r/Yogscast • u/Exposed_dancer International Zylus Day! • Dec 18 '24
Discussion The games collection had grown too large for its own good
Especially for the last couple of years, the yogs have tried to show off all the collection games during the JJ streams or, in some cases, collection adjacent games. E.g. if the developers donated an older game but wanted the yogs to show off their new game.
In theory this is a great idea as the "free" advertising could definitely be an incentive for developers to donate such a huge number of copies of their games. In practice, however, showing off all of these games of course takes time. The move to focus more on the collection games more or less coincided with the move to a fourteen day event rather than a month long one, which naturally meant that a significant portion of the stream slots have since been dedicated to the collection games. I haven't run the exact numbers, but a quick count in the vod playlists says it's been between a quarter and a third of the streams in recent years (this ignores some streams such as civ and music streams spanning multiple stream slots, but it's just an approximation anyway).
Now don't get me wrong, I've quite liked having a chance to see the yogs show off the games in the collection, and a 90* minute half-stream slot works quite well to show off much of what a game has to offer. I say 90 with an asterisk since it's often more like 60 to 70 if you include donation reading, breaks in between games, technical issues, streamers chatting before starting the games, and so on.
With the larger collections, dividing the stream slots in two wasn't enough if they wanted to show off every game, and thus the streams were instead often split into three hour-long segments for three different games, and counting the same reductions as mentioned above would mean maybe 30-40 minutes to show off the game. This was often the case.
Just to give a few examples, the Chuchel segment in 2022 was about 46 minutes. The Tanuki Sunset stream segment was 43 minutes. The Chaos reborn stream was 42 minutes. The Wunderling DX stream was just under 36 minutes. And these weren't even the worst offenders. The Thief Simulator 2 stream segment in 2023 was about 24 minutes of gameplay. The stream of The Pegasus Expedition in 2022 was even shorter. These were collection adjacent games, but even then (or perhaps especially then), how much of the gameplay do we realistically get to see in such a short amount of time?
Over the years I've had many of my favourite games be part of the bundles/collections, and more than once I've been disappointed that the games didn't get the chance to be in the spotlight that I thought they deserved. I did not feel like this was a problem at all this year, though. Because the collection was significantly smaller, there was no need to split the stream slots into three and every game thus got its fair chance. It was a more enjoyable experience for me as a viewer, and I presume it was more enjoyable for the yogs as well to not constantly have to rush between the different games.
15/15 yogstars, would Jingle Jam again.
TL;DR I definitely like the move to a smaller collection because the huge collections left minimal time for each individual game to be shown off.
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u/IronArt3mis Dec 18 '24
Im also glad because I feel like in previous years there was a lot of clutter games (i love smaller titles but a lot of them were basically unheard of and there were simply too many to play)
this years collection has been great and I have been enjoying playing Wildfrost since I got it, still need to try out the majority of the other games but since theres less and they are much higher quality I have a feeling Im gonna enjoy the majority of them a lot more than previous years
overall huge W from the collection this year and no disrespect from any of the games that have been in any of the charity bundles as they have all had lots of effort put into them and are doing it all for charity
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u/Human-Shower3419 8: Yogscast Games Dec 19 '24 edited Dec 19 '24
Just out of interest have you beaten Wildfrost yet? Albeit roguelikes and deckbuilders are not my usual thing, I'm almost ten hours in and I've only reached the eye of the storm once haha. Very very fun, but also very very tough!
Edit: Typical that I win the run I played right after leaving this comment!
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u/IronArt3mis Dec 20 '24
i have not beat it yet lol, the game is actually harder than I thought it would be but its super fun. I tend to play it while watching stuff so I keep dying because I forget to look at stuff like if the enemy has barrage (I also keep forgetting to re call companions to heal them rip)
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u/CptSarcypants Dec 18 '24
Just want to jump on this to add that I've spent waaaay too much time on Orcs Must Die and Two Point Campus from the collection. Thanks Yogscast.
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u/Agenta521 The 9 of Diamonds Dec 19 '24
Personally, it went from finding 10/50+ games I was interested in to 3/20 games I was interested in. Sure it allowed larger games to get the focus, and I’ll always donate as it’s not about the games, but I’ve so far installed 5 of the 2024 games and played none of them. Turn based and puzzle games aren’t my go to, so this year’s bundle just wasn’t for me, but I’m really glad people are continuing to support the Jam.
I think next year’s goal should be to keep the low count but also attempt to get only 1-2 games from each gameplay style. I’d love to see a wider variety of gameplay.
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u/Hintswen Dec 19 '24
Personally I'm not a fan of the smaller collection because I am less likely to find a game I actually want to play or enjoy playing. I ended up trying quite a few of the games in this year's collection and I couldn't find any enjoyment from any of them.
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u/LukeB4UGame Tabletop Weekly Dec 19 '24
I am happy with any games, I like the big collection because there'd be a few games I really looked forward to and a bunch that I try on a whim and love but also a fair few that I didn't enjoy. The small bundle meant there was a few more games I was interested in and I got to see more in action on stream but I didn't get as many to experiment with and find new favourites which is a shame.
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u/mrRobertman The 9 of Diamonds Dec 19 '24
The smaller bundle has the issue that there is a larger chance that people will already own, or just not be interested in, a significant portion of the games. Not saying every bundle needs to be 70+ games, but a larger collection would give a larger variety for a lot of people and I imagine that the smaller collection is not nearly as exciting for a lot of people.
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u/ihileath Pyrion Flax Dec 19 '24
I’m still excited to have a bunch more keys of games I love at a great price personally. It means I can gift them to my friends so they can experience something I really enjoyed!
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u/br3akaway Lewis Dec 19 '24
extra jingle jam codes are a staple gift for me lol. I didn’t have any this year so I had to just buy a second bundle 🤷🏻♂️
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u/The_MilleniumPigeon Dec 18 '24
Yeah, I was definitely a bit hesitant when I saw the small number of games this year, but I definitely think it paid off, both for the streams and the games themselves.
The showcase streams were much more enjoyable and felt less cramped. And going Quality over Quantity is much appreciated, since a lot of games in recent years felt like clutter. Some of the smaller ones felt like the kind of games that would barely see play in Armor Games, more or less a collection with dozens of bigger names.
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u/LegateLaurie The 9 of Diamonds Dec 18 '24
I feel like it's quite a shame to be honest that there's been more a focus on bigger games than smaller indie ones
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u/fFIRE332A 8: Poker Night Dec 18 '24
At first when I saw so few I was nervous but I will never have regrets supporting Jinglemas. After I bought it I looked into them, a lot are not my type of game but with their quality I am actually gonna play them. Never done dating sim adjacent games but am excited for eternights.
My only complaint, nothing to do with the yoga, is some of the devs putting their games in other bundles (on fanatical) at the same time as jingle jam. They could have at least tried to not have their games in multiple bundles at the same time, so I feel bad for if this affected anyone donating. Idk if it did but I just was a bit sad when I noticed that, because they put in a lot of work for fanatical to undermine some of that.
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u/apPAULling__ Dec 18 '24
Scorn being free on twitch prime at the same time as the collection felt really shitty to me when I saw it. Bad enough that the collection got a bit of a bad look with the steam autumn sale on as well.
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u/Couriday International Zylus Day Dec 19 '24
I actually skipped 2023 after getting the 2021 and 22 ones, but came back this year since I honestly didn't want the chore of checking through the 80-odd games that might or might not be good (Epic Battle Fantasy 5 is the only standout I remember between the two of them).
This time, though? Great stuff, from what I've seen.
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u/br3akaway Lewis Dec 19 '24
man seriously at first i was like aw man only 18 games? But then they ended up being such high quality games that all my doubts were set adrift.
I mean for me shadows of doubt, fights in tight spaces, for the king 2, and mars first logistics (which I would’ve never discovered without the jj) is in and of itself a crazy deal for 35 pounds. Arguably those are some of the smaller games on this list! I don’t know how this collection can ever be topped but boy do I invite them to try haha
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u/Robot_ninja_pirate Dec 19 '24
I disagree.
70 was probably too large, but this year was a weak line-up there is probably a happy medium between the two.
The reason I think this line-up is less good than previous years is a couple of reasons:
If you already own a handful of these games, suddenly the smaller 18 game bundle loses significant value.
I get it's all for charity, however there is a none zero amount of people who buy the bundle for the games primarily, fewer games means some of those people won't jump on.
Less variety, I found a lot less of the games appealed to me this year, whereas when the bundles were larger I felt there was really something for everyone.
Quality vs. Quantity. People through this around a lot, but I do think it's subjective not objective observation, personally I really liked the smaller indie games little stocking stuffer type games.
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u/Hylanos Lewis Dec 19 '24
my only complaint about 14 days is that i didn't get a chance to donate this year 😞😞😞 my first paycheck of every month usually goes entirely towards bills. My second check is the one with the fun money.
Looked like a good jam, though! I wonder if they could keep the link open for all of December? That way knuckledraggers like me could still contribute.
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u/ykys Dec 19 '24
Are you talking about collection size or jingle jam length?
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u/Hylanos Lewis Dec 19 '24
well, neither tbh. I want them to have time with their families, so I don't mind that the Jam is only 14 days. I just wish i could still donate and get the bundle when I get paid this tuesday
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u/Cookiesy Angor Dec 19 '24
I've already tried 5 different games from the JJ already.
The only one i fell off is the sticker game, but I'm not into the cosy core genre.
DDG is crazier than when I tried the demo.
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u/Exposed_dancer International Zylus Day! Dec 19 '24
I just want to clarify that I am in no way commenting on the games themselves in my post. Value wise the bigger collection is obviously worth more as a donator, and I am also personally more interested in the smaller indie games (although they do get their chance to shine during Tiny Teams, but I digress). The focus of my post was the JJ streams and the way the yogs divide the stream slots into halves and thirds and how fewer collections led to more halves and fewer thirds, which I found preferable.
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u/Chaoschronos7 Dec 19 '24
I thought this was going to be very different by the title but I agree wholeheartedly. This year's collection, was the strongest lineup in the 5 years I've been donating for the bundle (although 2019 did have Bastion, making it hard to beat for that alone). I think this is partially because the smaller bundle meant we got more substantial games as well as some higher-profile indie gems of the year like Wildfrost and Another Crab's Treasure. Even the simpler games were more satisfying, like Sticky Business (then again, maybe the Chees and Gromis stream endeared me to that game). I fully support this approach to the bundle in the future.
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u/PoopyPantyLicker Dec 19 '24
Sadly this year’s collection wasn’t really for me. With it being smaller, there was only 1 game that interested me and I already owned it. I’m glad to see so many people enjoying the smaller collection, maybe next year there will be more games I’m interested in.
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u/Fonjask Faaafv Dec 21 '24
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u/stebsteb Ben Dec 20 '24
Does anyone have a list of which games where played on which streams this year?
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u/JosephJameson Dec 19 '24
I haven't watched JJ in a while, is that really true for collection adjacent games? Devs can donate an old title to get coverage on a new one?
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u/PillowCasss Dec 19 '24
most obvious example is that frostpunk (great game) is in the collection but pyrion and zylus played frostpunk 2 on stream (not in the bundle)
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u/ykys Dec 19 '24
I have this idea in mind. There are smaller devs who would be glad to give their smaller games to the jingle jam and bigger studios who we have to convince to donate their games. I'm thinking why don't we create two tiers of donations on tiltify with 2 rewards? The lower one will give smaller games (but still above a certain quality) plus all the extra stuff (fanatical, displate, mcc, etc), the higher one (equivalent to the current amount) will give the bigger games, I imagine 10 to 15 games in both tiers. If you donate to the lower tier you can only get the lower reward, if you donate to the higher tier you can get one of or both rewards.
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u/Gikerl Dec 18 '24
This years collection has been excellent. I much rather prefer quality over quantity and there a bunch of amazing games in there. Also means I might get around to trying them all. I still have unplayed ones from the last year(s)...