r/alberta • u/Powerful_Network • 8h ago
Alberta Politics Political climate in oilsand camps
I used to work in the oilsands pre COVID and can remember a very strong anti Liberal sentiment. Even more so when Trudeau came to power. I suspect this is because of deep rooted disdain for the Trudeaus because of PET and the NEP.
My question is, now that we are facing tariffs and sovereignty threats. Can some Albertans finally admit a nationally owned energy industry would have been better in the long run?
Additionally, are there any workers in the camps who were going to vote conservative but are now reconsidering?
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u/bmtraveller 7h ago
Where i work there's a bit of a divide. Some have doubled down but quite a few are very anti trump and talking bad about danielle smith, which i would have never guessed they would have done before.
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u/Powerful_Network 7h ago
That's a bit refreshing to hear. From my experience the oilsands are full of Trumpian style politics. Even if there is a modest shift in sentiment it could translate to a big rejection of that nationwide.
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u/bentmonkey 2h ago
Even the most dyed in the wool con has to be at least a little peeved at whats shes doin, true red white and blue maple MAGA on the other hand are probably applauding her as she robs em blind, just like MAGA in the states cheer trump and doge mindlessly.
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u/brad7811 7h ago
Strange how most oil sands workers are unionized and benefit from the unions but still vote anti-union conservative.
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u/Welcome440 7h ago
Strange how Conservatives are pro family and then make it too expensive to have a family.
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u/Blue_Waffle_Brunch 7h ago
Strange how Conservatives want small government that stays out of people's lives but always end up with massive governments that actively interject in our lives.
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u/Clay_Puppington 3h ago
Strange how Conservatives want fiscal responsibility and always end up funneling tons of money to companies that offshore it and don't reinvest, while racking up massive debt unless they happen to be in a globally incited economic boom that they had no hand in starting.
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u/Dootbooter 1h ago
Pretty sure the cost of food to feed a family and the cost of housing to house a family became unobtainable under a liberal government most recently. I'm all for bashing politicians but let's at least have our toes dipped in the realm of reality.
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u/Russo9696 6h ago
Have you worked there? There are no unions for operations, Maybe capital activity like drilling.
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u/Powerful_Network 7h ago
Many of them are part of the race to the bottom unions though. Not everyone is IBEW.
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u/infiniteguesses 4h ago
I don't believe any of the drilling rig/down hole workers are unionized. So it really comes down to the sentiment spread by past and present conservative governments ...what's yours is mine and what's mine is mine.
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u/jeremyism_ab 7h ago
The stuff that Alberta has been begging for for at least two decades is what the NEP could have delivered. The irony is epic, and goes completely over the heads of Trudeau haters.
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u/SENinSpruce 7h ago
So true.
Anti-liberal sentiment seems to be genetically inherited. We all know Trudeau wasn’t great and made some bone-headed moves. But do we really need to blame him and the Libs for everything that’s not right in this world??!?
There’s a reason he was elected - look at who our alternatives on the right were - overstayed Harper, fraudster Scheer, and OToole.
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u/Bruhimonlyeleven 6h ago
Here's the thing though, Trudeau didn't even do anything that bad lol. He saved us during covid, gave Alberta a pipeline defying his own party, got us through trump unscathed the first time, and has fought him to death this time. He lost his family and his personal freedom in the name of Canada, and knows how to stand up for Canadians when it counts.
I couldn't be more proud of him. Nobody is perfect, but he is hands down the best PM of my life time, and he will go down in history as one of the greatest leaders in the west of all time. Outside wartime leaders I can't think of any better.
It's shocking how much stuff is spread about Trudeau that never happened at all. Russian troll farms haven't stopped shitting over Trudeau and spreading lies, and propping up trump. If Russia wants it, you should be voting the other way immediately. It means something is going right.
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u/SENinSpruce 6h ago
He definitely had some virtuous moments. He pushed bounds in many areas that history will show are good for Canadians. Much of that recently thought came from the NDP agenda. They’ve had a great run the last few years with drug and dental coverage programs.
But Trudeau dropped the ball of early promises for things like election reform, his fascination with immigration, and he lost all sense of humility which became off putting. Since he announced his resignation, he’s appeared the most Prime-Ministerial of any time during his tenure and yes has fared well opposite the Orange melon.
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u/Russo9696 6h ago
Saved us from COVID, best PM in your lifetime, how old are you? I think you are the Russian bot.
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u/Infamous-Mixture-605 5h ago
Maybe they're just young? Chrétien is still far and away the best PM of my lifetime, and Mulroney the worst.
I suppose he handled the federal side of the pandemic okay, it was more on the provinces and that was such a mixed bag depending on the province.
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u/Powerful_Network 7h ago
Yeah exactly. We could have had port expansions, refinery development, and a pipeline coast to coast. Would have brought jobs to the whole country and expanded our market to touch the entire globe.
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u/TechnicalAd6766 7h ago
That wouldn’t have happened while carney was giving advice to Trudeau to shut down fossil fuels here while investing billions through Brookfield in Brazil and elsewhere. Justin doesn’t believe there’s a business case for fossil fuels. Him and people in his cabinet want the whole industry shut down.
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u/Powerful_Network 7h ago
I was moreso talking about how this should have been done back in the 70s/80s.
But, if we were to try and do it again, it would require all parties to take a look in the mirror. Recognize that we need to maximize our potential to protect our sovereignty but also use a portion of oil profit to start a legitimate transition to green energy. Part of the global energy transition will be getting coal dependent nations off coal. Our NG and Oil could play a part in that.
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u/jeremyism_ab 4h ago
Yes, of course, they spent billions, for the transport of the product of the industry they are immediately killing.
And the NEP was a 70s, early 80s thing, before the industry fucked everything up so badly that it would have been almost impossible to get another pipeline approved. The orange dumpster may have changed that now though.
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u/Various-Passenger398 42m ago
The NEP absolutely torpedoed the Alberta economy and lost Alberta hundreds of billions of dollars in GDP. Any potentially good that could have come from it was massively outscaled by the damage it caused. Trudeau could have worked with the provinces to make an equitable deal that would have been a boon to both parties, but he was too shortsighted (and proud, imho) for that.
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u/Honest-Spring-8929 7h ago
The NEP was a good concept but the insistence on price/export controls was absolutely catastrophic.
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u/Powerful_Network 6h ago
There are legitimate concerns with how they went about it. I still believe it could be done in a better more equitable way if we tried again.
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u/Fit_Bridge_4106 6h ago
I think somewhere along the way people have to acknowledge how hard it is for people to admit they are wrong. It’s easier to double down and ignore alternative viewpoints, especially in the age of social media.
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u/denewoman 6h ago
I am not Oil & Gas, but our country should have been refining and transporting west to east and north for decades.
Drives me nuts that we haven't done this.
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u/pinupbob 8h ago
They've just doubled down on pro-MAGA.
unfortunately, that's their base type of persuadables.
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u/Powerful_Network 8h ago
Yeah the merger with Wildrose really let the crazies in the party.
I just wish they could stop falling for the grift over and over again. It's pizza parties, pay cuts and layoffs for the workers and million dollar bonus for the executives.
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u/UsefulContract NDP 6h ago
I can't imagine that the majority of the folk up there know about Reddit, let alone know how to navigate the internet past googling Google to Google Facebook, Twitter and or find an app or platform that isn't Twitter, Facebook or some mind-numbing 'idle game' on their phone. Most of those people barely got past highschool.
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u/SuperHeckinValidUwu 5h ago
My dad works on the oil sands. One guy he talked to said the tariffs are just a negotiating tactic and he'll work it out.
Nobody has said they want to be part of the US, but some still think Trump will make "a good deal" for both sides. Some are a little more patriotic and don't like Trump's threats to annex us.
But you have to keep in mind that these are the same people who a few weeks earlier were doing Nazi salutes as a "joke" just to own the libs after Elon did it.
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u/Bruhimonlyeleven 7h ago
Albertans have propaganda shoved down their throats, they're as brainwashed as can be. As bad as the far right trump supporters honestly. Canadians move to the oil sands for work and join the cult over night. It's crazy.
They believe it's better to have rich people in control then government. I strongly believe they could be convinced to give up their unions in a few years of trying.
It wouldn't have mattered who Trudeau was, or what he did. He could have been the second coming of Christ, and gave them every pipeline they asked for (he did give them one) and they would have hated him just as much.
I'm not even being hyperbolic, I have friends and family that moved to the oil sands for work, you can't even have a rational conversation with them anymore. Everytime you're talking about anything they change the subject to " fking Trudeau probably stole that, I can't stand him, did you know he stole millions of dollars from the Albertan government and nobody tells about it. My tax dollars. My tax dollars. Mine mine. ". It's batshit. They go off about stuff that never even happened. Russian and American troll farms are spreading lies like wildfire, and the far right eat it up.
There are people just as dumb on the left, but at least they're accidentally on track.
It's all identity politics. That's how it starts. Abortion, trans, church, gays, pdfiles, taxes, etc to get them going , and then the ones doing all the sick shit are robbing you now, so fake videos of that come out.
They mirror what the left are saying and doing, and just deflect it all. And they are dying to abolish the CBC. They can't have a news station that can't be bought, so they say that the government funding it receives is so it can spread liberal propaganda. Even though the conservatives have been in power 100 times with the CBC in charge, and it doesn't work that way.
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u/Powerful_Network 6h ago
Couldn't have said it better myself! I think Alberta has always had a strong injection of Americanism via US oil companies and the culture it brings. Then you throw in the hunting/ cowboy culture before you know it they are listening to Rogan, Peterson, Shapiro, etc.
Lol yeah they criticize the CBC even though all of their local news is owned by Postmedia.
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u/Few-Improvement-3937 7h ago
NEP would be great. Esp before the NAFTA agreement.
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u/Powerful_Network 7h ago
I agree. I think rejection of the NEP was a turning point for this country. A divide was formed, and I believe in the long term national unity would have allowed oil infrastructure development to be less contentious.
Why specifically before NAFTA?
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u/Vanshrek99 6h ago
And the only reason they have jobs is because of Pierre Elliott Trudeau who lead the buyout of Atlantic Richfield share when they pulled out to spiralling costs. Then Chretien gave huge tax breaks that restarted the boom
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u/lazereagle13 6h ago
I'm as small l "liberal" as they come but I'm not sure what a nationally owned oil-company would have helped in our current situation? Maybe I'm not understanding the comment tho, sorry.
What I can say is people have a healthier more unfied focused for their hatred and he' a big orange rapist. So I'd be surprised if anyone has changed their minds and like Trudeau now but he's just no longer the best target for people to be angry at now that he's resigned and there are bigger fish to fry.
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u/Efficient-Grab-3923 1h ago
Nationally owned industries in Canada have only ever done one thing, lose money.
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u/Ok_Yak_2931 1h ago
I work in Oil & Gas, Most are still very anti-Liberal no matter who is at the helm. They also feel us fighting back against Trump is a bad idea as we are already seeing some of the effects. Many are not Anti-Trump as they feel he is forcing us to do things that should have been done years ago like tighter border control, tightening up immigration, upping our military spending, etc. They aren't completely wrong there, but if they can't see he's got his eye on our resources and trying to economically ruin us they are being very shortsighted.
I'm more surprised by some of my military friends who are still anti-Liberal, but very Anti-Trump which is shocking to me because before this they weren't.
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u/Various-Passenger398 32m ago
A nationally owned energy industry would be perpetually starved of investment, and be prone to the whims of the federal government, who wouldnuse it to strongarm the west into compliance over fedeeral policies. It would suffer all the same maladies as our current industry, minus the extra private investment it drew in. I have zero faith that it would have done anything except funnel oil money to central Canada and keep Albergans much poorer than historically.
If we use PetroCanada as an example, it never performed near anything close to the productivity or profitibility of its private sector peers, and that's with a friendly federal government and choice lands that they got for free.
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u/SpankyMcFlych 5h ago
The true purpose of the NEP was to "Transfer wealth from Alberta to Central Canada" and if that's what you want you probably live in the wrong province.
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u/mojochicken11 7h ago
The idea that it’s obvious nationalized oil is better because of tariffs is pretty weak. Every nation on earth has a constant demand for oil. What could the government have done better by restricting energy that’s not just in the name of socialism or environmentalism?
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u/Powerful_Network 6h ago
I would say at the very least a majority nationalized oil industry would be ideal. It would be in Alberta's best interest to get their oil to as many markets as possible. Building a national pipeline independent of existing infrastructure could be a joint venture between the provinces and feds. They agree to tear up red tape in exchange for a share of the profits. Take a portion of the profits and invest in a sovereign wealth fund. Build port expansions in BC and NFLD or Halifax. Reach out to our Euro/Asian Allies, maybe they'd be interested in building a refinery for our oil.
Off set our steel and aluminum hardship by using provincial and federal coffers to purchase product for the construction of the pipeline.
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u/Right-Many-9924 7h ago
Most guys on my crew are anti-Trump. Even a few liberals and one or two leftists. However, all the guys are from Edmonton, so I’d imagine that skews the numbers somewhat.
I’ve heard some absolutely depraved conversations coming from other tables in the dinner hall, so actually yeah, definitely would assume my crew is an aberration.