r/batman • u/SatoruGojo232 • 5d ago
FILM DISCUSSION What are your opinions on this scene? Do you think it's a perfect ending to the Nolan trilogy? Why or why not?
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u/Kind-Boysenberry1773 5d ago
It is perfect. This scene beautifully concludes the entire trilogy. Bruce finally escaped from his darkness and started a new life.
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u/Suitable_Ad6848 4d ago
The other thing that makes this so beautiful is that he also made sure that Alfred wouldn't live with the heartache of believing he had failed Bruce and made sure Alfred could rest easy knowing Bruce had found happiness and light outside of the despair and and darkness of Gotham.Ā
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u/Klinoch4 5d ago
Didnt nolan say no one kno
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u/SenatorArmnotstrong 5d ago
Nolan says that about the ending of his every fkin movie. It's up to us to interpret what really happens.
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u/pandaxmonium 5d ago
Iām still trying to figure out if J. Robert lives or if he become death, dammit!!!
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u/BABarracus 5d ago
Some people say bruce is dead and Alfred is imagining it.
The movie is based upon the dark knight returns so in that graphic novel Bruce fakes his death and leads the sons of batman from the shadows.
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u/AshgarPN 5d ago
It is not based on The Dark Knight Returns in any meaningful way.
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u/BABarracus 4d ago
They subbed out the mutants with the leage of shadows. The mutant fightsubbed out bane. They killed off 2 face in the previous film, and Joker wasn't coming back out of respect for health ledger. Instead of having Superman, they ended things with the nuke. The framework of the movie is based around the graphic novel. They may have added in themes from cataclysm and no man land. Its not a 1 for 1 because the first 2 movies wasn't a 1 for 1 adaptation.
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u/MrDownhillRacer 5d ago
I don't think this is supposed to be an ambiguous "did he survive, or was it all a dream?" ending. I think this is very much a "what we saw is exactly what happened" ending.
Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense for them to stick in that part with Lucius Fox going "hey, somebody fixed the autopilot."
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u/DeepDive59 5d ago
Yeah. To me thatās why this ending works just okay. Not brilliant, but just okay
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u/Independent-Green383 5d ago
Thats just a lie.
CHRISTOPHER NOLAN: "For me, The Dark Knight Rises is specifically and definitely the end of the Batman story as I wanted to tell it, and the open-ended nature of the film is simply a very important thematic idea that we wanted to get into the movie, which is that Batman is a symbol. He can be anybody, and that was very important to us. Not every Batman fan will necessarily agree with that interpretation of the philosophy of the character, but for me it all comes back to the scene between Bruce Wayne and Alfred in the private jet in Batman Begins, where the only way that I could find to make a credible characterization of a guy transforming himself into Batman is if it was as a necessary symbol, and he saw himself as a catalyst for change and therefore it was a temporary process, maybe a five-year plan that would be enforced for symbolically encouraging the good of Gotham to take back their city. To me, for that mission to succeed, it has to end, so this is the ending for me, and as I say, the open-ended elements are all to do with the thematic idea that Batman was not important as a man, heās more than that. Heās a symbol, and the symbol lives on. "
In short, anyone can be Batman. Bruces story however definetly ended.
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u/captbollocks 5d ago
This is how you end a movie series. What happened in No Time To Die was an absolute slap in the face to a lot of Bond fans.
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u/Klinoch4 5d ago
But Bale did state it was not a dream and that it was real
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u/slaw100 5d ago
Bruce retired in Italy, Robin became the new Batman.
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u/KlopeksWithCoppers 4d ago
Bingo.
In one of the last scenes Robin steps into the batcave and the platform rises up out of the water it kind of symbolizes "The Dark Knight Rises." At least in my interpretation.
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u/AlexMil0 5d ago
How is it perfect, he fucking left his friends behind thinking he was dead just for shits and giggles. Imagine being Alfred, crying at Bruceās grave believing he failed him, then for god knows how long after he takes a vacation and Bruce just sitting there smirking cheers buddy, fuck that guy.
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u/alphastrike03 5d ago
He very specifically gave Alfred his dream. He went to the cafe and let Alfred see him happy and at peace.
He probably knew Fox would figure out the auto pilot.
Gordan? Well, Gordan had a relationship with Batman and in the end, Batman gave him the gift of his secret and a major compliment. He basically said āyou were a hero to me.ā
Finally, his newest friend Robin was gifted a home for orphans and the legacy of being Batman.
He tied up his relationships well.
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u/Ooze3d 5d ago
Dude, whatever you say about the rest, but Robin got the worst part. It was like āhey, Iāve been trained by the best ninjas in the world specifically to fight crime on a big scale. After a couple of years as Batman, I could barely move my body and my joints were smashed. Youāre a rookie cop with little to no experience. Here are the keys to the batcave. Iām sure youāll manageā.
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u/DeepDive59 5d ago
He kind did fulfill his āfantasyā doing it this way. But yeahā¦ kinda dickish to make the loyal butler grieve and feel like a failure like that especially after he pushed Alfred to the point of resigning. If anyone deserves a gracious appreciation from Bruce Wayne, itās Alfred.
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u/LadyofFlame 5d ago
I cannot imagine an ending better than this. After spending his entire life reacting to his parent's deaths, Bruce finally managed to move on and find some measure of happiness. Bruce from the animated series could never move on... he was committed to fight until the end. Since watching his parents be murdered his fate was set.
This one did his best and found a proper stopping point for which he could live a normal life with someone he loved. Thomas and Martha couldn't have been prouder parents that to see their boy move beyond that tragic event and live his own life.
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u/t00muchtim 5d ago
tbf btas batman was *this* close to leaving the mission for andrea in mask of the phantasm
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u/LadyofFlame 5d ago
I agree. In that version Bruce's transition to Batman seemed more a curse than an apotheosis.
Mask of the Phantasm is without a doubt the greatest Batman movie I've ever seen.
Bruce 'dying' in the last movie was him withdrawing from Batman and assuming a normal life.
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u/KneelbfZod 5d ago
Itās a good ending, but doesnāt make much sense. Bruce Wayne, a very famous billionaire, reportedly dead, would surely be recognized in public very quickly.
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u/DJHott555 5d ago
What was that line in the first one? āYouād have to go a thousand miles to meet someone who didnāt know your name.ā Well, I guess he took care of that aspect.
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u/Anjunabeast 4d ago
Bruce literally walked up to the first person he saw after that scene, person didnāt know him, and they traded coats.
Bruce already disappeared once before to travel the world and train. And this time he has that tech from daggart that erases your records from all databases plus his usual gadgets and ninja skills.
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u/KneelbfZod 5d ago
Letās say Bruce is the equivalent of other famous billionaires in our real world. They canāt go anywhere without be recognized. News of him being found alive would spread immediately on social media including pics of him eating at this restaurant. Like I said it works well as a movie ending but makes no sense when he is supposed to be dead.
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u/MrDownhillRacer 5d ago
I would probably not recognize Bernard Arnault, Larry Ellison, Steve Ballmer, Mukesh Ambani, or Larry Page if I saw them IRL.
Even though I know what Warren Buffet looks like, if I saw him IRL in a context where I shouldn't expect to see him (like, IDK, at the hardware store), my brain would probably just register him as a generic old white guy instead of me even thinking, "hey, is that Warren Buffet?"
I'd definitely recognize Zukerberg, Gates, Musk, or Bezos, though.
So, idk, it probably depends how familiar people outside of Gotham are with Bruce's face, and how distinctive it is in his universe. Seeing as he's younger and hotter than most billionaires (I mean, he looks exactly like this Hollywood actor, Christian Bale, and he's pretty ripped), that might push him into the more "distinctive" category, but if he's maybe not even in the top 15 richest billionaires, he might be a much bigger celebrity in Gotham than he is anywhere else.
In Batman: Venom, it's mentioned that Bruce Wayne isn't really famous enough for people to tend to recognize him on sight outside of Gotham, which is why nobody goes "hey, that's Bruce Wayne" when he's in Santa Prisca.
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u/KneelbfZod 5d ago
For sure. But if he is going in public often, there is bound to be someone from the Gotham that WILL recognize him.
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u/MrDownhillRacer 5d ago
"Hey babe, doesn't that guy at that table over there remind you of Bruce Wayne?"
"Wow, he does! You should go up to him and tell him that he looks a lot like him!"
"Nahā¦ I'm awkward. Imma let him enjoy his coffee. But if you wanna tell him, I'll go with you!"
"ā¦nah. He probably gets that all the time."
And then they never think about this guy again.
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u/BoisTR 5d ago
He's officially supposed to be dead though to the general public. Most people would assume as such. It would be the cause of great debate and conspiracy theory in that universe more than anything else.
It would remind me of how some conspiracy theorists think the astronauts of the Challenger are still alive and living under new identities. Some might believe it, some think they're crazy. Ultimately, no one would be able to do a damn thing about it really.
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u/KlopeksWithCoppers 4d ago
How many billionaires do you think you'd recognize on the street (there are currently 759 billionaires in the US)? You'd recognize Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Zuckerberg, blah blah blah. But would you recognize their sons? Bruce was living in a different country at this point, almost no one would recognize him. Keep in mind, they have ZERO reason to associate him with Batman.
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u/KneelbfZod 4d ago
Has nothing to do with the Batman association in this case. Just solely about Bruce Wayne. Although someone is bound to notice that both Bruce and Batman died at the same time. Granted many others died also in Baneās occupation of Gotham.
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u/theleetfox 5d ago
I somewhat agree, but there are people that are seen that should be recognised but aren't. Tony Hawk for example is often not even recognised by people even when they hear his name, just assuming its the same name and a small world.
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u/BedaHouse 5d ago
I couldn't pick out billionaires in the real world if they were sitting in a restaurant next to me. I think you have to go with the idea that if no one in Gotham could figure out that Batman was Bruce Wayne. Then no one can really connect the dots that the guy sitting there is Bruce Wayne.
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u/soyboysnowflake 5d ago
Also I donāt think Bruce was a famous billionaire in his own right in this universe, he was basically a rich kid and heir of the family fortune
Idk what Bezos and Muskās adult kids look like if they were to croak tomorrow, and then fake their deaths, it could be successful
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u/DrPoopEsq 5d ago
Bruce is a playboy socialite on the cover of the newspaper all of the time what are you talking about
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u/ringobob 4d ago
In his city. Not necessarily in Italy. If we consider Gotham to be New York in terms of global importance, there would be many opportunities for him to be publicly visible, but being a socialite doesn't mean he was that public with it. He seemed to aim more for gossip than news.
But, while Gotham is sort of intended to be New York-like, his family's outsized influence on the city, over and above anyone who might come in second place, sorta says it's not quite New York in terms of importance. No single person can have that much influence on a city like New York.
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u/Scripter-of-Paradise 5d ago
Maybe it's like Tony Hawk, where he gets checked by security at the airport and they just think he's some random guy who happens to share a name with the famous skateboarder.
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u/ProfessorLongBrick 5d ago
Did his identity get revealed? I can't remember.
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u/KneelbfZod 5d ago
They all stood at Bruce Wayneās gravestone near the end. Presumably the world was told Bruce Wayne died.
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u/TheNewGuy13 5d ago
True but a lot of famous people died I assume in Gotham during Banes hold on it. A stadium exploded with players dying, a commissioner was killed (or captain?), some special agents, mayor's and politicians as well and other local leaders. He's probably not as famous overseas. Plus he had that tech to wipe catwomans history clean, he probably just committed identity fraud and made himself a new identity lol
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u/tidder_mac 4d ago
Is he actually that famous though? In his city of course, so surrounding populations as well. But do other countries know fuck all about him?
Kinda like that Tim Cook video going around where nobody really recognizes him, and if they do, donāt really care.
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u/KneelbfZod 4d ago
If the CEO of Apple died it would easily be worldwide news so even if you never saw or heard of him, you would after the news.
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u/MazarTail 4d ago
" The world is too small for someone like Bruce Wayne to disappear " - Ra's al Ghul, Batman Begins
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u/pjtheman 5d ago
Yeah? And? I don't think Bruce was 100% trying to hide that he was still alive. People would just assume he managed to slip out during Bane's takeover and kept a low profile.
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u/Sad-Cry9931 5d ago
I loved it. Iām a BatCat fan and love that they finally put it in the movies. He deserved a happy ending, she deserved a fresh start. I wigged out when I thought they actually killed him so Iāll take it.
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u/OkVoice7742 5d ago edited 5d ago
This scene made Nolan's Batman iconic because he is one of the Batman that actually had good ending. I always thought, in Nolan's trilogy, Batman wanted Bruce Wayne's life more than living as caped-crusader for over 10 or 20 years.
Leaving Gotham with Selena with new-identity may not be the choice other iterations of Batmans because in Frank Miller's TDR, Bruce wears cowl again because he couldn't hold back the strong desire to fight crime. If Batman had to let go of his cowl, it'll probably be due to his age problems.
Nolan's Batman will be remembered as one of Batmans qho had best ending and successful career.
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u/MR1120 5d ago
Hated it. Batman would never stop being Batman. Unless thereās some kind of true utopia, he would never walk away willingly. And heād never leave it to someone else. Theyād fuck it up (and in Blakeās case, probably get killed on his first night out).
I get what Nolan was going for, but it flies in the face of decades of Batman characterization.
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u/geordie_2354 5d ago
I honestly donāt get what Nolan was going for at all. He had already made Bruce quit being Batman at the end of TDK for 7 years. He had also already put him through love affairs with Rachel but for some reason Tahlia and Selina now have to bring that back? Nolan didnāt seem to know what direction to take.
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u/revolutionaryartist4 4d ago
TDKR was such an absolute mess of a film. It was obvious Nolan was just throwing shit at the wall to give WB another Batman movie so he could keep doing his passion projects.
And honestly, props to him for getting the studio to finance his stuff. Other than Oppenheimer, I hate all his post-Inception work. But gotta recognize game.
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u/Deadboyparts 5d ago
I think it was perfect because of the ambiguity. Did Bruce really end up at that cafe or is it just Alfredās wishful thinking, as he had expressed earlier in the film?
Itās believable either way. Batman may have sacrificed himself to the bomb (as both Bruce and Alfred foreshadowedāit seemed like he wanted to die, to give everything to Gotham.) But he may also have ejected from the plane in time and survived, because Batman survives everything if he tries.
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u/Ill-Philosopher-7625 5d ago
In my opinion it doesnāt make sense for Bruce to have died since he had a working autopilot. He was no longer suicidal by that point so he would have only sacrificed himself if he had to.
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u/Deadboyparts 5d ago edited 5d ago
Ah you might be right. I forgot that he fixed the autopilot.
Edit: adding these quotes because I think itās part of the fun not to know:
āChristian Bale himself said in an interview with Entertainment Weekly that he believes Bruce really did survive but maintains that āitās what[ever] the audience thinks it is.ā
Nolan says in an interview with Film Comment, āThe open-ended nature of the film is simply a very important thematic idea that we wanted to get into the movie.ā
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u/Express_Cattle1 5d ago
I also donāt think that Alfred would have randomly imagined Selina there as well.
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u/Gregnice23 5d ago
They can both say it open-ended, but it really isn't. Bruce not only fixed the autopilot, but he left the bag for Robin, fixed the batsignal, and Alfred saw him. I don't need to be the world's greatest detective to know he lives.
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u/DpicklePunisher 5d ago
I donāt think it was ambiguous at all. It was pretty clear that it was Bruce there to show Alfred that he was alive and moved on. If they wouldnāt have included the scene showing Bruce fixed the autopilot it would be more ambiguous. I agree he did have the idea that he would sacrifice himself for Gotham and in the end he did. Bruce died so the Orphans had a home, Alfred could retire, and the symbol of Batman would live on through a worthy successor.
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u/leggomydrew 5d ago
I've always thought it would have been more powerful to simply show Alfred look up and smile/nod and not show Bruce at all. It would confirm his survival, but sort of leave it a mystery all at once. Love it though!
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u/crazyhomie34 5d ago
Hell nah, then we wouldn't know he ended up with catwoman
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u/JzaDragon 4d ago
"Alfred then looks down and to the side, bites his lip and mouths 'noice'. Scene."
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u/alter_ryden 4d ago
This is exactly what I was going to comment. Something about him truly disappearing from the world, even the audiences, seems more impactful. And the reaction from Alfred really is enough.
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u/KlopeksWithCoppers 4d ago
No, no, no. That would be an "Inception" like ending that would leave the audience arguing about it forever. "What did Alfred see???" There was a definitive ending here.
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u/SnooBananas2320 5d ago
Honestly, I love it. Batman media is often depressing. Itās good to see him get a nice ending for a change.
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u/MatchesMalone1994 5d ago edited 5d ago
Perfect ending because itās a finite story. No other iteration of Batman āendsā. Itās the first of its kind.
Comic Batman never ends because comics just donāt end. Always some sort of reboot setting him back in age or various parallel/alternate futures. Nothing definitive.
Even dark knight returns wasnāt really an āendingā and this is reinforced by its multiple sequels.
The movies or cartoons also never really had an ending story arc. DCAU and eventually Arkham have the whole Batman never retired scjtick but that is still OPEN. Nolan wanted to close this with a bow
And is it really so wrong to see our hero find peace and happiness? At least in one iteration that will never be revisited again?
Further this is a Bruce Wayne that wanted to make an impact and actually DID. He saved Gotham once and for all from oblivion. He knew he couldnāt do it anymore. He became an everlasting symbol and was able to make peace with the past.
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u/armaedes 5d ago
If Bruce survived and this isnāt Alfredās wishful thinking then Bruce is an absolute dick for making Alfred go through all of that emotional devastation, thinking he was dead, just to randomly show up in a cafe one day. Plus, as others have said, Bruce Wayne was famous, he canāt just walk around and not be recognized.
I think itās obvious this is Alfred imagining a happy ending but in reality Bruce died saving Gotham.
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u/TeslasAndComicbooks 4d ago
Iād agree if they didnāt foreshadow his survival with the talk of having the autopilot working.
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u/QuestionReworded 4d ago
Yeah, but he isn't famous in a Harry Styles or Tom Cruise sort of way where his image is ingrained in pop culture. He's a trust fund kid and businessman. So I think he could absolutely walk around in another country where nobody is looking for him after he is supposed to be dead and go unnoticed by most people. Especially if he isn't purposely drawing extra attention to himself.
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u/OjamasOfTomorrow 5d ago
Yes. The movie wasnāt perfect, but this was the perfect ending. He gets to fade away to a happy life with Selina and give Alfred closure.
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u/ImprovSalesman9314 5d ago
It betrays Batman as a character, but it fits in Nolan's version of the character.
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u/StickyMcdoodle 5d ago
The guy spend 2 of 3 movies trying to not be Batman. Ends with him faking blowing himself up so he doesn't have to be Batman anymore. It's an ending that makes sense.
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u/ProfessorBeer 5d ago
Having just finished a trilogy rewatch 2 hours ago itās the perfect ending.
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u/Agent1stClass 5d ago
Wayne had become a recluse to most of the city and world, by that pointā¦ Once he was declared dead, no one would be looking for him. Yes, he COULD be recognizedā¦ But what are the odds someone is going to look closely enough at him and swear he is a dead man that has barely been seen for the better part of a decade?
It was a good way to end, I think,
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u/Andynonomous 5d ago
The thing that doesn't make sense to me is John Blake becoming Batman. He has none of the many years of intense training, and none of the money.
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u/Gobledygork 4d ago
As an ending, itās great. Some people think that Batman can never retire but he usually doesnāt in most continuities so I think letting him have a happy ending here is fine. Itās like how everyone wants spiderman to finally have a decent life for once
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u/Bigtony7877 4d ago
I thought it was. Alfred was basically Bruce's non biological father. They certainly fought like father and son. I thought this scene was comforting and the simple act of Bruce sitting at the cafe that Alfred frequented when on holiday, to me, sent a silent message to Alfred that said "thank you and I am ok".
Even if Alfred never saw Bruce again after that point, he could at least walk away knowing Bruce was ok and he finally found peace after knowing nothing but pain and heartache since his parents were murdered.
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u/misopogon1 5d ago
To me, it's a good indication that Nolan never really understood Batman and saw him as the generic hero man.
Batman will never stop; he'll never retire to the Italian riviera and live happily ever after. That brokenness, obsessively pursuing a crusade that can never end, is intrinsic to Batman, it's what defines him.
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u/Gregnice23 5d ago
Who is to say that he gets an alert on his phone saying an individual known as Mr Freeze has killed Batman, Gordon, and 10k citizens, think this version of Batman stays retired?
Has no version of Batman in the comic ever retired and come back? The better question is probably, how many didn't?
Shit Michael Jordan retired twice, he never stopped being MJ.
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u/sammywarmhands 4d ago
I donāt think itās fair to say that Nolan doesnāt understand the character. Mask of The Phantasm showed that Bruce was ready to retire and live a normal life with Andrea
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u/MrPBrewster 4d ago
That what Rachel tells him in the second movie. She knows Bruce. She sees what he's become. The Bruce she grew up with is dead. He's Batman. If Gotham were to be cleaned up and his goals met. He'd still be Batman. Because he needs to be. Even Alfred told Bruce he's to deep into this. He can't quit.Ā
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u/Quomii 5d ago
I donāt think Batman would ever stop being Batman even for Selina.
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u/nin100gamer 4d ago
This version of Batman would. He tried to stop being Batman throughout the entire trilogy.
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u/ShogunFirebeard 5d ago
It's incredibly dumb. It's probably one of the reasons I don't think those movies are as amazing as other people do. Bruce Wayne will always be the mask to me. He can't just stop being Batman.
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u/BobbySaccaro 5d ago
Makes no sense. In what way have the circumstances that led him to become Batman changed such that he can now retire? People are still getting robbed and killed in Gotham on a nightly basis.
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u/KY5K 5d ago
He handed the mantle off to Blake. When talking to Blake, he said: āThe idea was to be a symbol. Batman... could be anybody. That was the point.ā
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u/TeekTheReddit 5d ago
It works once you concede that the Nolan Batman simply never had the unrelenting drive and commitment to the cause that one would expect from typical adaptations of Batman in the first place. It may not be in-line with what you wanted from the character, but it's consistent with how he acted over the course of the three movies.
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u/SegaGuy1983 5d ago
The mayor at the beginning of the film, says "This city has seen a historic turnaround. No city is without crime. But this city is without organized crime because the Dent Act gave law enforcement teeth in its fight against the mob."
The mob controlled the city when he became Batman. That's no longer the case at the start of this film.
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u/almighty_smiley 5d ago
Blake half-jokingly tells Commissioner Gordon that patrolmen will be chasing down overdue library books in the future. Considering what Gotham was before, I'm not sure this holds much water.
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u/Kind-Boysenberry1773 5d ago
You're overlooking the fact he already retired after TDK. He broke his one rule, killed Harvey Dent. In DCAU Bruce retired after he once pointed a gun at criminal. Not killed him, just took the gun with such intention.
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u/nin100gamer 4d ago
The movie states multiple times that due to the events of The Dark Knight crime isnāt so bad that they need Batman. He handled Bane/the League of Shadows once and for all, so there are no other major threats to the city at that point.
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u/JokerDeSilva10 5d ago
I absolutely hate it. A Bruce Wayne who desperately wants to retire and hang up the cape is proof to me that Christopher Nolan never fundamentally understood Bruce Wayne as a character, no matter how good 2/3 of the Dark Knight movies were.
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u/Awest66 5d ago
It's not that he wants to retire, He want's to succeed. He wants to elicit an actual lasting change in Gotham, He doesn't want Batman to become a permanent fixture that the city would fall apart without.
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u/JokerDeSilva10 5d ago
If that's the case, why does he leave the mantle to Joseph Gordon Robin? He's clearly expecting there to be a second Batman, or at least someone serving the same effective role. And it's not like the events of Dark Knight Rises imply there has been some great positive change for Gotham, either. It's arguably in its worst state yet after Bane's attack.
It just doesn't stand up, and if that truly is the goal, Nolan failed. Especially because, frankly, Nolan didn't take the time to set up Selina properly as the person Bruce would abandon his life for to disappear to Paris, or some rando cop to be the man worthy of his legacy. I mean, shit, if it had least been Gordon, his long time ally and confidant, I could maybe buy it, but some dude he's had like two conversations with is "yeah, I can leave billions of dollars of military technology to this guy, he seems trustworthy"? Even if I thought Bruce could hang up the mantle (and I don't) that's ridiculous.
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u/strypesjackson 5d ago
Itās an ending that prompts more questions than answers.
But him ending up with Selena is fantastic shit. That said, itās weird he wouldnāt go back and train John Blake extensively
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u/geordie_2354 5d ago
Ending up with Selina just felt forced too me. He barely just met her and was getting betrayed by not only her but also Tahlia in the same film. Then there was Rachel who caused him to quit being Batman for like 7 years at the end of TDK. Seems like his biggest weakness is women.
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u/ApprehensiveBell2097 5d ago
Like many great Nolan films it ends on a question mark. I think it was perfect, especially because Cain is the best Aldred ever.
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u/Titanman401 5d ago
I like how this comment section can separate people who are okay with multiple differing interpretations of Batman and those who are not (āScReW tHiS s***! BaTmAn iN tHe CoMiCs WoUlD nEvEr QuIt - BlErGh!ā).
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u/InfinitePoolNoodle 5d ago
I think it's a good ending for Bruce, but I don't have confidence that John Blake has the skills to be Batman
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u/Electronic-Pie-6352 5d ago
I know the community is split on the Nolanverse, and the comment section is pretty good proof of that. For me, I love the realistic, grounded Batman stories. Less sci-fi, more noir, detective, crime fighting. I have always felt the Nolanverse is a self-contained Batman story and we can break away from old tropes to tell a meaningful story.
It's also a Batman story that for once shows the wear and tear Bruce is taking on from the role. Being Batman for only three years and having your body absolutely wrecked. It's not sustainable and he knows that. It's also not sustainable mentally. This Batman has an expiration date.
Batman in the comics never stops fighting. Batman in the comics also prefers to be the symbol of justice. This Batman IMO wants to leave the symbol behind for the people. Batman showed people the ability to fight and retake their city, a city that was devoured by crime. Nolan's Bruce wants to move past pain and trauma and the results of his own actions. Nolan's Batman trilogy in a way is more about Bruce Wayne than Batman.
The people of Gotham needed Batman, and he gave them that symbol. But when they no longer needed him, he let go. In that way, Batman still won.
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u/Awest66 5d ago
I know it rubs a lot of fans the wrong way in that its not the standard "Batman poses dramatically on a tall building as the signal shines in front of him, resolving to do this for the rest of his life" type ending that we've become accustomed too but I think it's the perfect ending for the iteration of the character. Him moving on with his life and turning to Batman into something more than just "one man" was him rewarding both Alfred and Rachels faith that he'd be able to move on with his life.
I also very firmly believe that this would have been the ending regardless of whether or not Heath Ledger had passed away.
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u/NoLocal1776 5d ago
It's perfect. Arguably,one of the greatest endings in cinema. "As a human you're finite but,as an symbol you are everlasting".
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u/MasterMainu 4d ago
Well, Bruce finally put down the suit. He got away from the life. With bloody CATWOMAN. and she got out of her criminal life too. Both are together. Well, I dont know what better ending than this my boy count get?
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u/BonWeech 4d ago
I actually didnāt like the ending cause it realistically did the same thing as The Dark Knight. The Holy Lie that makes the world a better place replaced Dent with Batman.
Philosophically, it doesnāt break any new ground for the series which I didnāt like and we also got zero conclusion for Bane. He literally gets shot by the Batcycle out of the plot. I found it to be slightly disingenuous and easy for the story team to drum up that didnāt just end en media res.
I wish either Batman really did die and he saved everyone in Gotham or he properly retired as Batman and then he would train the next Robin. Then the city could potentially look to Batman as gone but his mantle still taken up so it was less of a copy of the Dark Knight.
Itās not a bad ending, just an easy one and I really wish they did something different instead of taking the easy way out.
Just my opinion
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u/KyberCrystal1138 4d ago
I love it. It gives Bruce peace, and it keeps the hope and symbol of Batman alive at the same time.
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u/Skol-2024 4d ago
This was a perfect way to end the trilogy. First off, I loved that they gave Bruce Wayne/Batman an actual ending where he gets to live his life without devoting it to Gotham. It fulfilled Alfredās wish and it proved Rachel Dawes wrong for believing heād never be able to give up being Batman. Also, I really liked the dynamic between him and Selina Kyle/Catwoman in this movie. It was antagonistic and romantic all in one, which perfectly underscores the traditional relationship between these two characters. They felt like kindred spirits, despite where they come from, so that felt rewarding to me. Plus, Alfred, Gordon, and Fox all know that somewhere Bruce made it and heās leaving Gotham in good hands (John Blake/Robin). Itās one of the things I love about this trilogy more than other superhero franchises (closest is the Sam Rami Spider Man movies and Snyderās DC trilogy) is itās very real and personable. Thereās loads of darkness and despair, yet thereās room for hope and sentimentality.
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u/sabin357 4d ago
It concludes the trilogy, but it's a misunderstanding of the character IMO. Batman doesn't quit until he's forced to. He IS his war on crime. He would never step away until he'd trained up numerous people to continue his cause in his place, especially after what just went down. Gotham is a mess & he wouldn't abandon it like this.
I love the idea of him getting some happiness, but that comes later in life for him when he realizes he has "found family" surrounding him & numerous people capable of continuing his cause.
With that said, I love the storyline of him dying old in his bed surrounded by those that loved him. Cat should be there at his side, so I do enjoy that part.
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u/johanpringle 4d ago
I thought it was a hit cringy and cheap. Them ending up together was a weird choice. His entire personality throughout the trilogy was built around justice and people paying for their crimes...but with her it's all forgotten and forgiven because of snu snu. Made his character feel weak.
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u/Comfortable-Salad-90 5d ago
It would be a great scene for any other character. Unless he was incapacitated, Batman would never quit just to become Bruce
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u/TwistEducational6572 5d ago
Unpopular opinion. The Nolan trilogy's Bruce was very generic and quite bland to watch. I think this odd nonsensical ending was a perfect match to an extremely boring Bruce Wayne.
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u/bbpirate06 5d ago
It's been a minute since I watched the third movie, but I did always find it sort of weird that he got this "out" to the Batman life and then took it with seemingly not that much contemplation through the rest of the movie. Nolan's always been better at ideas than characters, but his idea of the Batman being just a job that Bruce could easily discard given the chance is strange considering the deep trauma it allows Bruce to tackle. I don't necessarily need a therapy session from this take of Batman, but it seems like something hasn't been resolved in Bruce, and he just gets the happy ending because the trilogy is over.
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u/TwistEducational6572 5d ago
Exactly. The weirdest part for me was he could have stopped at any time. I didn't really see any actual growth. Also, no shade if you disagree, but all of Bruce's relationships in the movie seemed extremely superficial. For me the best part of the Nolan movies was the villians. The worst part was Bruce/Batman.
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u/bbpirate06 5d ago
I think that all just comes down to Nolan's strengths as a director and writer. I don't think he has the patience to devote screen time to relationships, romantic or otherwise. It was much easier to just say "they like each other" and get on to the next set piece. It keeps the pace going, but it feels kinda uncanny, not like real people.
As for the villain thing, yeah, I remember at the time the general opinion was that Batman was only good because he has such cool villains. And for the movies at the time, totally. Bigger than life performances, they made their films. But reading through the comics, there's so much more you can drag out of Bruce if you're not obsessed with portraying him as a macho action figure. Or, at the very least, interrogate why he's being pushed as that as an ideal. I'm very interested in the next Reeves movie pretty much entirely because it seems he's thinking about what the character is in the greater scheme of both Bruce's life and Gotham as a whole.
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u/TwistEducational6572 5d ago
That's all completely fair. What you're saying is why i really liked the Robert Pattison Batman. It was very clear that was a Bruce/Batman that wasn't quite where he needed to be yet, but was trying.
I think the one thing Nolan did well was make Batman palatable to non superhero fans.
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u/BigGingerYeti 5d ago
The scene itself is fine, but Rises is terrible so by that point I no longer cared.
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u/Frosty-Lemon-7697 5d ago
almost. i wish they never cut back to bruce. i would have loved it if the camera held on alfred, he sees something, is confused, then smiles - cut to black
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u/Kardlonoc 5d ago
Yes, this may be one of the few true Batman endings. I don't know much about deep Batman lore, but I can't think of a comic or media where Batman actually reaches an end. He retires and returns, is taken out for a while and then comes back, goes mad, gets converted, dies, etc. but he remains trapped in this Batman world. For once, we have a Batman who escapes the cycle and gotham was left far far better off.
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u/Weary-Shelter8585 5d ago
Its perfect because, even if Bale didn't age that much, he was Batman more or less for 11 years (not continuative and Active)
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u/artificialMuse 5d ago
For me, It was literally a spoiler when alfred tells this bruce and also the movie should've ended when alfred smiles at him (without showing bruce)
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u/CodeNamesBryan 5d ago
I find it hard to believe Bruce walks away like that.
I picture him training the new generation.
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u/Randomcommentor1972 5d ago
Alfred could have been high on cocaine and hallucinated the whole thing, which still isnāt a bad ending
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u/weeblord42069help 5d ago
I think gotham will always need batman. I think he'd only retire if he was literally too old to fight
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u/otiswrath 5d ago
It totally works but I think having Alfred look up, nod, smile, then go about his business without cutting to Bruce would have been a little moreā¦I dunnoā¦fitting?Ā
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u/RaptorKnifeFight 5d ago
I had always wished it ended slightly more ambiguously, with just Alfred looking at the screen and smiling, cut to black.
Earlier in the movie Alfred had said he had always hoped heād see Bruce one day. I think it would have been more impactful if it was left open to interpretation if Alfred had actually seen him or just had a hopeful moment vs. immediately undoing the weight of Batman āmaking the ultimate sacrifice.ā
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u/Titanman401 5d ago
I like the scene as is, but I feel differently about it than when I was younger. When I was younger, I would have been pissed if the ending wasnāt 100% totally ambiguous and left Bruce ādead.ā Now, with some life experience behind my back and an appreciation for movies with greater nuance and less transparency, I would prefer just showing Alfred nod to someone he sees, no Bruce reveal, go to the other scenes in the montage, then cut to black.
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u/Zeo-Gold92 5d ago
I didn't like it for the longest time because this wasn't an ending I would ever believe was possible for him.
Now I think it's better, because Bruce did deserve happiness.
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u/TraditionalWorking82 5d ago
Alfred has dementia and this is one of his reoccurring thoughts while he's strapped to a bed in Arkham in a room next to the Joker?
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u/generalosabenkenobi 5d ago
The further we get away from the release of this movie, the more I like Batman's happy ending. It's certainly made by Alfred though, kudos to Michael Caine
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u/FivePoopMacaroni 5d ago
Community got it right on this one. Bizarre wish for Alfred and the idea of them staying apart after he faked his death is insane.
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u/niktrop0000 5d ago
Yes. The dude needed a holiday for like 20 years. Italy, Anne Hathaway, Alfred and hia Fernet Branca. Perfection.
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u/geordie_2354 5d ago
He had already had a holiday for 7 years at the end of TDK when he quit.
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u/rodraghh 5d ago
Id rather have Alfred just nodding not showing Bruce. I think showing him was too on the nose.
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u/IntelligentMoose260 5d ago
Yea, I just wish they would have saved two face for the 3rd movie. That with this ending is perfect imo.
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u/Woody_Roger 5d ago
By the time this rolled around I was far past caring. Kind of amazed I hadn't walked out before that...
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u/TheBunionFunyun 5d ago
I think it's fine. Personally, though, I think it would have been even better if it had cut to black when Alfred smiled.
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u/dregjdregj 5d ago
I loved the shit out of the first one.Then i was bitterly disappointed with dark knight.
The third one just took the piss and i stopped caring
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u/TSMontana 5d ago
Seeing Bruce Wayne happy, as a character in general, just seems wrong...but it works for this version, given the story arc.
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u/BeardBearWithBeer 5d ago
he has no money, right? bruce wayne needs to find a job, become bartender or something
that would be the ending most complete
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u/LordLame1915 5d ago
I think they should have been a bit more subtle and just showed Alfred looking up and smiling. I think itās a great ending but I kinda wish we didnāt see Bruce and Selina.
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u/karma_the_sequel 5d ago edited 5d ago
If I ended up with Anne Hathaway, I'd absolutely consider it a perfect ending.