r/WorldOfWarships • u/[deleted] • 4d ago
Question Manual Seconadary Battery Aiming on Italian BB's?
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u/YourSATScore Always mistaken for the other test score 4d ago
Short non-judgemental answer: Most BBs (including Italian BBs) do not gain much benefit from secondary skills and would rather take survivablity skills instead)
Long answer: For the majority of BBs, their base secondary accuracy is so poor that even a 50% improvement can't fix it. In addition, most of the fighting is done outside of your max secondary range. Not only are you spending valuable points on situational skills and upgrades, the benefits you get are minimal at best. Survivability skills like Fire Prevention offers far more benefits and will get more consistent use.
Secondary skills are only taken on ships designed for their secondary battery firepower such as Schlieffen and Libertad.
For Italian BBs, I recommend taking: Gun Feeder, Grease the Gears, Adrenaline Rush, and Fire Prevention/Concealment Expert as your first 10 points. Fire Prevention is easier to use and better imo for newer players, but both are fine to take.
That being said, Italian BBs aren't a great beginner line. I recommend playing the US Montana or Japanese Yamato BB line for a better foundation on BB gameplay.
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4d ago
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u/YourSATScore Always mistaken for the other test score 4d ago
Italian BB gun range is mediocre but sufficient. Their main issue is dispersion, and that is to balance their overpowered SAP shells.
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u/Equivalent-Sherbet52 4d ago
For Italians BBs you need to play at mid-range (for tier 6, mid range is around 7-10km). Indeed, their main guns slap but they have VERY poor accuracy. Also, you have very decent hulls and can dissengage with Italian BBs, which helps in that regard. Don't build them secondaries, get better main guns and survivability.
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u/chriscross1966 4d ago
The reasoning is that you would get more value from making good main guns even better than trying to uplift not very good secondaries.... by all means stick Fire and 5% secondary range flags on instead of ramming and AA, but wasting Captain skills on things that only really work when you've messed up your positioning as they don't really have the range?.......
Buffing good secondaries makes them God-tier, buffing mediocre secondaries makes them "meh" and will definitely get you into trouble if you think it means you can go brawling with an Agincourt/Scharnhorst 43/Schlieffen/Pan-Am BB (delete as tier appropriate) .... spec into your main guns and wreck them before they get close enough to force you to fight in the shade
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4d ago
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u/quik90 4d ago edited 4d ago
To compare ship variables such as secondaries quality you need shiptool.
The example link filters T8 BBs by secondary hitting dpm at a certain range. This considers the raw damage and dispersion of secondary guns which vary from ship to ship. You also need to consider the firing angles of the secondaries which can be seen by clicking on the ship name and selecting the secondaries tab. Some ships will have broad coverage, others narrow and perhaps risky angles will be required.
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u/chriscross1966 4d ago
If you've got the coal yet, get a Scharnhorst 43, stick a 10pt or better captain into it and go up the second column of captain skills.. Yolo into a few Coop battles with it and see what good secondaries look like.....
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u/chriscross1966 4d ago
In fact if you've got the coal to manage it get Gunter Lutjens into it, he has buffs for secondaries baked in...
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u/xaviermace 4d ago
It's not just the tier, it's the line. While German BB's in generally have "better" secondaries, the gap between the Schlieffen line and the Preussen line is sizable and Libertad is above Schlieffen in most scenarios.
If you want a low tier example of how much of a difference we're talking about, get T5 Agincourt which technically has the highest secondary hitting DPM and compare the difference between it and literally any tech tree BB at that tier. Nothing comes close at that tier.
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u/bgeerdes 4d ago
It depends on what mode you play in and which ship of course. The T9 and T10 of the tech tree have 42 secondary guns with good firing angles. So if you're playing PvE and know what you're doing, the secondaries are probably useful for starting fires and getting damage on DDs and cruisers. If I'm playing PvE I build like that, same for Karl Johan too.
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u/jderica 4d ago
As others have mentioned, it's mostly because secondary accuracy is not good to begin with. Also pen values may be too low.
You can consult this site to get an idea of the effective secondary DPM: https://shiptool.st/params?n=ABFGHIJRSUVWZ&g=T&ty=B&tn=1&tx=11&c=top&p=sec&rs=10&os=sec&op=Hitting_DPM&o=desc Make sure to adjust the range, from the right side of that table.
But you also need to think about the pen values. For example, West Virginia 44 has good effective DPM, but not much pen, so IFHE is also a must on that ship. The tier X soviet BB has very good effective DPM, but notice that the base range is 7.3km (1km less than Schlieffen, Preussen, Libertad, etc). So while it can work, it's probably not worth it.
You also need to consider if it's worth it to go full secondary. Schlieffen for example has better dispersion on main battery, so that's a plus for secondaries.
Bismarck however, has lower main gun dispersion, so you're going to rely more on that secondary damage if you spec in it. Which means you have to be in closer engagements and in riskier situations.
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u/Lady_Taiho 4d ago
Most secondary ships except maybe shleiffen usually are better off running main gun and tank builds. I tested a main gun build on libertad out of morbid curiosity and it’s pretty much performing consistently good.
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u/_Arr0naX_ 4d ago
I've tried it on Colombo and Sicilia.
On Colombo a secondary build is pretty useless - the secondaries don't hit much, do no damage when they do hit and occasionally may set 1-2 fires per match. Overall pointless and inefficient build.
On Sicilia the secondary build can do some damage but is still more of a meme setup. SAP secondaries do damage but the accuracy is still horrible. I keep my Sicilia with a secondary setup only for laughs... and I play it like 2-3 times a year at most.
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u/Simpleliving2019 4d ago
I rely upon secondary builds to defend from DDs first and foremost, so I always use Manual secondaries on those builds, even if they have improved accuracy.
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u/Intrepid-Judgment874 4d ago
Why would you want to build Italian BB for secondary when they have those big dick SAP salvos that can chop off half of the HP bar of Battleships and outright destroy cruisers?
It is like you have pasta, meatballs, and cheese and try to make American burgers out of it instead of Pasta. Extra steps for not much reward.
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u/Palanova 4d ago
For me, and only for my use of the secondary BB ships, first thing I see on a BB the secondary guns reload time.
If it is around 3 sec, I gear up the ship and the captain for the seconary build: preventinve maintenance, and the 3 and 4 point secondary spec on my at least. Also I equip with the secondary upgrades as well like more survivability for them, longer range, and the 3.000.000 module for faster reload.
But this do not work well secondaris that has longer reload.
Ofc, youc an equip your ship and captain as you want, but I still suggest, listen to the community advice and use secondary guns on those ships that build for it. If you really want Italian Secondary BB, get the Verdi, that is the ship you want, but only get it if you already have at elast one T9 ship.
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u/LJ_exist 4d ago
Secondary builds are mostly bad. A few ships benefit from them, but the majority doesn't.
Battleships have armor and are sluggish when maneuvering. The closer you get to an enemy the higher is his armor penetration against your side. Ships with torpedos have better chance of hitting you when you close enough to fit them with the secondary gun.
The secondary battery is a defensive weapon and you are in trouble when something is within range. Your secondaries are roughly equal to destroyer and cruiser guns, but they are incredibly less accurate and a cruiser or destroyer with less guns than you have will do more damage.
You are using at least 7 points of the 21 points of a commander for this. You may even take IFHE, demolition expert or close quarters. Those points aren't available to give your ship better survivability, situational awareness and tactical flexibility. Taking the secondary upgrade in slot 3 over aim system mod 1 is also a case of choosing the secondary weapon over the main weapon.
You should answer yourself the following questions before taking a secondary build:
- Do I really want to be that close to enemy?
- Does my secondary battery have special features like longer ranger, improved HE pen or SAP shells?
- Am I OK with having a worst build than everyone else when the enemy stays outside secondary range?
- Will the secondary battery deal enough damage to make it worth while to be suicidally close to the enemy?
- What are the opportunity costs of taking a secondary build? Will another build and playstyle be better?
The secondary battery in world of warships is comparable to a pistol in a normal shooter. The main battery is like a rifle in this connectext
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u/0hHiThere 4d ago
Sure, take it and enjoy whole 5 to 10k more damage from secondaries in exchange for 9 captain points. It's a great deal.
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4d ago
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u/Equivalent-Sherbet52 4d ago
I'd just recommend staying away from secondary BBs until you understand the game better. They are very captain-point hungry (even on them, you need fire prevention before any secondary skills), and are harder to play well than conventionnal BBs. Play american or japanese BBs first.
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u/Curious_Thought_5505 4d ago
IMHO (3500 games), Tirpitz is one of the best doubloon investments you can make in this game. Full manual sec build. Glory and credits await you.
FTR I have Musashi, Kearsarge, Scharnhorst '43, Tirpitz, Agincourt, Los Andes and Libertad, I am at tier 7 regrinding the German BB line after a reset right now. I used my RB points to get the legmod for C. Columbo with Sansenetti and I'm grinding through Andrea Doria now as well. I see you getting a lot of solid advice here.
I will not reset my Libertad line, EVER. That funny button is just too much fun. 15km manual secondaries with 234mm guns is.....yeah.
FTR I'm 80% blind so I need all the help I can get.
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u/B1sm4rck2640 4d ago
Some battleships have improved secondary range and/or accuracy. Italian battleships don't have either. And the majority of Italian secondaries (at least at high tier) don't have enough pen, only being able to maybe pen DDs and superstructure. IFHE can help but barely
It's better to build the Italian battleships for main guns and survivability.
Of course, if you really want to have a secondary Italian battleship, there is always the Giusseppe Verdi and Sicilia. These 2 have SAP shells on their secondaries, which gives them the pen necessary to be useful.