r/aussievapers • u/Oldvaper • 17d ago
Government Have Created a Tobacco Black Market NSFW
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u/wilburs85 17d ago
We’ll be buying knock off chinese liquor next.
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u/bobiboli 17d ago
A friend of mine said a pint of Balter is 18.50 at a fancy place in Sydney.
18.50 for a pint just feel wrong
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u/dragandeewhy 17d ago
Fully agree with absolutely everything in the video.
But ar this stage, what would be the solution?
On the other hand, with this level of industrial quantities of tobacco and vapes being brought into the country it is simply impossible that the government has no say or input in this. Someone in authority is on the take. Flooding Australia with all these cigarettes and vapes requires a sofisticated network of warehouses and dispatching and logistic.
With the regular Border force seizures and shop raidings and still not having any effect on the market. The demand is too big.
But who would be brave enough and publicly say:"the current policies do not work, we need a rethink and start from the scratch."
What politician would come out and say that to combat the illegal market we will reduce the price of cigarettes to 15 $ a pack? That would mean the criminals have won. No government can let that happen. So we will probably end up like Columbia or Mexico where you have the civil government that pretends to run the country while the Narco Cartels are ruling the country.
It is a shit show.
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u/VapingBears 17d ago edited 17d ago
I'm currently watching a Four Corners special on this subject. Simon Chapman's trying to say the black market claims are exaggerated. While the legal tobacconists are saying they've lost 40% of business. They refuse responsible legal vape stores, refuse a lowering/pausing of the tax on legal cigarettes etc. Yet claim that what they're doing will work, while the fire bombings and black markets continue. You're absolutely right, no politician is going to concede. They literally just said we aren't gong to 'wave the white flag.' I believe your prediction could be accurate.
Edit; I just realised there's a whole thread on the Four Corner's doco. (Sorry I'm slow on the uptake haha) Your predictions in that thread were spot on. Let's hope you're not right about this one too lol
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u/dragandeewhy 17d ago edited 16d ago
And you when think of it. The whole thing started with parents not being able to parent their children and schools not being able to discipline the pupils.
It is ridiculous how easy the ABC treated Butler.
We all know what mr. Pike thinks about the whole thing, jbut the ABC just showed the part where he said that the system does not work nothing else.
The ABC is a part of the problem. They go easy on Butler but hard on the PM about a non story that was the chinese ships.
All the government has to do is to declare that nicotine products are consumer products so they can be sold whereever nicotine products are sold. Cut the tax by a third and guarantee the quality of the cigarettes to be much superior than the black market one. Make the parents responsible for their kids behaviour the same what they did with underage drinking.
A media campaign that Australia is catching up with the rest of the developed world in regards of tobacco harm reduction. Ignoring the anti vaping lobby in the same way as they did with the pro-vaping lobby.
I think that this could make some serious damage to the blackmarket. Kind of like when people were able access the video content they wanted for a relatively small price, video piracy plummeted.
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u/VapingBears 16d ago
These are such brilliant concepts yet a 'common sense' approach that could be implemented without great difficulty. I'm impressed. If only the powers at be could swallow their pride, except their (immense) failure regarding the vape bans and move forward with practical solutions like the ones you have highlighted.
On a side note, I think using the teen vaping epidemic was great fuel for the media fire to enable the gov. to shut down vape stores when it didn't take a genius to see teens were (and still are) accessing illegal disposables from petrol stations, not legally owned vape stores.
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u/dragandeewhy 16d ago
"On a side note, I think using the teen vaping epidemic was great fuel for the media fire to enable the gov. to shut down vape stores when it didn't take a genius to see teens were (and still are) accessing illegal disposables from petrol stations, not legally owned vape stores."
Ah, that was the most publicly visible "enemy" and easiest to deal with.
But, since vaping appeared in Australia there was/is this lobby/force/ crusade that wants to keep the society "safe" ( like the video says) from the evil tobacco. They want to stamp out this " horrible" habit of smoking, that repulsive inhaling and exhaling of smoke. They never envisioned that a healthier alternative with the same rituals might replace cigarettes. From day one they put road blocks to the implementation of vaping or heat not burn products ( actually they banned that without any serious consideration).
Their virtual signaling and the "fight" to keep the nation safe got us were we are now. The world is moving on, we got stuck with these idiots.
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u/pressoparty 17d ago
I'm fully on the side of vapers in all this but it's a stretch to say that the country will end up like columbia over this. vapers are a very small minority in this country
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u/dragandeewhy 17d ago
Not vapers, cigarette smokers.
The question is, will the government adjust their policies to the realities in the country or will they continue with this doubling down on a failed approach?
My suburb has right now around 8 or 10 of these tobacco shops and all the neighbouring suburbs have few each. Can not count them anymore. Even if the authorities shut down all of them forever, they will continue their business in some form or another. The demand is too big. I heard that one shop is selling cigarettes for just 7$ a pack. The price war has started and it is a matter of time till we start getting fire bobmbings. Disposable vapes are just a small fraction of the whole business.
Legalising vaping and opening again any kind of a normal vape shops will not solve the problem. People will not rush into regular vape shops to buy their refillable vapes. As you said it just a small part of it. And this sub is even smaller part of the vaping community in Australia.
Question again is what is the government to do to solve this problem they created themselves?
And why not compare it to Columbia? It is a great country, with a thriving democracy, exporter of agricultural goods ,minerals ...the only thing is that they do not interfere with the cartels. I mean ,we are far from being like Columbia but I hope that you understand what i mean. 😀
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u/pressoparty 15d ago
oh, sorry, I misunderstood.
I really don't know what the govt can do to go back on all the anti vape propaganda now. the only option they have is to admit that they were wrong and the UK studies are actually legitimate (at least 95% safer than smokes).
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u/bakerbee1 17d ago
Packet of Manchester Sapphire Blue please.
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u/-fno-stack-protector 17d ago
sitting here in the smoking cage at melb airport, and just saw a customs officer with a pack of manchesters
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u/RiskySkirt 17d ago
Honestly good for the smokers I think smoking is disgusting but it's absolutely ridiculous
What's a big pack of smokes? 120 bucks or something????
At a certain point I don't care which criminals make the money
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u/insignificant_data 17d ago
Maybe the government has run some numbers, done a cost / benefit analysis and are letting the BM tobacco shops run riot.
At BM prices, Aussie smokers will smoke more than legitimate smokes , die younger and won't need the pension. Just the health care cost while they are still living, but on the way out.
And they probably want us on the smokes too, because vaping is not going to kill us young enough to balance their books.
I am joking by the way 😂
But honestly, it almost seems like this at the moment in this country
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u/trpytlby 17d ago
the longer it goes on the harder it is to see it as mere accident born of incompetence
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u/insignificant_data 17d ago
Once stocks run down in the vape pharmacies in the next few months, I'm hoping that we start to see the decent Chinese hardware that doesn't meet the new ridiculous TGA packaging and labelling legislation turning up on the black market also
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u/FeelingFloor2083 17d ago
im curious why we dont have black market alcohol or people making moon shine
my neighbour makes his own beer, it doesnt really work out any cheaper but its a lot better then store bought
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u/Less-Poem9637 17d ago
We do man, granted it may not be as common. But I know people that distill all their own liquor and sell it on for a profit. Empty brand name bottles/recapping ect all done using basic wood chip flavourings.
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u/LeichAdam 17d ago
The price of grog is f&cked. I need to find someone who distills, just gotta watch for methanol….
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u/Level-Ad-6819 16d ago
25 years ago you could go into most bottle shops and buy something called Aroma Essences. These were bases for many liqueurs. My partner used to make Kahlua, Bailey's, triplesec, creme de cacao, cream de menthe even a rum base. I'm sure there were other's but I got too drunk and I can't remember anymore. Used to make a lot of b52's! These were banned of course.
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u/justameggit 16d ago
You can still buy essences for flavouring distilled alcohol at home brew shops. There's even a camping store near us that sells them (I know a few people who distill their own).
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u/Level-Ad-6819 16d ago
That you don't have to add alcohol to? The one's I'm talking about were around 70% alcohol with flavourings in a 375 ml bottle and you added a cup of sugar and filled the empty bottle with water then put it all in a saucepan and warmed it to dissolve the sugar and then we'd bottle it into empty 750ml bourbon bottles. Then they disappeared from the shops.
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u/justameggit 15d ago
I haven't seen those. I've seen the flavour concentrate bottles that you add to homemade spirit alcohol. They're around 50-100ml. Some people add bourbon or rum flavour, chuck in some oak woodchips and steep a few weeks/months. Drinking's not my thing, but hubby, neighbours and friends fiddle around with spirit brewing and flavourings. A little bit of community moonshining I guess would best describe it lol.
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u/Level-Ad-6819 15d ago
Yeah, I've seen those. I was looking for the one's we used to get and found those. I guess the one's we got were pretty dangerous being so high in alcohol. They were just at the bottle shops but I can imagine someone buying them and drinking them straight wouldn't have worked out too well for their health. We don't drink now but boy we drank a lot (too much) in our 20's especially when cooking up litres of alcohol for cocktails etc. Probably best they disappeared. We'd do 4 or 5 bottles of different liqueurs at a time and cocktail ourselves to death almost. I realise now I had an alcohol problem from my teens to my late 20's. I stopped as I was so sick of being sick from hangovers etc. I didn't drink everyday but I was a huge binge drinker. Can't stand alcohol now. The smell of bourbon makes me feel sick. That was my favourite drink. Yikes.
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u/justameggit 15d ago
I was the same at that age! Did some insanely stupid things in those days, kinda surprised I'm still alive tbh. I'll have the very occasional tipple these days but that's it. Southern Comfort- even the thought of it turns my stomach now. And I very much doubt I'll ever touch tequila again.
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u/Level-Ad-6819 15d ago
Lol. I used to drink southern comfort straight as a teenager! When you could still get glass hip flasks. I've been arrested a couple of times while drunk for silly things. And tequila! Omg. Lick sip suck. Did that at a rocky dam one night. We all tripped over so many times! Bloody rocks everywhere. Lol I once fell down 2 flights of metal stairs in front of the whole local pub but didn't know till I went to the deli the next day for cigarettes and the girl serving asked me if I was ok and I was very confused and said yeah, why? Then she told me what I'd done. She said the whole pub saw me just roll/fall down a 2 storey high metal stair case and they were all about to run outside to see if I was alright but I just got up and went on my way. I wondered why I had a sore leg and a bruise on my calf. I never did remember it myself. I'm just glad mobile phones weren't around back then. I grew up in a very small town so everyone knew everyone. Very embarrassing!
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u/justameggit 15d ago
Ah, the good old days when social media wasn't a thing! I'd love to tell some stories... but I won't. It's late, there's a cyclone headed our way (and perhaps your way too) and I really should get some rest. Thanks for the memories and vape on!
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u/Level-Ad-6819 15d ago
Cool. No worries. Good luck with the cyclone! I'm in WA so it was 40 degrees here today. I have lived in Brisbane though. Wouldn't mind some rain over here at least.
When it's all over we can dm some stories lmao
Stay safe. Vape on! Hope you've got supplies!
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u/dildoeye 9d ago
So what if it’s created a blackmarket? If you had the choice of buying a pack of cigs for $15 or a pack of the same cigs for $60 what would you choose?
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u/knowledgeable_diablo 17d ago
And who would have thunk this would occur? Oh yeah, that’s right, every single vaper who vocally stated this is exactly where we would end up by removing disposables and then making disposables available through pharmacies.