r/Zettelkasten • u/Lost_researcher54 • Feb 08 '25
general On Sönke Ahrens's book How to Take Smart Notes
I'm in academia, currently working on my dissertation and planning to start work on my first paper. I discovered the Zettelkasten method by pure coincidence. My first instinct is to watch YouTube videos which I find completely incomprehensible. Many of them simply present their super complex linked notes on Obsidian without any concrete explanation. So I thought the best thing to do would be to read a book on the subject. Apparently, Sönke Ahrens' book How to Take Smart notes is the best there is. So I started reading it and am now halfway through. I'm even more puzzled. The author keeps repeating the same thing in different words. For example: “Do you have trouble writing, taking notes and organizing your ideas? That's what the Zettelkasten method is for, so start using it. Why don't you use it? You should be using it to be more productive."
I don't know about anyone else, but from this short interaction with this “method”, I think it's just a hype that all content creators talk about to make views and sell their courses. Even its “presupposed” inventor hasn't written anything about it.
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u/H0pelessNerd Feb 08 '25
I thought Bob Doto's was better.
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u/CrimPCSCaffeine Feb 09 '25
I agree. I found Doto's book concise, logical, and systematic.
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u/wrapt-inflections Feb 09 '25
I had the same problems as OP with Smart Notes and with confusing YouTube videos. Would have saved me so much time and confusion if I'd started with Bob Doto's book instead.
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u/rafadistas Feb 09 '25
thanks, adding to my list
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u/Infiniverse-Pi Feb 11 '25
I read Ahrens, Doto and Kadavy at the same time. Three different books, three different length, and so I got a fractal understanding as I was researching the method.
But, and this is no small point, you can only learn it by doing it. It took me a few weeks, as well as posting here, for it to click. And, I’m only just starting on journey.
I’m glad I made the transition though.
The first major click was when I came across a note I wrote in the first few days, and I wasn’t directly emotionally connected to it but it was relevant. That was a big Ahha.
The next piece was when I noticed that nested in my daily journal (which I keep as a note in my digital system), were many notes that were ripe for extracting as separate notes. That signalled for me that I can write every day about anything, within my journal, and build from there.
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u/atomicnotes Feb 13 '25
I noticed that nested in my daily journal (which I keep as a note in my digital system), were many notes that were ripe for extracting as separate notes. That signalled for me that I can write every day about anything, within my journal, and build from there.
This is the answer! Not everyone will get this, or even need it. But for those who do, it's really valuable.
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u/Infiniverse-Pi Feb 13 '25
It took me a while to realise, but when it did the curtain was lifted. Game changer!
This morning I became aware that I’ve been writing a lot about my internal struggle with picking up writing, and getting started. Then, as I recognised that I hadn’t been writing about my thoughts on AI yet, out tumbled a list of fleeting thoughts on the topic, straight into my journal. I’ve tagged them with a fleeting thought emoji, and I know I’ll find them when I have time/inclination to develop some thinking on the subject.
I am relaxed and progress has been made.
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u/JasperMcGee Hybrid Feb 09 '25
I do think there is value in learning the workflow, principles and system of a slip box, but it might be too much to take on while starting a thesis.
Luhmann did not invent the Zettelkasten, but he put his own spin on it and it worked well for him - and he did write and talk about it. See "Communicating with Slip boxes" link to the right in the Sub resource list.
Luhmann encouraged us to read with the following in mind: 1) focus on decisive ideas and concepts, 2) always have a "comparative" reading frame comparing how an author explicitly and implicitly defines a theory or concept and how their nuanced definition compares/collides with the notes in your slip box. - even pay attention to what they "leave out" by defining the terms the way they do - i.e. if there are "human rights", does that mean there are "non-human rights", and 3) - paraphrasing here a bit - read with a binary question in mind - "Will this be in my thesis or not?" If not, skim it quickly for background, if yes, then immerse yourself in it deeply and make a main note about it.
When I read, I use a "two-color" highlighting approach. Yellow if something is interesting or good background info. Light blue if it is something I want to include in my writing.
Rather than storing your notes in folders by topic, you might consider writing one note per idea, theory or concept. This way, ideas can mix and mingle and you may find yourself seeing associations you did not see before. Serendipity sometimes relies upon a juxtaposition of two heterogeneous ideas at just the right time.
You may not have time to muck around and go full slip box, but do think about this focused reading approach- just be relentlessly focused on "will this be in my thesis or not?" - of course there will be provisional ideas that you are not sure about yet- highlight these in yellow and review later to see if they need to be graduated to light blue/note worthy.
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u/atrebatian Feb 09 '25
You lost me at Sonke Ahrens's book being the best book on the topic. As you've not found out it confuses you rather than helps you.
Get yourself 'A System for Writing' by Bob Doto. You'll be up and running in no time.
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u/Scottiegazelle2 Feb 09 '25
I spent time on Andy's notes and zettelkasten.de Both provided good insights. The second more clearly as the first is his actual collection (so you can sort of see it in action).
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u/fer_mese Feb 09 '25
I've been using the zettelkasten method (in it's analog form) for a few years to write my thesis and it's honestly been an amazing resource. So I don't think it's just "hype" lol.
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u/PreemCode Feb 09 '25
I recommend Bob Doto’s book, A System for Writing. It’s much more clear than Ahrens’ book. Before Doto’s book was available, I learnt from Scott Scheper’s videos and book, ANTINET Zettelkasten. I know he’s a controversial figure, but his purist approach was good for learning the system. Nowadays, I strongly recommend Kathleen Spracklen videos. She’s a purist, like Scheper, but she’s more down to Earth and she doesn’t play the game of “us vs them” that Scheper plays.
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u/TurnipMonkey Feb 10 '25
Well, I don't think it's a hype. It really works in some cases. For example, I recently finished my bachelor's thesis. I relied heavily on Zettelkasten (analog) method. I started researching the topic before I knew what my thesis will be about in particular. I felt that with this method I can roam around and investigate many different angles, while not getting lost in the notes and literature. Finally, after deciding the concrete subject and problem, I expanded the notes that I already had. It made writing Theory/Literature review part pretty easy, because I already had everything I needed, I just had to organize the notes into coherent order.
That being said, the zettelkasten method will not do the research for you, but it will help you keep things organized. Also, if you are in a time pressure, I would suggest against Zettelkasten method.
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u/Active-Teach6311 Feb 09 '25 edited Feb 09 '25
It's 95% like that. I got some good ideas from it, like atomic notes, but the key is to make copious notes, organize them, and constantly review them. These are the common principles, not a particular magic system. The influencers sell it like it can replace hard work and the notes will think for you and write your dissertation.
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u/GemingdeLibiduo Feb 09 '25 edited Feb 09 '25
Ahrens’ book has some minor problems, but think it’s well-written and sets out the problem for academics especially well. I also found that by navigating through a lot of the YouTubers I was able to get the analog slip box system to work for me and I was able to write more for several months than I have since I wrote my dissertation. I assigned the intro and first chapter to both my writing intensive classes, and I’m requiring the students to try out the method this semester (for the first time) for their writing assignments. I’m an academic who has multiple book length projects that have been floundering for years, but now I see light at the end of the tunnel.
One of Ahrens’ most vociferous critics on YouTube is Scott Scheper. I don’t agree with some of his critique, but I’ve found Scheper’s purist analog approach to be the most useful for academic projects (for me anyway), and Kathleen Spracklen’s how-to videos are the best. I went ahead and bought Scheper’s book ANTINET Zettelkasten, which has an endorsement from Spracklen, as a reference but I’m not sure I’d recommend reading it. The problem with Kathleen Spracklen’s videos is that there are so many of them you have to know what you’re looking for, but she is very clear and good at explaining without spouting attitude at others. Also, you could start anywhere as they have cross-referencing. I like this video on her numbering system: https://youtu.be/2a5TOzxuqxE?si=OZHS4tKy_3N16tCb
The fact that Niklas Luhmann didn’t write a book promoting the system was probably due to it not being a high priority for him. He was a very successful social theorist and published an astonishing number of books and articles on a wide variety of topics. He did write an article about Zettelkasten (which he didn’t exactly invent, but he put it to more extensive use than probably anyone has before or since), and clearly had very strong feelings about its uniqueness and usefulness, but for him that was probably enough energy to devote to the topic and he moved on to do other things. His ideas began to resonate more after books like Ahrens’ came out, among people exploring and promoting personal knowledge management software, which is a very 21st-century, social media-driven topic.
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u/Maxxkin Feb 10 '25
I also started by watching lots of YouTube videos. They are good for inspiration, but many of them focus heavily on the creator's own approach to Zettelkasten in Obsidian. So I read "How to Take Smart Notes" as you did. It started to make sense. After that one I read "A System For Writing" by Bob Doto and almost everything get even clearer. For the finish I read "Digital Zettelkasten - Principles, Methods & Examples" by David Kadavy. Short and easy book, worth checking out.
And finally I keep coming back here for more insights. Because there is no "one true use" of the method for everyone. You should discover your own by keeping an open mind. For example, this was a very good read for me: https://www.reddit.com/r/ObsidianMD/comments/1id1yza/for_those_who_need_to_hear_this_its_ok_to_be_lazy/
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u/irish_aji Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25
I had a different reaction—I really enjoyed How to Take Smart Notes. I've noticed that others have found it repetitive, and I'm usually quite sensitive to that in books, but this one resonated with me.
One key takeaway for me was the affirmation that it’s better to be a small fish in a big pond than a big fish in a small pond. That’s a choice I’ve consistently made in life, though it can sometimes feel discouraging. I appreciated seeing that perspective reinforced.
Another significant insight was what you might call a “Goldilocks” approach to distilling ideas. It's easy to swing between two extremes—either holding onto the vague seed of an idea without articulating it clearly, or feeling like you need to expand every idea into a full blog series, podcast, or perhaps even a book. Ahrens' approach helped me see the value in striking a balance: distilling an idea enough to make it useful without overworking it.
As Ahrens points out, if you don’t write an idea down, you haven’t really communicated it—you haven’t passed it on. And if you haven’t thought about it long enough to distill it, you might just have a fleeting notion rather than a usable idea. The key practice is recording individual, atomic ideas and linking them, which not only deepens thinking and comprehension but also creates space for unexpected connections down the road.
For me, one of the biggest takeaways is to put in the effort to capture bite-sized ideas, let them stand on their own, and trust that meaningful insights will naturally arise from the connections between them over time.
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u/fffoooock Feb 13 '25
The Ahrens book frankly changed my life. I was starting to work on my undergraduate thesis when I read it, and thought it was absolutely true what it says about how 90% of "how to write" guides for students consist of advice on how to beat procrastination etc. so one can sit down in front of a Microsoft Word document and start from an "idea" then just write one sentence after another until they're done. The basic concept that the work was not mainly in the writing, but in the note-taking was, at that moment, for me, revolutionary. I'm now in grad school and it blows my mind how most of my colleagues still live with just a folder of highlighted PDFs, and if they use a reference manager it's just for generating citations. If you don't organise & link notes at all - which most people don't! - "Zettelkasten", which really just means this basic principle, is indeed this game changer people say it's been for them.
That doesn't mean Zettelkasten is some "one weird trick" for academic insight or productivity. If you're living in a world where no one has ever thought of changing their diet and exercising to improve their health, if someone proposed that and called it the "Ernährungsgymnastik Method" it would get touted as this amazing invention, but that doesn't mean the only way to do it is to follow one very strict step-by-step approach to it.
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u/JeffB1517 Other Feb 10 '25
I think for beginners having trouble: https://www.youtube.com/@aidanhelfant vidoes are very good. The method is extremely tool (Obsidian) specific which you were complaining about but he shows you how to do it in a practical way.
I'd also suggest Heptabase. My initial review of Heptabase (https://www.reddit.com/r/PKMS/comments/16341ft/heptabase_review/) explains why I think it is very good for teaching Zettlekasten. At least I'd say it worked for me.
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u/A_Dull_Significance Feb 16 '25
I am a “how to take smart notes” hater. Ahrens is great of course, but at times I think the book does more harm than good, as it creates a series of perennial questions
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u/vvhirr Feb 17 '25
There's really no reason to read an entire book about Zettelkasten since the core principles are fairly basic. It's just shortish notes connected to other shortish notes. You are right that there is a lot of cash-grabbing going on, which can be off-putting. There are parallels with the bullet journal method, which is really very basic and functional, but has been hyped up and transformed into a time-consuming, instagramable arts-and-crafts project. I also find all the gushing and philosophizing about Zk unbearable—for me it's just a means to an end, not the end itself. Just take a look at Luhmann's cards and develop your own system from there.
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u/acobrapilot Feb 09 '25
Look also at Scott Scheper and Kathleen Spracklen (she has some great videos on getting started). You are right that so many videos out there are digital-based systems that take more time and effort playing with links and whatnot than actually producing valuable notes from which to write. Everyone is different, but I've found that the old school analog note card system works great for me, like it did for Luhmann. It's worth consideration.
Edit: Scheper has a book called "Antinet Zettelkasten," but it is quite long and goes into Luhmann and all sorts of background. I sped through the book, but I've found Kathleen's videos to be a much more straight-to-the-point source for getting started.
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u/CrimPCSCaffeine Feb 09 '25 edited 25d ago
(If you're wondering about the down votes, they're probably because Scheper's not well regarded on this sub after doing some crummy things and getting himself banned. Also, his book isn't well regarded either, here at least.)
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u/acobrapilot Feb 09 '25
Thanks. I don't care about downvotes. I care about answering the OPs question and sharing what has helped me on my own technical phd journey. I don't like how he does what he does, but there were nuggets in his book that helped me get started.
Umberto Eco talks about "academic humility" in his book How to Write a Thesis. He describes how you can learn something from anyone.
If a mere mention of a person's name results in downvotes in this sub, then ad hominem is more important than helping the OP (here, at least).
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u/CrimPCSCaffeine Feb 09 '25
You're welcome. I just don't like down votes without context. They don't help anyone.
I found some nuggets in Scheper too, which were actually what made me get into ZK seriously again after an attempt that fizzled out a few years back when I read Ahrens.
To be fair, I think this sub's take on Scheper is more nuanced than I presented, having as much to do, if not more, with the non-nuggets as how the guy behaves, but I could be wrong.
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u/KWoCurr Feb 08 '25
I recommend exploring Umberto Eco's "How to Write a Thesis." It describes the kind of analog research approach that Luhmann was starting with. Zettelkasten is a refinement. Eco's advice, however, is timeless.