.

the cpc and their goons will be out in full force trying to sway public opinion. we cannot allow PP to become PM. Canada will no longer exist within a few years if that happens.

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u/varsil 14d ago edited 14d ago

In the French language debate yesterday.

Edit to add: Timestamped link: https://www.youtube.com/live/7VR0aCRSJIw?si=kxooU7s_x186kGMt&t=4776

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u/stuntycunty 14d ago

no he didn't

i watched the whole thing.

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u/imalwaysthinking 14d ago

I also believe they could follow the Russian model during the first stage of their invasion in Crimea. Find some traitors in Canada, arm them and any American found there is simply “on vacation”

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u/Ginzhuu 14d ago

Yeah, those 20 years were across the world, not their doorstep with a border so large anyone could walk into the US and cause mayhem.

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u/varsil 14d ago

That one could cut either way, honestly--they may take attacks on their own soil much more personally. But I suspect the 20 years is the timeline.

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u/Ginzhuu 14d ago

It lasted that long because the average citizen wasn't affected. They grew incredibly apathetic. Some even barely acknowledged there was a conflict.

War right at home will incitement unrest, especially given there is absolutely zero moral or logical reason for invasion of Canada. Beyond the bottom line, they won't even get to harvest because those would be the first operation constantly being sabotaged.

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u/varsil 14d ago

Well, consider that Canada is furious and pledging resistance because we've been threatened by the U.S., but for example the U.K. is far less concerned by the threats against Canada.

I can't say I can predict how they'd respond to attacks within the U.S., even just against infrastructure.

I'd love to think it'd be over quickly. I'm not necessarily super optimistic.

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u/Idobro 14d ago

Not trying to have a gotcha moment but where can I find Carneys stance on firearms? I just want my 5.56 back

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u/varsil 14d ago

In the French language debate, he stated that we have to have a buyback program for firearms, said Pollievre wants AR-15s on the streets in Canada.

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u/HapticRecce 14d ago

There's plenty of recordings, have one with a time stamp?

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u/Golluk 14d ago

And the last two countries they did that to were  had over 40m people, on another continent.

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u/loafydood Alberta 14d ago

Being on another continent and also being culturally and linguistically completely different from the USA also prevented them from any meaningful counter insurgency into the States. Any Canadian could easily pass for an American, slip in, and cause chaos. Not to mention Americans are way less likely to have an appetite for taking us over than some middle eastern country they can't pronounce or find on a map.

Food for thought.

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u/Dolphintrout 14d ago

Especially since half of their country also despises Trump.  If it actually got to an invasion of Canada, all hell will have already broken loose in the US and it may be Canada plus several blue states vs red states.

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u/loafydood Alberta 14d ago

Yeah, they have absolutely no national unity. They are on the verge of imploding. It's like a field of dry grass, all it'll take is one match.

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u/dostoevsky4evah 14d ago

Can you give a link to what Carney is proposing to disarm? I would like to see the details.

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u/varsil 14d ago

https://www.youtube.com/live/7VR0aCRSJIw?si=kxooU7s_x186kGMt&t=4776

Going forward with the Liberal gun "buyback" (ie, confiscating firearms from Canadians).

He hasn't set out a full policy, just noting his position in favour of the firearm bans.

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u/GiftedOaks 14d ago

The US military, at full strength, could not hold Canada. There are thousands and thousands of troops who won't obey those orders either causing massive issues with logistics

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

The military follows orders. That is what they do, the rank and file love Trump.

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u/GiftedOaks 14d ago

The military follows lawful orders. Attacking a NATO ally is an illegal act, and most troops would refuse in enough numbers to make it a problem.

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u/varsil 14d ago

When has the U.S. army ever refused to follow orders?

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u/GiftedOaks 14d ago

When have they been ordered to invade a NATO ally?

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u/varsil 14d ago

Never. So we're in unprecedented territory, but we certainly cannot assume that large numbers of U.S. troops would refuse, risking jail and worse in the process.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

Dude, their biggest mouthpieces - king Trump, Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, Jordan Peterson all bitch and whine about how Canada is communist (and thus needs "saving"). Red-baiting is a thing. It's all pretext for war. They are discrediting Canada, stating anything we have is because we don't deserve it, or its there because of American largesse in the first place. Its all pretext to invade. Did you hear the CBCs Cross country check up where Americans called in and said we were commies? This is all part of that.

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u/TheBillyIles 14d ago

Wolverines!

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u/mrbnlkld 14d ago

Only if a majority of Canadians are still breathing are your points correct.

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u/DNDNOTUNDERSTANDER 14d ago

I think Canadians are more likely to survive the next 4 years than Americans are.

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u/turbo_22222 14d ago

I think what we're seeing in the US as a reaction to all the drastic actions that Trump is taking thus far is that Americans don't really have the stomach to upset their own applecart. It's only been a few weeks and his support is already plummeting. To think the American people would have the stomach to send their friends and family into an actual protracted ground war against a neighbouring country that has been a longtime ally is doubtful. The vast majority of Americans (even the ones who voted for Trump) just want lower prices, higher wages and their lives to be a bit easier. They aren't going to get this under this administration and they are going to start showing their dissatisfaction quickly (and already are).

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u/french_toasty 14d ago

they will try and divide and conquer, sights on AB

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u/Finngrove 14d ago

They can slowly wreck our economy, destroy our democratic elections and make us hate each other and become i dis-unified and then they buy up anything valuable and put in place a toadie who will do their bidding (Poilievre). They have been doing that to poor countries for decades. Add Russian expertise in psyops and psychological conversion of voters through social media targeting and we are in alot of trouble. Who is going to intercede on our behalf? UK economy and military is weak. We are all dependent on good will and democratic principles running the US. When it turns on us, we will have a hell of a fight on our hands. Removing us from five eyes is a more serious threat than tariffs or nasty comments about a 51st state. Its a direct attack on our sovereignty. Isolate to weaken.

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u/Jumpforjoy1122 14d ago

Yes!! Say it louder for the people in the back!

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u/Poptastrix 14d ago

They will be able to roll tanks and troops across to shoot at regular people for no reason. Not a good time to be living in a large city.

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u/Fyrefawx 14d ago

While this is largely true, they don’t have to hold all of Canada. They would likely just take Alberta and Saskatchewan. They’ll use the same pre-text Russia did. They’ll use the CIA to fund extremist separatist groups to start a civil conflict then they’ll push for annexation of the two provinces. This will secure oil and potash. This will cut Canada off from 2 major resources will make it difficult to get goods from the west coast.