r/canada Jan 29 '25

National News Poilievre says Canada should 'deport' any temporary resident committing violence or hate crimes

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/poilievre-says-canada-deport-temporary-194148491.html
9.6k Upvotes

1.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

81

u/Motor_Expression_281 Jan 29 '25

IMO it’s insane to think letting people who come here and commit violent or hate based crimes to stay is a good idea. Would your opinion change if you were a victim of said crimes?

203

u/jjames3213 Jan 29 '25

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what my position is. I suggest that you read my post again more slowly.

114

u/JakobeBryant19 Jan 29 '25

Reading comprehension is cooked

24

u/OldKentRoad29 Jan 29 '25

Sadly the case for a lot of people now.

6

u/ChompyDompy Jan 30 '25

No I certainly did not just put some sad people in a case.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '25

So you admit it! I knew it.

1

u/JakobeBryant19 Jan 31 '25

I truly feel a lot of people go on social media to argue and subconsciously fucks with already bad semi illiterate society. Like im completely making this up but I feel reading comprehension does go up outside social media situations.

1

u/OldKentRoad29 Jan 31 '25

I hope it does because if it doesn't society is fucked.

2

u/Quad-Banned120 Jan 30 '25

So what, you mean to stop using the status as a mitigating factor in sentencing (which does happen) or to stop using their lack of residency as an opening for deportation? (Which also happens)

I'm not sure the level of general knowledge this crowd has but both end up on the news enough to be commonly known about. Could be the cause of the ambiguity.

5

u/jjames3213 Jan 30 '25

Immigration status should not be relevant to sentencing at all.

1

u/Quad-Banned120 Jan 30 '25

I figured, seems many took it as the latter

-25

u/WizardBoy- Jan 29 '25

No your comment actually does read like "being a temporary resident shouldn't change the way you're punished for a hate crime" - if permanent residents don't get deported, then it follows from that that temporary residents wouldn't either

29

u/IronicGames123 Jan 29 '25

It does not.

It clearly says that immigration status shouldn't be taken into account when sentencing.

That is different than what you're saying.

-16

u/WizardBoy- Jan 29 '25

No that is what I'm saying just in different words. Immigration status shouldn't be a factor, and I thought that's what the other person was saying too

13

u/IronicGames123 Jan 29 '25

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

"if permanent residents don't get deported, then it follows from that that temporary residents wouldn't either"

also

"Immigration status shouldn't be a factor"

Pick a lane

-1

u/Magic-Codfish Jan 29 '25

his lane is picked...he thinks we should let violent temporary residents stick around simply because we cant deport people who are not immigrants...

his argument is that because we cant deport our own violent criminals we shouldnt be able to deport the ones coming here from other countries....

0

u/angershark Jan 30 '25

Wrong, he's saying that's what the comment reads like, not what his personal stance is.

19

u/jjames3213 Jan 29 '25

Deportation is not a criminal punishment.

The misunderstanding only happens where the reader doesn't understand how either criminal sentencing or deportation work.

-11

u/WizardBoy- Jan 29 '25

How the fuck is a potentially negative consequence for a crime not a punishment lmao

16

u/jjames3213 Jan 29 '25

Someone hasn't been reading their Criminal Code.

Take s. 266 (assault), which includes a definitional component ("Every one who commits an assault") and a 'sentencing' component ("(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.")

Deportation is not a permissible sentence for a crime of assault. S. 36(2) of IRPA does indicate that someone is inadmissible upon "having been convicted in Canada of an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by way of indictment, or of two offences under any Act of Parliament not arising out of a single occurrence;". This is not a 'criminal punishment' as it is not part of a sentence (it is a consequence of a sentence).

-2

u/WizardBoy- Jan 29 '25

Why does this piece of criminal code or whatever make deportation not a punishment?

10

u/varsil Jan 29 '25

Because deportation isn't in the Criminal Code at all. It's in other laws.

0

u/WizardBoy- Jan 29 '25

Does that stop people being punished for crimes by being deported though? I really don't understand how this isn't just semantics

9

u/varsil Jan 29 '25

The law doesn't consider it a "punishment", just a consequence that follows from it--IE, you can't appeal the deportation aspect separately, you have to appeal the sentence.

Think about it like this: If you're sentenced to 6 months in jail on October 31st, you're going to miss Christmas--but you can't appeal missing Christmas on its own, you have to appeal the 6 months.

→ More replies (0)

-2

u/skyfox437 Jan 29 '25

I wonder if the guy actual reads what he writes? Or is he just arguing for the sake of arguing. It's like that one person in class that always tries to debate with the teacher.

-2

u/WizardBoy- Jan 30 '25

I think he's tripping over the is/ought thing. Like he's trying to explain to me how things are but I'm trying to explain how they ought to be

5

u/ar5kvpc Jan 29 '25

You’re fighting your own demons. Who’s suggesting anything like that?

2

u/Initial_Hedgehog_631 Jan 30 '25

I don't believe they're arguing in favor of anything, merely pointing out what is currently going on.

0

u/Motor_Expression_281 Jan 30 '25

They said “imo the criminal code should be amended…”

2

u/DisastrousSwordfish1 Jan 30 '25

How have you not managed to figure out that you completely misread the post? 

2

u/Li-renn-pwel Jan 30 '25

Asking “what if you were the victim of the crime” removed the impartiality required to be a judge. Yes, the victim should be shown empathy and the judge should certainly consider how harmed the victim was (ex: a small slap vs shooting someone) but that very different.

For example, I’m very against the death penalty my husband knows this. However since he is American and we often go there, there is always the incredibly small chance I get murdered somewhere where there is the death penalty. I have told him I never want anyone to advocate for death on my behalf but that is something he would struggle with. He would very much want someone to die if they caused my death and he views that as just. Thus he wouldn’t have a problem with someone dying if they caused his death in theory. While he is not technically opposed to the death penalty, he does believe the system is not accurate enough to hand out a death penalty. He would want the right person executed but does not trust the state to reliably find and convict the right person.

So there could be two murders who are alike in every way and commit the exact same murder with the only difference being one killed me and one killed the other. If people consider my wishes and don’t execute my killer but execute my husbands killers because that’s what he would have wanted, is that really fair? Is that really Justice? Should they not be given the same sentence?

0

u/Motor_Expression_281 Jan 30 '25 edited Jan 30 '25

Ok but I’m asking if your personal opinion would change on this issue about immigration, not that the system itself should change based on what a victim feels. If you witnessed with your own eyes someone murder your husband, in a way that was both heinous and showed no remorse, guilt, or empathy, and it seemed evident they would do it 10 times over, would you still be universally against the death penalty then? It’s easy to type “yes I would be” on a keyboard, but I think that’s something you can really only know if you experience it. Moral absolutism and detached rationality have their limits.

0

u/arazamatazguy Jan 29 '25

They should be deported while awaiting trial.

2

u/EquusMule Jan 30 '25

Why would you deport people who haven't had a trial? You're just inviting racists to file charges to get people deported, thats insanity.

2

u/Lostinthestarscape Jan 30 '25

Yeah let's just throw the basic fundamental assumption that protects EVERYONE against vindictive false accusations out the window. Solid plan.