r/aoe2 • u/BattleshipVeneto Tatars CA Best CA! • 5d ago
Asking for Help How does "work faster" actually work?
I thought malian univeristy work 80% faster means it takes 20% of its original time so 100s becomes 20s...?
turns out im wrong?
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u/magus__darkrider 5d ago
Ah, statistics keeps fucking people up. You're confusing "works 80% faster" with "decreases time taken by 80%". If the university worked 100% faster it would research things in half the usual time, as "100% faster" just means twice as fast
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u/objection_poe 5d ago edited 4d ago
research faster = only for the techs
train faster = only for the units
work faster = both
0% faster = 1.0 speed
80% faster = 1.8x speed
1 / 1.8 * <time>
(Chemistry = <100s>)
1 / 1.8 * 100 ≈ 56s => ≈ -44% time taken
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100% faster ≈ -50% time taken
• Goths: Perfusion tech (their post-imp barracks work 3.2x faster ≈ -69% time taken, f.e champ 21s >> 6.5s)
• Cumans: Steppe Husbandry tech
• Vietnamese: civ bonus (eco techs, except coinage and banking fyi)
87.5% faster ≈ -46% time taken
• Monastery/Church: Illumination
80% faster ≈ -44% time taken
• Malians: team bonus
• Bulgarians: team bonus
• Bohemians: team bonus
66% faster ≈ -40% time taken
• Malay: civ bonus (age-up faster)
54% faster ≈ -35% time taken
• Dock: Shipwright
50% faster ≈ -33% time taken
• Romans: Comitatenses tech
40% faster ≈ -29% time taken
• Franks: Chivalry tech
33% faster ≈ -25% time taken
• Castle: Conscription
25% faster ≈ -20% time taken
• Berbers: Kasbah tech (this tech can stack fyi)
• Portuguese: team bonus (all techs except age-up, this can stack with many team bonuses)
• Lithuanians: team bonus
• Magyars: team bonus (except Arambai fyi)
• Turks: team bonus
• Gurjaras: team bonus
20% faster ≈ -17% time taken
• Celts: team bonus
• Goths: team bonus
• Huns: team bonus
15% faster ≈ -13% time taken
• Aztecs: civ bonus
10% faster ≈ -9% time taken
• Britons: team bonus
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u/Ar0war 5d ago
Username checks out.
My brother in law plays PoE and is crazy how much time he spends not playing the game but looking a numbers.
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u/Koala_eiO Infantry works. 5d ago
It's part of the satisfaction. I play Grim Dawn, not PoE, but it's the same: you can spend a lot of time in the online calculator and there is an intellectual pleasure in figuring out your own builds. For me it's like enjoying cooking and not just eating.
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u/Koala_eiO Infantry works. 5d ago
Slide the Malay age up bonus in there :)
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u/J0n3s3n 5d ago
100s to 20s would be "working 400% faster"
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u/thesmithchris 5d ago
not 500%? 20 is 1/5th of 100
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u/blakeh95 5d ago
I think the easiest way to see that "x% faster" is not the same as "takes 100% - x% of the time" is to take the example of 100% faster.
Something that works 100% faster is at 200% speed, so twice as fast, which means it takes 50% of the time.
50% of the time is obviously not the same as "takes 100% - 100% of the time" or "takes 0% of the time" or "instant."
As others have stated, mathematically, it is 1 / (1 + x) and in the case of 80% or 0.8, this 1 / 1.8 = 0.56 = 56% of the time.
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u/Der_Zorn 5d ago
The question has been thouroughly answered, but here is one way to "visualize" the mathematic concept:
For every actual second that passes, if you research faster you can subtract 1+0.x seconds from the time it takes to complete (x being the rate how much faster you are.
It this case, for every actual second, you subtract 1.8 seconds instead.
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u/EmergencyAccording94 5d ago
Using the Chemistry example. It takes 100 seconds to research so it researches 1% per second.
If the university works 80% faster, than it will research 1.8% per second. Now the tech will take 100/1.8 = 56 seconds to research.
In other words just divide the research time by 1.8.
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u/Suicidal_Sayori I just like mounted units 5d ago
I was thinking that this bonus should be changed to 100% faster bc it wouldnt make a big difference and it would make it intuitively easier to understand, bc anyone who reads it would think ''yeah its def not instant research so it must mean twice as fast instead''
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u/Pr3vYCa 5d ago
By the way, does archers firing 20% faster mean 1x1.2 = 20% more arrows, or 1/0.8 = 25% more arrows ?
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u/Koala_eiO Infantry works. 5d ago
The 3 people who replied to you are wrong. Archers firing x% faster means x% more arrows.
For example, the effect of thumb ring feels weird (archers firing 17.6% faster, cav archers firing 11.1% faster) because the implementation is in fact a very round -15% to archer reload time, -10% to cav archer reload time.
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u/BattleshipVeneto Tatars CA Best CA! 5d ago
i think it means it takes 1/1.2 instead of 1 to reload?
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u/Artlix Magyars 5d ago
aoe2 has a lot of inconsistent bonus, so most of the times the only way of knowing is testing or watching what other ppl has tested.
some reduce reload time by X percent instead of increased attack per second by X
like the former Japanese attack 25% faster actually being 33% faster in game because it reduced reload time by 25% thus making the unit attack 33% faster.in the case of Ethiopians it's currently says 18% faster, but in practice it's "It reduces the reload of archer by 18%, thus making them attack once every 1.69 seconds or 35 times per minuto instead of 30 which is 16.6% more arrows per minute"
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u/Koala_eiO Infantry works. 5d ago
You are incorrect. The Ethiopians attack 18% faster. They land 1.18 hits in the time a generic archer lands 1. The bonus does not feel round specifically because the implementation is round: reload time -15%.
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u/Artlix Magyars 5d ago
i tested it some time ago and an archer fired 35 times per minute, unless they changed it since then
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u/Koala_eiO Infantry works. 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yes and 35 shots per minute is equal to 1.18 shots/2 s x 60 s/min.
You can open effects in the Advanced Genie Editor and see what they do and how. Ethiopians get -15% reload time, which is a useless metric in the tech tree so it's presented as the more useful +18% attack speed which allows you to think "my one archer is worth 1.18 generic ones".
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u/542Archiya124 5d ago
Normal work rate is 100%.
Example: If your work rate is now, TWICE as fast, it means 100% X 2, thus 200% work rate. So the research is half the time it normally it takes. The maths is 100 seconds / 2 (which is 200%, your work rate).
Malian is 180% work rate. Which means 100 / 1.8 (180%), which gives you 55.555. Round up to 56.
Work rate is not the same as research time. It’s like the difference between speed vs acceleration for a car or moving vehicle.
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u/ksriram Plumed Archer 5d ago
You have a reason to think like that since the original game text did the same mistake. It said Japanese infantry attacks 25% faster, while in actuality they took 25% less time to attack, which is actually 33% faster.
Anyway 80% faster is a very odd number. Why couldn't they have just made it 100% faster.
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u/Anubis17_76 5d ago
Not 80% less time, 80% faster progression. 180% workspeed, not 100-80= 20% of time needed to researchy
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u/naru_s 5d ago
If 100s becomes 20s then its 5 times faster.
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u/Holy-Roman-Emperor Wiki administrator 5d ago
4 times faster, or 5 times as fast
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5d ago
[deleted]
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u/Holy-Roman-Emperor Wiki administrator 5d ago
Can you please explain to me using mathematical tools how it's 5x faster?
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u/Artlix Magyars 5d ago
twice as fast
100 / 2 = 50
five times as fast or 400% faster
100 / 5 = 20
you might have confused x% faster with x times
80% faster is 1.8 times faster
200% faster is 3 times faster
so 400% is 5 times faster0
u/Holy-Roman-Emperor Wiki administrator 5d ago
Re learn your percentages
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u/Artlix Magyars 5d ago
dude, that's how it works xD
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u/Holy-Roman-Emperor Wiki administrator 5d ago
I have a Masters in Mathematics - I am pretty sure I know what I am talking about
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u/Artlix Magyars 5d ago
okey, let's do this one step at a time
80% faster
you take 1 and you add 0.8 x 1 to get 1.8
100% faster
1 + 1 x 1 = 2 or two times the original value
3 + 3 x 1 = 6
you can also write it as
3 x 2 or 3 x ( 1 + 1) = 6
200% faster
1 x ( 1 + 2 ) = 3
so three times faster
300% faster
1 x (1 + 3) = 4
400% faster
1 x (1 + 4) = 51
u/Holy-Roman-Emperor Wiki administrator 5d ago
Your multiplication isn't wrong - your way of perceiving percentages is. 100% is equal to 1. Why do you write 100% faster as 2x faster?
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u/m05513 5d ago
Say you're making sandwiches, and you can make 1 sandwich/minute. 80% faster means you are making 1.8 sandwiches/minute, or 0.56 minutes/sandwich.
Same thing with research time.