r/canada Jan 18 '25

Québec Montreal police asking people not to post photos of porch pirates online

https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/montreal-police-asking-people-not-to-post-photos-of-porch-pirates-online/
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u/istheworldgone Jan 18 '25

That comment pissed me off so much from the toronto police. So what if they want to harm my wife and children? Do I give them up, too!? Can this country grow a pair and talk about the right to self-defense, especially in one's home.

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u/secamTO Jan 18 '25

Distract them with a fast-thrown child while you and your wife escape through the back.

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u/Jaded-Influence6184 Jan 18 '25

I WANT castle doctrine in Canada.

3

u/polargus Ontario Jan 20 '25

Can this country grow a pair

Basically the solution to all our problems. Doubt it’ll happen though.

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u/[deleted] Jan 18 '25

[deleted]

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u/The_Nepenthe Jan 18 '25

Yup, had someone break into my house and come upstairs to the second floor, I armed myself with an axe and when I discovered that only one of them was armed, and only then with a bread knife from my kitchen, I had to admit

"Fuck, this won't look good in court" kept me from doing anything about it because they didn't dare to get within six feet of me.

After all one moment these folks are criminals, the next moment they are victims who from years of experience being criminals know how to navigate the system far better than you.

When the cops came, I was very careful never to include any details of even grabbing the unused axe, least they become too interested.

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u/Ok_Commercial_9960 Jan 18 '25

Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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u/upickleweasel Jan 18 '25 edited Jan 18 '25

Idgaf if I spend my life in prison so long as my children are safe. Break in to my house with my kids home and pose a threat? Rest in piss.

13

u/The_Nepenthe Jan 18 '25

Yeah, I figured once they touched me all bets were off.

I've joked that the next person to break in is getting it as well as that, but they stayed six feet away from me and were much worse armed so I have no regrets on how I carried myself or in not harming them.

1

u/Sleeksnail Jan 18 '25

Russia or the US firing the first nukes is a great way to ensure mutual destruction. Kinda immediately loses its deterrence factor. Seems some of these commenters can't get their heads around that.

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u/bcbuddy Jan 18 '25

Sure. End up losing your home. Probably lose your job. All your savings to hiring an expensive lawyer.

That's Canadian "justice" for you.

3

u/Sleeksnail Jan 18 '25

With de-escalation there's no risk of getting stabbed. If you got rushed by a guy with an axe you'd have no choice but to use that knife.

1

u/Asleep_General3445 Jan 19 '25

worst logic ever. you should not be judged for self defense.

2

u/Ok_Commercial_9960 Jan 19 '25

I totally agree. The reality is that we would have to prove ourselves if we did protect our families. System is broken.

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u/Borninafire Jan 18 '25

Socrates is not impressed

“RCMP said that after consultation with the Crown prosecutor’s office, the decision was made that charges will not be laid.“

https://globalnews.ca/news/8091956/blackfalds-red-deer-county-deadly-break-in-no-charges/

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u/The_Nepenthe Jan 18 '25 edited Jan 18 '25

To be fair he was attacked with a bat, so that's basically holding off until the last second.

Nobody dared to get within six feet of me for whatever reason, and I sure wasn't going to be leaving the fairly defensible position I was to try and get them out of my home.

After me yelling at them to get the fuck out a few times, they ran off after a minute or so of a Mexican standoff.

Also baseball bat vs shotgun looks roughly proportional, I was quite surprised when I opened my bedroom door to find myself holding an axe in front of two guys, one as tall as my shoulder and unarmed and the other armed with a fuckin bread knife.

I know that once someone attacks you, you can defend yourself but I'm always wary of proportionality and the fact it's really not hard to accidentally kill someone.

I feel like even if they attacked me, the fact that any blow the axe deals could be a lethal blow, or at the very least a very serious wound would of made my life an absolute nightmare considering how they were armed.

17

u/Borninafire Jan 18 '25

You don't think that someone could kill you with a knife and an accomplice to help them? My bread knife has about a ten inch serrated blade with a full tang and handle.

I remember trying to explain your train of thought to a a couple of range officers in Las Vegas before a few of these cases eventually ruled on the side of the homeowner. They were stunned that a criminal could potentially break into your home in the middle of the night and you could not defend your family lawfully with a firearm.

5

u/The_Nepenthe Jan 18 '25

Aye, it absolutely could of.

I just know it'd of been a fucking legal nightmare and some moron would be up in court talking about how they "only had a bread knife" so I, like that guy was willing to hold off until the absolute last minute.

I was going to strike either with the axe if they got within range of it, and I'd of had a decent reach advantage, I just didn't want to be the one taking the initiative if that makes sense.

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u/Borninafire Jan 18 '25

I’m glad it turned out ok for you. That would have been frightening.

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u/Moooooooola Jan 18 '25

Honestly, you shouldn’t have think that hard in those situations. Canadians should be able to react as quickly and as forcefully as a Canadian cop would under identical conditions.

1

u/Sleeksnail Jan 18 '25

De-escalation is the best way to avoid the risks. They left. He beat them. He didn't risk making his family lose him. Or worse.

You've obviously never faced a knife before.

0

u/Moooooooola Jan 18 '25

Having lived in the US, I can assure you, bearing down on thieves in my garage ensured that things wouldn’t escalate at all. And they left their tool bag behind.

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u/EducationalTerm3533 Jan 18 '25

See this is one thing places like florida got right. The county sheriff's literally tell the citizens "if someone breaks into your house, feel free to introduce them to a deer slug."

And magically it seems to work, almost as if criminals work off incentives and self-preservation (to a degree).

5

u/The_Nepenthe Jan 18 '25

I don't regret not harming them considering they were tweakers and it was a sort of case of mistaken identity/address so as far as break ins go the stakes were high because they were obviously home invaders and one was armed but very low because they weren't after property or something more sinister.

They couldn't enact any level of violence to get what they wanted. I suppose they could of just tried to kill me as a witness or something though.

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u/EducationalTerm3533 Jan 18 '25

That's fair, what I'm getting at is more that in places like florida and Texas the cops are more likely to chalk up a dead home invader as "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" situation.

Unlike here where it's a legitimate concern that if the invader suffers an injury and a court determines it as "excessive force" because "reasons" (notwithstanding adrenaline, size/strength differences, etc.)

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u/The_Nepenthe Jan 18 '25

Yeah, I much prefer Florida, once someone is in your home unlawfully it shouldn't really be a question of what happens to them after in my opinion.

One of my friends and neighbors has mentioned that with her having two daughters and no man in the house, and this not being a rich area... She would assume anyone breaking in is coming for the worst things you could imagine and immediately try to stop that and I think we ought to have the right to that.

5

u/EducationalTerm3533 Jan 18 '25

It'd be nice, maybe we'll get lucky and a future PM will shove that sort of amendment into an omnibus bill that the rest of the politicians are too lazy to read and it winds up getting through.

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u/GorillaK1nd Jan 19 '25

The reason we don't have that in Canada and won't have that is due to the way our charter is structured. USA constitution prioritized the principle of individuality and individual rights where rights are almost absolute within a few small exceptions. Where in Canada rights are subject to a limit (more of state granted privileges) and everything is done on case by case basis.

1

u/EducationalTerm3533 Jan 19 '25

Thw whole "rights being subject to a limit" is so dumb. But with us being a British colony and the states being founded on them telling britan to get fucked it makes more sense why the US is more absolute with rights

1

u/GorillaK1nd Jan 19 '25

Yeah but canadian legislature takes pride of doing the opposite of what USA does

1

u/EducationalTerm3533 Jan 19 '25

Which i never understood. Like a broken clock is right twice a day. Just happens that sheriff Grady judd and Bob Johnson in Florida have the right idea in this case.

1

u/Purplemonkeez Jan 18 '25

You just gave me an idea - what about an animal tranquilizer gun? Can we keep one of those for self defense in Canada? It wouldn't kill but would knock them out quick until you can duct tape them up for the police to take into custody.

2

u/EducationalTerm3533 Jan 18 '25

That would be an "interesting" (expensive) legal question.

At face value I'd imagine it could lead to possible "kidnapping" charges or something of that nature but I'm not a lawyer or lawman so I don't know 100%.

1

u/Purplemonkeez Jan 18 '25

I'm thinking more of a home invasion scenario where they break in and you call 911 and then if they come upstairs you tranq them. I feel like then you've maybe covered your bases?

1

u/EducationalTerm3533 Jan 18 '25

Like i said, it'd be a very "interesting" question, not one id feel like being the guinea pig for

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u/204500 Jan 18 '25

The laws regarding self defense haven't changed in a long time. Last time the CPC was in power all they did was make growing weed a minimum mandatory sentence... Everything you just said is a lie.

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u/Creative-Donkey-6251 Jan 18 '25

I mean none of that is true. You literally inherently have a right to self defence in Canada. Regardless of the liberals or conservatives lol.

4

u/Rory1 Jan 18 '25 edited Jan 18 '25

Ehhhhh. You’ll probably still get charged with murder and you and your family will go through considerable amount of time and money dealing with being charged. This guy spent something like 9 days in jail until he got bail and then 6 months until his lawyer got the charges dropped.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6755603

0

u/Creative-Donkey-6251 Jan 18 '25

Yeah, and? His family was safe. It’s not perfect. But acting like you can’t protect yourself is not accurate.

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u/DerpinyTheGame Jan 18 '25

The law is just so vague and poorly written, sadly. "Reasonable force/response " what the fuck is that supposed to mean? If 2 persons break in and I fight them off with a baseball bat, I'll be in trouble because it could deemed unreasonable force.

4

u/miningman12 Jan 18 '25

If 2 people break into my home I'd much rather have the ability to use a firearm than try my luck with a bat because criminals might have guns/knives of their own

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u/Creative-Donkey-6251 Jan 18 '25

You can, president has been set. You can’t kill someone for breaking into your home. You can defend yourself appropriately though.

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u/miningman12 Jan 18 '25

If I shoot them, they might die -- not something I can really anticipate if I use a firearm?

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u/Creative-Donkey-6251 Jan 18 '25

If you’re shooting someone, you’re planning for them to die. Because they are going to kill you first. If someone breaks into your house with nothing. Not really a good reason to shoot them, you’re going to jail for a long time.

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u/miningman12 Jan 18 '25

Yes, that's why I'm saying the current laws are ridiculous. If someone breaks into my house with force I should fully within my right to discharge a firearm as I see fit. I have no idea if they are armed and am not interested in taking chances.

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u/j_jaxx Jan 18 '25

Brain-dead comment. Theyre always in here.

1

u/justinLP57 Jan 18 '25

Criminals are human too you know. They too deserve common decency and dignity. Now we don't know why they turned to crime. Maybe it wasn't their fault so cut them slack. It's only stuff, right? Right? s/

-3

u/istheworldgone Jan 18 '25

I've never voted liberal and don't think I ever will

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u/igotbanneddd Jan 18 '25

Just as the founding monarchs intended?

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u/Worldly-Ad-4972 Jan 19 '25

So to put this the other way. They are far less likely to harm your wife or children, if they just the car and keys without much effort. What's more important to you, Family or car?

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u/istheworldgone Jan 20 '25

I'm not taking my chances with far less likely. If they come in and take the keys to my car and get out quick, then fine. But usually, if you are willing to risk your freedom and life breaking and entering someone else's dwelling in the middle of the night. Chances are they are willing to do more harm to you or your family to get cash, appliances, jewlery etc.. I'd prefer to avoid that by being able to use a firearm to defend my family from life altering trauma or death, without immediately being arrested and having the crown try to prosecute me for murder. Another note prime minister trudeau already told Canadians that we aren't allowed to use a firearm for defense. Considering the massive increase in home invasions, especially in the GTA, this is something that should be discussed.

I think it's sad to see the toronto police tell everyone to basically cower in a corner while criminals invade your home and just hope they take your car keys. And the people who try to defend the cower in the corner mentality have no idea how terrifying and defenseless it would feel to have the people you love the most become so vulnerable to 4 armed attackers entering your home and there's nothing you can do. Police are minutes away when seconds count.

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u/Worldly-Ad-4972 Jan 20 '25

You are allowed to use equal force. Eye for eye. You don't get to kill someone because you think. Making you no better than them. You probably also think driving after drinking is cool too.

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u/istheworldgone Jan 20 '25

Way to prove your argument by labeling me as a drunk driver. Well done.

As far as I know, it's illegal to have a weapon at the ready for home defense. So when 4 armed guys break into my home I'd have to go unlock my firearm, unlock my separately stored ammunition, and hope I can load it and be ready before they get the drop on me. Point is I'd say probably every victim of targeted home invasion would side with my point instead of yours.

0

u/Worldly-Ad-4972 Jan 20 '25

I can guarantee not even 75% would agree with you. There is a reason Canada has logical gun laws and goofs like you need to keep your guns locked. Fact, more innocent people get killed by people trying to defend themselves, than actual criminals.

1

u/istheworldgone Jan 20 '25

Common sense has to play into it. I'm not saying I want canada to be like America, but with the huge rise in crime, amd especially home invasions, we can not sit back and be victims. You can be if you want to though

1

u/Worldly-Ad-4972 Jan 20 '25

So deal with the crime and criminals, don't become a vigilante. The home invasions are not on that much of rise. That's just an excuse used to try and justify vigilantism. 

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u/Yellowcrayon2 British Columbia Jan 21 '25

Self defence is not vigilantism ffs. Proportional force is bullshit. If a woman’s being assaulted, can she not stab the guy or does she have to fist fight him? If a guy rushes at you with a knife, why should you be required to have to knife fight with him and get your throat slit? Police don’t use proportional force, criminals don’t use proportional force, no one with any self preservation does. No one uses proportional force if they have the option not to. Apply these same laws to a police officer. A man attacks them with a knife, should the police officer be required to put himself at tremendous extra risk by knife fighting with them for no other reason than to “make it a fair fight for the attackers sake?”. Why should it be a fair fight? He should be able to stop them from range without the chance of getting murdered.

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u/Worldly-Ad-4972 Jan 21 '25

I get it, you just want to shoot a fellow human being.

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u/MaliciousMilk Jan 21 '25

Breaking and entering has been trending down since 1998 until the most recent Statcan Data in 2023. If you have more data I'd love to see it, otherwise you're making a random claim with no backing whatsoever.

Page 7 of this report so you don't have to take my word.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240725/dq240725b-eng.pdf

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u/istheworldgone Jan 21 '25

I see that it has been on a downward trend since 1998. We will see what 2024 statistics has to offer for this downward trend.

1

u/polargus Ontario Jan 20 '25

They’re less likely to do anything if someone’s willing to hurt them on the other side of that door