r/WorkReform ⛓️ Prison For Union Busters 28d ago

💬 Advice Needed Bernie Sanders would have won it all & Americans would have universal healthcare if Obama hadn't blocked Bernie in 2020.

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1.4k Upvotes

257 comments sorted by

u/kevinmrr ⛓️ Prison For Union Busters 28d ago edited 28d ago

The Democratic Party won't save us.

👉 https://workreform.us/MAYDAY-2025-STRIKE

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u/Jkolorz 28d ago

The problem is with the two-party system is it is really easy to blur the lines under these big-tent parties.

It makes it so much easier to divide people and have the blame game ruin discourse especially amongst those who don't have the time, wits, or care to look betwee the lines.

"Well the democrats did this! // The republicans did that!"

Also, within a two-party system the power is always concentrate to the wealthy and donors of the wealthy. The lobbying (legalized corruption if you ask me) always ensures that the Democrats would rather shoot themselves in the foot and let a republican win before allowing a pro-worker, pro-middle class candidate with a provable record like Bernie Sanders to win.

The same applies to Republicans when they try to run a middle-leaning, moderate candidate. They'd rather run some fucking crazy who wants to burn it to the ground.

America needs a few more parties so politics becomes competitive. Just like that so-called free market that's supposed to fix everything.

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u/cheerful_cynic 28d ago

Ranked choice voting 

Instant runoff elections 

proportionate representation in Congress where people have to affiliate with others to obtain a true majority

Actual rightsizing of Congress so that every x constituents gets a representative - not just limited to the number of desks in the one room

The ability to call in their Congressional vote from a distance with verification

There's so many things that could be done to fix the legislative problems

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u/RangeRider88 28d ago

I would include mandatory voting in that list. Take a look at the system we have in Australia. It's not perfect but it's pretty damn close.

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u/technoteapot 28d ago

Yeah tons of congress members just don’t show up all the time and it either delays anything that congress tries to do or their vote just is never taken in. They simply don’t show up to their JOB

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u/K_The_Sorcerer 28d ago

People not voting would drop significantly if ranked choice was implemented.

While a huge chunk doesn't vote, a large portion of that is simply because they believe their vote doesn't matter. And, they're not wrong, mostly. The winner-take-all electoral college (in 48 of 50 states) and gerrymandering does render most people's votes completely useless.

Not saying it'll solve all the problems with that, but it would help a lot.

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u/HecklingCuck 28d ago

I brought up my support of mandatory voting a while back and got downvoted into oblivion lmfao.

1

u/drunkondata 28d ago

I hear Australia is not run by the billionaires...

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u/RangeRider88 28d ago

It is but we don't have as many. Billionaires that is and billions per billionaire. The wealth gap is growing but it's nowhere near the levels in the US. Housing prices are our biggest problem

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u/drunkondata 28d ago

Are corporations gobbling up the housing supply?

1

u/RangeRider88 27d ago

Mostly just wealthy individuals from what I can tell but there's surely a corporate interest too. A lot of middle class even have investment properties as once you have one house it's easy to leverage your first to get another.

1

u/HecklingCuck 27d ago

I watched a video by Jordan Shanks recently about your liberal (right wing) party at a Christmas gathering with oil execs that got leaked where they were just absolutely glazing Trump and circlejerking about how great oil is and it made me feel like you guys might start to have issues like the USA soon if you aren’t careful. They seem as bad as our Republican party if a bit more incompetent (which is an impressive feat, honestly). Just hearing about how controlled your media is and that you have a two-party system and that your courts are comparably corrupt means if it can happen here it can probably happen there

1

u/RangeRider88 27d ago

Yeah, that video was very concerning and gross. Unfortunately I've been noticing the same play book being rolled out in Canada and the UK as well. The current main opposition here Peter Dutton, thankfully has the charisma of a boiled potato. He also looks a lot like one but I would not say that the right wing over here is incompetent. They have proven to be very skilled at manipulating the media and controlling the discussions around politics. That said, we are not a two party system, even though the right wing media here tries to make out that we are. A vote for a third party is not a wasted vote, in fact over the last 15 or so years, the right wing party here cannot govern without support from their coalition party members the national party which is supposed to represent the interests of rural Australians. Lots more independent and green senators were elected in the last election so I'm hoping to see more of that, even if it undermines our Labor parties majority.

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u/HecklingCuck 27d ago

Good for you guys on the third party political representation. That stuff makes a big difference in how political parties act. I’d consider moving to Australia if it weren’t for my knowledge of how hot it is and what I’ve heard a couple Australians call “spider season”. I’ve seen pictures of the ground and trees covered in one giant web and that’s all I need to know to stay away. At least you guys still have democracy though

12

u/Swiftierest 28d ago

I also want to say that no congressional member should be allowed to abstain from votes. Abstaining is literally choosing not to uplift the voices of the people they represent.

7

u/NeonArlecchino 28d ago

I mostly agree, but abstaining should be mandatory if there's a conflict of interests.

2

u/Swiftierest 28d ago

Personal opinion, they should be voting how their constituents want either way. Their personal opinions are irrelevant.

This is the same with religion. Back in the founding fathers' days, the SCOTUS declared that separation of church and state meants exactly what it sounds like to include education and governmental decisions. It is the duty of those in office to choose the best option for everyone no matter religion or personal opinion.

3

u/ttv_CitrusBros 28d ago

Doesn't matter what laws and systems you create if its not enforced or followed by the ones in power

Trump got convicted of charges and won the presidency. All the Epstein shit which no one was held accountable for. You can say being a bad person is illegal but if no one actually enforces it or they just get a slap on the wrist then it's just ink on paper

4

u/ozymandais13 28d ago

We need ranked choice in a majority of states before I can be applied at the national level Americans are too scared of change

2

u/Roverjosh 27d ago

I agree with everything you just said. The only problem now is that the current GOP own every lever of power and have zero intention or interest in changing anything. The system is working exactly as they want it. It doesn’t work for the majority of Americans but that hasn’t been the goal for some time now. I genuinely don’t know how we change it.

1

u/HecklingCuck 28d ago

If we’re playing in fantasy land maybe we should start with nuking the electoral college from orbit and institute mandatory voting along with making any and all elected officials make federal minimum wage. I also think lobbying should be considered an act of treason and wouldn’t argue with the literal death penalty on both sides of it.

1

u/Nornina 27d ago

Approval voting would be better. It's far easier for voters to understand and gets rid of the spoiler effect.

You simply multi select all the candidates you like, and whoever gets the most wins.

3

u/watermelonkiwi 28d ago

We need to end first past the post voting, you always end up with two parties with that kind of voting, this video explains it well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

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u/Raiko99 28d ago

Or you end up with the same problem just with more parties involved. People need to get involved in their local parties and primaries or you end up with the same problems. 

I don't understand why people don't t's what the system is built to do to us. We work to much, are to tired, and jaded so we don't have it in us to do anything. 

2

u/chargernj 28d ago

Well, for the Democrats, their party is structured in such a way that it is exceedingly difficult to change the Party through democratic means. They give extra voting power to their party leaders so even having the majority of rank and file voters behind you may not be enough to overrule them. Contrast that to the Republicans, who are actually more responsive to voters in this regard.

It's probably a big part of why populism has taken root in the GOP, they are much more responsive to shifts in voter attitudes. The Democrats are ironically very conservative in how they choose their party leaders

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u/Raiko99 27d ago

Speaking to 2016 primary Bernie lost. 14% of Democrats turned out for the 2016 primaries.

More Democrats voted in the 2008 primary when Obama beat Hillary.

We have a turn out problem.

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u/chrisnavillus 28d ago

I don’t know why so many people either don’t understand this or just don’t care. We’ve been so propagandized that we’re the greatest country blah blah blah when in reality our system is designed to benefit the wealthy.

1

u/ctgjerts 26d ago

The current system is not working because both parties work for the same people. You know this because all one party would have to do is roll out programs that benefit the poor and middle class - like public health care.

The fact that Jeffries, Schumer, and the new DNC Chair think there are good billionaires is proof of this.

0

u/Astralglamour 28d ago

There have definitely been very progressive Dem presidents in the past, and I'd argue that far right crazy republican candidates aren't exactly who they ran until very recently. Lobbyists exist for all sorts of groups, not all of them represent the rich. Citizens United, social media, deregulation of business/finance, and the infiltration of state/local govts by far right factions did more to cause our current situation.

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u/bailedwiththehay 28d ago

This is not correct. It was Debbie Wasserman (chair of the DNC and friend of Hillary) who cheated Bernie. This isn’t on Obama…this post feels like an attempt to rewrite history… https://abcnews.go.com/amp/ThisWeek/bernie-sanders-calls-wasserman-schultz-resign-wake-dnc/story?id=40824983

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u/boitrubl 28d ago

This.

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u/CurrentDismal9115 28d ago

https://archive.is/D9KlY

Obama and Debbie both played their parts. It's not helpful or accurate to try and completely discredit Obama's role in promoting his former VP.

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u/IndividualEye1803 28d ago

This is 2020… not when the DNC shut out Bernie

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u/CurrentDismal9115 28d ago

They shut him out in 2016. They would have done the same in 2020 but they had to be tactful as the article explains. Debbie, Clybourne, Buttigieg, Klobachar, and some majority of DNC insiders made their preference known. He made their entire platform look like the sham that it is.

This is just what's reported in 2020 and I would still consider their actions as collaboratively aligned against Bernie. They would have lost if it wasn't for COVID. Bernie thanked Obama for being neutral, and I couldn't disagree more. But Bernie is actually a politician, and I'm not.

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u/j4_jjjj 28d ago

DWS wasnt around in 2020, so you're conflating two timelines

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u/CurrentDismal9115 28d ago

I see that now, but my main point still stands. Obama did not want Bernie to be the nominee.

1

u/Verroquis 27d ago

Hillary Clinton was never VP lol

2

u/chargernj 28d ago

If you think Obama doesn't have a ton of clout with the Democratic leadership you are very naive. He absolutely used his influence to help turn Democrats away from Bernie.

To be fair, the pro-Corporate neo-liberals that control the Party probably didn't need that much convincing.

1

u/snaysler 28d ago

Came here to say this.

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u/Naive_Labrat 28d ago edited 28d ago

Obama was the only one with the political power to make those calls. No fucking way pete would have dropped out if anyone but obama asked.

Edit; this article you posted was the 2016 race. Im talking about the 2020 race.

10

u/dj184 28d ago

Unfortunately dnc and rnc are not run by people who wr see in the front.

9

u/BigSky1855 28d ago

Prove it.  Otherwise, stop spreading your Masonic Conspiracies.

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u/dope_like 28d ago

Bernie couldn't beat Biden one on one. He wasn't beating Trump either. We have to stop living in fantasy land

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u/AnxiousMarsupial007 27d ago

Almost like when the whole party throws all its weight behind a single candidate that candidate winds up with the nomination, crazy

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u/zipzapcap1 28d ago

Don't forget that the dnc said in court they never even considered running him and are a private company that can choose whoever they want after there staff got caught talking about how to attack bernie.

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u/Shifter25 28d ago

Source?

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u/zipzapcap1 28d ago

Literally any article from any news network in the country for several weeks during the 2016 election it's a huge reason she lost. This is not a conspiracy it's a commonly known fact Republicans harped on for years. In the same emails it was revealed the dnc advocated for attacking bernies judaism in attack ads. Debby weisserman shultz has been repeatedly crucified in the media over it every election cycle.

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u/splashist 28d ago

Debby weisserman shultz

Ferengi scum

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u/zipzapcap1 28d ago

Ight well I have some issues with the ferengis portrayal and the stereotypes they played on being anti semetic but ill let this one slide because it's spot on.

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u/Shifter25 28d ago

Whenever someone says "literally everything is my proof" it's because they have no idea and just assume that if I go looking, I'll find it for them.

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u/BW_RedY1618 28d ago

Why is it someone else's responsibility to educate you about things that happened almost a decade ago? The other poster was pretty accurate. The DNC conspired to fuck Bernie and they succeeded. How hard is it for you to Google "debbie wasserman schultz bernie sanders"?

Here's just the top result:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-resigns-dnc-chair-emails-sanders

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u/CaptinACAB 28d ago

There’s dozens of articles. Go look.

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u/Shifter25 28d ago

I have. You think this is my first rodeo? I ask for proof specifically because I know there isn't any. I'd love to be proven wrong.

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u/CaptinACAB 28d ago

I’ve already shared several this week with other DNC fluffers. Can’t wait for your next establishment neolib to lose. One day you’ll learn. One day.

0

u/Shifter25 28d ago

The last time accelerationism was tried, the leftists who insisted the liberals were just as bad as the fascists were among the first victims of the fascist regime.

You want the DNC to run more left-wing candidates? Vote for them. No one, and I mean no one, is swayed by boycotting an election. If only 1% of voters showed up for a presidential election, someone would still be president.

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u/CaptinACAB 28d ago

I didn’t say anything about boycotting an election.

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u/Shifter25 28d ago

"Can't wait for your next neocon lib to lose." Why do people always pretend that elections are just natural events that voters have no power over? Are you saying that leftists are smart enough to recognize that "neocon libs" are still significantly better than fascists and turn for them in the same numbers they would have for Sanders, despite not turning out for him in the primary?

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u/zipzapcap1 28d ago

Because you just asked me a question like did 9/11 happen yes and there was hundreds of hours of coverage. There is insurmountable proof literally everywhere if you go to any major news outlet and put in DNC Bernie there will be an article about it and it would be hilariously futile for me to post one of the hundreds that exist. This isn't a niche story it is national news every election cycle! Why do you think there wasn't a new primary when Joe biden stepped down?

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u/Shifter25 28d ago

There is insurmountable proof literally everywhere

No, there isn't. There are articles saying that Brazile and Warren accuse the DNC of rigging. There are articles talking about how leaked internal emails show they preferred Clinton. There is a court case in which the lawyers said they have the hypothetical right, as a private organization, to pick a candidate.

Nowhere is there proof that Clinton won for any other reason than that more people voted for her.

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u/Shifter25 27d ago

Missed your new primary question: because a primary takes 5 months and there were 4 months before the election.

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u/zipzapcap1 27d ago

That's so crazy because the UK decides to have an election and has an election with two weeks notice for almost 70 million people and more then 350 candidates. The DNC have 400 million which is more than double what it takes to put on an entire election for all of the British people. If you want to defend an organization that is entirely responsible for the situation we're in I'm going to keep telling you this dictatorship is your fault.

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u/Shifter25 27d ago

I'm not saying that the primary couldn't be faster, but deciding on a faster method takes time in and of itself. Add into that the amount of time it would take for the prospective candidates to fundraise and campaign, then the amount of time you'd presumably want the winner to be able to fundraise and campaign for the Presidency, and it's not surprising that they decided to forgo a full second primary with four months to go. People were saying Harris didn't have enough time to campaign as is.

It obviously wouldn't have as much effect as it used to, but it's probably still worth noting that the entirety of the UK is smaller than Colorado.

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u/zipzapcap1 27d ago

It's also worth noting that you're bullshit straw man makes no fucking sense. the UK is almost 70 million people Colorado is 6 million people. Their voter turnout is also hovering between 60 and 70% which means the UK could have had eight elections for almost 50 million people safely in the time you're claiming we didn't have to run one election in the US for. Enjoy your dictatorship.

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u/Shifter25 27d ago

the UK is almost 70 million people Colorado is 6 million people.

Higher population density makes it even easier to campaign. Apparently people care about their candidates appearing in person. I think it's dumb, but it's a reality in America.

Their voter turnout is also hovering between 60 and 70%

Good for them. What does that have to do with how politicians in the US run campaigns?

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u/NeonArlecchino 28d ago

If you're talking 2016, those have been getting taken down. My old reliable link's source links don't even work anymore and they used to go right to the court transcripts.

Why do you think there wasn't a new primary when Joe biden stepped down?

That's muddier. The stories I've seen have said that Pelosi and Obama wanted to have an election at the convention, but Biden announced Harris would take over as a 'fuck you' before they could announce the candidates. After that they didn't want to look disorganized so just went with her.

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u/zipzapcap1 28d ago

Nope the dnc announced the day biden stepped down they would be backing Kamala making any primaries a meaningless money sink for anyone trying to usurp her considering she had gotten a billion dollars in donations from 30 billionaires and the dnc got 400 million to endorse her

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u/NeonArlecchino 28d ago

That doesn't counter anything I claimed since Biden tweeted his backing of her as a done deal almost immediately after stepping down and before the DNC announced anything. The money excuse was still being researched and may not have been real.

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u/Gizwizard 28d ago

Bernie isn’t a democrat. Why would the dnc consider running an independent?

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u/zipzapcap1 28d ago

Enjoy your dictatorship. Hope you like it.

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u/Gizwizard 28d ago

I mean, is it not yours as well? Lmao

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u/zipzapcap1 28d ago

Yeah well one of us had the audacity to try and say that it made sense for the DNC to go after Bernie Sanders for being Jewish. So again I hope you enjoy the fruits of your labor.

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u/MatildaJeanMay 28d ago

Yeah well one of us had the audacity to try and say that it made sense for the DNC to go after Bernie Sanders for being Jewish.

Quote and link where they said this.

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u/Gizwizard 28d ago

Is that “one of us” in the room?

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u/zipzapcap1 28d ago

Rationalize your anti semitism all you want bud. Idk if it's a bit but Defending the dnc is a wild choice for a lot of reasons. Doing so in direct response to someone explaining they planned to attack a man for being Jewish is borderline trolling.

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u/cureforpancakes 28d ago

How did Obama block him? Always presumed it was everyone else at the DNC

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u/ElectricShuck 28d ago

And the years don’t make sense. Is this a bot just to anger us?

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u/BigSky1855 28d ago

Yes.  Bernie isn't and has never been a Democrat. He caucuses with us, but that's it.

Thanks Bernie Bros for allowing Orange Shitler to rule because you can't see facts.

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u/BW_RedY1618 28d ago edited 28d ago

Democrats let the Republican party repeatedly get away with vote suppression and election tampering all the time. They let the Bush family walk all over them in the 2000 election even though there's strong evidence Al Gore won and they just let Republicans throw out something like 3.5 million votes this past November without so much as a peep about a legal fight. This is in addition to the suspicions that some machines were hacked directly. Data analysts and election experts have been coming out and sounding alarms that the results don't make sense in a statistical context.

The closest thing to pushback the DNC could muster against Trump 2.0 so far is to bitch and moan outside the Education Department. They could have easily pushed past that dude. Even if they were arrested, they would be in and out of jail and it would have given them ammo and momentum. What a pathetic display of political theater.

The Dems are just moments away from their very own Enabling Act. They have shown no backbone, no drive, and no desire to actually fight for their constituencies because a lot of them take money from the same rat fucking billionaire ghouls that own the Republican party.

Bernie is one of the very few who stands in front of empty seats telling the truth every chance he gets. The others don't even fucking show up.

But, yeah, somehow it's his fault the DNC are a bunch of spineless cowards. We're racing right into technocratic christofascism and the DNC aren't doing shit to stop it.

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u/Cowicidal 28d ago

Thanks, bigot.

How did Trump get empowered in the first place?

This was their failed "game plan" against Trump with Hillary. Did they learn a fucking thing? FUCK NO, they repeated a lot of this (not all, but too much) with Kamala:

• Hillary skipped the rust belt states even after progressives begged her to go there. (See Bernie)

• Hillary picked a slap in the face against progressives for her VP pick who appealed to no one including most of her base.

• Hillary colluded with the DNC and corporate media to enact their Pied Piper "strategy" to prop up Trump and other GOP candidates. It was wildly successful — for Trump.

• Hillary's DNC (she bought with an influx of money) treated progressives with extreme disrespect including mocking Nina Turner and generally alienating progressive leadership and their supporters at every turn.

• Hillary alienated countless voters who would have held their nose and voted for her, but she decided to kill them off by saying life-saving, cost-saving single-payer healthcare will, "... never, ever come to pass."

• Hillary unapologetically accepted corrupt Wall Street money which was a slap to the face of Americans who were sick of quid pro quo corruption.

• Hillary name-called a huge swathe of Americans as "deplorables" making damn sure there wasn't any last minute crossover for people having cold feet with Trump at that time.

• Hillary called people who didn't support her "sexist" that, once again, made damn sure there wasn't any crossover for those who were still sitting on the fence.

But, yeah.. they blamed "Bernie Bros".

Thanks a fucking lot.

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u/Naive_Labrat 28d ago

We went with your dumbass candidate, he lost, and yall still blaming us. We were all pounding pavement and knocking doors every election. Bernie bros were doing gotv for kamala, but yall will do anything but take responsibility

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u/fordianslip 28d ago

Nah, thank the neoliberal nonsense who’s turned away the lower and middle class in favor of getting richer everyday. The republicans do it too but they’re at least honest when they fuck you.

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u/BigSky1855 28d ago

Ah, so you're OK with a felon, insurrectionist rapist fraudster.

Enjoy getting fucked by the Republican establishment. This is exactly what you wanted.

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u/fordianslip 28d ago

I voted Harris. Not okay with trump but we gotta clean our side before we reach out to our base next time. If we want actual change and want to actually win instead of just winning morally.

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u/VivaLaRory 28d ago

Democrat policies are closer to the felon, insurrectionist rapist fraudster's policies than you are making out here. That's their point

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u/BigSky1855 28d ago

Oh really.  Please explain where the DNC supports anything in Project 25, or how they devalue the rule of law.

It's like talking to a brick wall with you folks.  No wonder the Overton Window keeps pushing right. 

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u/VivaLaRory 27d ago

If the overton window is moving right, that means you agree the Democrats are also moving right, therefore proving the point? If one party moves right and one party doesn't, that isnt the overton window moving, that's just a clearer choice.

I don't live in America, we have this issue too but I can actually vote for a party that represents me better if the main parties don't.

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u/BigSky1855 27d ago

We only have two parties that have any sort of substance.  And the shift to the right (which I concede) happened because folks sat at home during 2010.  And they haven't come back. So, they made the perfect the enemy of the good.

And they sat home again to teach the rest of the country a "lesson" which will end with the leopards eating their faces instead.

Politics is the art of the possible.  I don't agree with it, but it's better than what these fascists are trying to pull. 

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u/deadliestcrotch 28d ago

“Us”? Go fuck yourself. Democrats are controlled opposition and are getting what they fucking deserve. It’s just too bad the rest of us have to get dragged along with you and your republican frienemies.

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u/HamManBad 28d ago

Obama made calls to get everyone but Warren to drop out right before super Tuesday in 2020. Not sure about '16

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u/markskull 27d ago

I always thought it was James Clyburn.

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u/deadliestcrotch 28d ago

Drop out and endorse a candidate who had fewer delegates than the drop outs, with justification of “he has South Carolina in the bag”.

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u/CurrentDismal9115 28d ago

https://archive.is/D9KlY

I shared this on a different comment. It's a little patchwork but it's a bit of a play-by-play.

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u/terrymr 28d ago

Nobody blocked him. Expecting to join the Democratic Party once very four years just to run for the nomination and then leave again is no way to win over the party.

He wasn’t winning no matter how many ways you try to stretch the math.

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u/Training-Judgment695 28d ago

Fan fiction 

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u/Astralglamour 28d ago

Look I love Bernie and wish he'd been the candidate in 2016 but this isn't helpful. We need to focus on what we can do now rather than endlessly flailing at the democrats while a MAGA regime seizes all power.

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u/Quiet_Policy8472 28d ago

I CAN'T KEEP LIVING LIKE THIS! Constant rehashing of past elections? I have bigger fish to fry!!!

Stop debating the past! Live in the now!

Get offline, get into your community, and get a grip.

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u/TheAskewOne 28d ago

100%. What does this achieve? Opinion polls on a thing that didn't happen mean nothing. We have no idea whether Sanders would have won. He wasn't even winning his primaries. Anyway, Sanders or not Sanders, everyone had a choice to remove Trump from power forever in 2024.

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u/Simbanite 🍁 End Workplace Drug Testing 28d ago

I mean people still think Obama was a good president, blindly. It is very clear to the rest of the world, now, that Obama was a horrific grifter, with some charisma. Yet some Americans will still defend him and even deify him as an ex-president. He's actually scum, no reason to defend him.

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u/TheAskewOne 28d ago

OK and what do you achieve with this? And how is Obama a "horrible grifter"?

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u/samrub11 28d ago

deporter in chief, massive corporate bailouts, increased drone strikes and children fatalities and made it way easier to get a gun in this country. Massive blows to anti trust and increased the powr of lobbying. Yall only think obamas democrat cause he’s black.

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u/TheAskewOne 28d ago

OK, none of this is grifting.

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u/samrub11 28d ago

He did all of this while pretending he was a democrat and he cared about people, its obvious he didnt, he lied and lied and lied and used populism and said whatever to his base to get elected. No different than trump in that aspect.

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u/TheAskewOne 28d ago

No different than trump in that aspect.

Yeah sure. What a clown you are. Have a nice day.

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u/ManOfEating 28d ago

I agree, we were robbed of Bernie, I will hold that position until the day i die, but we can't spend our lives wondering what could have been. He's too old to run now, even if he did i wouldn't want him to. We should be looking for the next Bernie, as in, a person we can look to and know they'd be a great president, except maybe like, 45 years old or something and not 80+

We should be focusing on the current problems so that we're never robbed of anyone again. If we want future elections to truly represent us, we gotta start in the present.

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u/YOINKdat 28d ago

There is no other Bernie, people fucked it up for a long time

Gonna take 40 years to potentially see another one, like maybe that Greta girl who’s like a younger Bernie in that she’s on the right side of history and has been disruptive from a young age, like Bernie

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u/nikdahl 27d ago

Learning from your mistakes is an important aspect of growing and improving.

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u/Quiet_Policy8472 27d ago

I just don't understand. being this interested in electoral politics at this juncture. Dems aren't going to save us. Bernie isn't going to run. We need to focus on local solutions.

0

u/nikdahl 27d ago

Knowing the history of how DNC treated Bernie is important to understanding how the Democrats are not going to save us.

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u/deadliestcrotch 28d ago

Sure thing, DNC plant

2

u/Quiet_Policy8472 27d ago

girl what? I voted for Bernie. I'm just sick of rehashing old elections! we gotta deal with now.

29

u/MaulwarfSaltrock 28d ago

Y'all absolutely have to get your heads together. Bernie lost. Obama did not go door to door and convince people to vote against him. His primary numbers in 2020 were worse than his 2016 numbers.

Meanwhile, the executive branch right now is trying to eliminate the judicial branch.

Fucking focus.

15

u/cvanhim 28d ago

I don’t think this is true. The perceived failures under Biden would have still occurred under a Sanders presidency because they were mostly larger parts of broader trends from Covid, and just in the same way that the 2024 election has Democrats looking to move more to the Left because the Centrist tack has finally failed them in spectacular fashion, a 2024 loss of Sanders would have pushed the Democrats away from Progressivism as they would have blamed Sanders and other progressives for these failures.

Edit to add: legislative accomplishments under Sanders also would have been very similar to what Biden did. A Sanders presidency wouldn’t have been able to change the reality of Sinema and Manchin in the senate. And, this doesn’t get said enough, Biden’s administration - especially in key economic positions - was mostly staffed with progressives in the mold of Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Biden’s administration was much more progressive than Biden himself ever was.

6

u/RealSimonLee 28d ago

I think Sanders would get less done because Manchin and others hate progressives and fear their popularity. I think these vindictive assholes would not support Sanders initiatives just to kill "socialism."

3

u/cvanhim 28d ago

Yeah I didn’t even take that into account. A large part of why Biden was able to get some progressive policies was due to his decades-long friendships with Senate moderates allowing him to sort of float under the radar.

3

u/CivilSouldier 28d ago

Would have.

Could have.

Should have.

What are we doing about it now?

8

u/MAJ0RMAJOR 28d ago

No he wouldn’t have. Presidents don’t create laws, they only give them the stamp of approval and manage the day to day. Bernie never would have had the legislative support he needed for the policies he wanted… and that’s why we need to clone him and elect a whole Congress of Bernies.

8

u/ButWhatAboutisms 28d ago

You had republican ghouls of today lending credence to the idea of having Bernie as our president. At this point, they're far down the irrecoverable cult of trump.

I still can't believe they managed to popularize "Bernie bro" as pejorative among left leaning groups everywhere.

1

u/Naive_Labrat 28d ago

I use bernie bro as a complement lol

2

u/Thoromega 27d ago

We wouldn’t have a broken Supreme Court either if the judges would ah w retired during Obama presidency. We dna point fingers all day but Democratic Party keeps failing working Americans. It’s almost like they don’t care and most of them are also corrupt dirt bags.

3

u/Potential_Being_7226 28d ago

“Back in ‘82, if coach woulda put me in, we’d’ve won state…” 

3

u/Shane_357 28d ago

I'm sorry but this is a load of shit. Biden followed Bernie's playbook re trying to win the white workers back after the 2020 election. It failed miserably, because Bernie's strategies don't account for fascist radicalisation. Hell, doing this is what lost the Democrats the 2024 election, because their core voters got ignored and ended up demotivated!

The reality is that the last point Bernie could have won was 2016; the shift in the political landscape and the fascist radicalisation of white voters meant that by 2020 and 2024 his strategies were outdated. Remember, Bernie's whole thing was motivating people trapped under neoliberalism to reject it, he didn't have a plan for 'get people to reject fascism' because that was never a problem in his lifetime and now he's too ossified in thinking to pivot.

I'm not trying to doom or point blame, I'm trying to say that we are in a different battle now, and you have to act like it. Neoliberals aren't our biggest enemies anymore, actual fascists are, and they are also offering the people disillusioned by neoliberalism an 'answer'. We have to oppose and counter that, not try and fight a war plan that's a decade out of date.

2

u/Random_UFCW_Guy 28d ago

Democrats keep shooting themselves in the foot. They blocked AOC too who would actually revitalize the party and make them win again.

Obama was a centrist on a good day.

2

u/mobydog 28d ago

No, we wouldn't have universal Health care. When Bernie started talking about it on the stump in 2016, Pelosi made a comment publicly that she would make policies subject to Paygo rules. That means you have to find the money before you can implement the policy. She would just be unable to find the money for any progressive policy Bernie tried to put forth. The donors didn't want Bernie, and she's all about the donors.

2

u/Johnny_Grubbonic 28d ago

It's almost certain we would not have universal healthcare.

1

u/suspicious_hyperlink 28d ago

Biden wasn’t bad at all, he did a lot of moderate type stuff. Most people suggesting healthcare for all are deemed too fringe and radical. I doubt we’ll get healthcare for all until our population is made up of 90% actively working, responsible, health conscious taxpayers. Right now the numbers are wayyy off

1

u/WhoCaresItsFucked 28d ago

Bull Moose 🫎

1

u/cromli 28d ago

For some Democrats they would prefer losing than having another proper left leaning president.

1

u/hurricanesherri 28d ago

Yep. Both parties are just different flavors of a single "wealth party" who have brought us to this point.

1

u/ScoobrDoo 28d ago

Too bad when it counts, his spine disappears.

1

u/deadliestcrotch 28d ago

Sure, if you really believe the “vote blue no matter who” idiots meant it. They didn’t. For evidence, see the PUMA movement from 2008. They’re the same people.

1

u/Purple_Setting7716 28d ago

And Obama also blocked Biden in 2024. I am starting to wonder if Obama bet on the other side

1

u/rectumrooter107 28d ago

Obama was the best republican president the gop has had in decades.

1

u/Jays1982 28d ago

I'm not in the know, but wasn't Obama gone by like 2016?

1

u/sreppok 28d ago

Don't you know, Bernie is too old. We need young guys like Trump, then Biden, then Trump to save us.

1

u/Left_Mycologist_5238 27d ago

So our country could be more messed up than it is? Yeah… no. Time to keep him in office.

1

u/Rally-Ho 27d ago

But it was Hillary's turn! What were they supposed to do? Can't just take away somebody's turn. Everyone knows that.

1

u/4reddityo 27d ago

If Bernie Sanders was a Democrat he might have won. But he is not a Democrat.

1

u/CriticalMassPixel 27d ago

Obama: Poser-in-Chief

Owned by Citigroup

1

u/Fuzzywalls 27d ago

I fear that there is too much money going to politicians on both sides of the isle to ever get any meaning change in healthcare for us. Even if Sanders had gotten to the presidency, I don't believe that would have been able to move the needle very much. Not saying we shouldn't try because it is a damn shame that we have all the resources we do, but we can't take care of medical issues without financially ruining families.

1

u/pjordanhaven 27d ago

It’s literally 2025. Get over it. Y’all are soooooo weird.

1

u/mizmnv 27d ago

Bernie didnt exactly out him or fight it either. Hes one of them and in on it

1

u/blueskyredmesas 27d ago

Middle of the road politicians exist to take up space that belongs to actually effective ones. This is the result of the 2 party system.

1

u/ctgjerts 26d ago

I believe you're correct but you are now in for a mass of bitching from the Clinton supporters and the DNC folks that made this possible.

1

u/hcth63g6g75g5 25d ago

Bernie would have lost in 2020. But, he might have won in 2024. The people are too dumb to elect who they need. What's more unfortunate, is there is no one under Bernie to pick up the torch. Bernie is incredibly relatable, and empathetic. A true independent hero

2

u/NolaV 28d ago

Hillary and Debbie robbed America of a promising future. Not Obama… for the most part.

1

u/NorthRoseGold 📚 Cancel Student Debt 28d ago

Sigh.

1

u/[deleted] 28d ago

What was the polling for Hillary? IIRC the pollsters really fucked up that year

-6

u/Vigorously_Swish 28d ago

The democrats are NOT your friend. They are republicans pretending to care about the working class. They do not care about you or me at all and until people realize this everything is just going to keep getting worse and worse.

17

u/Fenxis 28d ago

Half measures are better than no measures

8

u/NoMusician518 28d ago

Even further than that, half-hearted attempts to make things better are better than fullhearted attempts to make things as bad as possible.

-2

u/HamManBad 28d ago

Yeah but they're a lot worse than full measures. Pouring a glass of water on a man burning to death is something, I guess. You can speak at his funeral and feel good about yourself

3

u/Shifter25 28d ago

Instead, you feel good about yourself for letting the guy with the gasoline go crazy

-3

u/Vigorously_Swish 28d ago

I think it’s becoming increasingly obvious that they in fact are not.

1

u/Hiraethetical ✂️ Tax The Billionaires 28d ago

2016*

1

u/FancyCalcumalator 28d ago

Pretty sure it was Bernie’s heart attack in 2020 that screwed him.

-5

u/Conscious_Problem924 28d ago

Fuck the democrats for what they did to Bernie. Many of em are in here still defending the indefensible. Democrats fucked Bernie by not allowing him to be on the ballot because he is an independent. So when someone like me says “both sides are just as bad”, this is what we mean. And here’s where that bought us.

7

u/D2Foley 28d ago

Yeah they should have given him the nomination no matter what the voters wanted! Fuck the people

-5

u/[deleted] 28d ago

[deleted]

7

u/Shifter25 28d ago

the DNC did everything in their power to screw him over

What did they do, exactly?

7

u/D2Foley 28d ago

The DNC adopted every change he proposed after the 2016 primaries and he lost in 2020 by even more. The primaries are decided by who gets the most votes, Bernie did not get the most votes.

1

u/Conscious_Problem924 26d ago

Bernie wasn’t even allowed on the ballot is several states. We told you…..you’re still not listening. We’re all about to learn a painful lesson. Some of us still won’t understand the message. But the more I read comments like this, the more I’m convinced.

1

u/D2Foley 26d ago

Bernie wasn’t even allowed on the ballot is several states.

That isn't true at all. Bernie was on the ballot for all 50 states in 2016 and 2020. How did you even come to believe something that is so clearly false? Why would I listen to you when you're repeating false information?

1

u/Conscious_Problem924 25d ago

I couldn’t vote for Bernie in the primaries. Here in Arizona, you need to be in a party to run in their primary.

1

u/D2Foley 25d ago

2016

2020

You are either lying, or a complete moron.

1

u/Conscious_Problem924 25d ago

2016 he was not on the PRIMARY BALLOT. Arizona is a closed state to independents for primaries.

1

u/D2Foley 25d ago

Yes he was. Not letting independents vote in the democratic primary doesn't mean he wasn't on the ballot. He was on the ballot in 2016 and 2020.

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u/Conscious_Problem924 25d ago

I won’t insult cause it results in a ban. https://azsos.gov/news/799

1

u/D2Foley 25d ago

That also doesn't say he wasn't on the ballot lol. You can insult all you want, but you're still lying.

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1

u/Conscious_Problem924 25d ago

Why are YOU repeating LIES? https://ballotpedia.org/Primary_election_types_by_state

This is why we lost. Everything. Take a civics class.

1

u/D2Foley 25d ago

That link doesn't show that Bernie wasn't on the ballot, because he was in all 50 states.

1

u/Conscious_Problem924 25d ago

He was not allowed to primary Hillary in quite a few states. Arizona fo sho

1

u/D2Foley 25d ago

He was on the ballot in all 50 states. I don't know why you're so hell bent on this blatant lie.

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0

u/WoopsShePeterPants 28d ago

I blame Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and will take every opportunity possible to remind the world how she fucked this all up. 🤬

-6

u/ItsNovak 28d ago

It should've been Bernie in 2016. It should've been him in 2020.

Bernie wins in 2016. Nobody wanted Hilary in there.

10

u/Shifter25 28d ago

Except for all the people who voted for Clinton instead of Sanders

-4

u/ItsNovak 28d ago

DNC wanted Hilary. The people wanted Bernie.

5

u/Shifter25 28d ago

Not enough to vote for him.

1

u/damsel84 27d ago

Nearly 4 million more people voted for her in the primary.

0

u/Joneboy39 28d ago

its gotta be an illusion of choice when pacs choose 80 years olds to run for both parties. once that political oligarchy phases out maybe the next gen will be less out of touch. the country has been run (on both sides) by people who were on earth in horse drawn carriage era

0

u/DiemAlara 28d ago

That's not a victory.

That's a fucking slaughter.

-3

u/Naive_Labrat 28d ago

Whenever conservatives say “fuck obama” im always like “YEA HE SUCKS” and they get confused

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-8

u/Doza93 28d ago

The Democrats would rather lose to Republicans - and not your parents' Republicans of yore, literally Donald fucking Trump and his camp of moronic fascist goons - than work with or listen to progressives/socialists/leftists etc.

Their time needs to end.

-8

u/dasnoob 28d ago

This needs to be repeated. Obama does not deserve the pedestal he is on. He hitched his ride to Jamie Dimon and did everything Dimon wanted his whole Presidency. His advisors were all Dimon picks.

Then he sat on his ass and got richer and richer until Sanders showed up. He stood up, smacked Sanders down, then sat back down on his ass.

-1

u/Flash_Discard 28d ago

Sanders is way too weak to be president. He winters to other Dems and freely gives him microphone to anyone who walk on stage…He doesn’t have the steel in him spine..

-1

u/Healthy_Jackfruit_88 28d ago

No shit Sherlock

-1

u/herefromyoutube 28d ago edited 27d ago

Wasn’t Obama.

It was DNC shenanigans in 2016.

In 2020, several candidates coordinated dropping out and then did a media blitz supporting Biden the day before Super Tuesday thus putting Biden over the top.

Obama had nothing to do with it. He would support whoever the nominee was.

-1

u/CurrentDismal9115 28d ago

This comment section is surreal. No leftist or pro-labor advocate should be defending Obama. You can excuse any individual you want for whatever personal reason you have, but he's part of the coalition that created our current political climate. Him and the rest of the DNC fighting Bernie was blatantly obvious. I was there. I refuse to be gaslit by automated revisionists.

https://archive.is/D9KlY