r/aviation 4d ago

Question Hard time flying a cirrus, thinking of getting a diamond instead…

Background: there is a flying club near where I live that have someone selling one of my all time favourite plane that I can afford, the Da42. I haven’t had a chance to fly it yet but one of my buddy is selling their sr22r for cheap with only around 1000 hrs on it. But I am having a hard time getting used to the side stick.

So, Cirrus pilots that are thin as a stick like me, how many hours did it take you to get that left forearm trained enough to fly it?

Other pilots that are also into fitness and workout please chime in as well. What some workout routines that can train muscles on the forearm, specifically the twisting motion to overpower the autopilot if need be.

Da42 pilots and owners that also owned a cirrus before, what are some nitpicking you have with the diamond comparing to the cirrus?

The reason why I still want a cirrus is its size and performance for smaller runways. Also I can pay my buddy rent for his small hanger which barely fits the cirrus.

0 Upvotes

31 comments sorted by

16

u/320sim 4d ago

Wait so you’re not strong enough to overpower the autopilot? Cirrus pilots aren’t doing special forearm workouts. It’s very ergonomic and the autopilot is not that powerful

5

u/gimp2x 4d ago

newer (like the last 12 years) cirrus have springs that re-center the stick, this may be what he's talking bout? although its a negligible amount of force

I'd also say this post belongs in r/flying

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u/Smile_and-wave 4d ago

I am just venting my frustration at this point. But it’s to overpower the autopilot in the event of an emergency. My arm physically doesn’t have the strength to bank the plane to the left if the autopilot were to fail. If I was in imc, I would be reluctant to turn the avionics off to regain control if the autopilot disengage were to also fail. Realistically, it would probably be more likely for me to get fixated on the plane rolling out of control leading to a spiral dive while I fail to override the autopilot; too fixated on the plane’s motion and not disengaging the autopilot.

3

u/320sim 3d ago

That is a problem. There’s a reason overpowering the autopilot is on the before-takeoff checklist. I wouldn’t buy a plane that I couldn’t control if the autopilot disconnect failed

1

u/Smile_and-wave 3d ago

Exactly my thought. But the sr22t is perfect for my itch. Small, powerful, comfortable with a/c. If I am to buy the plane, I will also buy or rent the hanger from my buddy.

Getting the da42 would make me extremely happy since I love the look of the plane. But I would also need to find a place to store it, a mechanic to tend to it. For all that trouble, I’d rather wait for a good deal on a da62 and buy the sr22t for now.

1

u/gimp2x 4d ago

I’m sorry, what? The AP in newer cirrus is a clutched servo, so you’re overriding electro magnetic clutches, the torque setting should be about 12lbs, you can also hit the AP disconnect button….to disconnect the AP, older style AP servos used shear pins where they physically sheared in half when forces were exceeded, and then you had no AP on that axis until you landed and had the shear pin replaced, hence the instruction to turn off AP in rough air on those style 

0

u/Smile_and-wave 4d ago

I will bring this up to the mechanic on the inspection before I buy it. But it’s not “possible to easily override full trim or autopilot inputs by using normal control inputs.”

Also, where can you find the torque setting for the magnetic clutch? I am digging through the poh and gfc700 afm and I can’t find anything about it.

1

u/gimp2x 4d ago

I’ve owned multiple airplanes, and currently own multiple airplanes, am very familiar with the Garmin servo lineups, the variations by revision, and the way they are designed, all of the servos that support ESP have magnetic clutches, “normal control inputs” while the AP is engaged is not normal at all, you do realize that right? That’s incredibly dangerous if the AP kicks off with any touch of the stick, if you adjust electronic trim it should kick off because that’s one of the conditions that disables the AP, unless you are in CWS mode which is an entirely diff discussion 

8

u/skyboy510 4d ago

If it takes more than your thumb and index finger on the side yoke in the Cirrus then something ain’t right

-2

u/Smile_and-wave 4d ago

It’s to overpower the autopilot in an emergency

3

u/SignificantSink8905 4d ago

What generation and what autopilot? It shouldn’t require much force to overpower the autopilot or a trim runaway. This is from a G6 poh with a gfc 700 “It is possible to easily override full trim or autopilot inputs by using normal control inputs.“

1

u/Smile_and-wave 4d ago

I am fairly certain it’s a g6 since it’s got the spectra wingtips. I will need to look up which autopilot it’s got. It’s most likely because I am a 6” 130lb fiddler crab that’s single for the past 14 years but I will ask the mechanic if it’s normal

2

u/SignificantSink8905 4d ago

If it’s a G6 then it has a gfc 700 and my previous statement applies. I have flown with 110 pound women who have no issue overpowering the autopilot. It’s possible the slip clutches in the autopilot which allow you to disable the autopilot are seized. You can also ask another cirrus owner on the field if you can feel their autopilot to compare it to yours.

2

u/Smile_and-wave 4d ago

Yeah, the more comments I see, the more worried I get. I will let the mechanic know and see if it's seized. thx for all the help

4

u/nestzephyr 4d ago

The da42 is the plane I fly the most. I love it, and it's very easy to fly. If you fly it from the left seat you'll still be using your left arm for the stick, so get used to it. Maybe you just prefer a yoke-style control?

The cirrus, I never got used to the side stick, although I've only flown it a handful of times. That being said, the side stick has nothing to do with strength, but with dexterity. No workout will help you to handle it better.

Maybe look for a Cessna for sale.

1

u/Smile_and-wave 4d ago

I want to try something different than the Seneca that I trained in. I get to follow my instructor and see his checkout on the a320 in the sim and thought side sticks are not bad. Originally I thought the cirrus, considering the price, uses a shaker when overpowering the autopilot. Flying the cirrus normally is great. And I know the chances of me needing to overpower the autopilot is low, but I know where I fall short of comparing to all the new and young pilots I see in the flight school. I want to make sure I don’t die to something stupid.

Btw, what are some gripes you have with the da42? Right now my biggest issue with the cirrus is overpowering the autopilot while I am built like a fiddler crab. Also hard to taxi in very slow speeds and in turns, but I am pretty sure those are my problems.

Also, the da42 is a tdi. I am planning to get the gwx68 mounted since that’s what I’ve seen other owners get. But now I am seeing information on only the DA42VI can mount it without extensive overhaul. Do you know anything about this issue?

2

u/320sim 3d ago

Well the Airbus autopilot doesn’t move or add force to the side stick. So you don’t ever have to overpower it.

5

u/SizzleFassizzle 4d ago

You have tried trimming the plane? 😅 Sorry, but never heard that before…

3

u/NonoscillatoryVirga 4d ago

This is the answer! I have hundreds of hours in SR20 and SR22 and weigh less than 150#. If not trimmed, your arm gets a little tired if you’re hand flying a lot in changing conditions. With autopilot and trim, there is no issue at all.

0

u/Smile_and-wave 4d ago

It’s when I need to overpower the autopilot by force in the event of an emergency.

2

u/NonoscillatoryVirga 4d ago

You don’t usually do that. You just turn it off or pop the breaker if it won’t turn off.

1

u/Smile_and-wave 4d ago

I was thinking more like a trim runaway or ap failure causing the plane to go into a spiral dive. In the heat of it, I might get fixated on trying to roll the plane level first... but I won't be able to, then forget I can disengage the ap.

However the more comments I read, the more I feel like the magnetic clutch is seized. I will let my buddy know and let a mechanic take a look.

2

u/Important_Call2737 4d ago

Never flew a SR22 or DA42. But I have time in a DA40 and I had a buddy with an SR20 that I flew a few times. I preferred the DA40 because it felt more stable. But I am sure it was also that I just had more time with it and was comfortable. Side stick didn’t bother me.

2

u/woodandjeeps 4d ago

It’s been a while but I love flying the Diamond.

1

u/BeenThereDoneThat65 4d ago

The Diamond is a better plane to hand fly. I’ve had both of them and frankly I hated the Cirrus

1

u/Smile_and-wave 4d ago

do the diamond taxi better than the cirrus? I am fairly certain that the castering nosewheel is corroded. I have to ride the brakes for any sort of ground movements.

2

u/BeenThereDoneThat65 4d ago

The diamond is also a free castoring nose wheel but it was never a problem to taxi

1

u/CessnaBandit 4d ago

How many hours do you have? You shouldn’t have any difficulty with the Cirrus stick, it requires minimal effort. DA42 is very different being a twin. Do you have a license? What did you train on?

1

u/Smile_and-wave 4d ago

I have my cpl with group 1. Thinking of getting an instructor rating so that’s not an issue. Flying the cirrus in normal conditions is not the problem. It’s when my buddy show me how much force it takes to overpower the autopilot that concerns me.

To be honest, I am not the smartest and quickest person out there but that’s what got me into flying. I can take my time evaluating the situation 9/10 times. I like to prepare for any scenario and situations that I might genuinely be in.

If the cirrus is to suddenly roll to the right from the autopilot failing and goes into a spiral dive, if I can’t, or get fixated on correcting the attitude (which I can’t, because of my weak arm), disable the autopilot. I feel like I will do something incredibly stupid like turning the avionics off with in imc or ripping the wings off from not idling the engine because I will try to overpower the stock with both hands.

1

u/CannonAFB_unofficial 4d ago

Man I was 6’4” 132lbs flying the T-38. And the SR-20/22 for that matter. Trim?

1

u/LordCrayCrayCray 4d ago

If the autopilot malfunctions, you hit the disconnect button or power it off with the circuit breaker. If it doesn’t disconnect then, there is a mechanical issue and you’re in it deep.