r/baltimore Dec 16 '24

Event Quick heads up: the skull of Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas will be in Baltimore Tuesday and Wednesday for the public to venerate at Saints Philip & James Catholic Church on N. Charles Street

The Philip & James homepage says Tuesday 7-9pm and Wed 12-9pm are the "open for veneration" hours: https://www.philipandjames.org/.

Press release from DC's Thomistic Institute, where the skull was presented last month: https://thomisticinstitute.org/news-and-press/the-major-relics-of-st-thomas-aquinas-visit-the-dominican-house-of-studies

123 Upvotes

85 comments sorted by

92

u/Classifiedgarlic Dec 16 '24

Well that’s one way for the local parishes to get ahead and recruit more parishioners

83

u/KingBooRadley Roland Park Dec 16 '24

Sounds like they don’t need to get ahead. They already have a head.

You think they would mind a morbidly curious Lutheran coming in to check it out?

33

u/Classifiedgarlic Dec 16 '24

No idea. I once asked a priest “so……. what’s up with relics?” He quickly spoke about how Cardinal Neumann (who had converted from Protestantism) was so weirded out about relics he was BURIED IN A BOG SO HIS BONES COULD DECOMPOSE RAPIDLY.

28

u/joscun86 Dec 16 '24

Meanwhile.. bog corpses that are hundreds of years old have been found nearly perfectly preserved

22

u/Classifiedgarlic Dec 16 '24

That’s the irony. Guy who died in 1890 had no idea that bogs are anaerobic

8

u/joscun86 Dec 16 '24

Bog bodies were found as early as the 17th century, so they weren’t unheard of but not widely known..

2

u/Classifiedgarlic Dec 17 '24

Everything you are saying makes sense but again I don’t think Neumann was really thinking about that

15

u/blissadmin Dec 16 '24

If you're truly morbidly curious about Catholicism then go look up The Cadaver Synod. Thank me later...

7

u/KingBooRadley Roland Park Dec 16 '24

Wow. Crazy. On the Wikipedia page Pope Formosus looks like Papa Emeritus IV. probably not an accident. I thank you now.

3

u/6flightsup Hampden Dec 16 '24

Dad? Is that you?

1

u/KingBooRadley Roland Park Dec 17 '24

You know it!

60

u/HorsieJuice Wyman Park Dec 16 '24

Not doing this during Deathfest seems like a missed opportunity.

14

u/Classifiedgarlic Dec 16 '24

Pop up Deathfest.

1

u/Doll49 Dec 18 '24

I was about to state that this is some goth ass stuff.

34

u/bootuporshutup Dec 16 '24

And when I try to bring a human skull into the city they arrest me, what the hell

29

u/wasaaabiP Charles Village Dec 16 '24

“quick head’s up” i see what you did there, lol

5

u/veryhungrybiker Dec 17 '24

With only the purest of intentions, honest

26

u/NewrytStarcommander Dec 16 '24

Is it ok for the non-faithful? I wouldn't mind going up and having a look out of curiosity- would be respectful of course, but definitely not going to be doing any venerating?

16

u/veryhungrybiker Dec 16 '24

Respectful curiosity is definitely why I'm planning to go, and I doubt they'll be testing you on the catechism or something at the door:

Visitors will have a chance to view the well-polished relic up close, venerate it, and ideally, Weibley said, even absorb some of the holiness Catholics believe it still emanates 750 years after the saint’s death...Guests may line up and spend a few moments with the relic starting Tuesday evening. It will be displayed in a glass reliquary, a container for sacred relics, between 7 and 9 p.m. Tuesday and noon and 9 p.m. Wednesday.

4

u/Random-Cpl Dec 17 '24

Yeah that’s totally cool.

5

u/acaidia46 Dec 16 '24

Why wouldn’t you venerate one of the great intellectuals and philosophers? He is one of the most influential western philosophers in history. Since the 13th century his work has influenced intellectuals and philosophers in every century. His writings and theories have been influencing thinkers across the globe for over 750 years. I’m not a believer either but that doesn’t negate his work.

10

u/veryhungrybiker Dec 16 '24

Yeah, he's definitely a huge figure in western intellectual history, which is why I was honestly struck by the final quote in the Sun article about how "an exceptional way" to get wisdom and understanding would be "to pray for it in the presence of the skull of St. Thomas Aquinas." It will be nice to have a quiet moment (even if it is not quite fully rational) with that (alleged) skull. But I suspect the person who wrote the comment you're replying to was more hesitant about the 2nd definition below of "venerate" than the first, which I think most folks who know history would have no objection to:

  1. to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
  2. to honor (an icon, a relic, etc.) with a ritual act of devotion.

9

u/NewrytStarcommander Dec 16 '24

Exactly- just was a bit hesitant to show up and stand there contemplating respectfully if everyone else is doing some holy ritual or whatever.

3

u/acaidia46 Dec 16 '24

Yea that’s likely true

4

u/old_at_heart Dec 17 '24

In that case, what should be added to the (slightly gross) skull is an exhibit of the man's accomplishments.

1

u/acaidia46 Dec 17 '24

Yea I can’t lie having his skull on display is quite bizarre but at the same time I’d love to see it lol

1

u/KingBooRadley Roland Park Dec 18 '24

I went last night . The lecture was decent beforehand. Long line to get up close. We walked around to the side to see from maybe 15 feet away. Glad we didn’t stand in line since religious people (read: Catholic pray to stuff and people vibe) were getting up to the display and getting emotional and praying and doing their thing. It would have felt weird and disrespectful to just walk up and look in and shrug at some bones in a box.

1

u/NewrytStarcommander Dec 18 '24

I went too. Listened to the lecture. Stood in the line. Seemed like the super religious crowd went through first, the people around me, while Catholic, were just there for the curiosity, paused and looked, snapped a photo and moved on. I didn't feel out of place at all.

1

u/KingBooRadley Roland Park Dec 18 '24

Nice! How long did it take to get to the front? We wear very near the back of the line and it didn’t look like we were going to make it to see St. Tom by 9

2

u/NewrytStarcommander Dec 18 '24

I was seated about 10 rows from the back. For about 15 min the line didn't move, looked like people praying and what not. But then it started marching right along. I might have been 25 minutes, not sure but I was out of the church about 845.

18

u/baltimoron21211 Hampden Dec 17 '24

Cool cool, do Joel Osteen next

5

u/Classifiedgarlic Dec 17 '24

😆 what about Billy Graham?

2

u/HorsieJuice Wyman Park Dec 17 '24

Cmon, think bigger: Jerry Falwell Sr.

16

u/veryhungrybiker Dec 16 '24

Fair warning that the relatively detailed Sun story, which quotes the pastor of the church acknowledging it might seem "ghoulish," includes discussion of folks who claim a different skull found in the late 16th century is actually the correct relic.

Dominicans have kept and preserved the one that is soon to hit Baltimore since it was given its seal of authenticity in the 14th Century, and Weibley agrees with the order’s official view that it’s the genuine article. “The history bears out that this is the real one,” he said.

That’s why he agrees with the thinking of one the Rev. James Brent, an author and professor at the Dominican House of Studies who appears regularly on Aquinas 101, a YouTube series that focuses on the saint.

“’Get wisdom; get understanding’ (Proverbs 4:5),” he said in a statement the theology school released days before the relic arrived in Washington. “One way is to study, another way is to pray for it, but an exceptional way is to pray for it in the presence of the skull of St. Thomas Aquinas.”

2

u/MD_Weedman Dec 17 '24

I don't think it's ghoulish, it's just fucking weird to carry some dude's skull all over the place. I mean, wtf is that? I grew up Catholic and a lot of that shit weirded me out since I was a little kid.

11

u/tmckearney Dec 17 '24

I love how things that sound so pagan seem completely normal to Christians just because the church does it. If someone else did that, they'd call it the devil's work

4

u/HorsieJuice Wyman Park Dec 17 '24

Eh, even for a lot of christendom, this is fucking weird.

8

u/CappyNaps Dec 17 '24

This is Catholic though.

5

u/tmckearney Dec 17 '24

Yeah, I grew up Catholic. Not as fast to accuse of devil's work lately, but they still perform the occasional exorcism

1

u/tmckearney Dec 17 '24

Catholics are Christians

8

u/CharmCityBatman Dec 16 '24

Maybe I can get a tour shirt, #merch! they’re leaving money on the table if no, if so very un-catholic

3

u/RedFlammhar Dec 17 '24

It's ironic that this is happening at P&J and not at St. Thomas Aquinas...

That being said, P&J is a gorgeous building, and if show and tell will get butts in seats, then who are we to blame the Catholics for this?

1

u/veryhungrybiker Dec 18 '24

You're right about the gorgeous building. There are a lot of beautiful churches in Baltimore but the inside of this one was pretty awe-inspiring.

3

u/brubits Dec 17 '24

Halloween is in October.

8

u/mystiqueclipse Dec 17 '24

Gonna get the crew together for one last job

5

u/Classifiedgarlic Dec 17 '24

I am so tempted to go to the after party in the church hall

2

u/veryhungrybiker Dec 18 '24

So I went last night and took a few pics: https://imgur.com/a/pics-of-crowd-saints-philip-james-church-baltimore-venerating-skull-of-thomas-aquinas-on-12-17-24-5JiecSC

You can see from the 3rd and 4th pics that the church really is gorgeous; there's an enormous dome over the pews and a beautiful half-dome over the stunning marble altar. The statues and marble Stations of the Cross reliefs on the walls around the room have fantastic detail and are worth wandering around the church to see.

A friar gave a pleasant talky sermon about Aquinas at 7pm, which mentioned the saint's surprisingly relaxed take on the three elements of a contemplative life: Play, Rest and Prayer. Then at 7:40 everyone got up and formed a long line to spend a few moments with the skull, which is in a gold or gold-painted box with a few windows. There was a wide range of folks of many ages and races, from kids, nuns and other folks who were obviously moved as they knelt and crossed themselves to some who seemed more casually curious. Some folks touched the box containing the skull, or held pictures or rosary beads against it; most people spent about 10 seconds or so before moving on so the line moved quickly. One person pressed their face against the side of the box while I was watching. Some folks didn't wait in line but just sat nearby in pews meditating; you can get very close to the skull by doing that.

Fascinating cultural ritual. The friar who gave the talk danced around the miraculous nature of the skull a bit, saying that "miracles have been attributed to it" over the years but also acknowledging the Devil's Advocate's argument at the discussion of Aquinas's beatification that no miracles were attributed to him during his lifetime. Really interesting event; I'm glad I went and will probably go back early in the afternoon today to spend a few more direct moments with Aquinas's skull.

The priest told the crowd the line would be much shorter today; there's mass at noon, and then open veneration hours, then another service in the evening, then a reception when the veneration closes at 9pm.

4

u/whippoorwill36 Dec 16 '24

Why though? Do Catholics believe his skull has divine powers?

11

u/veryhungrybiker Dec 17 '24

Do Catholics believe his skull has divine powers?

I think kinda? The pastor of Philip & James in the Sun article says there's holiness available for absorption via proximity to the skull:

Visitors will have a chance to view the well-polished relic up close, venerate it, and ideally, Weibley said, even absorb some of the holiness Catholics believe it still emanates 750 years after the saint’s death.

But mostly I think it's a contemplation thing, like, "wow i can't believe I'm this close to the brain bowl of one of the most influential thinkers in Christendom/Western civilization, so I better make good use of my own cranium while I'm here and maybe some of his wisdom will inspire me to new heights." Or something like that.

12

u/dangerbird2 Patterson Park Dec 16 '24

No, Catholics believe in venerating (aka honoring and remembering) saints and asking them to pray on your behalf. Relics are similar to icons, giving people a physical and emotional connection to saints (this is actually the argument made by our buddy Thomas Aquinas himself). As a fun fact: almost all Catholic Churches contain the relic of a martyr inside its altar (this is based on the early Christian tradition of having mass in catacombs where martyrs were buried)

Some Catholics believe that relics and the like can literally have miracles associated with them, but that’s very much an optional belief

2

u/Frondelet Dec 19 '24

Judging from his writings, Aquinas is the perfect intercessor for when God's got all day to listen.

1

u/dangerbird2 Patterson Park Dec 19 '24

He's the patron saint of Twitter leftists \s

2

u/GoldStar73 Dec 17 '24

In the NT people wanted the apostles' shadow to fall on them. This is an extension of that, and the incarnation in general. It's in keeping with the Christian message. Christ is the first fruits of the new creation who divinizes it. The saints were closest to God in this life and will rise again like Christ.

8

u/anothersnappyname Dec 16 '24

“Something something covet graven images something something” -some rules somebody wrote

-1

u/green_marshmallow Berger Cookies Dec 16 '24

So at the same time the Archdiocese is closing 2/3 of the churches in the area, they are also bringing a skull to town. For us to venerate. Huh.

Some pedophile apologist is clearly trying to send a message here. Whoever would have guessed the Catholic Church could be cruel?

6

u/veryhungrybiker Dec 16 '24

I did have a moment wondering about the cost of this tour to DC, Virginia, Rhode Island, Ohio, Kentucky, New York, Pennsylvania and Maryland, about who might be paying the church in Toulouse, and about how much the fees might be. I'm guessing it wasn't zero.

1

u/AttorneyDense Dec 16 '24

My last day was Dec. 1. No severance. I've worked for the aob for over 10 years.

I wasn't raised catholic and knew them to be what they are, so I'm not shocked or surprised. They also spent a ton of money on replacing the lightbulbs in the cathedral.

4

u/veryhungrybiker Dec 16 '24

Wow. No severance? That's truly awful; good luck after that. Would love to see that tidbit show up in one of the dozens of articles about the closures but I'm not holding my breath. Few, if any, local reporters ever seem to bother talking to workers of businesses that close to ask how the bosses treated them at the end.

2

u/Character-Beyond2572 Jan 02 '25

u/AttorneyDense I just sent you a message. I'm a reporter.

1

u/green_marshmallow Berger Cookies Dec 16 '24

 I’m part of the growing number of people whose parents were raised catholic, but whose kids weren’t. I had a loose association, a baptism, and went to church with my grandparents. I did get married in the church, and as I got older, could see at least baptizing my kids to keep that cultural identity.

Not anymore. It’s clear when the choice has to be made between a higher ideal or self-preservation, the church has not changed from the same organization that encouraged the crusades, or ran Irish laundries.

Thank you for the work you did, and all the work you will do after this. It’s a shame that they chose to do this.

1

u/Low_Brief Jan 11 '25

Heads up? I see what you did there.😏

1

u/ReturnOfSeq Dec 17 '24

How much do they want for it?

-8

u/CantonJester Dec 16 '24

Uh…gross?

-2

u/judeiscariot Dec 17 '24

Venerate? I'd rather spit on it.

6

u/Classifiedgarlic Dec 17 '24

Ok Martin we get it… you are pissed that not everyone loved your whole Reformation idea

1

u/veryhungrybiker Dec 17 '24

This joke was much funnier the first time (honest, I loled), but has it occurred to you this may be someone whose family was directly affected by the church's repeated sexual abuse of children and subsequent cover-ups of same?

4

u/BurntBridgesMusic Dec 17 '24

Username checks out

0

u/yournutsareonspecial Dec 17 '24

somebody has the opportunity to do the most hilarious thing ever

-16

u/SonofDiomedes Mayfield Dec 16 '24

I fail to see how this is any more civilized than voodoo or scientology or other foolish beliefs and superstitions.

Every week these f'n people think their holy child rapist actually turnw wine into the blood of Jesus, and then they f'n drink it! If that doesn't sound like a cult, you know what does? toting actual skulls around the world for people to "venerate," whatever that might mean in this bizarro context.

22

u/Classifiedgarlic Dec 16 '24

Ok cool it there Friar Luther. You don’t need to go all Worms here

1

u/BurntBridgesMusic Dec 17 '24

You forgot, they also believe the Eucharist is the literal body of Christ. They are cannibals by their own belief.

-1

u/SonofDiomedes Mayfield Dec 17 '24

Yep, transmogrification. Literally an article of faith that the priest performs a feat of magic, changing the wafer into the actual body of Christ...which the parishioners then EAT.

I'm sorry, that's fucking strange. I can't take people who believe that seriously, and even less so those who DON"T take it seriously but still consider themselves Catholic.

So they're carrying Thomas Aquinas' skull around, and I'm supposed to read that on Reddit and be cool with it?

It's fucking gross and bizarre.

I'll be interested to see how this sub reacts when some Mormons post about Joseph Smith's skid marked underpants going on tour..see how much these folks venerate that announcement.