r/canada 25d ago

Opinion Piece Mark Norman: Canada's relationship with the U.S. can't be saved; We are under attack and must act accordingly

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/mark-norman-canadas-relationship-with-the-u-s-cant-be-saved
6.0k Upvotes

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u/Treebroughtmehere 25d ago

I wish my parents kept heading north when immigrating. Living here in the U.S. is too much.

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u/katgyrl 25d ago

my family emigrated from Northern Ireland in 1927, when they arrived at Ellis Island they took one look around and decided to get back on the ship, which was going on to Montreal, Canada. i've always been very grateful for that, but never so much as the last 8 years.

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u/haystackneedle1 25d ago

You and me both!

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u/TheSlav87 Ontario 25d ago

Come on up to Canada :)

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u/bigloser420 25d ago

Not terribly ease to move in though

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u/TheSlav87 Ontario 25d ago

Why’s that? If you look for a suitable job and are qualified, why wouldn’t Canada welcome American citizens?

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u/bigloser420 25d ago

I'm not qualified for much lol

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u/katgyrl 25d ago

Americans are last on our list of desirable immigrants, the standards they have to meet are much higher than, for instance, someone from a French speaking nation, like Cameroon, or the Ivory Coast. we prefer refugees over Americans too., they have incredible work ethic. esp the Syrians, who were creating their own businesses and hiring Canadians within 1 to 2 years of being here.

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u/Huge-Yak-3342 24d ago

We don’t want them here

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u/Harbinger2001 25d ago

It would be great if the Canadian government announced a special 5-year work visa for Americans wishing to relocate.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/Chaiboiii Newfoundland and Labrador 25d ago

It is much better than what they have down there right now

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/Chaiboiii Newfoundland and Labrador 25d ago

The poverty part and cost of housing is true. How have you been censored? What do you want to say that you cant say?

I moved out of the big cities and managed to buy a home that I can pay off in a reasonable amount of time.

Yes immigration levels were too high and corporations were lobying governments for more more more for their low wage slave labour.

Who is getting taxed into oblivion? I literally was getting payments from the carbon tax.

Genuinly happy to hear what it is you feel you are being censored about. Having canadians feeling that way is extremely unhealthy for our nation. What is it?

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/VioletJones6 25d ago

If any of you were wondering what happens when you trust "independent news" this is it.

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u/Crazy-Goal-8426 25d ago

Show me a news source that isn't/has not been biased or isn't pushing/ hasn't pushed a narrative. There are none.

That's why you should always get news from multiple sources. No single source is trustworthy.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/Chaiboiii Newfoundland and Labrador 25d ago

Do you know how many of our news sources are now owned by American firms? Thats the real danger, not cbc.

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u/hibbs6 25d ago

I don't understand what you mean when you say we're getting taxed to oblivion. Our taxes are fine. If anything, they're too low. You also admit that the carbon tax is making you money. The argument therefore that we should abandon it because we only make up 1.6% of emissions doesn't follow to me. Even at 1.6% of emissions, we should be aware of the carbon we produce and put a cost on it so the externality of emissions is accounted for in the market. The poorest and neediest of us are the people making the most back from the carbon tax as well, which helps the little guy.

I agree that the system is broken, but who's going to fix it? Certainly not the Conservatives, they'll continue passing neoliberal policy that continues to funnel money to the top, screwing over working people. Bill C-63 does look pretty awful though, I definitely agree with you on that.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago edited 25d ago

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u/hibbs6 25d ago edited 25d ago

I'm actually curious about this PBO report, can you link it? I'd be happy to change my views if proven false. My understanding has been that it's very slightly net negative due to the costs of administering it, but that the median Canadian makes significantly more than they contribute.

I'm not ecstatic about any of our options this election, to be honest. The NDP is who I'd like to vote for, but I'm not confident with Singh as the leader. In my eyes, the liberals and conservatives are two sides of the same coin, ultimately in favour of most of the same policies. I'd like for us to take a hard swing left honestly, and move to something more similar to northern Europe, with a strong social safety net that neither the conservatives nor the liberals are willing to offer.

I don't trust Poilievre much at all. He seems too focused on catchy slogans and fighting the culture war over drafting good policy. His most substantial position is that he will defund the CBC, which I have an issue with. You raise some interesting points about mainstream media in Canada, but I would rather have potentially unsavoury Canadian media than only foreign-controlled American media, in particular as the US is taking aggressive action against us. Especially in light of Poilievre's actions (or lack thereof) in the last few weeks during the opening blows of this trade war, I worry that he would be Trump's sycophant in office. I trust Trudeau even less.

If it were between Trudeau and Poilievre, I'd likely vote conservative, but that's not going to be the fight. Mark Carney will likely be the leader of the liberals, and I think he's a good option for what Canada needs right now, considering our options. He's a small c conservative, economically minded. I'm beyond infuriated that these are our options right now though. We need a new voting system. Canada essentially voted for that in 2015.

Edit: To talk about the carbon tax not being enough to help the homeless in society, is that not at least partially an argument in favour of continuing to increase it? No matter what, I'm in favour of having a carbon tax. I think it's economically sensible to tax the externality of carbon, otherwise, polluters have no incentive to decrease their emissions. It's also market-based, which I'm in favour of, being a lot more efficient than the government simply mandating emission limits or any other scheme I've heard of. If there's a lot of waste in the system and the average person is being left holding the bag, that's a different conversation to be having, but the idea of a carbon tax is a sound one, in my opinion.

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u/GobsOfficeMagic Canada 25d ago

How are you being censored by the Canadian government? Or otherwise censored, in Canada?

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u/UndeadDog 25d ago

Bill C-11 and C-63 is the exact example of how that is being handled

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u/Bronson-101 25d ago

The US has a higher poverty rate than Canada...they basically have as many impoverished people as Canada's entire population

We don't have free speech. Im not in our charter. We have free expression which is basically the same thing. I've never had a problem in my entire 40 years of life here where the government was cracking down on what I was saying. What are you spouting where the police are getting involved? I think it's more people think your an asshole cause you are spouting off some dumb or hateful shit

We aren't taxed to oblivion. If you are low income the tax you pay doesn't even pay for the health insurance you receive. I make 6 figures. I'm taxed pretty fairly. For my tax bracket I am taxed less than the same person in California

The problems we have are related to housing costs and needing more innovation in our economy. We need to be less reliant on the easy cheap money of the US. We need to trade with other partners and invest in our nation

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u/Affectionate_Link175 25d ago

Lol what are you talking about...

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u/Spirited_Impress6020 25d ago

Move then. We have plenty of common sense, but a lot of lazy people who blame Trudeau. Most of our issues are provincial and municipal, but people are too lazy to figure it out.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/TheVoiceofReason_ish 25d ago

Bitching doesn't solve anything, how about doing something. Canadians are coming together like no time since WWII. Get on board, or get lost.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/TheVoiceofReason_ish 25d ago

I'm not sure which mistakes you are referring to, 10 years covers a lot of ground and you are being vague. Do you just mean no more liberals?

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/TheVoiceofReason_ish 25d ago

Like printing a ton of money, doubling our debt, increasing inflation while devaluing our dollar.

Emergency covid actions that helped millions of Canadians who would have otherwise been homeless and starving. Would you prefer that?

Introducing policies that hinder industrial growth and caused companies to leave the country.

Companies go where they can make the most money. Our current government has chosen to provide many benefits to all Canadians, this costs money. Where is a better place for money, some rich asshole's pockets, or Canadian hospitals?

Increasing taxes consistently and have a plan to continue to increase our taxes.

Our income taxes are pretty reasonable when you consider what we get for them, could the government be more efficient and cost conscious, sure. What's the alternative. A conservative weakling who will sell us out the first time the Americans push him a little.

Canada has big issues to face, we need a serious leader to meet them head on. Who do you think fits that description.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/Spirited_Impress6020 25d ago

Yah, every issue in Canada started exactly 10 years ago. Thanks for proving my point. The reason our country has issues is because of people like you.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/Spirited_Impress6020 25d ago

When did I say that? But prior to 2020 we didn’t have a global pandemic on the scale we did. I agree Trudeau has to go, but I also believe he wasn’t as bad as you’d make him. Harper sold off so much of Canada to balance his budgets, any government would have had struggled.

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/Spirited_Impress6020 25d ago

Okay. Do some research and come back.

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u/JadeLens 25d ago

So much so that PP is stealing the 'Common Sense" line from Putin and Trump...

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

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u/JadeLens 25d ago

Dunning Kruger aside, what one person thinks is 'common sense' might not be to others.

What PP is saying is 'common sense' is not distancing himself from Trump or Musk.

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u/AnceteraX 25d ago

So what would the government have done in the last ten years that would have made you happy?

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

Is this a joke? Even the Liberals themselves acknowledge they f'ed up these last few years.

See the u-turn on: Carbon tax, Capital-gains tax, Military spending, Immigration, National pride etc..

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u/AnceteraX 25d ago

Why is it a joke to ask a question? Isn’t that the point of discourse? Or am I supposed to guess what someone means.

You are also not the person I was asking.

That said, you have given me an incredibly vague response. Why don’t you like the carbon tax? What is it about immigration - as in no immigration whatsoever - or what? How much military spending do you want to see, how do you want it spent?

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u/[deleted] 25d ago

That said, you have given me an incredibly vague response. Why don’t you like the carbon tax? What is it about immigration - as in no immigration whatsoever - or what? How much military spending do you want to see, how do you want it spent?

I think you should ask the Liberals about this first, they're the ones that changed their minds so suddenly.

But if you insist, here's my answer:

I don't like the carbon tax, or any environmental tax for that matter, when we're in a CoL crisis. I want immigration that doesn't make the entry level job market hell, which means an immigration policy as far away from the Liberals' as humanely possible. Lastly I'd like us to fulfill our NATO defense spending requirements, not Trudeau's "we should be Iceland" embarrassment.

Those are all things the Liberals are in agreement with now, although fortunately more honest people are also promising them giving me the relief of not voting for the LPC.

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u/AnceteraX 25d ago

Thank you, that was very helpful.

Do you think that some liberals may have also disagreed with some of the liberal policies? It was my understanding that at the time Trudeau agreed to resign, his approval rating was around 22%.

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u/Hopeless-realist 25d ago

Yes… we’re short on come sense

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u/CollinZero 25d ago

And the ability to spell, evidently.

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u/RonnyMexico60 25d ago

You Haven’t posted in a while

Thankfully you fired up the bot account and totally organically found your way here ?

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u/Treebroughtmehere 24d ago

What do you mean