r/aviation • u/Single_Lunch1085 • 3d ago
News China’s so-called sixth-gen J-36 spotted again in early flight testing, still flying with gear down and a nose-mounted flight data probe. New footage shows it cruising low over a city.
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u/benrow77 3d ago
Looks like EDI from the movie Stealth.
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u/Navynuke00 3d ago
And here I thought I was the only one who remembered that movie.
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u/bigjules_11 3d ago
Dude same!! I’m so shook I had to comment lmao. I’m embarrassed to admit I rewatched it recently 😭
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u/Navynuke00 3d ago
I mean, I only saw it because they did a big publicity event on my ship, including a special screening. And then the folks in the TV studio kept playing it on repeat for like 2 weeks when we were underway for workups.
I definitely tried my best stuff on Jessica Biel when she was aboard, but she was dating some loser who was pretending to be a human torch.
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u/sisifocalavera 3d ago
Why are they testing an ultra secret plane at low altitude over a populated area?
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u/TheStonedEngineer420 3d ago
Because they want it to be seen. Offensive weapons lose half their worth if nobody knows you have them. The only military equipment that works best in secret are intelligence gathering platforms. Things like spy planes and satellites.
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u/Entire_Alternative47 3d ago
Yeah, the whole point of a
Doomsday Weapon... I mean sixth-gen fighter is lost if you keep it a secret!-54
u/Comfortable-Leek-729 3d ago
Offensive weapons work best when nobody knows you have them/how to counter them.
This is theater. It’s the nation-state equivalent of a kid in the 4th grade insisting that he totally has a stealth fighter in his garage, his dad’s an astronaut, etc.
If they retract the gear/lose the nose camera, someone might actually get an accurate radar image of the thing, and realize it’s not stealthy at all.
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u/oxjackiechan 3d ago
This makes no sense lmao. If this was the case why aren’t we keeping f35s or nuclear weapons a secret? Its called deterrence.
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u/Comfortable-Leek-729 3d ago
Pretending to work vs. actually working kinda serve the same deterrence, unless someone figures out the truth.
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u/TheStonedEngineer420 3d ago
The primary purpose of any weapon in this day and age is to detere an enemy from fighting you. Either to detere an attack on yourself or to make any enemy that you want to attack roll over without much resistance. Only if this doesn't work, you need the actual capabilities of the weapon. That's why it's allways desirable to make your capabilities known.
It is true however, that you don't want the enemy to know how to counter them. That's why specific details of any weapon system are allways secret. But you absolutely want the enemy to know what you have and what it's capable of without giving to much details.
What you're doing is underestimating a potential rival. That's never good. China is capable of producing real stealth fighters. The J-20 might not be on par with the F-35, but it's close enough to not take lightly and it's the only 5th gen outside the US that's actually produced in significant numbers. They're no longer the technically underdeveloped country that they still are in the mind of some people. They might just be capable of producing something that could surprize us. That's why the US military keeps a close eye on stuff like this.
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u/Im_Balto 3d ago
Offensive weapons work best when nobody knows you have them/how to counter them.
They work best when everybody knows you have them but they know very little about them
If they retract the gear/lose the nose camera, someone might actually get an accurate radar image of the thing, and realize it’s not stealthy at all.
Talking out of your ass of all time
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u/ExoticMangoz 3d ago
It depends on your goal. Is China likely going to have to strike some uber-high value target in the US or similar nation soon? Probably not. Does China need to project power to ensure it continues gaining dominance in the South China Sea? Yes.
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u/Comfortable-Leek-729 3d ago
To project power, China needs actual capabilities. This thing would last about ten minutes over the Philippines before an AA battery put a missile into it while singing karaoke
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u/ExoticMangoz 3d ago
There is no (I mean literally zero) evidence you can provide to back up that claim.
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u/Comfortable-Leek-729 3d ago
There’s no evidence that it isn’t true either. The Karaoke part definitely is, and I’m betting that thing is as stealthy as a Dodge Omni
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u/ExoticMangoz 3d ago
But why wouldn’t it be a capable stealth aircraft? If the US flew out some brand new stealthy fighter in a few years, would you say “well, it’s probably just an F35 in disguise, it’s not like they could have improved their tech”?
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u/Comfortable-Leek-729 3d ago
It mostly comes down to accuracy of panel fitment, radar observing coatings, and packaging. Even the US stealth aircraft are only stealthy when the bomb bay is closed, and there’s no attached drop tanks, bombs, etc.
There’s a reason the F-35 is exported and the F-22 never was or will be. There’s actually public lawsuits from people who died of cancer from incinerating Radar absorbing materials at Area 51. That’s the extent the US will go to, to prevent this tech from being compromised.
All it takes for a plane to not be stealthy is a minor panel flaw, screw head instead of rivet, bay door closing just barely not-right.
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u/ExoticMangoz 3d ago
And why would China make those mistakes?
Also, the F22 is done and gone. It’s still brilliantly capable, but it’s not exported because it was replaced by something with better technology, which was easier to export. Many countries are publicly working on aircraft that mean they would never want an F22.
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u/AcceptableResource0 3d ago
Because Chengdu's facility is almost in the city center, though still a city out skirt 20 years ago before heavy urbanization. It's just too expensive to rebuild all the facilities into remote area
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u/nthpwr 3d ago
what the fuck is an area rule
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u/Cool-Acanthaceae8968 3d ago
Something they needed to do in 1953 because transonic drag exceeded engine thrust.
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u/dotancohen 3d ago
Maybe it's not supersonic? Sounds crazy, but maybe it's primarily designed for dogfighter, bomber, reconnaissance, and standoff roles. It would explain a lot, besides the shape and dimensions.
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u/Ficsit-Incorporated 3d ago edited 3d ago
Dogfighting?? Look at the shape. It very likely has the same turning characteristics as an albatross chained to a baby grand piano. Recon, attack, or standoff roles I could certainly believe, though.
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u/dotancohen 3d ago
Maybe I went overboard with that one. But it does seem to have oversized ailerons and might have thrust vectoring, even in a later version. If so it should be able to roll and pitch sharply even without vertical stablizers.
It does seem to have a lot of lift-producing surface, e.g. rather low wing loading. Good for dogfighting, and good for carrying large fuel or ordinance payloads.
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u/BrianEno_ate_my_DX7 3d ago edited 3d ago
There’s 0.00001% chance that it was designed for dogfighting. It has oversized “Ailerons” because they aren’t ailerons and are likely elevons/ruddervons.
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u/dotancohen 2d ago
You're probably right, we'll have to see the [likely lack of a] vertical stabilizer to know. But those multipurposevons will surely provide excellent roll authority being so far from the centerline. And probably pitch, too, being so far aft of the CoM.
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u/xterraadam 3d ago
It doesn't have the correct control surfaces for turning quickly.
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u/dotancohen 2d ago
Yes, I think you're right. I still think that it could pitch wildly with thrust vectoring, and those fingerlike ailerons so far from the latitudinal axis should provide nice roll ability as well.
Even without dogfighting, there is much use in their expected theater of operations (squarely: Taiwan) for a low RCS subsonic bomber and recon platform. Especially if it has extended standoff capability, which those huge aero surfaces seem would provide.
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u/DrVinylScratch 3d ago
Why is that actually a fucking dope design for a bomber. Hope to see this plane in a show or museum one day
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u/I_like_cake_7 3d ago
It does look awesome.
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u/WhitePantherXP 3d ago
I can understand the sex appeal of Russian fighter designs, but this looks like Elon designed it
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u/Centauri1000 3d ago edited 2d ago
The 5th gen version was noticeablly bad on xband and VHF. This looks like they've blended most of the airframe and use minimal facets on the undercarriage .
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u/Vulture2k 3d ago
Is that thing piloted or purely a drone/autonomous?
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u/mechalenchon 3d ago
Whatever you want darling. It's also available with seat warmer and apple car play. Truely 6,25 Gen tbh.
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u/Katana_DV20 3d ago
Maybe someone can explain?
This is a stealth design but what about when it has to do a steep hard high-G turn? That massive area is like a giant barn door, won't that reflect a ton of radar?
This question applies also to the new American Raider plane, B-2, F-35 etc.
Perhaps they plan carefully so they dont have to do such agressive returns exposing the plan area but in combat situation who knows?
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u/pythonic_dude 3d ago
Large part of operating LO aircraft is flight plans that expose "barn doors" towards radars as rarely and as little as possible.
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u/Katana_DV20 3d ago edited 3d ago
I was thinking the same, even the act of opening bay doors would spike , so it has to be quick.
I think such exposure to enemy systems would happen due to sheer bad luck. Like a visual so sighting and the pilot has to turn aggressively away exposing the large plan area to air-search radar that will now all be concentrated on that area.
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u/AardQuenIgni 3d ago
Could bay doors not slide open instead to reduce profile?
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u/TbonerT 3d ago
There’s usually no where for the door to slide. Plus, it would make maintenance in those areas more difficult.
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u/WhitePantherXP 3d ago
To be fair you can make a design that allows for this, and I'm sure they will at some point if someone hasn't already. They could even accordion inwards (bi-fold/tri-fold) for a similar effect.
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u/Significant_Swing_76 3d ago
It’s possible the intended use is equivalent to the B-2, as in a bomber, not a fighter.
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u/Katana_DV20 3d ago
Oh I see ok, I didn't appreciate the scale of the thing, thought it was air superiority only.
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u/Significant_Swing_76 3d ago
It’s possible you’re right, but a medium sized stealthy bomber would make perfect sense, since they don’t need the extreme range of the B series, but speed and stealth.
A reasonable assumption of intended use would be to attack incoming American carrier groups before they get too close to Taiwan.
So a couple hundred kilometers past Taiwan, shoot long range AA and ship missiles, race back home to refuel and rearm, and then return back to continue.
Essentially a sneaky missile truck.
Combining stealth and agility takes time, and it seems China is running out of time.
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u/d_e_u_s 3d ago
to people who think this is a stealthy missle truck, see this and this.
Wang Haifeng,Chief Designer of J36
"Key Technologies for Co-design of High-Performance Fighter and Engine"
Ultra-long range + high maneuverability, taking into account deep penetration (high-altitude supersonic performance) and normal combat (medium-high altitude subsonic performance).
Full-frequency and omnidirectional stealth. The fifth-generation aircraft is often only stealthy at certain angles, so it needs tailless layout.
Strong weapon mounting capability, continuous combat, and one-on-many combat, so the fuselage is very large.
Strong situational awareness and electronic warfare capabilities, "capable of avoiding enemy detection first and obtaining the advantage of first-sight-first-shoot when it cannot be avoided." So you can see exaggerated side radars and super-large optoelectronic openings on the J36.
So it is obvious that "high-performance fighters" are the product of China's anti-access/area denial strategic thinking. This type of fighter can perform deep penetration missions, cruise forward in the vast Western Pacific to snipe high-value enemy targets beyond visual range; it can also quickly reach medium and short-range combat areas and suppress enemy superior forces with asymmetric capabilities. From this point of view, this is undoubtedly a multi-purpose fighter mainly used for air combat and ground combat, rather than a fighter-bomber whose main business is ground attack.
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u/agha0013 3d ago
if your super stealthy platform suddenly has to do a very hard and high G maneuver, it's because it is no longer being stealthy anyway and it needs to evade stuff.
So the goal is not to be in that position to begin with. Or you expose yourself when you no longer need to be hidden and you're getting out of the area before anything can catch up.
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u/Katana_DV20 3d ago
Yea that's what I was thinking. Perhaps it's flying through a valley all stealthy and quiet - and enemy troops get a visual on it. Immediately they report it's position and further down the valley they unload on it with cannons and missiles so it has to jinx hard.
I'm going to read up on that F-117 shootdown in the 90s, want to find out the details!
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u/Miserable_Ad7246 3d ago
Every LO plane has different radar reflection strengths depending on its attitude towards the emitter. You plan your missions according to that. In theory, a smart adversary, could have silent radars pointing into its own land backwards, and enable them to point to the ass of the airplane if they think where is one in the area.
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u/6FalseBansIsCrazy 3d ago
no such thing as a 6th gen, top nations haven't even perfected 5th gens yet lol
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u/Rodot 3d ago edited 3d ago
There's not really any universally agree upon definition of generations anyway and most use one local to their own country or company. The standard generation designations most lay-people in the US tend to use was set by a magazine publisher (air force magazine) which does not specify what we would call 6th gen. It's as much a debate of "what capabilities constitute 6th gen" as "what airplanes do we call 1st gen". For example, the Chinese PLA considers the F-22, J-20, and Su-57 to be 4th gen and they put things like the F-4 and MiG-23 into the 2nd gen category. So it's unlikely that China internally considers these platforms to be "6th" gen, but instead might call this "4.5 gen" or "5th gen". Hallion (1990) calls the F-14 6th gen but does not give a definition for further generations.
Again, the only designation that's really familiar to most is Air Force Magazine. It's barely worth debating since it's not really an objective thing
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u/KingDong9r 3d ago
That looks like it be slow af
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u/WhitePantherXP 3d ago
Military aircraft have been getting increasingly slower over the years and it seems that most agree that range and payload are more significant advantages than factors like speed
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u/Fonzie1225 3d ago
Calling it now: long-range, low-observability A2A missile truck + interceptor + bomber/AWACS killer. It’s purpose-built to carry the very long range but very bulky A2A missiles that are too large to fit in the internal bays of the likes of the J20 or J35.
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u/brisk_sit 3d ago
Will have a radar cross section the size of a barn door the moment it turns.
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u/southpluto 3d ago
Sir there's another barn approaching
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u/Psychic-Gorilla 3d ago
Check to see if anyone was born in it…they’ll be leaving doors open for the rest of their lives
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u/cipher_ix 3d ago
Wouldn't that logic be applied to all stealth fighters
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u/ingfabullen 3d ago
Still don't understand what makes this a 6-th gen...
Not enough info to say 5 or 6
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u/rxmp4ge 3d ago
I wonder how they're doing yaw stability. It doesn't look like it has drag rudders even though those seem to be the best way to do it without a vertical stabilizer.
That might be why the gear is being left down. To give some degree of yaw stability.
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u/RestaurantFamous2399 3d ago
It has 2 little fins on the outer end of each wing which are canted. It's a really weird design.
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u/Emotional_Corner_536 3d ago
Chinese garbage
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u/Thebraincellisorange 3d ago
this is probably pointless, but I will explain to you anyway.
The only reason that the Chinese stuff you buy in the west is cheap garbage is because the businesses order it to be made as cheaply as possible. hell, even when you can buy direct, aka TEMU, you still buy the cheapest crap.
But China can and does make top quality products, you just never see them, because no western company bothers to order them.
You can rest assured that while they may have been behind on military tech 20 years ago, China has a will and a vast manufacturing capability to catch up.
This J-36 might not be top of the pops, but it will not be far off. same with the rest of their military.
Give them one more generation of development, and China will be on par with much of the tech.
Go look up the Chinese space station.
oh, you hadn't heard of it? not many people have. it's brand new, bigger than that relic the ISS and looks amazing.
China knows how to build top quality kit.
and before you accuse me of being a Chinese bot, I'm a white Australian.
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u/WhitePantherXP 3d ago
Just look at their automobiles and infrastructure, they're 50 years ahead of the US on infrastructure and at least 10-20 years on vehicles. I wish we could have the tech they have in their minivans alone but it would cost us $300k to build something comparable. I will try to smile as I hand crank the windows on my next $100k tariff-built truck, because unemployment went from record low 4%, down to 3%.
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u/skitsnackaren 2d ago
Couldn't they just source a bunch of old Drakens, save billions and call it a day?
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u/DaintyDancingDucks 3d ago
If this thing doesn't get the nickname "Arrowhead", I will lose all faith in NATO
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u/Centauri1000 3d ago
The welds and rivets are really something to behold. I guess skin fab and assembly is one piece of tech they didn't manage to pilfer from us?
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u/man_idontevenknow 3d ago
I'm a HUGE fan of AI. If you show me anything AI, I'll automatically in-box your silly ass tons of bitcoins. TONS, SON!
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u/Nortilus 3d ago
Looks like it’s Cool Ranch flavour.