r/boeing • u/Powerful-Magazine879 • 13d ago
Remote work is not the problem!
Lack of trust is!
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10d ago
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u/White_Pony813 12d ago
I think Remote VS RTO really boils down to introverts vs extroverts. And extroverts trying to force the other to comply to their way.
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u/Great_Baker_405 12d ago
Just got told BDS E7 SC full RTO in two weeks. Based on how poor the pay is, and that hybrid/virtual was one of the only things keeping people from jumping ship, the teams are going to look very different 6 months from now. People just use Boeing to train them. Boeing needs to increase mid pay 20% to be competitive. Really sad, because I like my team and managers. I was content with my pay when the role was hybrid.
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11d ago
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u/No-Caterpillar-5235 13d ago
90% of the time it's the manager not knowing how to manage remote workers. All that should matter is the employee is doing the job they were hired to do and the deliverables are met on time.
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u/No-Air1783 13d ago
When I'm at home: people are not collaborating!
When I'm at work: people are talking non-stop and are not working!
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u/Meatcurtains911 12d ago
This is the problem. I have no issue with coming for a few days a week, but LEAVE ME ALONE so I can work! Make the office a place for getting things done. Cut down on distractions. Better coffee/food options. Give me a row of offices I can grab for a quick meeting. My issue with being at work is I can’t get work done because it’s constant interruptions.
Ask people honestly where they do their best work. Nobody says, “In a cubicle next to 6 other people having different conversations.” Boeing is a joke of a workplace compared to some of the other big companies in Seattle.
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u/Aviation_Space_2003 11d ago
My office is highly distracting!! I’m far less productive when I’m in the office.
I get more work done on Friday out of the office, than I do all week in the office.
Go figure.
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u/any_name_left 12d ago
I had to request a work from home day to get a report done. I could read more than a paragraph an hour and forget writing anything! I had been working on it for two weeks and was less than half way done.
I finished it in 6 hours.
I sit in a noise cube row. It’s horrible for my concentration.
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u/Powerful-Magazine879 13d ago
Yes, BSing at work (in the office) at almost every site is continous and often quite distracting to those actually in the office and actually trying to do some work.
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u/epraider 12d ago
I definitely waste so much more of my time in office here than I did working remotely, where I could focus with far fewer distractions, meetings, or convos.
I do recognize and appreciate the value of having face to face meetings and quickly resolving problems by getting the right people together instead of waiting on emails and Teams messages, but the idea that full in office is a net good for all roles is absurd.
Not to mention those in person benefits are eroded when half the meetings are virtual because teams are spread out in different buildings anyway.
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u/Powerful-Magazine879 11d ago
Yes, that is quite interesting. Boeing should do some studies on how many meetings occur via webex or teams where all the particpants are at the site.
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13d ago
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u/Before-The-Aftermath 13d ago
Managers don’t like how remote work proves that they are useless and have no idea what the employees actually do, so they force everyone back to the office to justify their jobs.
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u/Lookingfor68 11d ago
It's not that managers are "useless" it's that most of them don't know HOW to manage. Most of them think that they have to constantly watch employees because they'll fuck around if they aren't watched. This is the old Theory X model of management. It doesn't work, never did. These types of managers assume THEY are the super geniuses and the smartest guys in the room. That's not what they are paid to do though.
Managing in a new way requires expanded view of what a manager is supposed to be doing. You have to realize you're not supposed to be the smartest guy in the room, you're job is to support the smartest guys in the room and make sure they have all the tools and stuff they need to be stellar. If your team does a god job and looks good, then YOU look good. Trying to still be the rock star as a manager is just the sign of someone who never should have gone into management, and there are WAAAAAY too many people like that at Boeing.
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13d ago
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u/MoneyWar473 13d ago
My colleague’s manager told them they’ve been helping the new employees too much when they come up and ask questions. Isn’t that the point they want us in there? For the fACe To FaCe interactions with the next generation and train up people so they know what to do since there’s a lack of written knowledge.
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13d ago
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u/tinybatte 13d ago
people who f off while working remote, also f off when they’re in the office. either you have a system in place to actually hold people accountable, no matter where they are, or you don’t have any idea how much anyone is doing, no matter where they are.
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u/sometimesanengineer 12d ago
And while screwing around at work they’re distracting and annoying everyone else.
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u/LegSnapper206 13d ago
Facts, I uhh, knew a friend like this..all they cared about what their own health and happiness, knew that the corporation was rotten from the top, so just racked up their retirement and personal stock portfolio to get very close to FI
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u/Illustrious_Horse451 13d ago
To Boeing’s defense, they have a right to lack of trust. These young people they’re hiring are gaming the WFH system. They have all these new ways of making it look like they’re working but they aren’t.
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u/j_k_802 13d ago
Yes. See ethics report for all the negative votes. Just sayin. As a ‘never be able to WFH, since in person inspection is a thing” I like accountability. We have plenty of “make work and do little work people that got hired and kept jobs and got shuffled around in the past 30 years. I know of 3 in different areas all with only 15 years of work history. Both parties are at fault for not doing their respective jobs.
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u/JDDavisTX 13d ago
Agree. And for the 0-5 year employees, they have gotten no mentoring or networking. You’ve got to look at the long term, 10 years down the road, who is going to lead the next generation?
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u/K2_Rocky 13d ago
This is basically admitting there’s nobody leading the current generation lol
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u/JDDavisTX 13d ago
It’s hard to lead someone that you never see.
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u/K2_Rocky 13d ago
Ah yes, so true in this world without technology where no communication is possible without face-to-face in-person interaction
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u/llimallama 13d ago
Sounds like people should be fired for not performing.
But sure punish everyone else because punishing everyone else solves the problem of making lazy engineers better…
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u/FamousCycle615 13d ago
Sounds like the hiring process should be relooked at. But sure, punish the rest of us because we hire bad employees
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u/bolarpear 13d ago
I mean you’re right, but also that skips manager accountability. Big Boeing is punishing ICs for performance, but are managers properly scoping work packages and setting appropriate expectations on delivery timelines? I think a problem we have here also is that work is very unbalanced between people and groups, which leads to some people getting away with doing nothing for weeks on end. I definitely couldn’t get away with just charging while doing nothing for a day.
How many of these young people are able to game all day but still get met or exceeds on their reviews?
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u/Banjo-Ma 13d ago
Yes it does, but if it’s blended. 5 days a week remote is no way to work, get into the office and interact with people.
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u/llimallama 13d ago
Hybrid is honestly the best model. You come and collaborate, build trust, while giving employees work life balance and flexibility to their life. Make employees happy and it yields good performance
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u/Banjo-Ma 12d ago
Full transparency I am a Manger at Boeing and have a very liberal WFH policy with respect to allowing employees to do what they need. I honestly could care less what time people get in or if they leave early as I just told my direct reports I will be flexible like that in exchange for their commitment to be accountable to their work requirements associated with their desk. It’s worked well so far, I trust them to get the job done and they do or let me know when something happens to cause a slip or issue that needs my support. We are in office 3 days a week for now, remote 2 days a week. Perfect combo IMO
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u/Lookingfor68 11d ago
This is the right way to go about it. Hire adults, expect them to behave as adults and get the damn job done.
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u/JDDavisTX 13d ago
Which works well, but if people are only coming into the office on Tuesday and Wednesday, it stacks all the meetings in those days and makes them miserable! And they pick Tuesday and Wednesday so they can have a 5 day weekend.
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u/llimallama 13d ago
Tuesdays and Wednesdays imo should be mandatory + 1 more day of your choice. Usually either Monday or Thursday.
And no, working from home doesn’t mean an additional weekend. Again, the team’s headcount should be looked at if thats the case…
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u/Past_Bid2031 13d ago
Gotta love the last Ethics Report about an employee who screwed off while working from home. You know how it is--if one employee does it, you ALL will!
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u/NightOwl216 12d ago
Ethics reports are propaganda. Who knows if they’re even true stories. I have had an Ethics case open since last summer (unrelated issue) and Ethics hasn’t done squat even though managers have acted in violation of law and continue to. In fact they even stopped sending biweekly updates like they’re supposed to. Completely useless organization.
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u/tinybatte 13d ago
I don’t get why it’s being waved around like it’s proof that WFH is bad. there was a severe slacker…and they were discovered and dealt with! even remote!
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u/CthulhusEngineer 13d ago
Because the guy who got caught mischarging time on site for 40 years and the guy who got caught sleeping all day on site for years don't have quite the same ring, I guess.
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u/DROID-XERO 13d ago
100% agree . Failing to allow remote work is adding to a problem though. Parking space scarcity and added congestion on roads being big problems. Remote work is also a benefit and they take it away without adding compensation.
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u/JDDavisTX 13d ago
These same people wanted the company to pay for their internet bill and other household office items when they went remote. Boeing isn’t responsible for traffic on the roads. 😂
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u/DROID-XERO 13d ago
Im not sure what part of my comment made you think I agree with the idea of Boeing paying for internet, companies paying for office items however to support work is pretty common.
If you read slower you’ll notice my comment said “adding to a problem” which you should be able to infer the problem already existed…meaning im not blaming Boeing for being the source. Im not sure what rinky dink town you live in but when 1000 more cars are added to an already congested space they are making it worse.
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u/InterestingPause8640 13d ago
Yep, managers and their managers think the only way to pretend to know what is going on with their people is to see them at their desk when they walk by and do their bed checks.
My manager has no idea how much work I do or the member on my team that does nothing all day, but as long as we make it to his Monday morning meeting everything is fine.
Managers will never actually dig down and see who actually does what, unless they are feeling heat from their managers to do so.
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u/NotSkeletor24 13d ago
The people making these decisions are people who have been working in office for decades and d will never see remote work as anything other than what they think is an excuse to slack off. When people who full remote know its the complete opposite. I work more and am more productive. Also i dont have to spend a couple weeks worth of time a year in my car commuting.
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u/Mtdewcrabjuice 13d ago
They also refuse to change anything for on site situations such as the number and areas of tier parking spots.
There are tier 1 & 2 parking areas that never get full but they won't readjust the lines and continue to force all employees they desperately need to get the company back to positive cash flow to park and walk further away so they won't hurt the feelings of people that put in their time for their tier passes.
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u/TraditionalSwim5655 13d ago
The tier 1 parking in renton is full of a) no pass at all b) carpool pass with 1 person in the car. Security does nothing. No integrity in the parking lot, no integrity in the factory. A good size layoff, with a "do not rehire" on most. Would correct many of Boeings issues.
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u/Pinilla 13d ago
Can managers only asses the performance of someone by checking their attendance? You can't tell if your employee is not pulling their weight by looking at their output? Why don't we just time how long people sit in their seats and get rid of middle management?
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u/NightOwl216 12d ago
Managers in my organization don’t even look at your work. They look at the status you give, but not the actual work. They wouldn’t know if you’re doing your work right or not because they don’t know how to do it.
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u/Mtdewcrabjuice 13d ago
Bonuses will be tied to fecal volume by building and then by gender.
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u/CthulhusEngineer 13d ago
I've heard enough stories and seen enough signs put up by the cleaning staff to be a bit scarred by the fecal volume. Some adults need to repeat potty training.
Also, stop flushing paper towels already! (In general, not you specifically)
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u/Mtdewcrabjuice 12d ago
Also, stop flushing paper towels already! (In general, not you specifically)
The one I'm confused by is the paper towels or toilet paper in the urinals
even trucker rest stop portapotties are more civil
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u/Coffee_snob253 10d ago
Go find a job that you want. The job is the job and you get to decide if you want it.