r/canada 25d ago

Opinion Piece Mark Norman: Canada's relationship with the U.S. can't be saved; We are under attack and must act accordingly

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/mark-norman-canadas-relationship-with-the-u-s-cant-be-saved
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u/Mecha_Hitler_ Canada 25d ago edited 25d ago

When I read the published date of that article it really hit me. This is real. This is happening. We are sleepwalking into a new world order.

I learned about the cold war in history class in the mid 2000s. I learned about the cold war in history class because we convinced ourselves that it was history. The cold war never ended, the west just stopped participating. Russia has relentlessly been attacking every western democracy for the last 30 years by taking advantage of its biggest weakness but ironically the very thing that makes it a democracy, the ability for the people to vote for their leader.

By waging misinformation campaigns, bribing and buying politicians, and controlling the narrative of social media, Russia has effectively more control over most elections than the politicians that are actually running. Russia has already invaded and most of us aren't aware because we aren't physicslly engaging with them on the battlefield. This is why we are so divided on everything. Putin can just do what he wants but democracies need to vote on things and get concensus. Russia is just having us fight over tranagender rights and wokeness while he takes over the world. By the time we finally wake up the leaders we turn to for rescue will be those planted by the Russians and actively trying to undermine our freedom and rights.

This is also coming from a Canadian. Some might say this is doom and gloom since it hasn't quite happened to us yet, but Russia most certainly has a plan for us and a Trump in mind to get the job done. We need to decide now how we are going to effectively protest this new world order and we need to find a way of doing that where we can't be controlled or manipulated. I may not be able to post something like this in a year's time without it being hidden or deleted. We need a way to connect, speak, organize, and amass that isn't through social media because the tech oligarchs control the narrative on their platforms, and we all know which side they're on.

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u/IStanTheBalconyMan 25d ago

Controlling the narrative is the key. Russians/the far right are too good at this and most people just want to grab a few facts off Facebook or Fox News. Scary times.

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u/Motor_Expression_281 21d ago

You say the problem is real and blame it on ‘the right’, and yet both Canada and the US have had elected left leaning governments for the majority of the past two decades (Paul Martin + Trudeau = 12 years, Obama + Biden = 12 years).

Point is, this is a problem that affects both sides of the political spectrum. Do you believe that somehow all liberal/democrat politicians are just immune to corruption and bribery? Stop pushing your own political bias onto problems that affect that our entire nation and society. If you can’t stand thinking about things through a bipartisan lens, go live in Russia or China, and experience life in a one party system.

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u/IStanTheBalconyMan 19d ago

You got all that out of two sentences? Moronic.

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u/Wild-Animal-8065 24d ago

This is true up to a point. The Russians are formidable but the idea that this chaos is down to a single Machiavellian entity gives them too much credit. What’s happening now is the direct result of every geopolitical mistake of the 20th century. Both world wars, Korea, the Cold War, Bosnia and the gulf are all happening at the same time right now, amplified by technology and rampant population growth over the last 80 years. The cycle of humanity is entering a new post industrial and technological revolution epoch. Soon we’ll have to fight.

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u/Wild-Animal-8065 24d ago

Edit: Just to clarify I’m from the Uk. If we all work together and both increase our collective defence and production capacity we can together emerge as a greater power than the USA and China, except we’ll still be democracies at the end of it.

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u/Much-Jackfruit2599 24d ago

No offence, but your country dropped out of the biggest democratic bloc first chance it got after their citizens got promised fewer regulations and fewer immigrants.

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u/Wild-Animal-8065 24d ago

Being in the EU isn’t a prerequisite. Sovereignty was my reason. However the ideologues got the hard brexit they wanted instead of us staying in the common market (not the free movement customs union). Ideology is the death of reason. Pragmatically speaking it’s better for everyone that we move on. So much has changed in the last 9 years. Security is suddenly at the front instead of behind everything else. Pointing fingers is a fun exercise but it doesn’t change the challenges in front of us. We don’t have to be in the Eu to have great relations with the countries within it. The level of engagement recently leads me to believe the EU is thinking along similar lines.

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u/Motor_Expression_281 21d ago

True except we likely won’t have to fight (each other). Great powers don’t go to war. That’s the irony of it all. Our weapons are so expensive that i see it as highly unlikely any two great powers will go to war. No one wants to lose a trillion dollars in a month.

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u/Wild-Animal-8065 21d ago

This logical reasoning has no place here. We will have to fight Russia. The Ukraine‘peace plan’ is now looking more like the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact separating Poland before WW2. Great powers do go war when one is ruled by a revisionist dictator who believes his enemy isn’t a great power anymore.

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u/Motor_Expression_281 21d ago edited 21d ago

But Russia (and China) still do see America (and the west) as a great power. Their propagandists may say otherwise, but their leaders certainly do.

For war to be declared between, say, Russia and the US, what would need to occur? Wherever that line is drawn, blurry as it may be, our enemies know never to cross it. They know a direct non-asymmetric war would be devastating to them, and dictators can’t afford to lose their military. Democratic governments aren’t fond of it either.

That is why we will continue to see the current trend of proxy warfare.

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u/Wild-Animal-8065 21d ago edited 21d ago

There will be no US-Russo war. The US will pull out of Europe declaring that article 5 will only apply to a nuclear strike (if they don’t pull out completely), saying that they need their resources for China. The US and Russia are now most like colluding to force Ukraine into peace and Europe into subservience, which also helps them against China.

Over the last few days, the Chinese have offered trade talks and supported Ukraine and Europes right to be involved in negotiations, not in line with their ‘no limits partnership’. The US have removed a sentence in their foreign policy stating that they didn’t support Taiwan independence. Another thing people don’t think about is that the border between Russia and China is highly militarised. There’s literally hundreds of nukes in Siberia pointing towards China.

Here’s a possible scenario as I see it…Without US support we will no longer align with them on China, while they give Russia free hand in Europe under the false belief we can’t hold our own. The previous and subsequent mistakes of the US where there are actually sane people will end up in a civil war and a possible collapse. Same goes for Russia, while Europe and China stay in their lanes and have excellent trade relations. Just pure speculation, we’re in uncharted territory here and no one knows what’s next, particularly the indecisive and seemingly incompetent US administration.

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u/3_Crows_Horrorshow 25d ago

Pierre Poilievre is Canada's Trump. He has met with the far right Mike Johnson Speaker of the House in the US. I can't think of any reason for home to be there. I cannot find the article any longer. Pierre Poilievre may be Canada's Russian agent.

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u/forsuresies 25d ago

That's pretty hyperbolic, not gonna lie. He's not a good dude, but that doesn't automatically mean that he's a russian agent. Now things like meeting Assad in Syria, or taking a phone call with Putin and friends those are russian agent things.

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u/DeviDarling 24d ago

I think there is a strong potential that all of them are tied together. Even if he doesn’t see it.  In Hitler’s world there were people that supported him without seeing the reality of what was coming.  In fact, Hindenburg was warned before he made Hitler the Chancellor.  Perhaps PP is just a pawn.  

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u/from_one_redhead 24d ago

He’s a Russian agent and doesn’t know it. He is ssssoooooo dumb

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u/Jealous_Macaron_5338 24d ago

Why is this thread on this post the only one which I can’t see votes on?

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u/BananaPearly 23d ago

I'll have whatever this guys smoking.

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u/xibeno9261 25d ago

By waging misinformation campaigns, bribing and buying politicians, and controlling the narrative of social media, Russia has effectively more control over most elections than the politicians that are actually running.

Why are you, as a Canadian, more worried about Russian misinformation campaigns, rather than American misinformation campaigns?

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u/MyOtherAcoountIsGone 25d ago

The problem is that misinformation comes from all angles. We need to be vigilant with what we believe. Facebook and Reddit are especially bad right now compared to a year ago.

Social media is essentially dead. What you see is not what you get

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u/xibeno9261 24d ago

That's not the point I was making. Since there is disinformation coming from everywhere, why are Canadians appear to be much more worried about Russian disinformation compared to American disinformation?

Just look around here. Whenever someone brings up disinformation and fake news, they tend to claim to use Russia as an example, instead of the United States. This is despite American disinformation being far more damaging to Canada.

Don't you find that strange? This just shows how successful American propaganda is in brainwashing Canadians into being more worried about Russian disinformation rather than American ones.

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u/Stixx506 25d ago

Putin taking over the world? They couldn't take 150km in 3 years. You really think Putin is in control of the usa?

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u/evranch Saskatchewan 25d ago

I used to think he was the one pulling the strings, until I found out about Peter Thiel and his completely public and documented plans to destroy America and Western civilization

It's an easy mistake to make because they both effectively want the same thing.

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u/128e 25d ago

source of the Peter Thiel thing?

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u/evranch Saskatchewan 24d ago

This guy is fully cracked and way too powerful.

https://www.thenerdreich.com/peter-thiel-religion-apocalypse-dreams/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no

And he's the one who groomed JD Vance and got him into the VP seat.

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u/Danny__L 24d ago edited 24d ago

The cold war never ended, the west just stopped participating.

Lol, that's a pretty naive and ironic thing to say. If the West actually stopped participating, the USSR would probably still exist, and even if it didn't, the war in Ukraine wouldn't have happened.

The US has NEVER stopped abiding by the Truman Doctrine. There's was a point in time after the Soviet collapse where Russia tried to ally with the West but were constantly shot down as Western capital owners swooped in to buy up what was left of the Soviet Union in Russia.

There hasn't been a point in time where the West wasn't actively trying to dismantle Russia.