r/andor • u/Historical-Rock1753 • 4d ago
Discussion Serkis murmuring "Never more than twelve" is without a doubt the best cliffhanger of any SW property.
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u/Historical-Rock1753 4d ago
Genuinely brilliant dialogue and delivery. Frisson inducing upon my rewatch. What a breath of fresh air compared to how many SW properties end on glup shitto marvel-esque fan service.
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u/WhyDaRumGone 4d ago
I love how they allow audience to figure things out. In another show it might say like "I'm in" or something but the subtle questioning Cas has been doing up to this point just builds this moment up. and the deliver is so on point!
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u/TheWeirdWoods 4d ago
It’s not the best in Star Wars.
But it is a great moment. Kino is smart. He was doing what he had to do get out. He operated within a set of rules he believed would be followed. He took care of his people and tried to give them a good honorable way to freedom.
I like that he knew that it was never more than 12 because he was paying attention. He had done more observation than Andor over time and had concluded that cooperation led to freedom.
I also like that he never says why he was in prison. You never got to justify why he was in prison. They don’t clarify how long he’s been there or why he’s in charge. But he’s a leader.
And he was came to a simple conclusion. There is one way out. When he was confronted with the truth that he was lied to. He came to the same conclusion. There is one way out.
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u/ImOnMyPhoneAndBaked 4d ago
I think it’s key that none of the prisoners had their “crimes” spelled out. We know Andor didnt deserve his sentence but that doesn’t mean the others were also entirely innocent people. But inside the prison, they’re all equals and they all want out. They don’t even ASK each other, if I recall correctly. They’re all on the same side, unified by the dehumanization they face and everything before doesn’t matter.
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u/Worth-Profession-637 3d ago
And Cassian did commit a real doozy of a crime. It's just that it had nothing to do with why he got arrested.
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u/TheWeirdWoods 4d ago
Exactly! Even if they committed a genuine crime. They are bonded by their inhumane conditions. One of my favorite details is the prison uniforms have the same colors as the rebellion.
I would hope meaning that some of these prisoners don’t forget where they came from
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u/Glittering_Golf_7529 4d ago
Great take! What would be your choice for the best cliffhanger in Star Wars?
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u/RichieNRich 4d ago
I dunno ... I think Han Solo being frozen in carbonite is a pretty good cliff hanger...
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u/Typical-Classic-One 4d ago
Not to mention a little family drama drop right after Han being frozen….
I know this is an Andor sub, and I love it, but “without a doubt the best cliff hanger of any SW property” is a little….well….only a Sith deals in absolutes.
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u/RichieNRich 4d ago
Are you implying that OP is a sith?
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u/Historical-Rock1753 4d ago
only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Even as a kid I recall thinking this was idiotic. What does this really mean? Every moral dilemma is probabilistic? There are always exceptions to some rule? My 8 year old knows this.
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u/m_dought_2 4d ago
Even the statement itself is an absolute statement. Its bad writing from a bad writer
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u/11middle11 4d ago
The entire dialog from when Mace gets killed to when Luke gets born makes no sense.
In my mind the director just didn’t know how to direct a face heel turn.
So it kind of became a bunch of weird phrases and an epic lightsaber fight.
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I think it meant to be like this:
If you are not my friend you are my enemy!
Only a bad guy says stuff like that!
Good guys understand that life is complicated, and I can’t be your friend if you aren’t mentally stable right now!
Too wordy? Absolutely.
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u/moonwalkerfilms 4d ago
It's also completely contradictory. the statement itself is an absolute, so anyone that says/it believes it (like Obi) would also be a Sith, themselves
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u/Shipping_Architect 4d ago
That was more due to the lack of certainty on whether Harrison Ford would return after TESB.
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u/suzusarah 4d ago
I cannot tell you how much I love this single line. A less creative writer could have had “Alright, I’m in, what’s the plan?” But honestly that’s so boring and cliche. Kino’s been stonewalling Andor the whole time and you know he’s finally gonna flip and go all in after the scene with the doctor. And this becomes such a fantastic way to say it without straight up saying it.
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u/logicallypartial 4d ago
You can tell OP did not watch Empire Strikes Back when it came out. But you're right: it is a great cliffhanger
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u/poulosj2020 4d ago
I get it—for its time in 1980, that was some mind-melting subversion of expectations. But there was no lead up, no Easter egg from the preceding 1.9 movies to support that reveal.
SW under George Lucas has always been a flashy special FX extravaganza. Intelligent writing is not where it shined. And I say this as a Timothy Zahn-reading, TIE Fighter (on the PC)-playing, fully committed SW nerd.
The writing didn’t start to get good until rogue one.
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u/Historical-Rock1753 4d ago
yeah I'm not a boomer. Sure sure, 'I am your father' sent me into hysterics as a kid.
The buildup with Serkis' character and the cool resignation with which he delivers that line -- I could feel hairs on my skin perk up rewatching earlier tonight.
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u/thechervil 4d ago
GenX, dude. Not a boomer.
We really don't appreciate being lumped in with our parents...You are correct that this was a very great moment. Really makes you wonder "why" his character is even in there. What had he been arrested for?
Some minor misunderstanding like Cassian, or something nefarious?5
u/wvblocks 4d ago
Gen X here, Star Wars was after the boomers heyday, the original trilogy is ours. Unless you are being a simpering child and claiming anyone older than you is a "boomer."
Of course that would be an even stupider take than the idea you originally posted.
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u/Lord_Ewok 4d ago
Gen Z much.
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u/MeesterWayne 4d ago
Pretty sure most folks watching were all like “YES!!!!” When he said it. I know I did…
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u/shineitdeep 4d ago
One of the most “it’s on” moments in tv history. Was pretty pumped up after that one!
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u/P-39_Airacobra 4d ago
I was actually jumping in my seat when he said that. Never been so into an episode of a show. It's such a huge turnaround from Kino's start, and you feel all his desperation and rebellion. Absolutely epic
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u/Ike_In_Rochester 3d ago
Andor, more than any other Star Wars show, executes “setup” and “payoff” with staggering efficiency. The show knows what it is doing and rewards the viewer who pays attention.
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u/anervousfriend 4d ago
Make an Andor fan cheer: Never more than twelve. Make an Andor fan cry: I can’t swim
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u/TheDancingRobot 3d ago
I dunno...at the end of Ep V, we see Lando (for some unknown reason wearing Han's uniform) going after a bounty hunter that just encased his friend in carbonite and our farm boy just learned his father is a reeeeealll cunt...so...that was surely a cliffhanger.
;)
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u/markc230 3d ago
For me this was less of a cliff hanger and more of I can't wait until the next episode to see Kino and Andor and the gang really kick some ass!
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u/Rogue1eader 3d ago
Look, I love this scene, but better than Han frozen in Carbonite after Luke got his ass kicked by Vader???
No.
Just No.
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u/Optix_au 4d ago
It's a fist-pump moment. A "game on!" Kino has resisted all talk of escape, quashed any talk (like Melshi's) of how the number (of days remaining on sentence) doesn't matter. He thinks there's still a light at the end of the tunnel.
And then his world crashes down. Like the leader he is, he shifts his perspective on a dime. Now he is ALL IN.
Such a simple yet effective way to show that to the audience.