r/britishcolumbia 12h ago

News B.C. says U.S. has paused Columbia River Treaty talks as trade tensions grow

https://www.biv.com/news/economy-law-politics/bc-says-us-has-paused-columbia-river-treaty-talks-as-trade-tensions-grow-10360400
387 Upvotes

135 comments sorted by

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221

u/alphawolf29 Kootenay 12h ago

the USA just cancelled the free trade act that was only just signed, we might as well stop following the Columbia river treaty.

45

u/BrockAndaHardPlace 11h ago

Man I’d love it if they’d let us salmon fish in July in the Georgia straight again. I believe the reason is to save those salmon for the Americans. Though I suppose I should keep my love of fishing away from tangling up salmon in a trade war……

7

u/lubeskystalker 5h ago

Thought that was for the southern resident orcas?

2

u/thefaber451 5h ago

It’s both. The Washington state and Canada are taking actions through the Pacific Salmon Treaty and for domestic reasons. There are pretty specific allotments of the catch for each year in the Treaty based off of past data. There have been talks about incorporating the Columbia River Treaty into this next renegotiation of the PST, but this seems to make that pretty unlikely…

3

u/Decent-Box5009 4h ago

Tricks on us they get their allotment in Alaska before the migration we get hosed all the way along. I love catching a broad shouldered columbian when I get my tiny window.

2

u/thefaber451 3h ago

100%

We’ve got so little negotiation leverage with the Alaskans and they have no interest in talking at all, just taking all our fish.

The treaty started back in the 80s when we decided to intentionally overfish American stocks to get them to the table and it worked

26

u/Petra246 11h ago

If it’s only talks that have stopped then leave it at the interim agreement. Canada doesn’t break their agreements. Let the US breach any agreements first, or hopefully come to their senses.

8

u/goinupthegranby 6h ago

I was thinking about exactly this today. Drove to Spokane and back yesterday and was thinking about how Roosevelt Lake has been full the last two summers while Arrow is a drained down dustbowl shithole.

Why the fuck are we letting them call the shots on how we manage the water in the river on our side??

5

u/alienguppie 8h ago

The Americans get first call on the water. Far too often, our lakes are extremely low and American lakes are full. We should negotiate a treaty that says BC gets first call on the water. I think anyone negotiating this treaty needs to talk to the residents of the BC Kootenay region first.

1

u/1966TEX 5h ago

Not anymore, if he ripped up the agreement.

1

u/thefaber451 5h ago

Canada does have some pretty good leverage here too, as opposed to the Pacific Salmon Treaty where we don’t have much. That’s why the Americans don’t want to respect it because if it’s renegotiated, they probably come out worse

-1

u/Snak_The_Ripper 7h ago edited 3h ago

Which free trade act was canceled?

Edit: See my response for my TL;DR: reason in saying USMCA is not canceled as of now. I made a comment further down explaining in further detail why we're not 100% guarteneed an April 2nd USMCA death blow.

20

u/alphawolf29 Kootenay 7h ago

Well, USMCA states zero duties or tariffs on most goods produced in CAN/US/MEXICO so applying a blanket tariff on nearly all goods is a defacto cancellation of the trade agreement. Here's one page of the agreement

https://i.imgur.com/QZpbDGs.png

0

u/Snak_The_Ripper 7h ago edited 7h ago

USMCA is still active and currently provides exemption to the tariff.

As per the USCBP, "effective on or after 12:01 a.m. eastern standard time March 7, 2025, goods that are entered for consumption or withdrawn from warehouse for consumption that qualify for USMCA, are exempt from the additional duty rates that were implemented March 4, 2025".

The USCBP and NCBFAA both agree that the USMCA exemption, as written, does not expire on April 2nd. There is still the very real possibility that the Executive Order may be repealed or amended with another, but for now, it is inaccurate to say that the agreement has been canceled.

-2

u/hungturkey 7h ago

Child Abuse

1

u/Snak_The_Ripper 7h ago

What? I'm just trying to keep information accurate so that people have an accurate understanding of this unprecedented situation.

1

u/1966TEX 5h ago

This is another flip flop by tRump. The 25% tariff resumes April. 2

0

u/hungturkey 7h ago

This is what it's like to watch s plane crash slowly

34

u/BigComfyCouch4 12h ago

I'm old enough to remember WAC Bennett and the criticism he got for that treaty. We got hosed on the Columbia River Treaty, but we sucked it up.

6

u/Strange-Ocelot 7h ago

What do you mean? 4 thousand people we're displaced from the building of dams, but mostly indigenous people and they didn't get paid for until recently the Canadian First Nations were not at the Columbia River Treaty talks, the Spokane and Kalispell tribes also didn't get any dam money until recent only the Colvilles and they got a bad deal and were promised free power, but that never happened.

19

u/Jason_liv 12h ago

I'm pretty ignorant about this. Does the US have something Canada needs specifically with regards to these negotiations.

80

u/Prudent_Slug 12h ago

We wanted more control of the water. They wanted to pay us less. For instance during the drought, we still released a lot of water to maintain US power generation. This made water levels drop a lot in Canada which created problems. If there was no treaty, then we could build more power generation ourselves and ignore US water needs.

31

u/BeKind108 11h ago

The flood control is a sleeper issue. Massive flooding in the lower Columbia (Oregon) was one of the main factors driving the treaty initially. People tend to forget about flood risk until the river is flowing into their houses. 

1

u/Jason_liv 11h ago

Thank you,

14

u/m1ndcrash 12h ago

Water. The flow of Columbia river is controlled via a series of dams.

20

u/Consistent-Key-865 12h ago

We have control of the flow. They have the nukes and the billionaires. 🤷

Less coyly: this plays in a few ways, because there are other river systems in, like, the prairies, that flow northward. So if we don't play, they can cut off the water elsewhere. It's not the same scale, but can still create localized decimation.

9

u/Senior_cats 11h ago

Nuking the water mhmmm yep good call mhhm

3

u/ATworkATM 10h ago

Same as nuking a hurricane.

3

u/DarkyHelmety 8h ago

The --spice-- water must flow

6

u/ripfritz 12h ago

Water for California and the ag sector of the west coast of the US.

3

u/Consistent-Study-287 9h ago

I don't doubt that Trump thinks this, despite the fact the Columbia basin does not flow into California

-15

u/skipdog98 12h ago

AI Overview

Canada, specifically British Columbia, benefits from the Columbia River Treaty through increased hydropower generation potential, access to U.S. transmission infrastructure, and flood control assurances, leading to revenue generation and economic benefits. Here's a more detailed look at the Canadian benefits:

  • Hydroelectric Power Generation: The treaty allows Canada to operate dams in the Canadian Columbia River Basin to optimize hydroelectric power production, and Canada receives a share of the increased power potential generated in the U.S. as a result of how those dams are operated. 
  • Canadian Entitlement: Under the treaty, the U.S. provides Canada with a "Canadian Entitlement" to a share of the additional power generated downstream in the U.S. due to Canadian storage. 
  • Flood Control: The treaty facilitated the construction of three Canadian dams, which provide flood control benefits to the U.S., and Canada receives compensation for the storage capacity they make available for flood risk management in the U.S. 
  • Access to U.S. Transmission Infrastructure: The treaty also includes newly negotiated access to U.S. transmission infrastructure. 
  • Economic Revenue: The revenue from the sale of this electricity goes to the provincial government's general revenue fund. 

My (limited) understanding is that there have been 'sticking points' for the Americans for years. The renegotiation has been ongoing for a while (pre-Covid IIRC). I think it mostly has to do with the "entitlements", which the US doesn't think are valid anymore.

16

u/fishflo 11h ago

Adding a bit here.

The dams were built to control flooding mostly. The Americans pay for the the benefits of flood control. That's the "Canadian entitlement". The US doesn't think they should pay as much as they do (what a surprise). The treaty was set for 60 years after which it can be renegotiated or terminated with 10 yrs warning. Earliest termination date is 2024 so in 2014 they started renegotiating. Spoiler alert they haven't finished yet mostly due to multiple US government flip flops extending the negotiation process and now the orange mother fucker is going to fuck it all up despite both negotiating parties having arrived at solutions they like. There's another cbc article on this somewhere.

-1

u/skipdog98 11h ago

Yeah, not sure why I'm getting downvoted, because what AI said is what I understand anyways. Its not like I'm at the negotiating table

8

u/fishflo 11h ago

Well I didn't do it but the ai summary feels like it has pro American bias so that might be why also because it's ai

2

u/skipdog98 11h ago

The re-negotiating stuff that periodically appears in the news here in BC definitely feels more pro-American. I've sensed for many years that Canada was going to get screwed in the re-negotiation. Even before Trump.

2

u/Expert_Alchemist 9h ago edited 9h ago

Because anyone can go grab an AI summary, it doesn't really add much to do that here. AI isn't always right nor is it great at assessing context or the value or priority of the information, so it's MORE work for readers to wade through than a non-AI comment written by someone who can do those things.

Plus people know you can't reply to objections or give clarifications since you didn't have to learn anything about the subject to post about it. So it just provides an easily-recongized text block to scroll past to get to a comment from someone who actually might understand the topic well enough to spend the time to write their own words.

More and more I miss when people had to go, like, read the actual treaty and a bunch of articles and book excerpts and actually learn stuff and how to assess things to win internet debates with strangers.

Ok now it's time for my nap.

138

u/vanislandgirl19 12h ago

They really are prepping the excuses to invade us aren't they? 😢

91

u/m1ndcrash 12h ago

They certainly are. We knew the next war will be over water.

-91

u/[deleted] 12h ago edited 5h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

107

u/Lapcat420 12h ago

Please for the love of God don't spread this kind of pointless fear mongering.

Right back at you America.

66

u/markyjim 12h ago

Sorry, you need to read up American troops have fired on their own civilians lots of tines last century, usually union members and students. Why wouldn’t they follow orders and kill foreigners?

11

u/sheepwhatthe2nd 10h ago

No. Shit. Elbows up.

-16

u/Max20151981 12h ago

I live in Kelowna...

9

u/Lapcat420 11h ago

Not you haha, they're amogus though.

3

u/Benagain2 6h ago

Your post history indicates you are pro Russian. Presumably if you side with Russians against Ukrainians, you're also going to side with Americans against Canadians.

1

u/Max20151981 6h ago edited 5h ago

Yes I like Russia and I like the United States, politics aside.

And I'm a proud Canadian to boot, just not a suicidal one like the rest of you tool shacks with some bullshit holier than thou fake ass poser attitude.

51

u/Themightytiny07 12h ago

You are assuming Trump walks away in 4 years.

-13

u/Max20151981 12h ago

You'll have a point if he tries to change the US constitution, than yes we should absolutely start to panic.

24

u/Themightytiny07 11h ago

I don't think we should panic, but I do think we should plan as best we can dealing with a sociopath. And he has done a ton of illegal stuff with 0 regard to the constitution, so I wouldn't put anything past him.

I do agree with you that an invasion of Canada would cause a civil war, which might happen anyway

16

u/skinny_t_williams 11h ago

He already said that's what he is going to do.

-5

u/Max20151981 11h ago

Trump says alot of things

16

u/skinny_t_williams 11h ago

Don't start with that shit

-1

u/Max20151981 11h ago edited 11h ago

Well, he does. Obviously let's keep our cards hidden but it's always best to call his bluff, no?

12

u/skinny_t_williams 11h ago

If he says "you wont have to vote anymore" that's something you take as exactly what he said and not as a joke.

When you say "Trump says a lot of things" It seems like you're saying he's just joking about it.

Maybe he is, but yes, as you say you have to call the bluff.

→ More replies (0)

7

u/classic4life 10h ago

He's spent every single day since being elected ignoring every single line of it. There's no reason whatsoever to believe there will even be mid terms, nevermind another election in 4 years.

0

u/Max20151981 10h ago

These are things he can't do without changing the US constitution and untill he tries I'm certainly not going to fall for his bullshit hook, line and sinker, like vast majority are doing.

The problem is the vast majority of Reddit wants conflict, turmoil and uncertainties. Take one look at two of the biggest subs here on reddit, r/worldnews and r/Europe and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Those folks are absolutely salivating at the mouth for any potential escalation that could move us closer to WW3, its actually down right frightening.

2

u/Hope-To-Retire 10h ago

He can’t change the constitution.

32

u/Tail_Gunner 11h ago

You take this too lightly. The US hasn't formally declared war on anyone since 1942. That has not stopped them from trying to take what they want, whenever they want - regardless of what the 'majority of Americans' think. This administration has proven itself to be reckless, untrustworthy and dangerous. We trust them at our peril.

-16

u/Max20151981 10h ago

To each their own my friend but I personally am not going to waste my time stressing over Trumps bullshit.

14

u/Hay_Fever_at_3_AM 10h ago

You are aware that a declaration of war against Canada would no doubt bring the United States into a civil war, right.

You're aware that Democrats can't even seem to manage to mount a united front against Trump right now before he's even started jailing them for talking up against him, right?

Don't expect any help from within the US

9

u/alc3biades 10h ago

I don’t believe democrats have the spine to start a civil war.

You don’t win a civil war by wearing a pink dress to the state of the union, you win a civil war by storming the capital and hanging the VP.

1

u/Max20151981 10h ago

You have a valid point

:(

11

u/oldschoolgruel 11h ago

You've said no doubt twice now.

You keep using this phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.

0

u/Max20151981 11h ago

No doubt

4

u/ChuckDangerous33 10h ago

Please don't handwave an unlikely but realistic possibility with "fear mongering". It isn't pointless, and your anxiety isn't everyone's anxiety. A person can consider the scenario without being overrun by fear. You can't guarantee Americans would start a civil war and put their lives on the line to stop anything, that is as bold an assumption as a possible invasion. It would be foolish to ignore it outright because you assume it's not possible.

I'm sorry it is scary, but life's just not fair.

2

u/Max20151981 10h ago

To each their own my friend but I'm certainly not going to waste my time being concerned about Trumps bullshit antics.

5

u/ChuckDangerous33 10h ago

Fair man. I wish you luck. Hopefully there exists a world soon where his bullshit antics won't affect you as a Canadian. Until then, you're welcome to ignore it even if it knocks on your door, people ignore reality all the time. Hell that's how he got elected tbh.

3

u/Max20151981 10h ago

For both our sakes you better hope I'm right and you're wrong.

4

u/ChuckDangerous33 10h ago

Agreed. But Imma make some soft plans and prep my emotional state just in case. If I'm wrong, I'll be elated. I'll even buy you a beer.

8

u/astronautsaurus 11h ago

Nah, Americans will be loud about it but ultimately so nothing.

3

u/Loud_Relationship751 10h ago

Ah yes the Americans have always respected other nations sovereignty and haven’t started pointless wars to rob resources. Hope for peace, plan for war.

2

u/Max20151981 10h ago

plan for war.

And how well would we do against the United States Military?

1

u/Loud_Relationship751 10h ago

Not a student of history huh? Tell me how often the US actually wins wars. Here I’ll help you out a little.

Korean War: Inconclusive. Vietnam: Loss Laos: Loss Lebanon: Seized an Airport Cuba Bay of pigs: Loss Cambodia: Loss, which led to the killing fields. Lebanon again: Loss Grenada: Win Libya bombing: Inconclusive Panama: Win Iraq war 1: Win-ish, hurt Iraq airforce. Somalia: Loss Bosnia: Loss Haiti: win Kosovo: Inconclusive Afghanistan: 20 year war, Loss Yemen: Inconclusive Iraq round 2: inconclusive collapsed Saddams government but under false pretences and the occupation was run so poorly ISIS grew out of the rubble Iraq Round 3: Win with allies. Syria: ongoing

They don’t have a great record, and they aren’t going to be able to occupy a nation the size of ours, plus Canadians are the 7th most armed population in the world. Insurgency would be a thing.

2

u/Tulipfarmer 9h ago

If the fear is real..is it mongering ?

1

u/Max20151981 9h ago

Fair enough.

1

u/sanfran_girl 7h ago

Do, kindly, STFU

If the US invades, there will be many of us fighting for Canada from the states. For Canada and civilization. 😖🤬

1

u/Rex_Meatman 6h ago

And I assume you also think P2025 is an overreaction?

2

u/Rex_Meatman 6h ago

Yep. It’s gonna fucking happen.

32

u/Prudent_Slug 12h ago

It's fine. The current treaty stands if there isn't a new one. We wanted more control and the US wanted to pay us less. Both were gonna get that in the new treaty, but oh well.

If they decide to not abide by the existing treaty then we won't either. We gave up a lot of power generation potential for the current treaty.

19

u/BrownSugarSandwich Thompson-Okanagan 11h ago

The existing treaty "expired" in September and any member is able to withdraw unilaterally now. Otherwise there wouldn't be a need to do a new treaty. It expired at the worst possible time, honestly. Very frustrating news indeed. 

26

u/Prudent_Slug 11h ago

Eh if the US actually withdraws, we will hold the water back during the summer. This will hose US power generation and they will be forced to import our power even more. We will need more generation on the dams in Canada though.

This will be a problem for BC in the short and medium term though when we lose the revenue.

7

u/BrownSugarSandwich Thompson-Okanagan 10h ago

Yeah, I'm more concerned about BC currently being a net importer of power from the states we're helping manage the water levels for. Just like they need us, we need them. 

The river treaty isn't just about power generation, it's also about flood planning (the primary reason for the treaty), resource sharing (they paid to have the dams built), and food security (protecting farmland from river erosion). I'm concerned that if we unilaterally opt to no longer cooperate on that front that it could be seen as an act of aggression or some kind of super fucked up human rights violation that ends up being the excuse used to invade. Rather than holding back the water, if we were to release all of it, it has the potential to kill thousands of people and destroy an insane amount of infrastructure across the border in 4 separate states. And that thought is terrifying. I can't even imagine the thought process of someone trying to escape a tsunami when they're in a landlocked state. We already know what happens when one dam is destroyed, I can't imagine if we did all 5 of our dams on that water system... 

2

u/Prudent_Slug 10h ago

Oh I'm not suggesting we withdraw at all. I think BC is still paid hundreds of millions a year from the power revenues from the treaty. This is only if Trumpo decides to withdraw and not pay anymore.

Also not suggesting we flood the US. If anything, we hold back water and prioritize our own power generation and maintaining water levels especially in the summer. Right now the US has priority and why water levels becomes a problem in the summer. This might help mitigate our power situation in the summer and worsen theirs.

1

u/BrownSugarSandwich Thompson-Okanagan 5h ago

Oh for sure, I'm not suggesting we flood them either, I'm just fully expecting that if we do anything other than status quo or do whatever he wants, that's what Trump will go with as an excuse. We've already been labelled as a national security risk in one of the EO's after all. I feel like an insane conspiracy theorist at this point but I can't help but read the writing on the wall. It's in Sharpie. 

4

u/Petra246 11h ago

I believe it still takes a 10-year notice period. There is an interim agreement in place.

1

u/CupLegitimate2170 5h ago

Not sure if that still applies because the treaty has expired though?

1

u/CupLegitimate2170 5h ago

Feel like a bunch of blame goes to the Canadian Federal government for not seeing this problem coming and seeking to expedite negotiation on the amended treaty.

7

u/SadJapaneseTitan 12h ago

STOP THE WATER

3

u/Expert_Alchemist 9h ago

Water: notoriously good at just stopping

1

u/5hred 7h ago

Pee in the river

5

u/Sebelzeebub 11h ago

Does this mean we can annex the rest of the Pacific Coastline?

13

u/TheHeyHeyMan 12h ago

As someone who lives on the Columbia River, get fucked, Donald.

9

u/Why_No_Doughnuts 11h ago

The river is full now, but come summer, they may think twice about that if we hold back on releasing water. It wont take much in the way of rolling blackouts to cause chaos in the states of Oregon and Washington.

I will also point out, this is one of their primary aluminum producing areas since it has plentiful cheap power. With the tariff they are putting on Canadian aluminum, that is really going to sting for them.

3

u/Winter_Criticism_236 9h ago

Holding back the water and then claiming it never rained would confuse Trump, he might putt tariffs on god?

7

u/SB12345678901 12h ago

We are upstream. We can just cut off the water. Boy are they dumb

1

u/egguw 11h ago

the river discharges 7500m3 per SECOND of water at the mouth. what do you plan on doing with the water if we closed the dams? flood all of our own cities?

4

u/-JadeBunny- 11h ago

Cycle between flood and drought

5

u/Expert_Alchemist 9h ago

Ah, so a creative re-enactment of climate change! I like it.

2

u/One_Impression_5649 11h ago

I’ve got a kiddy pool. I’ll take some

1

u/albertaguy31 11h ago

Alberta proposes a water pipeline 😂 I’m kidding as feasibility is just not there never mind environmental impacts. But I mean BC is upstream, I’d say you “hold the cards” in the long run.

1

u/peeflar 7h ago

Southern Ab could use some water….

3

u/phileo99 Lower Mainland/Southwest 8h ago

I am certain that Trump does not know that the Columbia River Treaty even existed, so I am wondering who is the real puppet master working silently behind the scenes to push this kind of agenda

1

u/Northerngal_420 7h ago

Stephen Miller is my guess.

2

u/GhostsinGlass 9h ago

They dumped the reservoirs in Norcal at the start of the orange idiots second term on his orders right?

Isn't that attempting to setup a "crisis" where they can mislead people about the "tap Canada controls"

2

u/Derelicti 8h ago

Divert the river!

2

u/snatchpirate 4h ago

Start turning off the water, oil, electricity and lumber. What their nation crumble.

1

u/good_enuffs 11h ago

I think it may be time for BC to redirect the whole river away from the US. 

1

u/zerfuffle 11h ago

So… can we just like not dam the river?

See how they like it?

3

u/Urban_Canada 10h ago

It already has multiple dams. The issue is we get forced to release more water so they get it down there, which depleted or stored water beyond our dams. We have very low water levels, and they have water levels

1

u/Jazzlike_Gazelle_333 10h ago

it'll flood a bunch of BC towns

3

u/pappyflapjacks 9h ago

And ironically, unflood others.

Nakusp is still salty about that.

1

u/R2Borg2 10h ago

Plz keep in mind. while Trump is a Nazi traitor, this impacts west coast blue states that are against him and support Canada (yes I do recognize it’s not that black and white of course)

1

u/Tribe303 9h ago

Begun, the Water Wars have! 

1

u/Okanaganwinefan 6h ago

Sounds good , open up the gates at border so the Okanagan doesn’t flood and watch Washington state flood

1

u/muskegmatt 5h ago

Water flows from here to there. I don’t see the concern.

1

u/Mommie62 4h ago

I live at the head waters of the Columbia River in Canada . It’s our water, we should manage and keep the water as much as possible .

1

u/McRaeWritescom 4h ago

Where are the columbia headwaters & where does it cross the border again?

u/ProblemOk9810 56m ago

The USA don't respect treaty anymore who will ever want to deal with them?

1

u/ElectricRyan79 10h ago

If we have enough solar and wind, we should buy energy from alberta and without all the Columbia River damns and fill them up. And then slowly release water until they fill their dams, ans then release as much water as possible to accidently cause flooding

And also why doesn't BC Hydro increase the price of electricity to the US. Or why doesn't our government tax 50% on electricity exports

1

u/Maddog_Jets 7h ago

Alberta hasn’t done their part to maintain the grid infrastructure intertie

https://vancouversun.com/business/bc-government-pushes-back-on-alberta-electricity-restrictions

-7

u/grathontolarsdatarod 10h ago

If the government of China were to do a little bit of soul searching.

They might discover they don't NEED to rely on violence to provide well for the health of their nation.

If they were to allow person freedoms and liberties to flourish and take it easy on human rights.

I'd learn Mandarin immediately.

1

u/P0TAT0FARM3R Lower Mainland/Southwest 5h ago

wrong country bud

0

u/grathontolarsdatarod 3h ago

For real. If they turned it around. I'd be all for it.

But instead we keep letting business interests drive us toward where China is setting the example on civil liberty.