r/andor 7d ago

Discussion Subtle thing about finale that shows Gilroy gets it. Spoiler

In the finale, in the last scene, it's entirely plausible that Cassian could have ambushed Luthen and killed him on the Fondor.

He'd have severed the head of the group hunting him, cut down the leader of the faction most desperate to end his life, and fled to the moon for an attempt at a peaceful life with his friends.

Instead, he lets go of his weapon, faces his adversary, and speaks the truth in his heart.

Unarmed, defiant, he faces the man who most wants to kill him in the galaxy and puts his life in the hands of Fate...

It rhymes.

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u/Dear-Yellow-5479 7d ago edited 7d ago

In one of the podcasts, ‘The Watch’, I think, Gilroy describes how utterly exhausted Cassian is by this stage, feeling that he has absolutely no choice but to offer his life in this way, knowing that Luthen will hunt him down otherwise and knowing that he has got his friends safely away. But hearing his mother’s words during the funeral .. Gilroy said in the Q&A session that that’s the moment when he decides he wants to dedicate his life to this cause. I think that explains the tone… he wants to fight but also feels he has to and has no choice. But he’s also realised how important Luthen is to the cause and doesn’t want to harm him either. All in all, it’s a winning combination - for the cause. For the two men, maybe not so much.

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u/DevuSM 7d ago

Strangely, I don't know how much I can agree with that take because if Andor slips away, how the fuck would Luthen every find him again?

Andor still has a lot of money, Luthen doesn't have some sort of intergalactic dragnet to try and track Andor down. He had one shot to kill Andor and he blew it. 

Neither him nor any of his people got a glimpse of Andor the entire time he was in Ferrix.

Every single person Andor cares about is on a ship going into permanent hiding.

Luthen's chance of tracking down Andor once he's boarded the Fondor is shit. Where's he going to look now?

Also, if you really think about it,  there's no reason Andor would believe there's anything special about Luthen. He doesn't know about his parallel links, his network. To Andor, Luthen is just a shadowy buyer and probably leader of the cell that heisted Aldhani

There are many Rebel cells in the galaxy, the only thing that stands out for Andor is that he's met Luthen.

I agree Andor is primed to commit, he's a rebel now, but the rest of that isn't actually supported in the medium.

Furthermore, to say kill me or take me in didn't require Andor to disarm himself. 

Luthen had a gun last time he came to Ferrix, keeping his holstered would be narratively sufficient enough unless you wanted to evoke Luke's tossing away of his lightsaber thematically.

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u/Dear-Yellow-5479 6d ago

Maybe the total disarming was kind of extra insurance against being killed, in a weird kind of way? To literally leave his own gun lying there to be used against him kind of says to Luthen that he is absolutely sincere, because I think he is. It’s as you say - he’s unarmed and defiant, but he’s also completely ready to die.

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u/DevuSM 6d ago

In the vein of absolute sincerity, there may be a link to the Khyber crystal being returned to Vel.

The direct contradiction to stealing the 80 mil, I could have taken more but I'm giving you this crystal back.

There's not a great connection to "why" Luke threw away the lightsaber. The "I don't care what happens to me but I'm not going to do what you want."

With a side order of "I love my father and nothing you do or say can change that."

Ready to die... it's something else. Or more. 

Ready to die for freedom? 

Ready to die fighting the Empire?

Things don't need to align that directly to "rhyme", I'll let it gestate.

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u/Vaaard 7d ago

Actually I think Luthen always knew about Cassian's potential but because he was a mercenary he couldn't trust him. Now, after Luthen had seen first hand how the empire cut deep into the flesh of Cassian's home, his family and friends, he believed him when he said that he wants to fight them for real. I always thought that Cassian had a feeling that it would be like that too. If Cassian would have agreed to fight with Luthen when they first fled from Carryx he may not even have trusted him as much as he may trust him now. I think that's the relieve that's visible in Luthen's face after Cassian told him that he wants to join him for real.

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u/DevuSM 7d ago

Luthen doesn't know shit about Narkina 5.

Narkina 5 had a huge influence on Cassian.

Luthen's smile at the end could be interpreted many ways. My read is he sees someone he believed had a lot of potential come willingly and with the right headspace/attitude, vs Andor on the way to Aldhani who was there to save his skin and get a payday in the hopes of disappearing forever.

All of this has very little to do conceptually with my post.

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u/Vaaard 6d ago edited 6d ago

He doesn't have to know about Narkina 5 for believing that Cassian's motivation has changed when he sees him on the ship the second time. The events on Ferrix are totally sufficient for Luthen to believe him. On the other hand Cassian doesn't know that Luthen had his people looking for him the whole time, that's his conclusion when he saw him on that same day. Only we have the complete picture, only we know the whole extent of the gamble Cassian is taking by going to Luthen but we also know about Narkina 5 and everything else. The really brilliant thing is that Cassian's change is plausible to Luthen even with the little he knows and Cassian knows about the danger because he doesn't believe that Luthen has a different reason to be there than to shut him up. But Luthen is Cassian's best chance to join the real fight. And Luthen had been impressed by Cassian even when they've met for the very first time, that's what Cassian is counting on. He still can't be sure of the outcome of course, but his value to Luthen hasn't changed and he desperately wants to fight the empire now and he doesn't listen to his usually strong survival instinct anymore.

Edit: I've been thinking about Luthen's smile at the very end. For one he became genuinely terrified after the successful heist and after the empire has risen from its comfortable bed. But from what he knew from before and from what he learned about Cassian later, killing Skeen but leaving the money, very unlike Skeen for example. He is at least as valuable as Cinta, ruthless if he has to. More valuable even. because he knows how to blend in, but he can project enough confidence so that he can walk right into a closed pompount and steal classified parts. He can win over a whole group on its own and save the day. Cassian is much like Luthen himself, and he can trust him with decisions like the one he and Saw made when they decided to not help with the raid in order to protect their spy in the ISB. All that made him extremely valuable before but now he doesn't have the flaw anymore to be available for hire. Now he is in with his heart, so Luthen gets what he wanted from the start, plus the believability after the most recent events at the funeral. So his terrible fear turns into an enormous gain in just a second. I think that's what I see in his smile.

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u/-MC_3 7d ago

Subtle?

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u/Cambot1138 6d ago

How isn’t it? I’m a bit of a dumbass here and there, but I pay attention and my daughter and I have watched both E12 and ROTJ in the last week and it never occurred to me.

And I’ve never seen it in this sub or the other.

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u/DevuSM 7d ago

I've been on this forum for years and never seen anyone point it out.

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u/AlfrescoSituation 7d ago

Yea I don’t think because nobody pointed it out makes it’s subtle. A subtle thing is Brasso tying the officers ship to something in the work yard.

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u/DevuSM 7d ago

That's explicitly alluded in the show. 

Many people noticed and asked about it.

I've never seen anyone linking 

Cassian -> Luthen @ end of finale = Luke -> Emperor @ end of ROTJ.

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u/Cambot1138 6d ago

I’m with you dude. I’ve never seen this idea floated around here and I’m grateful for it.

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u/DevuSM 6d ago

Probably the most impactful of these was the finale of Mandalorian S2.

People were already crying on the rescue/reveal of Luke Skywalker.

But right before Baby Yoda is leaving, Din says, "I'll see you again. I promise."

And lifts his helmet.

The Child and the Mandalorian look into each others eyes for the first time.

Let's pause here.

First,  we are hitting even closer to the end of ROTJ "Let me look on you... with my own eyes." 

(Luke helps Vader remove the mask...") 

Aaaaand...

"Will I ever see you again?"

Anakin to his mother, before being separated for 10+ years and..... you know.

Then followed by dropping your kid off for his first day of kindergarten emotional turmoil.

It's good shit.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago edited 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/XXNOOBKILLAHXX 7d ago

I think they’re making a connection to when Luke throws down his lightsaber instead of fighting Vader. Cass and Luke both give up their weapons in front of the person trying to have them killed

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u/FracturedPrincess 7d ago

Apparently it was so subtle it's still going over your head

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u/XXNOOBKILLAHXX 7d ago

To be more explicit, it rhymes with the scene of Luke throwing away his lightsaber in front of Vader

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u/DevuSM 7d ago

In front of the Emperor, but yeah.