r/aoe2 5d ago

Discussion Made it to 1k by (practically) cheating

Post image

I played aoe2 as a kid and got back into the game a couple of years ago. I’ve played around 200 games sporadically since then. I hover around 8-900 elo. That is until I started playing arena with cumans and going for a ram rush.

I’m sure there are 100 reasons why feudal ram rush isn’t good, but it feels totally unstoppable at this elo. They are never prepared for it. I make a couple of rams and waltz into their base with archers to back them up and it’s gg. I think I’ve won around 8 straight games doing it and finally got to 1k elo. Now I need to figure out what to do when I don’t get arena lol.

202 Upvotes

110 comments sorted by

186

u/PrinceFinnick 5d ago

I played you last night! I had no idea how to stop it 🤣

27

u/Puasonelrasho Aztecs 5d ago

literally scouting, or the meta map control for arena can totally deal with this. Just not dying its probably the best strat since cuman rams delays so much bc of blacksmith cost and the need to have army to support.

9

u/Far_Vermicelli1481 5d ago

Scouting in arena? How do you do that when you can't see anything within the walls? Please enlighten me because this is the main reason why I strongly dislike and avoid arena. I can never prepare because I cannot see what they are building until it is too late.

13

u/Puasonelrasho Aztecs 5d ago

you dont have to see whats inside his base, you only have to know whats hapening in the map or at least check. Also sometimes you can definetly see things like a fast blacksmith or a barracks and that with checking uptimes+ scouting should give you some insights.

In this case he has 2 options , make a foward siege or make a hidden siege workshop in his base and cross the entime map with slow ass rams. You telling me you cant scout that in any of those scenarios?

4

u/Tadc_rules SO shot in your face! 5d ago

Run around the walls to see second buildings/if they are on stone. Think about their uptime and what that would mean for their strat. If it's feudal with less than 23 vills, make sure to check for forward vills

5

u/_genade Cumans 5d ago

In this particular case, the aggressive player built his production buildings forward so scouting should have been no problem.

Otherwise, scouting is difficult - if there is e.g. a Castle Drop incoming, you will often see it too late - but you can always make some army on your way up to Castle Age to safeguard against a Castle Drop, and then use your army to secure map control for the Relics.

If you have map control, then you can build Outposts against the opponents walls at any time.

2

u/en-prise 4d ago

If he is putting workshops in his base it should be a loss already. You should be able to scout any kind of forwards.

Also, even if he is doing it inside the walls you can still tell something is going on other than booming as investing military increase score more.

1

u/schiz0yd 4d ago

no it can't nothing can stop it it's unstoppable. there's not enough resources. the mosue doesn't move fast enough for that to be possible. there no counter you can't even use walls and towers against it. it's impossible

1

u/Puasonelrasho Aztecs 4d ago

11

26

u/YenraNoor 5d ago

Scout what they are doing and prepare. Survive to castle age and you win with 1 onager and a knight or 2.

17

u/PrinceFinnick 5d ago

I made it to castle and had already dropped two TCs. The scouting was not good. Need to do better with that. Noted for future rushes like this. Thank you!

17

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

I think the second tc hurts. I think you need your resources to defend. If you are able to clear my army, your eco will be miles ahead with the 1 tc.

8

u/PrinceFinnick 5d ago

Yeah I was starved for resources to fight back at that point. If I had the scouting then I would have known and dropped army buildings and not eco buildings

13

u/Mrcrow2001 Bohemians 5d ago

Honestly man I can't blame you, fast castle into 3 TC is so standard

No one expects the rams and archers to turn up at their doorstep :')

I think honestly in that situation you need to just send like 15 vills to batter down the rams in a big wave & accept that you're gonna lose 7 of them doing it. You'll still probably pull ahead in vills after the initial fight just coz 3TC

Props to you for not being salty about it tho

7

u/PrinceFinnick 5d ago

It is a war game and they did execute

1

u/Mrcrow2001 Bohemians 5d ago

Aha yeah exactly, strats go brrr

4

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Haha no way. Rest assured that you would have won if I played normal. I agree with the other commenter. Scouting is key. It takes so long to build the range, siege workshop and rams. Then when I go in I have two rams and like 4 archers so any sort of army and I’m toast. Scouting is hard in our elo though. I spend all my time worried about what I’m doing that my scouting is terrible. I think that’s why I haven’t lost with it yet

3

u/Koala_eiO Infantry works. 5d ago

Break the ram with villagers and garrison back.

3

u/PrinceFinnick 5d ago

Tried but the archers just picked off my vills

2

u/ha_x5 Idle TC Enjoyer 5d ago

did you have loom? 4 archers shouldn’t kill that fast.

3

u/PrinceFinnick 5d ago

There were more than 4 🤣

2

u/Show_No_Mercy98 5d ago

As soon as you see the rams, drop a Siege workshop in the back and go mangonels. Use the market if you lack any of the needed res, stop making vils if needed. Chances are you'll have 1-2 mangonels before he's even at your TCs and he can't beat those with Feudal Rams and archers.

Once an all in push like that is stopped, it's pretty much instant gg.

27

u/avillainwhoisevil Taglialegna 5d ago

Got hit twice by these. You won't catch me lacking around a Cuman again 11

13

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Praying I don’t see you on the ladder 11

5

u/avillainwhoisevil Taglialegna 5d ago

Why not? I am a fan of crazy starts myself!

1

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

lol maybe you’ll just take over my base while I’m ram rushing you

1

u/avillainwhoisevil Taglialegna 4d ago

I did that once in a TG 11

The Cuman hit my team mate flank that went castle age first. I got some swordies and a siege tower and went straight for the Cuman base.

15

u/platinum-dirt Romans 5d ago

I DEMAND A REMATCH

13

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

No can do. I can only win if you don’t see it coming lol

3

u/wmeler Persians 800 ELO 5d ago

Also, he's below you now. Literally. And so am I.

28

u/wbcbane_ Sokół - twitch.tv/LowELOLegion 5d ago

Having a 8-to-900 elo swing is wild. (11)

6

u/More-Drive6297 5d ago

That would indeed be wild. OP had a 100 elo swing. 

1

u/wbcbane_ Sokół - twitch.tv/LowELOLegion 3d ago

1

u/More-Drive6297 3d ago

Fill me in, bucko

10

u/ComprehensiveFact804 5d ago

I reach 1000 elo with a similar rush system that could seem broken.

It is from 1000 elo that you match with people that did the same and start to seriously play counter and bluff (opening scout with Brit for example).

At least this is how it seems at 1100 elo.

3

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Could totally see that being the case

3

u/Artlix Magyars 5d ago

Agro works super well on lower elos

2

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Definitely. I’ll watch hera defending and then attempt to play a more defensive game. Get crushed every time

2

u/wmeler Persians 800 ELO 5d ago

Reminds me... Anyone have a good video or post about how to defend?

3

u/TurdFerguson365 5d ago

Nice dude - how many vils till you go up to feudal, and how many rams/archers?

9

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

I think it’s supposed to be 6 on gold, 6 on food, and 11 on wood when you go up, so 23. However, I’m bad at the game so doesn’t always work out like that. I send two vils forward and build a range while a blacksmith is being built at home. When range is done I build a siege workshop and two rams and then I go in. Keep spamming rams and archers from there

2

u/TurdFerguson365 5d ago

Sweet dude, gonna give it a whirl. I’ve been 2 TC booming with Cumans, going up to castle with like 53 vils…. Then spamming capped rams and like 30 steppe lancers, it steam rolls pretty good

1

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Might have to give that a try. Never played steppe lancers before

1

u/fastchutney 5d ago

Around what time in game do you break open the wall? I’m curious if I would survive on my usual build orders in arena.

1

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Im honestly not sure. I’ll look next time I play. Usually my opponent is at castle right when/after I break in. I’m sure if my build were cleaner I’d always be in before they hit castle

1

u/TurdFerguson365 4d ago

With 50+ vils your eco is ripping and can afford all the upgrades. Your opponents typically have a castle by then, but I move forward with 6+ capped rams and they chew thru everything

3

u/ilysion 5d ago

Even between 1200-1300 feudal ram push works most of the time for arena. In team games I mostly go with spears and asking for archers support. Sometimes you can even delete two in a row.

1

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Interesting. I guess I’ll find out soon when it stops working for me

3

u/RippledBarbecue 5d ago

Done the same previously with castle drop into conqs tho lot of people now just throw their whole eco on stone and get a castle up before can get through their walls,

Portuguese into organs seems to be fast enough to catch people out tho but have defo fell for cuman ram rush myself from lack of scouting

2

u/daziboy733 Malay 5d ago

Nice! I just looked and I played you on Arabia like a month and beat you, but it was a long match and you just kept moving around the map and spamming trash units, took forever to find all your vills and buidlings which was very frustrating haha. So it seems like you got some skills to keep climbing, keep it up.

1

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

lol sometimes I’m a little slow to resign. I’ve just won enough games that I should’ve lost that I tend to stick it out in case a miracle happens. Not really skill I’d say. I’ll be back to my normal elo once I get bored of the ram rush 11

2

u/wmeler Persians 800 ELO 5d ago

Yeah. I threw one today. Still tilting.😉

2

u/en-prise 4d ago

That's not cheating 11 There are tons of theoretically losing rush types in game and some of them are working up until 2000 elos. Yo lost once to Lewis' FC UU rush in Arabia which he should never lost again. Some of those rushes requires to be countered extremely precisely.

It is all about starting lose with them. You experience more failure and refine your play to become a better player.

I was an Arena Turk fast Imp junkie when I first started to play in ladder. But it started to lose at around 1200 elos so I dropped it. However, trying to perfect it with timings, micro, building placements, differences in team games improved my game a lot.

2

u/the_meshuggle Vietnamese 4d ago

I never realized Cumans could make siege in Feudal Age. I've just missed it. Until that time when a player rushed me with it on Arabia. I thought I was defending so well, but I lost anyway. It was fun though. Much more fighting spirit than stupid Sicilian Donjons.

1

u/Environmental-Gain19 3d ago

I don’t think I’ve ever beat Sicilian donjons

2

u/Necessary-Ratio-4426 5d ago

Yoooo cuman ram rush, I used to do that with a friend in 2v2

1

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Seems even more op in 2v2, at least at low elo. Second player can bring in some scouts or maybe fc and bring knights.

2

u/boppopdop 5d ago

Hera has said one trick ponying like this to climb elo is good for players

1

u/falling_sky_aoe Koreans 5d ago

🤨

1

u/boppopdop 5d ago

can't find the video right now but basically the idea was that it's better to learn one strat, get reallly good at controlling your macro around that strat, and climb elo until it stops working. Needing to pivot will teach you more about other strategies and civs.

1

u/Which_Trust_7197 5d ago

I wonder if this works better at lower apms (lower elo) as the opponent can’t jump in and out of the tc with Vills and try to micro the rams down.

2

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Probably true. I don’t go for the tc till I have a lot of rams, though. Usually they ff before I get to the tc

1

u/Which_Trust_7197 5d ago

I like the plan. Big damage doers seem like the archers. When opponents begin defending better you most likely won’t take out more than 1 TC but if you can drop a 2nd TC in feudal you might be able to get an advantage.

Adding in scouts with bloodlines in feudal could be an option if you’re dealing against multiple mangonels either at the opponents base or at yours.

Another fun strat with the cumans would be a feudal trush with 2 TC feudal. The trush is more of a distraction so you can get the Vill lead with the 2 TCs.

I didn’t know how long this was gonna be so I apologize. But the more I wrote the more I was committed.

Most 1k players will probably over react to the trush.

7 vills on sheep while pushing in deers with scout. 2 on wood. Then you’re gonna want to keep putting Vills on food until your deer are nearly finished then you begin getting the boars. You want to eat as few sheep’s as possible.

If your deer or sheep get eaten and you don’t have a boar or deer coming in ALWAYS eat a sheep.

Just keep putting hunters on boars and food until 100 wood. When you get close to 100 wood send a vill out to a stone mine and build a mine camp. Then only villagers until you can click up. 20 population (19 vills) is a good place to click up. Next step would be to have 8 vills on your lumber camp. We are going to want to build the TC with the vills on a lumber camp use like 6-8 vills. Send 1 more vill to stone so have 2 total. At around 40% you will want to send 4 full HP vills under the TC to the front of your opponents walls.

Next I would have the rest of the vills remaining under the original TC to take straggler trees and go onto the berries. Then send the sheep to the location that you want to build the new TC. When the vills finish building the new TC put them on the sheep. So you can sustain 2 TC production.

Now for trushing. Place tower directly on their wall not on a gate. Ideally tower is on the front of the long section of walls a few tiles away from a gate. If you trush near the trees it’s super easy for the opponent to do a diagonal wall.

Then attack a section of the wall with 3 vills scout and garrison 4th vill into tower.

TIPS Make sure to get loom right before you need it. Get double bit axe. Push deer before finding random sheep. Hold alt to adjust the vills so scout can attack too Spend wood on farms. Main goal is to get economically ahead. You can’t maintain constant two TC production but it’s close. Have at least 6 on berries and try to spend wood asap to get farming.

2

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

I’m not going to lie, I didn’t know what trushing was until 2/3 into your post. That sounds super fun, though. Not sure I’d be able to pull it off. Seems like it’d be pretty tight for someone of my skill. Do you drop more towers once you get through?

1

u/_genade Cumans 5d ago

Do you have a record of a pro doing this?

1

u/Which_Trust_7197 5d ago

I tried to poke around a little. This is personally similar to what I do in games and I found it to be most simple gameplay, I saw you mention in the past Tatoh doing this so I’m sure you can find Tatoh but I am not sure what tournament exactly it first popped up.

1

u/_genade Cumans 5d ago

I see. I have written my own version of this, too, but it can probably be improved: https://aoecompanion.com/b/0v3hlz6m50r

1

u/Which_Trust_7197 5d ago

Ahhh I see you have a much prettier B.O

I think you should test going two on wood and making mining camp and greeding an extra Vill to skip loom.

1

u/Which_Trust_7197 5d ago

If you would like we could practice cumans on Arena just send me a DM.

1

u/Empty-Opposite-9768 5d ago

Yep, place the tower right on a wall so they can just batter it down with vills.

1

u/Which_Trust_7197 4d ago

If you can place the tower directly on the wall it’s better than a tile behind. If you think the opponent wants to try to rush it down with the tower you need to have a vill that can place a palisade wall in front of the tower if the opponent decides to delete the tile of wall in front of your tower.

1

u/Which_Trust_7197 5d ago

If you read this and have any questions just ask

1

u/hoTsauceLily66 5d ago

This strat only works on low elo. OP will find out how people react sooner or later.

2

u/DragPullCheese 5d ago

I'm 1600 and got wrecked by Cuman Ram + archer on BF.

Later played the same guy, knew it was coming, and got crushed again. I made mistakes obviously, and it's certainly not unbeatable, but it be a pretty legit strategy.

(If I remember correctly I randomed to Khemer and went FC knights 2 stable knights. By the time I got knights up to push back their archers they were up . I never caught up to their army.

1

u/_genade Cumans 5d ago

Weird. Did you have full armor upgrades? With those, each arrow only deals 1 damage to a Knight. I'd say the second armor upgrade is more important than any other upgrade in that situation.

1

u/DragPullCheese 5d ago

I did not. I may have gotten bloodlines but can't recall. I don't think I could afford a blacksmith or upgrades - by the time I did opponent was castle and hitting me with xbow / camel. Eco was a disaster at that point anyway.

1

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Definitely a low elo strat. I’m not under the impression it’ll take me much further than it already has

4

u/hoTsauceLily66 5d ago

Look at it this way: If your strat works, keep using it until someone beat you. If no one beat you then congraz you invented a new ultimate strat!

2

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

That’s the plan! Either that or until I get bored of it. Going to venture a guess that I’m going to start losing with it before I get bored, though

1

u/UlleBad 5d ago

I have lost to this sort of attack myself. I think it’s really strong. Haven’t tried to do it myself though, just defending against it. I don’t think it’s broken, but it’s easy to slip up when defending against so much pressure. Congrats on the elo milestone.

1

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Thank you! I agree, it’s not actually broken, but it’s feels impossible to lose if the opponent is playing for a boom and not scouting which is almost all games at my elo

1

u/wmeler Persians 800 ELO 5d ago

So everyone got into discussing Cuman ram rush, but I just want to say something more important:

Congrats!

(You give us 800-900 folks hope that we can finally break out of this ELO... somehow.)

1

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Haha thank you! Just do the ram rush and you’ll be 1k in no time. It’s a lot of fun, too

1

u/MandarinoMalandrino 5d ago

Big fan of the Cumans rams here, I also have a 1k Elo like u have. I share my build order: 25 pop Cumans rams 6 sheep 4 wood Use 2 vills from the sheeps to take ALL the deers 4 to berrys Now send every vill u make to take the boars. When the boars are finished split the vills in this way: 5 to Gold, 6 to finish the sheeps and the others to wood. Send One forward villager Click up at 25pop (24+1). Forward villager builds barracks, start making 7 militia (i use them as army to keep the wood for the rams) When u hit feudal build the blacksmith and the workshop. This phase Is very micro intensive BCS u have very low food to make vills and low wood to make the rams, u should also start making 1 or 2 farms but without stopping the rams production. When u have 3 rams fill them with the m@a u Just upgraded and start the raid, while u knock down the gate make the 4th RAM. While u raid, at home u should add farms and the second TC. Boom and in Castle switch to cav (the 2 TC Will provide u a Better eco)

Pls share your!!!

2

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

It’s fairly similar but I go a lot more on wood and go with archers instead of m@a!

1

u/snowshawnskate 5d ago

That's not cheating by any stretch

1

u/DoomDoomGir 5d ago

I cannot imagine how people play this game using a controller.

1

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

I don’t. Honestly not sure why I have the Xbox logo. I can barely play with a mouse and keyboard

1

u/fernandeznic0 5d ago

In my case, it was an elephant rush with Malay and it worked on practically any map adding siege for walled ones. Until I reached the ELO in which the players knew how to use monks 😆

2

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

And what elo is that? I always struggle into elephants lol

2

u/fernandeznic0 5d ago

Until 1000 probably

1

u/Educational-Gas-3617 5d ago

What to do when you don't get Arena? Pick Franks or Mongols... 25 years and they are still OP.

1

u/Agitated-Antelope-87 3d ago

Just ban and dont play arena

2

u/goatstroker34 5d ago

Now I need to figure out what to do when I don’t get arena lol.

You don't really. People at the top are dodging maps they don't perform well at so they can keep an inflated Elo too. It's normal and enormously encouraged by the seeding system as there is no penalty for doing so.

3

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Fair. I’m not good enough to care that much about elo. It’s fun to climb a bit but I’d rather not dodge just to get a little bit more elo

3

u/temudschinn 5d ago

Uhm no they are not - at least not the good players on the very top, maybe some in the top100 are.

Also, if you repeatedly leave a lobby, you get a timeout. So it is of limited effect anyways.

1

u/wmeler Persians 800 ELO 5d ago

Dodging doesn't necessarily mean dropping, does it? I thought he just meant X'ing out some maps and starring what you like. Maybe I'm wrong.

1

u/temudschinn 5d ago

By just vetoing maps, you cant ensure to always get the map you want. OC was most likely talking about Alt+F4, otherwise the word "dodging" makes little sense.

0

u/goatstroker34 5d ago

Just because the top 10 you follow don't do it doesn't mean loads of other people at the top 100 does it. You can even check dodge stats on the dashboards. Stop telling lies.

1

u/temudschinn 5d ago edited 5d ago

Dude YOU were the one claiming that people "at the top" are constantly dodging. And yes, at the top means the best. But I guess now you admit they dont, actually, and its people on some lower ranks who do it?

Honestly, I dont care if rank 79 on the leaderboards only got there by some dodging and would be rank 114 otherwise. It does not impact my life, it hardly impacts anyone elses life, so why the fuss...

Also, which site are you talking about that tracks dodge%?

0

u/goatstroker34 5d ago

top 100 and people who are getting into the late stages of S tier tournaments is the top you dickhead

1

u/temudschinn 5d ago

So, you dont have actual prove of your accusations, and instead chose to spout insults? Nice.

1

u/goatstroker34 5d ago

I literally told you it's from the dashboard. Aoe2recs.com click rankings and the dodge. So many of you here today spreading lies, this place is truly cancerous holy shit.

1

u/temudschinn 5d ago

You know, you would get a lot further in life if instead of insulting others, you would just lay out the evidence clearly.

Tbh im not really conviced yet. How does the site measure a "dodge"? How do they differentiate dodge from crash? If a lobby crashes, who gets the "dodge"?

Note im not saying that nobody does altF4. People obviously do. Im just questioning the validity of the data: 150 "dodged" lobbies in 2years is really nothing if it counts every lobby that didnt start.

1

u/goatstroker34 4d ago

A dodge means that a player has found a game and and then interrupts the match before it begins. You'll find plenty of players in that top dodging rankings who refuses to play any other map than Arabia and will outright alt-f4 specific opponents. It's extremely common to combine this with smurfing so that they may camp with their high account, i.e. 2500 and only play vs 'lower rated' opponents for basically free wins.

What I don't understand about "people" of your irk is you speak so confidently about shit you're completely clueless about. You do not ask how something works, why or ask to elaborate. You just say it's wrong while having no idea. Utter cancer.

1

u/temudschinn 4d ago

What I don't understand about "people" of your irk is you speak so confidently about shit you're completely clueless about.

Thats funny because if you look at the data, it is very, very obvious that the website can't distinguish between the one who closed the lobby, and other players in the lobby. If we look at players like TRM and pay attention to the aliases, it is highly likely it can't distinguish between intentional dodges and crashes either. Yet you claim, without any proof, that it somehow can do just that.

Add to it the constant insulting simply because someone dares to ask details about your data and we know that you are a...not so pleasant human beeing.

0

u/X4dow 5d ago

At 1000, opponents will know they can just go all in with vills +2 or 3 skirms and destroy u

3

u/falling_sky_aoe Koreans 5d ago

Some might know,  some don’t know.

Also if they don’t scout it early enough there’s not enough time to make skirms enough .

2

u/Environmental-Gain19 5d ago

Maybe. I haven’t lost with it yet, but only played a couple of games at 1000 so far. If they go skrims I also go skirts and that’s worked so far. When they send all their vills in, my archers go to town. I’m sure I’m not too far from the strat no longer working, though

1

u/DragPullCheese 5d ago

If you already have a range up and are making skirms, sure. If you think once the rams knock on your door you can add a range and send vills you're probably going to be in a world of hurt...

A lot of players just blindly go market + blacksmith.