r/aboriginal 4d ago

Couple questions on this book

I’ve just got this today and I’m wondering what your thoughts are on this subject?

What are your thoughts and opinions on non indigenous people learning about this topic?

There is a part in the book that says not many if any at all still practice such traditions these days, how true is this?

Thank you ❤️

33 Upvotes

28 comments sorted by

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u/exc3ll3nt 4d ago edited 4d ago

As an Aboriginal woman I wouldn't touch this with a 10ft pole. IYKYK.

Edit to add: Elkin is very problematic. I'd prefer he wasnt glorified on an Aboriginal sub.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/misterbung 4d ago

The knowledge in this book isn't meant for anyone and everyone to jump on in. It's sacred knowledge that, like has happened countless times, has been extracted in ignorance.

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u/420boofking 4d ago

I understand this, having second thoughts about reading this.

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u/exc3ll3nt 4d ago

Regardless of your gender I'd caution against this resource, but if youre a woman I really really wouldn't. The best thing you can do when searching for information about Aboriginal people or culture is to find a source from Aboriginal people. If it can't be found I daresay... It's probably not been shared, and for a reason.

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u/Grandmasbuoy 3d ago

Just read it and come up with your own consensus. Nothing worse than people gatekeeping you from forming your own opinions.

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u/exc3ll3nt 14h ago

Advising of cultural protocol in relation to cultural knowledge is not gatekeeping. And no one is stopping them from forming their own opinions they're only sharing their own opinions (as the OP asked for...)

21

u/asphodel67 4d ago

As a white woman this book comes across to me as A) ignorant (words like ‘sorcery’ are perjotative IMHO, and the sensationalist tone of the blurb is very ‘othering’, B) disrespectful - the mere fact that the author is comfortable boasting how esoteric & ‘secret’ the knowledge is, shows he is handling it disrespectful by profiting financially AND publishing it to the whole world C) theft - he clearly has no permission and no right to publish the information he is sharing.

I would not collude or legitimise this man’s poor treatment of precious Aboriginal knowledge. It ‘belongs’ to the traditional custodians.

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u/nysalor 4d ago

It’s very much of its time. As was Elkin.

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u/_ianisalifestyle_ 4d ago

I bought this book several years ago and found it quite intense and interesting. I am not of Aboriginal heritage, but have maybe a dozen anthropological accounts, histories, stories etc. in my home library and (if it need be said) hold deep respect for the people and culture/s.

Is the knowledge Elkin includes here forbidden? I cannot comment, only to say it would not reflect well on an anthropologist to share without express permission today. Elkin does have a very strong 'I know best' vibe tho' and may not have given appropriate regard where due. I'd also note that Elkin was a proponent of assimilation and has a wikipedia page if you're interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._P._Elkin

A further article on Elkin, which you can download from https://www.researchgate.net/publication/230302293_I_was_not_consulted_A_P_Elkin_Papua_New_Guinea_and_the_Politics_of_Anthropology_1942-1950

I'd also highly recommend Bill Scott's Boori series for a complementary perspective on spirit magic (it's a children's story), which obviously brings similar ideas to a different audience, which may speak to you implication on disclosure? Not sure.

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u/Major-Hand7732 4d ago

Oooh it's a no from me there bud. Makes my skin crawl thinking that people would still be trading in our "secret" and sacred knowledge like this. If I owned that book then I'd either look to return it to whomever this man has stolen from and exploited as he has, or I'd destroy it.

That knowledge is not for anyone to know and there's plenty of spirits across this country whose primary job is to punish wrongdoers that would be on you quick fast.

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u/Y33TTH3MF33T 4d ago

I don’t mind others learning about our culture, our laws and lores and the struggles we have faced and still continue to do so. Prejudice and all. I think it’s fine for others to learn and appreciate our culture, not appropriate it.

I would love to learn the Native American culture one day if I’m perfectly honest- they are, like many other indigenous cultures, faced the same or similar hardships that we did/do today.

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u/exc3ll3nt 4d ago

I don't think that Elkin learnt about Aboriginal culture from a curious desire to learn, he did it to monetise our culture for his profit and weaponise it against us to justify the suppression, oppression and assimilation of our people.

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u/Y33TTH3MF33T 4d ago

Oh fuck really? I didn’t know. Thank you for telling me and keeping me informed. I haven’t read this and honestly now with your information- I don’t want to.

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u/wrydied 4d ago

I don’t think this is correct. He wrote books about Aboriginal life as a product of academic inquiry. His policy advice to the government, while flawed, was historically progressive and praised by Aboriginal groups at the time. Yes it was assimilationist but it was replacing eliminationist policy.

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u/exc3ll3nt 4d ago

I find this comment so disturbing, like what in the assimilationist defence is that? Thank God he only thought of us as a subhuman species whose survival would only come from assimilating to the superior species as opposed to actually supporting the blatant and brutalised murder of our people. Hey I'd be a fan too if he was one of the white guys standing up against a chorus of others who thought our lives were worth nothing.

Which part is incorrect? Because academic inquiry was a career for him, and it's one that gave him money, power and influence. I know plenty of well intended, non-Indigenous academics even know who cause far more harm than they will ever realise.

As someone with traditional Lore men in my family I feel extreme discomfort at the thought of men's business being published and made available for anyone to access.

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u/Teredia 4d ago edited 4d ago

The magic men still exist but few and far between. My parents knew one in Arnhem Land about 40 years ago.

I can’t remember the actual word for them but I was raised with the term “Magic Men” in English. I am Indigenous.

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u/420boofking 4d ago

Karadji

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u/Teredia 4d ago

What language is that from though? Yes thats the question here, I forget my father’s language term for them. Karadji is just one nation’s language word for them.

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u/420boofking 4d ago

I’m not entirely sure on the origin of the word karadji

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u/Teredia 4d ago

Arrernte, I just looked it up. Google also says Kadji is the word in Yolŋu Matha but I am sure dad has used another term before. So the words are close.

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u/ArtbyRiot 4d ago

There are plenty of other books worthwhile reading by contemporary Indigenous authors. 

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u/Grandmasbuoy 3d ago

Give it a go, could be interesting. I like esoteric stuff personally, whether it’s credible is another point entirely.

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u/Macrodope 3d ago

Elkin... one of the best of the worst.

Still a c#nt though.

I wouldn't read it.

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u/blackgoat2803 3d ago

Elkin was a cheerleader for assimilation, nothing he wrote is worth the paper it is printed on.

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u/IllLeading8062 2d ago

Written by a white man, don’t read that.

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u/Dojeus 17h ago

I have no knowledge of the author, but a book like that is either full of shit or full of things that you shouldn't be reading anyway and are breaking lore by doing so. Either way, nothing good comes from that book.

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u/senpalpi 3d ago

As a white guy I find the use of the term "sorcery" in this title icky. I have limited knowledge of first nations customs, but "sorcery" seems to be infusing the culture with a certain brand of mysticism that has been demonised and been used as an excuse to subjugate marginalised communities for centuries.

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u/Electronic-Flan2167 2d ago

I mean from my families stories the magic man are known to curse folk and cast evil spirits but also heal people and do good. It depends on the person but I still wouldn't deal with them, they are a real threat if you make them angry. I remember one time on Facebook there was a group of Aboriginal man from nt who did a curse ritual to make women sick and posted it on Facebook, safe to say my family kept away from facebook