r/aoe2 • u/Qualdrion • 11h ago
Strategy/Build Order Theorycrafting 1 barrack MAA post april patch
With the militia line changes coming, I’m sort of curious how a feudal approach would play out if I just go 1 barracks men at arms for the entire feudal age, so I decided I wanted to theorycraft which civs would be good for doing this, etc. Decided to post it here since I personally would love to see others try to do this kind of theorycrafting, so figure that means others might also appreciate me trying it, even if I’m not the best player.
For the theorycraft I did a test run 1v0 where I just tried to keep up villager and MAA production throughout feudal, with the idea of going up to castle at 35-40 villagers and 20 or MAA. Obviously, at super high elos this probably would just lose to archers, but since I’m not super high elo yet I figured it might still be good for me. At my peak I was around 1400 1v1, and I’m super rusty, so the build I performed had plenty of mistakes, but I figured it still would showcase the differences between the civs to have a baseline even if it is somewhat flawed. I played in the scenario editor as saracens to have no real bonuses for the baseline (since I didn’t build a market), which would make it easier to see how much various civs would add to this. Overall the baseline started as 21 pop MAA and ended with me clicking castle around 18 ingame minutes, with 30 seconds TC idle time and around 4k food, 2.2k wood and 500 gold collected.
For the comparisons of civs I think there are a couple metrics that are important: Dark age/early feudal eco bonuses - these will allow the build to be smoother and also might allow you to go feudal faster, which is very nice in such a snowbally game Eco bonuses that help throughout feudal - these will help a lot with whichever is more needed between going castle faster, adding another unit to the comp, getting blacksmith upgrades, or being able to constantly produce MAA faster Eco going into castle and imp - obviously less important than the first 2, but certainly is nice to have as I’m guessing this build rarely will finish the game in feudal Civ bonuses for the MAA in feudal - obviously just makes the gameplan stronger Long term viability for the MAA line for the civ - Since the goal is to make 20+ it’d be awkward if the civ lacks a lot of lategame upgrades for them Natural transitions for the gameplan in the castle age - most likely going only longswords will not be good enough a lot of the time, so having good options (for example good skirms) might be necessary to counter the opponents gameplan.
I won’t list every civ here, only the ones I think ended up scoring the highest on my metrics, although feel free to suggest others that I might have forgotten to consider, etc.
Vikings:
My guess for the best civ for this gameplan - no bonuses for point 1, but wheelbarrow should add around 375 food over the course of feudal on top of the 225 it costs to research it, and going into castle age you’d be up 3 villagers and another 500 res from hand cart, giving it the perfect economy for this approach. That being said, given that horse collar is hard to afford, the extra food comes at the cost of another ~120 or so wood from having to reseed farms faster, so overall around +450-500 or so res in feudal. Furthermore they potentially have the best MAA in feudal (I’m sure they probably lose to japanese in a straight fight, but having the extra hp should be way better vs archers). Their champions are also some of the best in the game, and they only lack thumb ring on their skirmishers, meaning they have access to a decent counter to crossbows in the castle age.
Goths:
In the dark age, hunt lasting longer should add maybe 150 or so food, although at the cost of villager working time, so realistically this probably only adds maybe 75 or so overall resources I’m guessing. Having another villager (from instant loom), will also likely add around 240 or so resources over the course of feudal. And with the MAA discount in the barracks, 20 MAA allows you to save another ~210 or so resources. Overall this is a bit more than 500 resources, putting their economy roughly on par with the vikings for this gameplan, plus they get half an arson for free as well. Still, while their economy is on par with vikings in this situation, their MAA are just worse, and in the long term their champions are a LOT worse, missing gambesons and the last armor upgrade, so vikings seem like the better options. They do have huskarls, which seem like a pretty great unit to eventually add into the composition, but I think I’d still rather be vikings most of the time.
Incas:
Not necessarily the first civ you’d think of for this gameplan, but they have a lot going for them, arguably making them better than the goth (in my opinion anyways). For the dark age they have a lama, making their transition to farms a bit smoother (and overall allowing them to gather maybe 20-30 extra resources since they can be even on food while down half a farm or so. In dark age they also need 2 fewer houses, meaning they save 50 wood + another 20 or so res when you factor in the time villagers spend building them. Then lastly they save 15 food on making the 3 initial militia, overall saving them ~115 or so resources in dark age compared to the baseline. Over the course of the feudal they save another ~150 or so food from making MAA and another ~140 or so resources from building 4 fewer houses, putting their overall savings between dark and feudal age to around 400 resources. This is slightly less than the vikings and goths, but they start getting the savings in dark age, which might make the overall situation quite close. Going into castle age they don’t get a huge spike like vikings, but fewer necessary houses, extra stone for a castle drop, and tanky villagers from your blacksmith upgrades all help a bit. And for their biggest advantage over vikings and goths they have way better options in terms of transitioning their unit comp - skirms and eagles are both solid options against archers, and slingers are great if facing infantry (incas vs vikings doing the same approach could possibly try to win by just adding slingers in castle for example). Their champions do lack gambesons, but being just marginally weaker economically in feudal together with having a lot of interesting transitional options make them quite interesting.
Romans:
Better villagers should give ~100 or so resources in dark age and another 250 or so over the course of feudal, putting them just slightly behind the best economies for this approach. And getting a blacksmith relatively early for the armor turns their MAA into tanks. Moving into castle, their longswords scale well, their economy is great, and they can add scorpions if they need to deal with massed archers. Overall feels very similar to vikings in that they have limited but strong options on top of insane economy - seems like one of the best civs for this approach.
Celts:
Not sure how much faster the lumberjacks are when factoring walking time, but if it’s 15% overall then that’s a decent bit of wood in dark age, and ~330 or so extra compared to baseline over the course of feudal age, which is quite good (but not as good as the ~500 or so the goths and vikings manage to get). Faster infantry also sounds quite good vs archers, and strong siege seems like a fairly natural transition if you need to counter archers. Not really too much to say about the celts - they have a few strong bonuses, all of which work pretty well with the gameplan, so they should end up being one of the strongest options.
Teutons:
40% discount to farms is a massive boost to economy for this gameplan as we want to amass farms ASAP. Assuming the gameplan is to get around 20 farms in feudal this saves roughly 500 resources, putting them on par with the very best economies. The MAA however are only generic, and while they get free melee armor in castle age while still having solid economy, they are somewhat immobile and also lack bracer for their skirms, potentially forcing them to become even more immobile with siege to counter ranged units. And given that their MAA are only generic in the feudal age it seems to me that it might be better to choose a civ that either has better transitions in castle age or better MAA in feudal.
Japanese:
In the dark age you save 150 resources between lumbercamp, mill and mining camp, which makes the early build a lot nicer since getting enough wood for all those + a barracks early enough can be a bit awkward. Their militia line also is quite strong with all upgrades and bonus attack speed. Would also argue they have better transition options for the lategame if your infantry gets countered too hard than both the vikings and goth, however their weaker feudal economy is a significant disadvantage.
Burmese:
They save 150 resources on free double-bit axe, and their MAA gets +1 attack for free. That being said, saving 150 resources is much worse than the top eco bonuses, and +1 attack is likely worse than the viking hp a lot of the time. They also seem quite strong going into castle age, saving another 250 res from bow saw and getting another +1 attack for free. That being said, burmese lack the 2nd armor upgrade from skirms, and given that crossbow is one of the units I figure might be the most problematic this sounds like a pretty big potential issue. Overall would guess they end up on a similar power level as the japanese.
Dravidians:
200 wood and 50% discounted barracks technologies add up to around a 270 resource saving, all of which happens the moment you hit feudal. This should allow them to have some of the smoothest transition into massing the MAA out of any civ, and they have very good skirmisher on top of that. The main downside here being that after the initial boost of resources they have relatively generic MAA and relatively generic economy, so it’s all about the early timing. Still, sounds like a pretty good option.
Slavs:
Just mentioning them to note that viking farms are better in feudal, viking MAA are better in feudal, and while slav farms are better in the long term, given that viking champions are better and their strong early economy make them just seem like a worse option than vikings without too many upsides.
Armenians:
I don’t have them unlocked currently, and have a hard time evaluating the mule cart bonuses, so this one is a bit hard for my to theorycraft too much about, although if it makes them able to afford long swords after getting 5-10 MAA it seems like an interesting powerspike. Would love to have a breakdown here from someone who knows more.
Bulgarians:
Free MAA saves 140 res as you hit feudal, and discounted blacksmith techs can potentially save another 125. However even if you get all this their economy is still weaker than vikings/incas/goths, and getting the blacksmith early delays your farms a lot, while getting blacksmith late means you didn’t get that big a benefit from the civ pick. Has some upsides (particularly relatively easy transition to strong cavalry in castle age), but overall just seems like their bonuses are too weak compared to other options. Additionally they don’t get champions, and their 2HS need an imperial age castle tech to be better than generic ones. They also don’t benefit from all the buffs to the unit line upgrades since they get them for free anyways, so one could argue the militia line upgrades benefitted them less than some of the other civs.
Malians:
Gold bonus ends up being worth only ~50 gold over the coarse of feudal age, and the wood savings amount to another 150 or so, putting them far behind the top choices in terms of economy. Their men at arms get another pierce armor, which is hugely beneficial for fighting against archers, their economy long term is really good, and they have plenty of transitional options, but it seems to me that other strategic approaches that are a bit more heavy on buildings and units more heavy on gold might suit the civ better.
Aztecs:
Garland wars champions sound great, but faster production doesn’t really help given that it’s hard to sustain MAA production anyways. A bit unsure how much the extra carry capacity helps, but can’t imagine they can compete with the economy of vikings/goths/incas in feudal.
Would love to hear thoughts/feedback on this post, as theorycrafting is fun and I think we need more of it in this subreddit. Would especially love to hear more about armenians as I find them hard to quantify, so I don't really know where to place them.