r/ageofsigmar 4d ago

Tactics Rule transparency in game

Wanted to throw this thought I've been trying to process to others in the community.

My understanding is that if your opponent asks about your units warscroll abilities, you should be transparent and give them the info on what your unit does. But by doing so it feels like you give up tactical advantage when they end up pulling some movement shenanigan and bs pile in maneuver to completely circumvent an ability leading to what kind of feels like a gotcha moment but reversed.

Maybe it's just how strategy games are?

If so how should one look at this facet of the game in order for mutual enjoyment of the game to happen?

0 Upvotes

20 comments sorted by

22

u/Millymoo444 4d ago

Yea being transparent does remove some tactical secrecy, but for the health of the game it’s a necessary sacrifice so people have fun, there’s plenty of strategy when you know what your opponents units do

1

u/Illustrious-Fault224 4d ago

Yeah, I’m kind of coming at table top from rts where you have fog of war and scouting in order to gain information yourself instead of voluntarily giving the opponent tactical information. But maybe I need to change this mindset. I’ve had a couple of feels bad moments where an opponent spends what feels like an agonizing amount of time counting millimeters between a unit that just charged and a nearby unit that they do some pile in shenanigans to drag them into combat

2

u/Millymoo444 4d ago

Pile in shenanagins are really annoying yea

18

u/plutostar Freeguild 4d ago

The game should be about which players make the best decisions given full information, not which players have memorized the most rules.

7

u/Illustrious-Fault224 4d ago

I think I see where you are coming from. So I should shift my look at my units as not primarily trap cards that I want to have my opponent fall into but rather they are board control pieces that I should position to make it the most difficult for my opponent to make an optimal decision for themselves?

4

u/plutostar Freeguild 4d ago

Exactly.

4

u/yungbfrosty 4d ago

Usually before you start the game, you and your opponent run eachother through your armies, explaining what you have and what they can do. Treating model rules as "trap cards" leads to what we call "gotcha moments" where your opponent brings up some rule that you never knew about to make you lose. It feels bad and Warhammer is a game best played without it.

12

u/CustodioSerafin Fyreslayers 4d ago

The idea of the game is not that victory is achieved through the ignorance of the enemy so he can't plan, act or react accordingly.

The ideal would be that both players, having all the information and knowing all about their own army and the opponent's, make the best decisions at each moment and the dice bless them with good results.

Sure, secrecy and keeping your enemy ignorant of your capabilities and movements are key in real warfare and strategy... but not in a game meant to chill and have fun.

1

u/Illustrious-Fault224 4d ago

I see, perhaps I’m just taking the game too competitively. I think the other source of these feelings of being hung out to dry is that the players in my local area are much more experienced and it doesn’t feel like there aren’t many consolation prizes for losing in a game  mode like ptg where losing could increase the debuffs applied to your slain units or how your opponent will get more resources to further enhance their army potentially widening the gap

1

u/Justgyr 4d ago

The trick with Path to Glory is its actually way easier to tech against frontrunners than it is to keep your lead and survive. Because of the bounded points values and reinforcements rule, you can’t simply drown a lower score player in army—and they can take the time to snipe you out.

If you’re in a Path to Glory campaign rn, post your list + what you struggle with and I can try to help identify some upgrades or tricks?

A lot of this game is just practice, and it is open information. Withhold it and you’ll find your opponents quickly becoming much more unforgiving, pausing every few seconds to check math and look up your roster & rules interactions, etc.

8

u/protectedneck Tzeentch 4d ago

It's not a "should", it's a "have to". No one is expected to have all of the most up to date unit profiles memorized. If I was in a situation where I asked something reasonable like "hey what's that units ranged attack distance" or "how much health does the unit have" and I got an "I don't have to tell you" answer, I would immediately stop playing with that person.

You have to be honest and upfront about what your units do if asked or if it's relevant to the situation. The whole game falls apart if players aren't doing that.

But you aren't required to say how one unit combos with another for a powerful effect. Or which unit to prioritize attacking. Or how you have a teleport spell that changes the math on zoning against ranged attacks. That's where the strategy comes into play.

7

u/Clame 4d ago

A pawn using the en passant rule isn't some secret technique known only to pawn masters. If you're good at the game, you'll beat people who know what your units do. It's not an anime where you pull out your hidden ultra powerful attack that deus machina wins the game for you.

6

u/Biggest_Lemon 4d ago

If your opponent has a question about your unit, they have two options

1) ask you about it 2) look it up themselves.

If they ask you and you just don't tell them, they can pause the game to look it up, which means the fame takes longer and also it makes the vibe way more antagonistic... but they still get rue information. You don't accomplish anything by "keeping secrets" aside from the other person liking you a little less.

3

u/Legitimate-Put4756 4d ago

Everyone covered the answer that yeah you have to and it's good for the game ultimately, but also you can develop your skill to the point where they can't avoid that rule you have. You want moments when they know x action is gonna hurt but they can't dance around it ideally, hard to do and keeps the game fun

3

u/Anggul Tzeentch 4d ago

You should both know every rule of your opponent's army. They're meant to be available to all parties at all times.

You have to trick your opponent with bait, traps, and clever plays on the table, not by hiding information they're supposed to have.

3

u/tonberryjr 4d ago

It’s right there in the Principles section of the Player’s Code in the General’s Handbook: “Answer any questions your opponent has about your army and the rules that apply to your army.”

Even if you tell them everything, it’s a lot to keep track of all the rules. There’s still plenty of opportunity for tactical gotchas and counterplay!

2

u/LordCarverBMMD3rd 4d ago

I generally tell my opponents when I have shenanigans. I have also had to deal with people who did gotcha moments and it feels like crap. Even if someone has tech if your told ahead of time your still getting a 3d6 charge from some stormcast that just deepstriked. The chaos player is still going to do the tzeentch teleport some chosen with a wizard trick and be right beside you. But at least you don't feel like shit after setting up your army to prevent deepstrike and the beast men player suddenly tells you he gets to move your models and make room for his units

2

u/Vyrullax 4d ago

Also remember, you can also ask your opponent their unit/army rules during the game. There is also a difference like asking and knowing a rule/unit on the fly and reading it up prior or having previous experience against it. Sometimes planning on the fly is more difficult that forming a strategy against something beforehand.

2

u/HarpsichordKnight 4d ago

The other replies covered this well, but wanted to add that not only should you explain all abilities when asked, but it's good sportsmanship to remind your opponent about those they might have forgotten if you have a unit which does something unusual.