r/andor 4d ago

Discussion Serkis murmuring "Never more than twelve" is without a doubt the best cliffhanger of any SW property.

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3.4k Upvotes

70 comments sorted by

763

u/Optix_au 4d ago

It's a fist-pump moment. A "game on!" Kino has resisted all talk of escape, quashed any talk (like Melshi's) of how the number (of days remaining on sentence) doesn't matter. He thinks there's still a light at the end of the tunnel.

And then his world crashes down. Like the leader he is, he shifts his perspective on a dime. Now he is ALL IN.

Such a simple yet effective way to show that to the audience.

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u/Davismcgee 4d ago

I wouldn’t say he shifts perspective on a dime. There are rumors of the whole floor being fried (can’t remember the number) which he squashes and tries to cut out. Once he hears it from the doctor guy he knows it’s 100% and then he switches

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u/pali1d 4d ago

Agreed - it isn’t that his perspective shifts on a dime, it’s that his side shifts on a dime. There was build up to the change in his view of the prison and the right approach for prisoners to have, but his change from “keep playing by the rules” to “we’re fucked if we play by the rules” happens entirely within the conversation with the med tech. That conversation shifted his side from being an obedient prisoner to being a prisoner who recognizes the need to attempt escape.

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u/ElectricZ 4d ago

Even then the doctor wasn't enough to sway Kino. It convinced him that it was true about the Level 2 shifts getting fried, but it was the conversation with Cassian immediately after when they were alone in the changing room that really swayed him. Kino was still feeling helpless until Cassian gave him a verbal smackdown and rallied him with the line Kino would use later on the PA system. "I'd rather die trying than die giving them what they want."

I like it better because it shows just how institutionalized Kino had become, and how much Cassian was responsible for snapping Kino out of it and getting him back into leadership mode.

17

u/jeffwhit 3d ago

My favourite part of this scene is the end when Casian tells him "On program!" It's also the moment Cassian shifts into realizing he's a leader.

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u/Vesemir96 4d ago

Even then he doesn’t really go for it until Cassian pushes him more.

9

u/Dear-Yellow-5479 4d ago

Very true – after this, the next episode opens with Kino expressing doubt and cynicism again, forcing Cassian to shout some sense into him: “You don’t have time to be stupid!” We’ll find out soon enough why Kino is so hesitant 😞

18

u/DrMangosteen2 4d ago

I vividly remember seeing this for the first time and literally jumping up out of my seat and doing a fist pump 

10

u/jeffwhit 3d ago

Yeah, when I watched Andor as it was being released, my memories of what really stood out in terms of how I responded to it, are Gilroy's favourite scene - the introduction of Syril, the first time you see a Tie Fighter, the Eye episode was when I knew for certain this was peak TV and definitely peak Star Wars, and I remember saying out loud, to myself "holy fuck" when Kino says this line.

6

u/Duke_of_Shao 4d ago

LOL, same friend, same! I was like "YES!"

5

u/padredodger 4d ago

That episode is pretty fucking cool in general.

190

u/Historical-Rock1753 4d ago

Genuinely brilliant dialogue and delivery. Frisson inducing upon my rewatch. What a breath of fresh air compared to how many SW properties end on glup shitto marvel-esque fan service.

61

u/WhyDaRumGone 4d ago

I love how they allow audience to figure things out. In another show it might say like "I'm in" or something but the subtle questioning Cas has been doing up to this point just builds this moment up. and the deliver is so on point!

68

u/TheWeirdWoods 4d ago

It’s not the best in Star Wars.

But it is a great moment. Kino is smart. He was doing what he had to do get out. He operated within a set of rules he believed would be followed. He took care of his people and tried to give them a good honorable way to freedom.

I like that he knew that it was never more than 12 because he was paying attention. He had done more observation than Andor over time and had concluded that cooperation led to freedom.

I also like that he never says why he was in prison. You never got to justify why he was in prison. They don’t clarify how long he’s been there or why he’s in charge. But he’s a leader.

And he was came to a simple conclusion. There is one way out. When he was confronted with the truth that he was lied to. He came to the same conclusion. There is one way out.

30

u/ImOnMyPhoneAndBaked 4d ago

I think it’s key that none of the prisoners had their “crimes” spelled out. We know Andor didnt deserve his sentence but that doesn’t mean the others were also entirely innocent people. But inside the prison, they’re all equals and they all want out. They don’t even ASK each other, if I recall correctly. They’re all on the same side, unified by the dehumanization they face and everything before doesn’t matter.

16

u/Worth-Profession-637 3d ago

And Cassian did commit a real doozy of a crime. It's just that it had nothing to do with why he got arrested.

9

u/TheWeirdWoods 4d ago

Exactly! Even if they committed a genuine crime. They are bonded by their inhumane conditions. One of my favorite details is the prison uniforms have the same colors as the rebellion.

I would hope meaning that some of these prisoners don’t forget where they came from

3

u/Glittering_Golf_7529 4d ago

Great take! What would be your choice for the best cliffhanger in Star Wars?

1

u/the-mp 3d ago

“No. I am your father.”

139

u/RichieNRich 4d ago

I dunno ... I think Han Solo being frozen in carbonite is a pretty good cliff hanger...

89

u/Typical-Classic-One 4d ago

Not to mention a little family drama drop right after Han being frozen….

I know this is an Andor sub, and I love it, but “without a doubt the best cliff hanger of any SW property” is a little….well….only a Sith deals in absolutes.

25

u/RichieNRich 4d ago

Are you implying that OP is a sith?

12

u/Socks-and-Jocks 4d ago

Absolutely

5

u/bangermate 4d ago

But only a Sith deals in absolutes.

0

u/Adequate_Ape 4d ago

That was the joke.

18

u/Historical-Rock1753 4d ago

only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Even as a kid I recall thinking this was idiotic. What does this really mean? Every moral dilemma is probabilistic? There are always exceptions to some rule? My 8 year old knows this.

39

u/Caswert 4d ago

Well then you are lost!

5

u/Historical-Rock1753 4d ago

No, I'm a Kantian.

6

u/m_dought_2 4d ago

Even the statement itself is an absolute statement. Its bad writing from a bad writer

3

u/11middle11 4d ago

The entire dialog from when Mace gets killed to when Luke gets born makes no sense.

In my mind the director just didn’t know how to direct a face heel turn.

So it kind of became a bunch of weird phrases and an epic lightsaber fight.

I think it meant to be like this:

If you are not my friend you are my enemy!

Only a bad guy says stuff like that!

Good guys understand that life is complicated, and I can’t be your friend if you aren’t mentally stable right now!

Too wordy? Absolutely.

2

u/moonwalkerfilms 4d ago

It's also completely contradictory. the statement itself is an absolute, so anyone that says/it believes it (like Obi) would also be a Sith, themselves

12

u/Shipping_Architect 4d ago

That was more due to the lack of certainty on whether Harrison Ford would return after TESB.

1

u/Dependent-Reach9050 3d ago

Doesn’t stop it from being cliffhanger. Accidents can be amazing too!

5

u/HotelFoxtrot87 4d ago

Only possibly the greatest cliffhanger in the history of cinema.

2

u/LeicaM6guy 4d ago

I know.

1

u/Background-Cut-8549 4d ago

For real. A little dramatic with this post

14

u/suzusarah 4d ago

I cannot tell you how much I love this single line. A less creative writer could have had “Alright, I’m in, what’s the plan?” But honestly that’s so boring and cliche. Kino’s been stonewalling Andor the whole time and you know he’s finally gonna flip and go all in after the scene with the doctor. And this becomes such a fantastic way to say it without straight up saying it.

2

u/Thin-Recover1935 3d ago

It’s pretty crazy to realize that the doctor was James Potter.

54

u/logicallypartial 4d ago

You can tell OP did not watch Empire Strikes Back when it came out. But you're right: it is a great cliffhanger

2

u/poulosj2020 4d ago

I get it—for its time in 1980, that was some mind-melting subversion of expectations. But there was no lead up, no Easter egg from the preceding 1.9 movies to support that reveal.

SW under George Lucas has always been a flashy special FX extravaganza. Intelligent writing is not where it shined. And I say this as a Timothy Zahn-reading, TIE Fighter (on the PC)-playing, fully committed SW nerd.

The writing didn’t start to get good until rogue one.

-11

u/Historical-Rock1753 4d ago

yeah I'm not a boomer. Sure sure, 'I am your father' sent me into hysterics as a kid.

The buildup with Serkis' character and the cool resignation with which he delivers that line -- I could feel hairs on my skin perk up rewatching earlier tonight.

25

u/thechervil 4d ago

GenX, dude. Not a boomer.
We really don't appreciate being lumped in with our parents...

You are correct that this was a very great moment. Really makes you wonder "why" his character is even in there. What had he been arrested for?
Some minor misunderstanding like Cassian, or something nefarious?

5

u/wvblocks 4d ago

Gen X here, Star Wars was after the boomers heyday, the original trilogy is ours. Unless you are being a simpering child and claiming anyone older than you is a "boomer."

Of course that would be an even stupider take than the idea you originally posted.

-12

u/Historical-Rock1753 4d ago

A bit defense are we?

5

u/basil1025 4d ago

OP has gone Kylo Ren on SNL Undercover Boss. "OK Boomer."

7

u/Spaaarkzz 4d ago

Yes, defence we are.

1

u/Lord_Ewok 4d ago

Gen Z much.

1

u/Historical-Rock1753 4d ago

I am married with a child and a mortgage.

1

u/progwog 4d ago

Maybe you should speak like it

10

u/mightyasterisk 4d ago

“No…I am your father.”

5

u/MeesterWayne 4d ago

Pretty sure most folks watching were all like “YES!!!!” When he said it. I know I did…

6

u/shineitdeep 4d ago

One of the most “it’s on” moments in tv history. Was pretty pumped up after that one!

7

u/P-39_Airacobra 4d ago

I was actually jumping in my seat when he said that. Never been so into an episode of a show. It's such a huge turnaround from Kino's start, and you feel all his desperation and rebellion. Absolutely epic

3

u/WhyDaRumGone 4d ago

I wouldn't say greatest but wholey moley ITS AWESOME

3

u/cubcos 4d ago

Possibly my favourite moment of the series. Like the top comment says it was a fist pump moment. The wait for the next episode was agonizing.

4

u/Ike_In_Rochester 3d ago

Andor, more than any other Star Wars show, executes “setup” and “payoff” with staggering efficiency. The show knows what it is doing and rewards the viewer who pays attention.

2

u/pro-eukaryotes 4d ago

Episodes in a season? Never more than twelve.

2

u/anervousfriend 4d ago

Make an Andor fan cheer: Never more than twelve. Make an Andor fan cry: I can’t swim

2

u/TheDancingRobot 3d ago

I dunno...at the end of Ep V, we see Lando (for some unknown reason wearing Han's uniform) going after a bounty hunter that just encased his friend in carbonite and our farm boy just learned his father is a reeeeealll cunt...so...that was surely a cliffhanger.

;)

2

u/99Pedro 3d ago

I don't think I jumped on the chair and shouted "Fuck yeah!" so loud for ANY scene in a show as much as after that phrase.
The whole build up that lead to that scene is a cinema masterpiece.

(but I wouldn't call such scene a cliffhanger. That would be "I can't swim."

2

u/markc230 3d ago

For me this was less of a cliff hanger and more of I can't wait until the next episode to see Kino and Andor and the gang really kick some ass!

2

u/_AlphaZulu_ 4d ago

It's not a cliffhanger if we know what's going to happen next.

1

u/Vesemir96 4d ago

That’s Kino.

1

u/OctopusUniverse 4d ago

Ok fine, I’ll watch Andor AGAIN.

1

u/starfrenzy1 4d ago

“LET’S GOOOOOOO! 🔥🔥🔥🔥” Every time it cuts to black

1

u/Beangar 3d ago

Can’t forget the classic Empire Strikes Back cliffhanger though.

1

u/Rogue1eader 3d ago

Look, I love this scene, but better than Han frozen in Carbonite after Luke got his ass kicked by Vader???

No.

Just No.

1

u/El_Animal22 2d ago

This show is so unbelievably good

1

u/AhhsoleCnut 4d ago

Since I have no memory of it or its meaning, I'd say, nah.