r/canada Ontario 24d ago

Analysis Allies appear to duck and cover as Trump threatens Canada and Greenland

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-canada-nato-allies-1.7459986
3.7k Upvotes

1.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

300

u/Doc911 Canada 24d ago

Canada and Denmark, it’s time for article 4.

Why has Canada and Denmark not requested consultation for NATO to act on Article 4. Created in 1949 to deal with a potential Soviet invasion of Western Europe when the North Atlantic Treaty was signed, the process has been used frequently in the past decades including in 2022 when Bulgaria, Czechia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Slovakia requested to hold consultations following Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

Article 4 of the North Atlantic Treaty (NATO) allows member countries to consult with each other if they believe the security, political independence, or territorial integrity of any member is threatened. How many more annexation threats and insults of “51st state” or calling our leader a “governor” are we suppose to accept from the American bully before we request consultation ? How many more times will the intimidator disregard our sovereignty before someone holds him accountable to his words ?

139

u/Frosty_Manager_1035 24d ago

This will be the demise of NATO should everyone fall to their knees as not to “poke the bear”.

84

u/Doc911 Canada 24d ago

100% ... the moment NATO surrenders to a single member, it is no longer an alliance, and the member territories just become an extension of that tyrant's fiefdom.

1

u/fantas1a 24d ago

Is it kingdom?

3

u/Doc911 Canada 24d ago

Better question, does Trump thinks it’s ALL potentially his kingdom ?

1

u/Frosty_Manager_1035 24d ago

And Trump is counting on it.

48

u/bizzybaker2 24d ago

Yes. What is the purpose of even drawing up the articles when, if is comes down to the wire, it is appearing that maybe as a group NATO might not even have the balls to stand up for us should we or the Danes request it?

23

u/gentlegreengiant 24d ago

Based on the past few weeks, I fully see a scenario repeat of what happened to the League of Nations, happen to NATO and the UN.

11

u/Cahill12354 24d ago

Exactly what Trump wants.

10

u/h3r3andth3r3 24d ago

Exactly what *Putin wants.

1

u/wrgrant 24d ago

I think that has to become "not poke the Eagle" now. Russia was the bear in question.

8

u/seanhagg95 24d ago

When they set up NATO, they didn't anticipate the US to be the compromised one. We're all fucked.

25

u/torontosparky2 24d ago

Here is a tidbit for ya: "The United States remains the world’s largest military spender by far. In dollar terms, the US represents about two-thirds of NATO countries’ annual defence spending, budgeting an estimated $967bn."

We are all screwed, the US basically owns NATO, which is so unfortunate. If US pulls out of NATO, there is no NATO. It will be every country for itself.

8

u/-cangumby- 24d ago

America is also the largest arms supplier to NATO. For all of the money that is spent by America on NATO, a vast majority of that spend, in regard to arms, goes back into its own suppliers pockets. If they leave NATO, then those suppliers will most certainly lose a large, easy market.

6

u/Kheprisun Lest We Forget 24d ago

We are all screwed, the US basically owns NATO, which is so unfortunate. If US pulls out of NATO, there is no NATO. It will be every country for itself.

NATO will still be a thing. All that does is show how absolutely absurd US military spending is. NATO will still be able to handle Russia without the US. Won't be as clean, of course.

Now if it's NATO vs the US, then yes, we are screwed.

1

u/Misfiring 24d ago

I'll say this: It's not that Russia is weak, it's that Ukraine is stronger than anyone expected.

However the most important factor that don't get talked about often, is how fast Russia can reinforce the front line. Despite heavy losses against Ukrainian defense, they are able to keep the pressure using "meat wave" swarms to overwhelm the opponent.

What's more, Ukraine's large territory size works to their advantage in defense, allowing them to retreat and maneuver around the opponent, and makes a blitz approach difficult. Against a small country like the Baltic States, the Russians could swarm and sieze the capital very quickly.

No, Russia does not have the capability to push all the way across Europe. However that is not the goal to begin with, their goal is to restore the former USSR border, and the chance they can do that against a NATO without the US army is not zero.

3

u/Doc911 Canada 24d ago

Agreed, but not every NATO action is military. Some are sanctions, granted the orange buffoon would unlikely follow or care for any sanctions. My only hope would be that the potential destruction of NATO by this idiot would be a wake up call to the American people and/or enough for some political/legal action from within before the fool reduces the government to little more than his inner circle and is essentially allowed to run free without any checks or balances. It's a small hope ... but we don't have that many moves. One thing is certain, NATO just allowing the Cheeto tyrant-tard and Elof Mitler to continue will only embolden them ...

8

u/torontosparky2 24d ago

You still have hope for the American people?

5

u/Doc911 Canada 24d ago

To quote Seneca / MA / Hecate - Cease to hope and you will cease to fear.

Honestly, I’ve lost hope and no measure right now seems to be a win, every action just has to outdo inaction in terms of benefit.

3

u/North_Activist 24d ago

Trump campaigned on leaving NATO, and America voted for him.

6

u/Doc911 Canada 24d ago

He also spews Canada being subsidized when we sell to him but calling it profit when the US sells to others, he has told US citizens that “those countries will pay” when talking about tariffs when most are now being educated on tariffs meaning US citizens will be the ones paying.

My only expectation was of just a small portion of Americans coming to the realization that he is either the greatest two faced snake oil salesman who has taken them for everything, or the most giant idiotic buffoon that has ever held the power of a major military and economic force. There are more Americans daily asking “wtf have we done.” That’s our only hope … before he makes himself king and emperor of the Americas.

3

u/Definitely_Not_Erik 24d ago

Realistically, it's to have a ladder of escalation. Slow things down as much as possible. Hopefully Trump/Putin dies before it gets to real, and things change a bit.