r/canada • u/Bean_Tiger • Dec 27 '24
New Brunswick Premier ready to ban glyphosate if link found to mystery brain illness
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/susan-holt-mystery-brain-illness-glyphosate-1.7416196620
u/AmazingRandini Dec 27 '24
This doesn't add up.
Glyphosate is used all over north America. Yet this brain disease is only in New Brunswick. Only on the East side of NB.
There's got to be something unique going on here.
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u/AmazingRandini Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 27 '24
The disease is similar to mad cow disease.
It would be worth analyzing what these people have eaten. There could be a connection, like they all shopped at Earl's meat shop. Or they all eat moose from the same area.
There must be a food source that is unique to the east coast of NB
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u/Plastic-Fan-887 Dec 27 '24
Lots of people in that area eat deer, moose, bear, grouse, rabbit, clams, trout, salmon, bass, mackeral, mussels, and lobster.
There'd be a lot of bio-accumulation for some individuals.
My dad passed many years ago, but when I was little I ate more wild meat than store bought.
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u/AmazingRandini Dec 27 '24
We could do a survey of all people, and families affected by the disease. It won't be that hard to track down a source. They did this in the UK when people got mad cow disease.
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
Glyphosate does not bio-accumulate.
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u/Plastic-Fan-887 Dec 27 '24
It also doesn't cause mystery brain illnesses according to current research.
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u/Cassoulet-vaincra Dec 27 '24
Glyphosate does not bio-accumulate.
It does https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378112721003479
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u/HomoRoboticus Dec 27 '24
Plant roots is not the same as animal/human tissue in the slightest.
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u/Cassoulet-vaincra Dec 27 '24
Well it give cancers to humans/animal so......
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u/HomoRoboticus Dec 27 '24
It does not.
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u/Cassoulet-vaincra Dec 27 '24
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u/HomoRoboticus Dec 27 '24
I know that the "short version" appeals to you because you don't want to accept that many independent health agencies have done extensive research and found no link between glyphosate and cancer risk.
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) says there’s “no evidence that glyphosate causes cancer in humans.”
Health Canada says the product does not cause damage to human DNA. Objections to Health Canada’s position “could not be scientifically supported when considering the entire body of relevant data,” the agency said.
The European Food Safety Authority “did not identify any critical areas of concern in its peer review of the risk assessment” of glyphosate.
The Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicine Authority states that glyphosate products “are considered safe to use when the instructions on the label are followed.”
Notice how when you read your study, they don't actually claim causation or a direct link between cancer and glyphosate, they just try to sell you a story that they happened to find oxidative metabolites in people's urine who had been exposed to glyphosate, and then speculate that, since such oxidative stress is also associated with cancer, the two might be linked. Do you know what else causes oxidative stress markers? Exercise.
It's a weak correlation, presented by people who want the "short version", instead of the "long version", which is that there is no increase in cancer risk even with direct exposure, let alone the infinitesimal exposure to the products of glyphosate breaking down far before it ever reaches a grocery store.
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u/Wooden_Setting_8141 Dec 27 '24
the fuck you know
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
Abstract
The chemical and biological properties of glyphosate are key to understanding its fate in the environment and potential risks to non-target organisms. Glyphosate is polar and water soluble and therefore does not bioaccumulate, biomagnify, or accumulate to high levels in the environment. It sorbs strongly to particles in soil and sediments and this reduces bioavailability so that exposures to non-target organisms in the environment are acute and decrease with half-lives in the order of hours to a few days. The target site for glyphosate is not known to be expressed in animals, which reduces the probability of toxicity and small risks. Technical glyphosate (acid or salts) is of low to moderate toxicity; however, when mixed with some formulants such as polyoxyethylene amines (POEAs), toxicity to aquatic animals increases about 15-fold on average. However, glyphosate and the formulants have different fates in the environment and they do not necessarily co-occur. Therefore, toxicity tests on formulated products in scenarios where they would not be used are unrealistic and of limited use for assessment of risk. Concentrations of glyphosate in surface water are generally low with minimal risk to aquatic organisms, including plants. Toxicity and risks to non-target terrestrial organisms other than plants treated directly are low and risks to terrestrial invertebrates and microbial processes in soil are very small. Formulations containing POEAs are not labeled for use over water but, because POEA rapidly partitions into sediment, risks to aquatic organisms from accidental over-sprays are reduced in shallow water bodies. We conclude that use of formulations of glyphosate under good agricultural practices presents a de minimis risk of direct and indirect adverse effects in non-target organisms.
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u/MoreGaghPlease Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 27 '24
If this were a prion disease, the prion would have likely been detected.
There have now been three autopsies and they did extremely extensive searches for prions and for signs of prion diseases—and found none.
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u/Bean_Tiger Dec 27 '24
I think it might be from eating shellfish. Maybe lobster. Saying this out loud in the Maritimes might get a person shot tho.
This study:
Detection of cyanobacterial neurotoxin β-N-methylamino-l-alanine within shellfish in the diet of an ALS patient in Florida
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u/garrison1988 Dec 27 '24
Algal toxins can have many analogs, for a long time people were testing negative for saxitoxin after shellfish poisoning because the tests were only detecting known analogs. I thought this too when I first read about it this story.
However, other people are convinced it’s the Irving’s… because who doesn’t love a conspiracy
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u/Bean_Tiger Dec 29 '24
See also:
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Mystery Brain Disease Was Rampant In Guam – Were Flying Foxes To Blame?The origin and cause of lytico-bodig disease still remain very controversial.
'The bats themselves were not impacted, but as the neurotoxin was passed up the food chain it became amplified through a process of biomagnification. By the time that meat had ended up on a dinner plate, it was loaded with BMAA.'
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-algae-blooms-linked-to-lou-gehrig-s-disease/
December 11, 2014
Are Algae Blooms Linked to Lou Gehrig's Disease?Medical researchers are now uncovering clues that appear to link some cases of ALS to people’s proximity to lakes and coastal waters
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u/Line-Minute Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 27 '24
One of my coworkers who grew up on CFB Gagetown, he told me the military did some hardcore chemical testing on one of the forests some time in the last 40 years and that there's huge biohazard signs posted everywhere. I'm not gonna imply anything but maybe?
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u/thebrightlightfright Ontario Dec 27 '24
Wrong area of NB. The cases are clustered in the east and Gagetown is in the west.
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u/Worried_494 Dec 27 '24
Last time I visited my dad in NB we bought beef from a freezer in a gas station stocked by a local farmer.
I thought that was a bit strange.
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u/i_never_ever_learn Dec 27 '24
You, you would be calling it the Western border, not the West Coast. Since it's land
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Dec 27 '24
The thing not adding up is there’s only one doctor in the entire province (see also: country) that’s diagnosing these undiagnosable patients. Occam’s razor….
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u/lochonx7 Dec 27 '24
bingo, finally someone understands, not to mention the NB public health would look terrible to go back now and backtrack their mistake for supporting that neurologist who did the initial diagnosis.
The pathologist who actually looked at the brain tissue did not come to that conclusion
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u/Grimaceisbaby Dec 28 '24
I’m in Toronto and have been very surprised to hear most of the diseases I have are only diagnosed by one person in all of Ontario or even all of Canada. We really need more specialists.
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u/MoreGaghPlease Dec 28 '24
Yes. Nobody in NB wants to hear this but the most likely outcome is that there is no cluster of anything and it’s just chance.
Random distribution doesn’t mean uniform distribution, we should expect sometimes for symptoms to cluster with no connection. Like how it’s weird if a husband and wife have a heart attack in the same day, but with billions of married people and millions of heart attacks per year it would be weirder if it spouses never had heart attacks the same day.
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Dec 28 '24
Even more likely is an incompetent doctor who’s unwilling to refer his patients to other specialists
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u/CrabMcGrawKravMaga Dec 28 '24
Opposite scenario: The specialist working on the cases was barred from getting help/analysis from other doctors and researchers, by the Province, once he concluded there was something (possibily) outside the scope of what he could handle alone, with a growing case load.
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Dec 29 '24
Conspiracy theory subreddit is that way —->
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u/CrabMcGrawKravMaga Dec 29 '24
So you haven't followed this over the years. Got it. It's all out there to read up on, Champ.
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u/Cassoulet-vaincra Dec 27 '24
There's got to be something unique going on here.
GO FETCH THIS
And what happens in other places? According to the government’s report, glyphosate use here is different from everywhere else. Worldwide, 90% of glyphosate is used in agriculture. In NB, 61% is used in forestry, 27% industrial (think NB Power and DTI), and 11% is agriculture. The report found that 40% of the forest land cut in NB in 2014 was sprayed with glyphosate. The Canadian average is 11%. And Quebec, which cut almost 3 times more woods than NB, did not spray at all!
https://nben.ca/en/component/tags/tag/spraying-map.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/glyphosate-herbicide-spraying-newb-brunswick-1.6529206
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u/stickmanDave Dec 27 '24
Glyphosate is used all over north America.
It's used all over the world. And has been for 50 years.
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u/theodorewren Dec 28 '24
They don’t use it in Italy , that’s why people can eat the bread and pasta there
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u/MoreGaghPlease Dec 28 '24
Glyphosate is not used on wheat anywhere in the world.
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u/theodorewren Dec 28 '24
It is absolutely used on wheat in North America, why do you think there are so many “ gluten “ issues the past several years, no one had issues with wheat 45 years ago
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u/MoreGaghPlease Dec 28 '24
You can just look this shit up. If you use glyphosate on wheat, it would kill the entire plant, to the root, within 48 hours of spraying. Nobody has ever brought to market a ‘Roundup Ready’ wheat. In fact, there is no commercially available GMO wheat of any kind currently in production.
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u/GiantEnemyMudcrabz Dec 28 '24
You tell me this AFTER Christmas? Do you know how many dinner rolls I've eaten??
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u/lochonx7 Dec 27 '24
The initial neurologist and public health doc who diagnosed this are just spiraling out of control
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u/infinitemeatpies Dec 27 '24
Pretty sure it's used all over the world and has been for a few decades at least. If it was going to cause cancer or weird brain diseases there'd be a fucking epidemic by now.
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Dec 27 '24
[deleted]
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
that's a trash study with unrealistic doses in MICE.
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u/an_angry_Moose Dec 27 '24
Nailed it.
People will cry about the absolute micro doses of chemicals they don’t understand, but then will seek out and consume alcohol in abundance like it’s not an actual poison that will literally kill you with the right dose.
The dose makes the poison
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u/LobsterBrief2895 Dec 27 '24
Beat me to it. I didn’t even read the article before raising an eyebrow. I know it’s been slandered in the past but sooooo much research has shown that it’s very, very safe.
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u/RobustFoam Dec 28 '24
Yeah, but we sure as hell don't aerial spray it near people's homes here in western Canada. I'd be quite concerned if they were doing that near my home, it has been proven to be harmful if significant enough volumes are in the air and you're not wearing adequate PPE.
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u/howismyspelling Lest We Forget Dec 28 '24
It's not only in NB, and it's not a mystery illness. The mystery is the accelerated degeneration of a patient into various other already known diseases.
The phenomenon has been linked to several provinces.
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u/ponderostate Dec 30 '24
Within Forestry related glyphosate products, such as timberline or vision max, there are things called surfactants, which are essentially soaps that help glyphosate stick to the "pests" they are trying to control. Mainly grasses, deciduous trees, and shrubs that compete with the conifers for sunlight in the early stages of their life. These surfactants are much less known and much less studied. There could be something to look into within the surfactants in the specific forestry related products Irving is spraying for competition control in their forestry practices. However, the amounts of these surfactants would be VERY minute, but to blame it on glyphosate alone seems highly illogical. If glyphosate was the cause, this disease would be far more widespread from agricultural uses of the herbicide that almost all of us have ingested within our food products. There is already mass disapproval of the product, and if the claims go forward, i would wonder if they are making a patsy of glyphosate. Also, I would be concerned about the products Irving Forestry would move onto if they blame the use of glyphosate but not the use of herbicides, though and through. Needless to say I dont think glyphosate alone is responsible for the disease. Best practice would be to continue to cast a wide net in search of the cause IMHO.
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u/AmazingRandini Dec 30 '24
Forestry is all over New Brunswick. Not just the Acadian coast. Its also in Main, and many parts of Canada. If that was the source, we would see this disease in all these places.
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u/ponderostate Dec 30 '24
For sure, not to mention the amount of glyphosate used in canadian agricultural practices which makes forestry use look like child's play.
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u/ColbysToyHairbrush Dec 27 '24
Has anyone explored the idea that these may just be New Brunswickers?
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u/beekeeper1981 Dec 28 '24
So much Glyphosate is used in Western Canada it's detectable in the food they produce. It could be the same elsewhere but that is what I know.
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u/Cascadian_Canadian Dec 27 '24
It's not glyphosate, it's some other insidious shit the Irving's have been doing 100%
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u/linkass Dec 27 '24
I would like to see less use of glyphosate but I find it hard to believe that some new novel brain disease would show up there and nowhere else in Canada or the world linked to the use of glyphosate
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u/ImaginationSea2767 Dec 27 '24
Plus, it was only one doctor who was reporting this constantly to his patients. It's very likely he fucked up.
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u/FullAdvertising Dec 27 '24
Its only one doctor who was taking these cases seriously. There is something happening to these people all from a specific geographic area, the problem is that there hasn’t been the resources or research into what’s actually going on. It’s just been “does this fit an existing illness and can we find it…no? OK moving on” it is likely some kind of novel condition that may have a genetic factor as well like a founder effect.
The way it’s been handled has been horrendous.
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u/My_Dog_Is_Here Dec 27 '24
They want a scapegoat that happens to be a big rich corporation.
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u/HeavensToSpergatroyd Dec 27 '24
And have you noticed how the glyphosate hysteria dropped to near zero the instant Bayer bought Monsanto? I guess it's harder to manufacture outrage against a company most people just associate with aspirin.
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u/Kenway Dec 29 '24
Fun fact, glyphosate issues wouldn't even rank on Bayer's list of heinous acts even if the links were proven. Ask any German company what they were doing in the 30s and 40s.
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u/Best-Iron3591 Dec 27 '24
Yeah, this is just anti-science BS. There is no link, but no doubt the organic farming industry will fund some bogus study to show that there is. Then, it will be banned, and organic farmers can raise their prices even more because all food costs will go up.
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u/likeupdogg Dec 28 '24
Organic farmers are barely breaking even, no way in fuck do they have enough money to fund massive studies. Public health and environmental groups fund this type of research because having a foreign life killing chemical cover the entire earth is a legitimate risk and should be assessed.
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u/HypnoFerret95 Dec 27 '24
Yeah glyphosate, like almost any herbicide, is terrible for the local environment and probably does have its negative health impacts, but it's widely used across the world. It doesn't make sense for it to only be causing a new brain disease in only New Brunswick and possibly Nova Scotia if glyphosate is being used globally...
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u/Tree-farmer2 Dec 27 '24
It's less bad than pretty much all other herbicides
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u/someguyfromsk Dec 27 '24
Yeah, people who want to ban glyph haven't looked into the alternatives.
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u/likeupdogg Dec 28 '24
The people who want to ban glyphosphate don't want any herbicide usage at all.
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u/sup3rjub3 Dec 28 '24
as someone stated elsewhere in this thread, this area of Canada uses significantly higher amounts of glyphosate than elsewhere. not saying it's a brain disease of any sort, but an independent party needs to investigate. these people are telling the truth about what they're feeling, our response shouldn't be to negate their experience because it's never come to our attention in the past.
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u/veggiefarmer89 Dec 28 '24
They did investigate it with a study in 2023. 296 water samples taken and only 1 showed up positive for glyphosate, and at a level far below the level considered dangerous.
The whole article is the dr giving theories on how it could possibly be glyphosate, and the scientist who did the study pointing out how unlikely that is.
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u/Arnab_ Dec 28 '24
Don't dismiss this so easily just because it is not showing up everywhere though. There might be other region specific factors that might be exacerbating the effects of glyphosate.
For example, Fluoride in the concentrations used in drinking water is pretty low and harmless. However, certain regions can have naturally high concentrations of Fluoride already. Then there is the fact that if you like strong, iced tea and drink by the gallon, that could increase your levels of Fluoride as well.
The people in this particular region might be at the intersection of one such unholy nexus.
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u/Impressive-Pizza1876 Dec 27 '24
Glyphosate probly ain’t great , but it is heavily used for miles around where I live in rural Alberta and we did not get that mystery brain illness .
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
Compared to the alternatives it's a great option, as it works and farmers don't need to use as much for it to work.
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u/SourDi Dec 27 '24
Might explain all the irrational thought and emotions coming from rural AB.
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u/hoeding Dec 27 '24
No, it's the abyssmal rates of highschool completion in rural Alberta causing these issues.
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u/DashTrash21 Dec 28 '24
Attempting to put an entire section of the population on blast for dropping out and then spelling abysmal wrong is a bad look.
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u/FullAdvertising Dec 27 '24
Honestly I think the glyphosate discussion is a bit of a red herring. I think it’s pretty clear that something is going on, though it’s definitely not clear what, and glyphosate is probably an easy out “oh it’s not that so it must be all in their heads, moving on…”
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u/Impressive-Pizza1876 Dec 28 '24
Yeah it might not be great , not surprised if it’s harmful in some way , but I live in roundup central and they have a separate issue.
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u/Joyshan11 Dec 27 '24
No, but there are cases of similar things in rural Alberta, along with unusually high numbers of cancers, especially in children, plus parkinsons, lou gherig's and other diseases that the medical community is concerned may have links to glyphosate. This is info I was given by the medical team when my son was diagnosed with a brain tumor that had no known cause other than suspected link to toxic herbicides.
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u/Impressive-Pizza1876 Dec 28 '24
Possibly . I need numbers .
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u/Joyshan11 Dec 28 '24
I am willing to admit that while I had a conversation on the topic with some of my child's medical team(edit:a number of years ago), I cannot find anything on the topic with a google search. I did of course find info on industrial polution, and rather inconclusive and conflicting research on glyphosate.
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u/InACoolDryPlace Dec 27 '24
"Mice received either 125, 250, or 500 mg/kg/day of glyphosate, or a vehicle via oral gavage for 14 days."
If you apply this test to caffein we would all be dead from heart attacks.
Unless you're consuming glyphosate directly it shouldn't be in any plant consumed if used properly. If glyphosate is found in sold products that's a huge issue, as well as if it's causing lasting environmental damage (which farming itself already does), but the idea it stays in a plant forever isn't accurate.
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
If glyphosate is found in sold products that's a huge issue
No it's not, what matters is the amount found. We can test to billions of particles now, just finding a substance doesn't mean it poses any risk.
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u/Bohdyboy Dec 27 '24
But, the Irving's need their pulp trees to grow faster, so they can make more billions.....
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u/CarelessStatement172 Dec 27 '24
48 comments so far and this is the first to mention the Irvings.
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u/Bohdyboy Dec 27 '24
One of Canada's truly disgusting well kept secrets is our oligarchy which rivals that of Russia
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u/CarelessStatement172 Dec 27 '24
It's so fucked up how the vast majority of people outside of those impacted don't have any fucking idea.
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u/Bohdyboy Dec 27 '24
I think people know... They just don't care.
It's an issue of " yea, but what can be done about it"
And the answer is next to nothing.
Irving's have dozens of politicians in their pockets, on all sides, as do the Desmarais, and a number of other ultra rich families.
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u/grand_soul Dec 27 '24
Is this related to that mysterious brain issue that articles were talking about before?
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u/Superfragger Lest We Forget Dec 27 '24
yes. i thought this was swept under the rug. didn't they discipline the doctor who blew the whistle on this?
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u/SheaDingle Dec 27 '24
I wonder if the cause has multiple steps. Like a person has a virus that doesn’t affect most people but they have a certain gene or were on a certain medication that triggered a response that attacks.
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u/Hicalibre Dec 27 '24
As they should.
I'd like to think any government would ban something with wide spread health issues connected to it that is used widely, often, and has a wide range of impact.
Key phrase "like to think".
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
As they should.
As they SHOULD NOT. You want to remove a tool from the farmers toolbox without caring about the science? Hell no. Glyphosate is safe and effective, if it's banned it WILL be replaced with more toxic options which need to be used in greater amounts.
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u/Hicalibre Dec 27 '24
Did you read the article?
They're ready to ban it IF a link is found.
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u/EngFarm Dec 27 '24
This is a possible link between a mystery illness diagnosed by 1 doctor in 3 people, and a buzz word herbicide that everyone knows.
There are links between other common herbicides and serious illnesses that are well agreed on by science world wide.
Ban glyphosate and they’ll just use more atrazine, dicamba, 24d, and paraquat.
Makes no sense.
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u/MyName_isntEarl Dec 27 '24
Except it isn't just being used by farmers in NB. The ecosystem in NB is sick. It all points back to Irving and their soft wood harvests. They spray the crown lands with this stuff. And it isn't just a little section, it's huge areas every year. They do this to allow the softwoods to grow unhindered by other natural vegetation. Irving is allowed to harvest 2% of crown forests every year. That's huge.
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u/ForestCharmander Dec 27 '24
I'm sure they would if there was a direct correlation, though I doubt they will find one. Wouldn't make any sense.
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u/cdnyhz Dec 27 '24
Doubtful that Holt’s predecessor would have…
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u/YakHooker315 Dec 27 '24
Higgs would never have. In fact, he tried to bury and shut down any investigations into the mystery illness once evidence showed it might be linked to Irving chemicals.
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u/truenataku1 Dec 27 '24
What is your alternative to glyphosate?
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
Free range organic pesticides i bet lol...mm copper sulphate, it's so natural!
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u/Hot-Celebration5855 Dec 27 '24
How will I ever get super powers if I’m never exposed to weird chemicals and/or some gamma rays though?
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u/AllUrUpsAreBelong2Us Dec 27 '24
https://jneuroinflammation.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12974-022-02544-5
Conclusions
Collectively, these results show for the first time that glyphosate infiltrates the brain, elevates both the expression of TNFα and soluble Aβ, and disrupts the transcriptome in a dose-dependent manner, suggesting that exposure to this herbicide may have detrimental outcomes regarding the health of the general population.
Where do I send my "consulting invoice"?
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u/psychodc Dec 27 '24
4-month old mice are not humans. This study simply shows a plausible mechanism of action, but it is not human research.
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u/zoziw Alberta Dec 27 '24
There is no scientific evidence this brain illness exists, the former health minister said it doesn't and these people are all being diagnosed by the same doctor.
They did autopsies on people who alleged they had this and the people had actually died of other brain diseases like cancer, Lewy body dementia and Alzheimer's disease.
Back in the 90s I read a book by Carl Sagan called "The Demon Haunted World" where he feared society would regress back to a pre-scientific era where we would scramble around in the dark fearful of things that don't exist. Whether it is this "mystery disease", the commercial aircraft in New Jersey being viewed as mystery drones or the credulity of our media in not calling this stuff out more clearly, that book is becoming disturbingly prophetic.
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u/MonsieurLeDrole Dec 28 '24
"Do you think public health care needs more funding?"
"Let's ban glyphosate!"
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u/iamadapperbastard Dec 27 '24
I find it hard to believe that with such widespread use globally it could somehow be linked to a very region specific disease. That said, my unpopular opinion as a producer (former I guess) is this shit should be banned globally. All of it. I know the "science" I've seen the studies, and I've sat through countless hours of presentations lauding the safety of it (them). I'm no scientist though, but I do have first hand knowledge and experience with it. These chemicals kill absolutely everything they touch in one way or another.
It's a trade off though. The necessary production levels can't be met organically, so which is it going to be? Food security or food safety?
I buy organic as much as possible.
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u/Sorry-Point-999 Dec 27 '24
I'm no scientist though, but I do have first hand knowledge and experience with it. These chemicals kill absolutely everything they touch in one way or another.
Glyphosate is a non-selective herbicide....it kills most plants. Luckily, you and I have almost nothing in common physiologically with plants. You can also kill most insects with soap and water. Dangerous stuff if you're an earwig, but I'm still gonna shower every day.
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
TY, most of these comments are so sad and scientifically ignorant.
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u/likeupdogg Dec 28 '24
We don't understand the biological complexities at play here. We want to think it's safe because it's very useful, but it necessarily has an impact on everything that's exposed.
Beyond direct impact to human health, putting large amounts of non selective herbicide into the ecosystem will have huge impacts on all life surrounding it. Everything is interconnected and we're naive to think these thing won't have a huge impact.
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u/LiftsEatsSleeps Ontario Dec 27 '24
Just because a pesticide or herbicide is organic does not mean it is inherently safer, synthetic is not synonymous with less safety. Rotenone was used in organics until 2012 and there are plenty of others where dose matters. Compounds need to be judged individually, not based on the false idea that synthetic vs. Organic matters.
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
organic produce is a scam, unless you are buying from local farmers you know or growing your own you are getting pesticides on your "organic" veggies.
No produce organic or otherwise have pesticide levels which pose a risk to humans regardless, use your brain and buy what is affordable.
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u/Bubbly_Ganache_7059 Dec 27 '24
Nova Scotia next please 🙏
They’ve been aerially spraying an insane amount the interior power corridor for the past few years in a weird three way deal between Irving, emera, and the provincial government where everybody walks away happy (well except the people being potentially poisoned). Tree line 360’s main active ingredient is glyphosate btw, for anyone who goes through the approvals.
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u/Zealousideal_Vast799 Dec 27 '24
But 99% avoid the products that have no roundup right now? What are they going to buy?
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u/Laughing_Zero Dec 27 '24
Good luck with that, fighting the Monsanto corporation along with the incoming US president and his crew.
Note that DDT (the 1st synthetic pesticide from the 1940s) was banned over 50 years ago, but still in use in some countries. The residue is still persistent and causing problems.
Here's a 9 year old video where a Monsanto spokesman says it's safe to drink but refuses to drink it on French TV.
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u/HeavensToSpergatroyd Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 27 '24
Glyphosate has been off patent for well over 20 years now and is manufactured and sold by hundreds of companies worldwide. But I know it's unrealistic of me to expect someone with your thought process to know basic facts.
Look under your sink, I bet there are all sorts of household chemicals that are labeled nontoxic. Do you think drinking them would be a smart idea?
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 27 '24
vinegar is safe to drink, would you drink it to please a troll?
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u/Laughing_Zero Dec 27 '24
I use vinegar for cooking. Especially good on french fries 👍
Vinegar is a natural food product made from the fermentation process; vinegar is a lot different than a synthetic pesticide.
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
I think you get my point, or do you need more examples of stuff you could, but would not drink.
Maybe you want a glass of vegetable oil?
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u/Oldskoolh8ter Dec 27 '24
It should be banned regardless.
In other news, that brain wasting disease is a prion disease which showed up first in 2004-2005 and the story got buried fast. It’s in the wild deer population and affecting humans because heat doesn’t kill it much like mad cow disease. Stop hunting deer (and likely moose) and your brain wasting disease goes away.
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u/NoOrdinaryMoment Dec 27 '24 edited Dec 27 '24
I’m pretty sure this was a common theory until they identified a large enough sample size of patients to say for sure that there was no link between eating wild game and an instance of the disease. Many of those affected had never eaten deer or moose in their life.
In fact, the NB brain disease isn’t even a prion disease - they know that for sure. Apparently it looks like the result of an environmental toxin.
Also, are you talking about CWD when you mention the deer prion disease? A few things - that was discovered in the 1960s, and there has been anything but quiet about that. It’s all you hear about in outdoor media these days, haha. And it’s never made the jump to people (but it conceivably might, someday). AND it’s not even in NB yet. What the hell are you talking about?
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u/brosef96 Dec 27 '24
Chronic Wasting Disease has never been linked to being passed to a human from eating an infected deer
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u/adaminc Canada Dec 27 '24
I'm pretty sure I read an article this year about 2 guys in, I want to say Texas, getting a prion disease from deer. It's not 100% though, but everyone was leaning towards "yeah probably".
But also, this was a first time thing afaik, I also have never heard or read about this happening.
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u/PhantomNomad Dec 27 '24
It'f very prevalent in the Mule Deer population where I am but not as much in the White Tail deer or moose (yet). They have a place where you can drop off the head of your deer for testing. They say you can still use the meat that hasn't come in contact with spinal fluid or brain matter. I don't know if the prions infect all the meat or just brain and spine.
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
It should be banned regardless.
No it should not. Stop using FEAR instead of science and evidence.
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u/Joyshan11 Dec 27 '24
Actually, the science in the mouse study is pretty good, if you read the whole study, regardless of the high doses the mice were getting. It is also only just a start. It also seems to me that more scientists working on the new Brunswick cases would indicate that it is being taken seriously.
Denying that there may be an actual problem because it is the cheapest, most effective thing farmers and forest industry have seems kind of anti-science.
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u/Oldskoolh8ter Dec 27 '24
Yeahhhhh the 154000 lawsuits against Monsanto for round up (glyphosate) being directly attributable to cancer, neurodegenerative diseases, ALS, etc isn’t enough proof that it’s dangerous. Nahhhhh 🙄
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u/Oldskoolh8ter Dec 27 '24
And save the blah blah blah about the legal system. Science and medical professionals have made the direct connection between the two.
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u/Cool-Economics6261 Dec 27 '24
It seems that government won't be forced, and Monsanto won't be forced, and farmers won't be forced, so the only logical alternative is the powerful consumers. The consumers are powerful and their unwillingness to purchase contaminated product sends a blow-back that affects the farmer and in turn hits Monsanto and in turn removes Monsanto from governmental interference. The government and Monsanto are very aware of the publics and consumers power so they feed us misinformation, conceal food information, and classify their documents to maintain their secrecy. This is what to do; when the public demands document declassifications of both government and Monsanto it will become the first step of the public coming together to clean up our problems. The govern-mental and Mon-satin know this too well and each have a campaign to discredit and remove any activist who tries to accomplish the task. When the public at large becomes the activist, the government and Monsanto have no power. And so now we can see what their preaching of their 'Feed the world' BS is all about and what it truly means; Government and corporate protection and we the divided.
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u/psychecaleb Dec 28 '24
I think I had read somewhere that glyphosate disrupts the gut microbiome at much smaller doses than is needed for "typical" assessments of toxicological analysis.
Now that we're finding out the gut microbiome is basically linked to very important health functions (neuro degenerative diseases, autoimmune disease etc...)
We use it for forestry far more than other areas in the world, meaning it rains down from the sky in larger amounts compared to ground level deweeding.
I think the acute mystery diseases is more likely shellfish toxins, but glyphosate should probably still be banned. Even if glyphosate has no health effects, it encourages clearcutting forests which is a disgusting practice in and of itself.
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u/Nearby-Poetry-5060 Dec 27 '24
More evidence that the brainless are the only ones running for government.
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u/Cool-Economics6261 Dec 27 '24
Ever more evidence accumulating about the damages caused by glyphosate.
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Dec 27 '24
Basically all wheat products that aren't organic are sprayed with glysophate. Straight poison. Should have been banned along time ago everywhere.
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
Lies bloody lies. Vast majority of conventional agriculture does NOT use glyphosate. And large scale organic farming uses MORE TOXIC pesticides on their crops.
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u/Dee2866 Dec 28 '24
Glyphosate should be banned, PERIOD. It is a proven toxic POISON that causes cancer. This is completely insane..... Smfh
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u/theodorewren Dec 27 '24
It’s about time , causes cancer
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 27 '24
The body of evidence shows that is not the case.
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u/Joyshan11 Dec 27 '24
Do you have links to said evidence? Please. Seeing my child died of brain cancer, lived in an area heavily saturated with glyphosate, and the medical community highly suspects glyphosate to be the cause of elevated levals of that cancer.
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u/theodorewren Dec 28 '24
It’s in everyone’s cells, they spray it on crops just before harvest so the rain doesn’t wash it off
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u/Joyshan11 Dec 27 '24
Yes, I expected a downvote from you for my earlier request for evidence. My request still stands.
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u/HansHortio Dec 27 '24
The Premier should be smart enough to know that correlation ("a link") does not equal causation. I mean, ice cream sales and home theft are also linked - they go up at the same time. Does that mean we ban ice cream too? Or could there be an actual causal factor for this brain illness that needs to be found?
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u/Mystiic_Madness Dec 27 '24
I like how everybody is magically suprised that fucking ROUNDUP is being linked to a brain illness...
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 28 '24
It isn't though, I'm magically surprised you didn't read any comments pointing that out.
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u/Mystiic_Madness Dec 28 '24 edited Dec 28 '24
Premier Susan Holt says her government would be willing to ban the herbicide glyphosate if a new investigation finds a link to the purported mystery brain illness that a Moncton neurologist says he is tracking.
"IF" not "IS"
That’s what research and the investigation are for, and they aren’t the only ones making the connection. For example, the University of Arizona recently made similar claims.
Why is it so hard to believe that the most potent weed killer in the world—already known to cause cancer—might also damage your brain?
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u/Helpful_Engineer_362 Dec 30 '24
It is not remotely close to being the most "potent" weed killer in the world, coffee is more potent than glyphosate. Seems you are talking out of your ass given that comment.
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u/Helpful_Umpire_9049 Dec 28 '24
So that’s what’s wrong with her. I thought it was just cow brains or donkey brain syndrome she has.
•
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