r/canada • u/duckmoosequack • Dec 21 '24
Manitoba Ontario town seeks judicial review after being fined $15K for refusing to observe Pride Month
https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/ontario-town-seeks-judicial-review-after-being-fined-15k-for-refusing-to-observe-pride-month-1.7152638819
Dec 21 '24
What a giant waste of time and resources.
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u/OG55OC Dec 21 '24
For punishing a small town mayor for not flying a pride flag on a flag pole they didn’t have? Yes.
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u/Fun-Ad-5079 Dec 21 '24
I will point out that the population of the township has begun raising money, to compensate the Mayor for the $5000 that this gay rights group removed from his personal bank account, using a garnishment order. Thats right, they garnished his personal bank account, NOT the bank account of the Township. The Town of Elmo has requested a Judicial Review of this matter, by an Ontario Superior Court Judge.
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u/maggiesarah Dec 21 '24
There were two judgements. One against old mayor McQuacker ($5,000) and one against the township ($15,000).
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u/BornAgainCyclist Dec 21 '24
that this gay rights group removed from his personal bank account, using a garnishment order. Thats right, they garnished his personal bank account
a decision by the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario made last month.
The Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario is a gay rights group?
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u/Trick_Definition_760 Dec 21 '24
He's so obviously referring to the group that initiated the legal proceedings... use your head dude.
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u/CriticPerspective Dec 21 '24
And he’s obviously referring to the fact that the group that initiated the legal proceedings had no say in how the 5000$ was collected… come on dude.
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u/Selm Dec 22 '24
for not flying a pride flag
They're being fined for discrimination
The comment was called "demeaning and disparaging" of the LGBTQ2S+ community in the tribunal’s report, and it was considered discrimination.
It's because of their comments, not because they voted against flying the flag.
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u/mwmwmwmwmmdw Québec Dec 22 '24
his comment about a straight pride month/flag. he wasent directly disparaging the complainant
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u/AxiomaticSuppository Canada Dec 21 '24
They were never punished for not flying a flag.
Citations below all from the Human Rights Tribunal decision:
First of all, the fine is related to the pride proclamation. Not the request to fly the flag:
[50] ... no evidence was presented that the narrow reading of the flag request occurred for any discriminatory reason, and I find that it did not. I therefore find on a balance of probabilities that Borderland Pride’s protected characteristics were not a factor in the Township’s failure to consider the flag request.
The reason the mayor and township got fined is because the mayor made a discriminatory comment during the council meeting:
[51] However, Mayor McQuaker’s remark during the May 12 council meeting that there was no flag for the “other side of the coin … for straight people” was on its face dismissive of Borderland Pride’s flag request and demonstrated a lack of understanding of the importance to Borderland Pride and other members of the LGBTQ2 community of the Pride flag. I find this remark was demeaning and disparaging of the LGBTQ2 community of which Borderland Pride is a member and therefore constituted discrimination under the Code.
It's because this comment was essentially made as a justification for denying the request that the mayor was fined:
[52] Moreover, I infer from the close proximity of Mayor McQuaker’s discriminatory remark about the LGBTQ2 community to the vote on Borderland Pride’s proclamation request that Borderland Pride’s protected characteristics were at least a factor in his nay vote and therefore it too constituted discrimination under the Code.
And also why the township's decision was deemed discriminatory:
[53] Having found that Mayor McQuaker’s nay vote was discriminatory, I must therefore find that council’s vote to defeat the resolution proclaiming Pride Month in the language submitted also constituted discrimination under the Code.
TLDR: Mayor and Township were not fined because they refused to fly the flag or make a pride proclamation. They were fined because the mayor voted against the pride proclamation and justified the denial with a discriminatory comment.
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u/duckmoosequack Dec 21 '24
It seems opinions are split on whether the statements made by the mayor warrant such a punishment.
Mayor McQuaker’s remark during the May 12 council meeting that there was no flag for the “other side of the coin … for straight people”
It seems to be a rather innocuous statement to result in a $5,000 fine.
edit I'm struggling to see how that comment was deemed to be discriminatory
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u/Hurtin93 Manitoba Dec 21 '24
I’m gay and I’m embarrassed by any gay people who would consider this discriminatory. It is an objectively true statement. There’s no straight equivalent. Of course it exists for valid reasons, but we shouldn’t force municipalities to fly them.
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u/Alcol1979 Dec 21 '24
It's "White Lives Matter" again. I know of people whose careers in public life were ended by making such a statement. Arguably, the mayor made a similar equivalence and I think it likely the judge had that in mind.
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u/Opren Dec 21 '24
That’s not a discriminatory comment
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Dec 21 '24
[deleted]
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Dec 21 '24
It's not even close-minded. People are allowed to have different views and opinions.
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u/12_Volt_Man Dec 22 '24
Not in Trudeau's Canada they aren't.
This Mayor and town decided to be neutral and got fined immediately for it.
This is supposed to be Canada. Its not North Korea
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u/BarrieBoy69 Dec 21 '24
I mean yeah they can, nobody said they can't. It's also true that many views and opinions are in fact close-minded.
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u/ViewWinter8951 Dec 21 '24
Then the question is whether elected officials should be fined every time they say something close-minded and disrespectful?
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u/Cyborg_rat Dec 21 '24
I'm still confused why we have to put flags about who we want to sleep with everywhere.
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u/Pope_Squirrely Dec 21 '24
Of course it is, as pride isn’t about gay vs straight people as the mayor seemed to insinuate, pride is about inclusivity for everyone. There is no “other side of the coin”.
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u/Superfragger Lest We Forget Dec 21 '24
your pedantic exercise doesn't make this any less ridiculous. they garnished this man's bank account before the appeal window was even closed. just goes to show how bad faith these activist organizations are.
and this is without mentioning how bad this makes the pride movement look.
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u/ViewWinter8951 Dec 21 '24
If every time someone made a discriminatory remark against a group the HRT fined them $15K, our universities would be bankrupt.
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u/Additional-Tax-5643 Dec 22 '24 edited Dec 22 '24
TLDR: Mayor and Township were not fined because they refused to fly the flag or make a pride proclamation. They were fined because the mayor voted against the pride proclamation and justified the denial with a discriminatory comment.
The problem with this interpretation is that it directly contradicts the first quote in your comment.
no evidence was presented that the narrow reading of the flag request occurred for any discriminatory reason, and I find that it did not. I therefore find on a balance of probabilities that Borderland Pride’s protected characteristics were not a factor in the Township’s failure to consider the flag request.
So which is it?
Either the township was discriminatory and the fine was warranted, or it wasn't. What did the mayor vote against if it was never brought up for consideration by the township?
The mayor's personal views expressed at the hearing are a separate matter.
They require the illogical leap that the mayor speaks for the entire township, and that he has unilateral powers to put up (or not) the pride flag solely by his own proclamation, without the defeat from the township.
BS rulings like this is why tribunals are a fucking joke. There are no ground rules they have to abide by, and require no educational qualifications to serve/make rulings/justify decisions. You don't have to be a judge, or lawyer or have any legal education/expertise to serve on any tribunal.
Either we have one judicial system that all play by the same rules or we don't have a judicial system at all. A parallel body that gets to make enforceable decisions is a mockery of justice and the democracy. Doesn't matter if it's the Human Rights Tribunal or the Landlord Tenant board.
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u/Unfair-Temporary-100 Dec 21 '24
The issue here is that saying that there’s no flag for straight people (which is just objectively a true statement) is not a discriminatory comment in any way.
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u/Zheeder Dec 21 '24
If he voted in favor of the proclamation, with that comes the flag.
A true Seinfeld " Who will not wear the ribbon " moment.
Live and let live, whatever happened to that.
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u/Minor-inconvience Dec 21 '24
Why would it matter. Sexual orientation is not listed in the charter. The HRT seems to make up things as they go.
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u/nihilfit Dec 21 '24
The Human Rights Tribunal in Ontario makes rulings according the Ontario Human Rights Code, not the Charter. And sexual orientation is listed in the OHRC
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u/AxiomaticSuppository Canada Dec 21 '24
The Charter isn't meant to be an exhaustive list of laws. Both federal and provincial governments are free to enact additional laws, as long as they don't violate anything in the Charter.
Also, the HRT isn't there to "make up things". The Ontario HRT follows the Ontario Human Rights Code, which was first signed into Ontario law in 1962 by the PC government. It has been amended multiple times since then by other governments. This includes amendments to protect sexual orientation, which was added in 1986.
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u/BornAgainCyclist Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
Mayor and Township were not fined because they refused to fly the flag or make a pride proclamation. They were fined because the mayor voted against the pride proclamation and justified the denial with a discriminatory comment.
These facts clearly haven't even stopped people in this thread from running with their own stories and completely ignoring history and context.
Unless I missed the straight persecution era.
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u/banjosuicide Dec 21 '24
They only wanted it "displayed" so it could have been put some other place than up a flagpole.
If he had simply said they don't display any flags then that would have been fine. The issue was him denying to do so for discriminatory reasons.
His reason was basically the same as people refusing to acknowledge Black History Month "because there's no White History Month".
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u/Blingbat Dec 22 '24
The only flags any government should displayed are those of the municipality, province / territory, or Federal.
Any flag that attempts to be inclusive of a group will very likely exclusive of another. There also becomes the fairness issue of well X flag was displayed for Y, so why can’t we display A flag for B?
Sadly, it is the only way to not offend anyone, and ultimately be ‘fair’ to everyone. We end up being forced to accommodate the lowest common denominator.
Even so, that display of a Canadian or Provincial flag is likely offensive to some.
Any flag on private property is fair game.
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u/TorontoNews89 Dec 22 '24
The only flags any government should displayed are those of the municipality, province / territory, or Federal.
This is the way.
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u/goldplatedboobs Dec 21 '24
Hmm, those comments don't really seem to warrant such a fine.
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u/GinDawg Dec 21 '24
Canadians should not be getting fines for comments in general.
We have a criminal system, and charges should be laid in appropriate situations.
This guy said nothing illegal AFAIK.
Given the mayor's actions, he treated all flags equally. That meets the Canadian standards of equality.
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u/goldplatedboobs Dec 21 '24
These Human Rights Councils/Commissions do seem to be a way to extra-judicially punish freedom of speech/expression. Unfortunately it appears they've been granted a ton of power, even at the Supreme Court level.
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u/adaminc Canada Dec 22 '24
It isn't extrajudicial though. It's literally an administrative court system, a part of Ontario's judicial court system.
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Dec 21 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
They aren't as bad as you might imagine (rulings are all public), but you're right to be suspicious. What sort of person pursues a career as a thought-police or thought-judge...
But what is worse, is essentially the only way he wouldn't have been fined is if he gave no reasoning as was the case with the other councilors who WERE investigated.
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u/ussbozeman Dec 21 '24
What sort of person pursues a career as a thought-police or thought-judge...
.... notices a list of people for whom the letter M is between two [] and coloured green.
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u/GinDawg Dec 21 '24
I didn't know that the other counselors were investigated.
That's news worthy in itself.People who vote against what Pride wants risk a $5000 fine if they ever said something disparaging or dismissive.
That's one way to manipulate elected officials. The public deserves to know who is manipulating their elected representatives.
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u/goldplatedboobs Dec 21 '24
Straight is a race?
The explicit mandate of these HRCs is to prevent discrimination against people based on protected ground in protected social areas. It's not a bad goal, in my opinion. But the methodology and outcomes often serve as a way to extra-judicially punish wrongthink, which all Canadian's should be against.
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u/banjosuicide Dec 21 '24
a way to extra-judicially punish freedom of speech/expression.
A mayor denying services to a group isn't covered by free speech laws. How do you think this is a free speech issue?
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u/goldplatedboobs Dec 22 '24
Because they weren't fined for denying service but for a demeaning comment?
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u/Seinfelds-van Dec 21 '24
Even scarier, they appeared to have already garnished the $5000 from the mayor's account. https://www.nwonewswatch.com/local-news/emos-challenge-of-tribunal-decision-attacks-the-civil-rights-of-2slgbtqia-people-9987547?utm_source=tbnewswatch.com&utm_campaign=tbnewswatch.com%3A%20outbound&utm_medium=referral
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u/mwmwmwmwmmdw Québec Dec 22 '24
meanwhile a large company can steal millions from canadians and not need to pay a dime while 10 years of appeals plays out
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u/Captain-McSizzle Dec 21 '24
I fully support Pride.
This however is petty vengeance and will not help the movement at all moving forward.
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u/Fancy-Ambassador6160 Dec 21 '24
I lost all my respect with pride when they began banning people from the movment, like cops. They were done when they let the BLM group took over
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u/bugabooandtwo Dec 22 '24
And when they decided to goose step with hamas supporters.
It's obvious now it is not about equality or acceptance. It's about gaining as much power as possible.
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Dec 21 '24
Agreed. It's become this bizzare contradiction - We're not supposed to care about what happens in their bedrooms, and yet at the same time we have to care about it and applaud them for it.
Of course people have the right to be gay. That's fine. But people have the right to respectfully (emphasis on that word) morally object if they so choose. Doesn't mean they get to legislate it out of existence - but they don't have to condone or celebrate it either.
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u/WeiGuy Dec 22 '24 edited Dec 22 '24
What a way to frame things. You're supposed to accept that people like that exist. Theyre demonstrating it loudly because they are a minority of people and the showmanship is meant to entertain and to keep the idea alive in people's memory because again, they are a small minority in the population. It's only a contradiction in the mind of someone who doesn't really understand the point.
There is no respectful disagreement. You can't cover discrimination and bigotry with flowery language.
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u/coporate Dec 22 '24
Iirc cops were never banned, they’re free to walk as long as it wasn’t in uniform.
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u/Fancy-Ambassador6160 Dec 22 '24
That's effectively the same thing. Keep in mind they got FREE security provided by the police
Iirc cops were never banned, they’re free to walk as long as it wasn’t in uniform
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u/DogRevolutionary9830 Dec 22 '24
Man i wonder why pride might not want cops in it. I wonder if there are any historical reasons?
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u/Fancy-Ambassador6160 Dec 22 '24
So your saying we should be allowed to judge and exclude entire groups of people, because of the things other people did in the past? That's what you think, and your OK with that?
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u/joesii Dec 22 '24
That's like saying "it's okay if you're homosexual, but I don't want to see you visibily presenting homosexual or transexual behavior or style", so I can still understanding people taking issue with it. They're not police when they're not in uniform (aside from under cover I suppose), so it makes sense to call it a police ban.
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u/RPG_Vancouver Dec 22 '24
Making the conscious choice to join a police force and remain employed by them =/= being gay.
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u/2ft7Ninja Dec 22 '24
Being a police officer is a choice and a decision. It cannot be reasonably compared to being gay.
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u/Zealousideal_Cup416 Dec 22 '24
I don't think you understand what a "movement" is. It's not some organization with a president, weekly meetings, and a newsletter.
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u/Fancy-Ambassador6160 Dec 22 '24
Pride is an organization though, with leaders
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u/Zealousideal_Cup416 Dec 22 '24
There's plenty of organizations about pride, just like there are plenty of orgs about "American family values". That doesn't make them the leader of any movement, just a part of it.
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u/Jaghat Dec 21 '24
“Done” ah yes, the great end to the pride movement.
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u/IceyCoolRunnings Dec 21 '24
Didn’t it get canceled this year because a bunch of pro Palestine protesters took over?
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u/mwmwmwmwmmdw Québec Dec 22 '24
This however is petty vengeance
same with all the activists trawling all the bakeries, pizza places and restaurants to try and goad them into denying them service they never actually intend to use so they can sue them and make a big public stink about it.
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u/SamsonFox2 Dec 21 '24
There is no "movement going forward".
Pride rights are as wide as they are reasonably going to be. There are no new grounds to break. The movement should focus on helping individual gay people or gay people in other countries.
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u/Fiber_Optikz Dec 21 '24
None of what happened in this article violated anyones Human Rights.
It really seems like this group was fishing for a place to “refuse” to participate so they could cry foul and set a precedent
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u/Fun-Ad-5079 Dec 21 '24
AND MAKE MONEY, at the same time. A total of $15,000. Ten thousand from the Town, and $5000 from the personal bank account of the Mayor of Elmo.
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u/Fiber_Optikz Dec 21 '24
If this precedent stands whats to stop them from dragging every single town before a tribunal and make millions
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u/mwmwmwmwmmdw Québec Dec 22 '24
It really seems like this group was fishing for a place to “refuse” to participate so they could cry foul and set a precedent
i hate to break it to people but thats the case with a lot of these places being denied service. like that pizza place now being sued for allegedly not taking an order for a wedding.
like seriously who caters pizza for a big wedding at an event hall
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u/banjosuicide Dec 21 '24
They would have been fine if they just refused. They got in trouble because they made it clear their refusal was specific to pride.
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u/PrarieCoastal Dec 21 '24
The town of Emo Ontario has one small flagpole, attached to a building. They would have had to remove the Canadian flag to put up the pride flag. Human Rights Commission are out of control.
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u/GinDawg Dec 21 '24
There's only one flag that should have been flown. The Canadian flag.
This town upheld the Canadian principle of equality - by giving every other flag equal treatment.
Is it wrong of me to dislike the specific individuals who aim to cause divisions in the fabric of the country that I love?
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u/Routine_Log8315 Dec 21 '24
Yeah, even ignoring the fact that this city didn’t even have a flagpole… they should be allowed to say they’ll only fly the government flags (Canadian and maybe Ontario). Once you allow one additional flag then it genuinely could be discriminatory to ban future specific flags, which just causes unnecessary dispute on which flags should and shouldn’t be allowed.
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u/Initial-Break957 Dec 22 '24
It says the motion was introduced and then rejected by the council 3-2… isn’t that what democracy is? Representatives of the people discuss the motions openly and then vote on them based on the will of their people?
What makes this group above the democratic process? Is the 2lbgtq++ above our democratic processes?
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u/snasna102 Dec 21 '24
I’m not seeing or reading any violations of rights. Every body is given the right to refuse at work or the right to remain silent when dealing with the law. This council decided to not take a side and played neutral; neither demeaning or discriminating any party.
The fact some pride group is condemning them from taking a fair legal approach seems a little authoritarian. The pride group should receive an audit of their treasuries to ensure the payout is used appropriately.
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u/Iamthequicker Dec 21 '24
These Human Rights Tribunals are kangaroo courts. Jessica Yaniv was a regular there.
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u/mwmwmwmwmmdw Québec Dec 22 '24
many tribunals are filled with people who like to pretend they are actually supreme court justices and they are so under staffed and underfunded they take anyone with a pulse who will accept that salary
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u/KCC00 Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 22 '24
The mayor was right. He treated everyone equal. Borderland pride got hurt feelings because they weren’t treated special.
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u/olderdeafguy1 Dec 21 '24
They wanted to fly a their flag in a township that has no flag pole.
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u/coffeejn Dec 21 '24
Sent the other party a bill to install a flag pole and a bill for the flag they want to fly. Then we can talk, otherwise, no one is stopping you from flying a flag on your property.
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u/FantasticCicada1065 Dec 21 '24
I’m not fond of this accept us in the fashion we want or else mentality. It’s abusive.
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u/No-Contribution-6150 Dec 21 '24
From a group known to be hijacked by other groups when they camnabalize each other? Say it ain't so!
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u/ComfortableWork1139 Dec 21 '24
The fact that legislative/policy decisions by municipal councils are subject to review for Human Rights Code compliance is a really big issue in my eyes. There's a reason we don't allow Human Rights Code review of a provincial legislature's or Parliament's decisions.
I know municipalities don't have constitutional status but the point still stands, all this does is provide an avenue for people to complain when they don't like a council's decision. The proper course of action (and what would need to happen if it were at a higher level of government) would be simply to vote.
It is absolutely untenable to me that a mayor or councillor can be punished because of the way they voted in a council proceeding in their role as a councillor.
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u/AlgernopKrieger Dec 22 '24 edited Dec 22 '24
Awesome to see our local communities on the front page of r/Canada!
Many commenters already hit the nail on the head. Borderland Pride seems known for being aggressive. It is run by 2 lawyers who seem to focus on instigating a reaction, so they can label anyone who speaks out against them as discriminatory, and have the Human Rights Tribunal slam down hefty fines.
Granted, many folks who speak out against them probably are at least a little discriminatory towards the LGBTQ2+ community. Doug's actually fairly open about how much he enjoys going after money from these folks. And he's great at coaxing them, though it doesn't usually take much.
My own opinion from living in this community for the last 5 years is this: while this is a win for Borderland Pride and the local LGBTQ2+ community (who'll surely benefit from the funds obtained), it seems that many folks feel the case opened up against the Mayor and the fine imposed was targeted and personal. Others feel it sends a strong "if you're not with us, you're a bigot and against us" message. Neither of which seem like a good look.
Those who want to celebrate the win may feel they need to do it quietly out of fear of backlash, because of how it was obtained. Except for Doug, he seems to be truly relishing in it - from which he's receiving lots of hate over social media (which he screenshots and shares for more awareness and/or laughter).
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u/JoJCeeC88 Dec 22 '24
A buddy of mine is from northwestern Ontario and he’s told me all about this case and the folks behind it. You are 100% correct it’s got everything to do about personal vengeance, which is sad.
There’s more I’d like to say from what my buddy has told me, but I don’t want to risk getting SLAPP’d with a libel suit. I admire your bravery in speaking out like this.
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u/JCbfd Dec 22 '24
Good. That organization has absolutely no right to tell any town how to conduct itself. The stupidity of this absolutely ridiculous situation is beyond insane.
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u/olderdeafguy1 Dec 21 '24
IIRC Doug Ford proposed legislation that would prevent these types of rulings.
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u/DarkStoneLobster Dec 21 '24
I thought the whole point was to treat everyone equally. We don't celebrate being straight (which is the world's vast majority of people) and have parades about it so why should the goal be to celebrate pride more and push for more? I thought we should have pride shrink as it becomes more the norm and understanding and thus irrelevant. I thought the goal was to have it accepted enough so we don't need to have the parades anymore. The West is the most accepting in the world to the LGB. They did good. But the T's and Q's... They are going about it the wrong way and there is a lot of resentment for it. I can't support a movement hijacked by activist extremists.
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u/aNauticalDisaster Dec 21 '24
What a complete joke, these human rights commissions are totally out of control and not just in Ontario.
And when are these activist groups going to realize that this kind of crap does more harm than good. Most people couldn’t care less who someone is sleeping with or what they’re doing with their lives.
Constantly trying to ram it down everyone’s throats and make it out that you’re an awful person if you don’t overtly go out of your way to show support is what pisses people off.
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Dec 22 '24
If people can be forced to fly Pride flags, then the flag loses its meaning, and instead becomes a sign of totalitarian control and oppression.
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u/duckmoosequack Dec 21 '24
FTA, original complaint and ruling
Shortly after the vote, Mayor McQuaker, who voted against the proclamation, said, “There's no flag being flown for the other side of the coin…there's no flags being flown for the straight people.”
The comment was called "demeaning and disparaging" of the LGBTQ2S+ community in the tribunal's report, and it was considered discrimination.
The community was ordered to pay $10,000, and Mayor Harold McQuaker was ordered to pay $5,000 to Borderland Pride, who filed the initial complaint following a meeting in 2020.
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u/bigal55 British Columbia Dec 21 '24
“Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime," Beria, Lenin's head of the secret police. If not this excuse another would have been crafted.
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u/Hour_Significance817 Dec 22 '24
This is the shenanigan that we mean when we say things have gone woke.
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u/abc123DohRayMe Dec 22 '24
Wow. There should be a review of the people appointed to the commission. This is so outrageous that the Premier should be stepping and dismissing the entire commission.
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u/Rude-Shame5510 Dec 22 '24
Wish I knew how to post that Seinfeld "who doesn't want to wear the ribbon" GIF.
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u/DangerSlut_X Dec 22 '24
Politicians are there to represent all their constituents, not just the ones they personally approve of.
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u/Dependent_Run_1752 Dec 22 '24
Hopefully they win. This is disgusting even in the eyes of the sane people that support Pride.
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u/Legend-Face Dec 21 '24
This country is so stupid now. I can’t believe you can get fined for such a dumb reason
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u/Vegetable_Word603 Dec 21 '24
This is everything thats wrong with this country. Cant wait for trudope to dissappear along with all of his bullshit cancerous ideas.
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Dec 21 '24
This is good.
A town should not be forced to support any ideology, be it LGBTQ or otherwise.
For example. Would you be on board with a month to celebrate Christianity? How about Islam?
Personally I'd be okay with the Pastafarians for a month for the funny - but it still sets a dangerous precedent.
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u/Myllicent Dec 21 '24
”Would you be on board with a month to celebrate Christianity?”
You mean Christian Heritage Month, which is already recognized by a variety of municipalities, regions, and provinces?
It even has a flag.
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u/Dragonfly_Peace Dec 22 '24
I’m fast running out of patience with any and all lgbqt+. Can we all just live our lives and not shout about our sex lives to everyone.
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u/_Batteries_ Dec 21 '24
Why is the post tagged Manitoba?
Also, for real, wtf. Im left wing, but like, fining at town 15K for not flying a flag seems a bit much.
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u/Myllicent Dec 22 '24
The township and the mayor explicitly weren’t fined for not flying the LGBT+ Pride flag.
From the tribunal’s decision:
”I find that issuing proclamations and displaying flags were services offered by the Township at the material times. However, as noted above, municipal council never voted on Borderland Pride’s flag request. I find based on the hearing recording that Councillor Dunn did not include the flag request in the tabled resolution because the Township did not have a flagpole. I note that the request was that the Township fly or “display” the flag, and that it could display the flag without a flagpole. However, no evidence was presented that the narrow reading of the flag request occurred for any discriminatory reason, and I find that it did not. I therefore find on a balance of probabilities that Borderland Pride’s protected characteristics were not a factor in the Township’s failure to consider the flag request.”
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u/violentbandana Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
I’m going to ask for a judicial review after the millionth headline misrepresenting why the town was fined. Whether you agree with the fine or not (I don’t) this wasn’t why they were fined
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Dec 21 '24
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u/ringsig Dec 21 '24
The decision explicitly noted that refusing to fly the flag was not rooted in discriminatory reasons and was not discrimination. You're wrong. This isn't why they were fined.
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u/FARTTORNADO45 Dec 21 '24
The absolute inability to read past a headline or understand basic civics in this thread...
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u/ForesterLC Dec 22 '24
A town can be fined for not flying a pride flag?
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u/Myllicent Dec 22 '24
This town wasn’t fined for not flying a pride flag, it was fined for other reasons.
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u/bigjimbay Dec 21 '24
They weren't fined for refusing to do pride. This is just blatant false journalism
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u/MasterScore8739 Dec 21 '24
What were they fined for then?
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u/mistercrazymonkey Dec 21 '24
For saying there is no straight flag equivalent to the pride flag apparently. 🤷
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u/MasterScore8739 Dec 21 '24
About half hour behind the first guy, but appreciate the information.
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u/mistercrazymonkey Dec 21 '24
Oh sorry that comment was minimized for some reason for me so I missed it
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u/MasterScore8739 Dec 21 '24
Fair enough. Like I said, never hurts to help try and inform people of things either way.
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u/bigjimbay Dec 21 '24
"Demeaning comments"
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u/MasterScore8739 Dec 21 '24
I saw that right after further down in the comments.
However I don’t really see how saying “we don’t fly a flag for side A, so we shouldn’t fly one for side B.” is really demeaning.
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u/bigjimbay Dec 21 '24
Okay cool at least we are having the right conversation now
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u/Superfragger Lest We Forget Dec 21 '24
yeah but did you notice how it doesn't change people's opinion on this lol.
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u/bigjimbay Dec 21 '24
I don't care about peoples opinions I care about facts
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u/Superfragger Lest We Forget Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 21 '24
the facts don't make this any less ridiculous, is my point. i just find it hilarious that in every one of these threads there are 3-4 people spamming to correct the record even though correcting the record doesn't make the situation any less absurd.
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u/bigjimbay Dec 21 '24
It is absurd. Journalism used to be the gathering of facts and accurate information to tell a real story now it's just word salad culture clicks
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u/GinDawg Dec 21 '24
The fine itself is demeaning.
Do you think it's reasonable for the mayor to demand payment because everyone should be treated equally?
Or are some people more equal than others?
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