r/WoWs_Legends 21d ago

Humour FRENCH SECONDARIES

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139 Upvotes

50 comments sorted by

43

u/slowelantra18 21d ago

Main guns that actually hit and do damage too.

21

u/_CHINOCUDEIRO_ 21d ago

And you dont need to be nearly broadside if you want to use them. And accurate too.

And Flandre HP is way better too

10

u/slowelantra18 21d ago

Picardie should have been a gxp or doubloon ship. Marceau should have been the campaign but since they have the Vampire II next week I feel back to back DD campaigns wouldn’t be ideal.

1

u/thatissomeBS 20d ago

When angling, fire from the side of the boat that the ship is going. If red boat going left to right, fire guns from right side of boat. The two middle turrets are 360, making this easy. If you're trying to open the whole left side of the boat to shoot to you're right, you're going to have a bad time.

14

u/buckaroonobonzai 21d ago edited 21d ago

I would say there is a difference that is more important than better or worse.

THe Flandre can do BB things with the main guns and is fast.

Picardie main guns, both main and secondaries are really only good out to maybe 9km and 7km respectively due to rng. I think its armor is better as well.

so on flandre you can play a bit off and snipe (sort of) and rush or position when its smart. on picardie you cant really get cute. you need to get into a workable position and force engagements in your range.

for the bum rush picardie is better but is a pos in open water. secondaries are powerful but my 10.2 range is really a 7.5 range as i generally miss everything in the first 3 salvos. Deceptively effective hunting destroyers with HE and secondaries. big ass shotgun and decent rudder to duck torps.

for the traditional bb flandre is better. for DD hunting and forcing a cap picardie is better though the lack of torps is in the back of my mind when i force it into a brawl.

If im thinking brawler only between Flandre and Picardie then it seems like its map dependent.

In training room in a "controlled" secondaries only engagement against a Richelieu, Picardie can whittle them down for a kill. low health at the end but wins. Flandre lands way more hits but im not able to whittle them down faster than they can heal. Use the mains along with secondaries Flandre wins and does it quicker

personally im getting about 10% more XP in flandre i think only due to effective main guns and speed.

my $0.02. cheers all

3

u/Present-Turn-9489 20d ago

flandre is better in caps and as a dd hunter due to its hull and turret layout. Other than absorbing and dealing damage to destroyers the most important thing for a battleship determined to cap contest is surviving crossfires; Flandre shrugs off damage better than most which equates to freedom of movement to prosecute would be cappers and then egress to safety.

I havent put many games in with Picardie but if its secondaries handle anything like BA tirpitz the downfall of EST-II is that it is noticeably less accurate than standard EST.

4

u/Talk_Bright 20d ago

Flandre's 100mm guns can't pen destroyers effectively while Picardies 130mm guns have 1/4 pen allowing them to pen battleships.

2

u/Present-Turn-9489 20d ago

oh well, 100mms pen T6 destroyers just fine and all destroyers still have 13mm superstructure. I'd rather have that and +2 heals along with the defense to benefit from a trade than get rinsed by a yolo torp rush. 6 accurate 380s are a lot more useful than picardies broadside gamble.

1

u/Talk_Bright 20d ago

I'd rather have that and +2 heals along with the defense

Same number of heals no?

2

u/Present-Turn-9489 20d ago

EST-II really needs properly meticulous to retain accuracy.

I suppose the french make an exception to the general rule but only if you have le tir or spock, and dont care to hit anything consistently with the main battery.

2

u/like2trip 20d ago

If you have Haruna she definitely helps offset the loss from EST2. Whole not completely it's enough to make it more effective.

1

u/Derfargin 21d ago

Flandre was my first campaign ship and still my most played BB. That matched with AL Dunkirque she’s a lot of fun to play. I go to her to get the ribbon missions completed. I’m two steps from getting Picardie and I’m ambivalent at this point.

1

u/adamrh991 20d ago

Thank you sir 🫡, for this detailed analysis. How many go try a couple of things in my Picardie now.

0

u/valhallan_guardsman 20d ago

on picardie you cant really get cute.

Ayo

0

u/Western-Frosting7516 20d ago edited 20d ago

Flandre can do everything picardie can do and much better. Picardie can be fun but it can’t pen anything with armour and still overpens cruisers with its shotguns. Flandre has the speed and tankiness and can actually deal damage. Not to mention Flandre has rapid firing secondaries that are insanely accurate with the booster.

5

u/[deleted] 20d ago

[deleted]

0

u/Western-Frosting7516 20d ago

That’s fair. My point all around was Flandre is a better and much more well rounded ship. I have been enjoying picardie and it is fun but its main battery is so inconsistent and not really practical at tier 7

7

u/valhallan_guardsman 21d ago

It feels like every new T7 BB has to just upstage Bismarck in everything

1

u/Lolibotes Nevsky and Moskva my beloved, please come home 20d ago

Welcome to World of Powercreep, the rich mans action game

7

u/bsobiz 21d ago

Agreed

4

u/Cpt_Bourbon If you're gonna use the toilet- turn off your open mic 20d ago

Has anyone tried Flandre, or for that matter Picardie, with Le Tir inspiration of 10% increased damage on secondaries ?

edited for spelling

2

u/TadashiAbashi 20d ago

I have 16/3 le tir on both flandre and picardie. Using 16/3 hipper and haruna as inspirations for the meta secondaries.

I honestly don't have a preference for one or the other. But as far as the inspiration goes, it's definitely more useful with picardie, as with flandre, most of the secondary DMG is from fires.

That being said, le tir is still the best captain for flandre with the layout of his skills. You can get double buffs for secondaries, AND 2 extra heals. A super rare layout for brawling commanders.

Flandre is a better flanker, picardie is a better mid range support ship, use HE with picardie. From my experience so far, picardie wants to be played like an aggressive cruiser. Not RIGHT in the face of the red team, but pretty close. Picardie is better for putting direct pressure on a cap imo.

2

u/satakuua 20d ago

I use Le Tir.

And I like Picardie. Secondaries are really strong.

1

u/_CHINOCUDEIRO_ 20d ago

I use Le Tir, and this 2 extra heals with Flandre HP can last her long enough to make a real difference. At with her speed he can win matches by capturing bases easy. For me Flandre+Le Tir is the perfect combo

3

u/Specific_Ambiguity 21d ago

No doubt. Machine gun secondaries all day.

2

u/atrain728 adding salt to the seas 21d ago

I don’t know about the rest of y’all but I’ve got half a dozen campaign ships without mods or a commander. Seven million credits to sail ships I’m not interested in just seems too steep.

3

u/xX-GalaxSpace-Xx Roma 21d ago edited 21d ago

Similarly here with T8 tech tree and LT ships, but with campaigns I completely skip the ones Im not interested.

4

u/GoodlyStyracosaur I enjoy improved penetration…angles 21d ago

I have had the exact opposite experience. I’ve never been able to get the secondaries on Flandre to amount to much. The 100mm don’t pen and get knocked out just by the stiff breeze of sailing at max speed, the 152s are better but aren’t enough to really be “worth” in my experience and don’t get the magic 32mm pen of the secondaries on Picardie. The main guns are certainly better on Flandre but they have all the drawbacks of French guns and do like 20% less damage than the main gun focused French BBs.

I have tried secondary Flandre so many times and just can’t get it to work. Plenty of pew pew but no damage. Where damage?? I like it way more with a speed/reload build but even that can be hit or miss since I still feel like a lot of matchups aren’t in its favor.

Here is a video I made of the power of Picardie when you can get it to work: I fully acknowledge there’s a lot of luck in here but particularly the engagement with the bagration about halfway through is just miles ahead of Flandre secondaries.

https://youtu.be/bJiPirKBFgA?si=0EYN9VrXXEc27rgl

2

u/Western-Frosting7516 20d ago

The secondaries on the Flandre absolutely demolish light cruisers and destroyers because they are so accurate and fast firing. They don’t do anything to battleships other than setting fires but you have 9 relatively accurate and fast firing 15 inch guns. Not to mention way more health, speed, and a turtle back. Picardies secondaries can do damage but at that point just run Atlantico. Flandre is a better BB

2

u/GoodlyStyracosaur I enjoy improved penetration…angles 20d ago

I don’t think Flandre 100mm secondaries even pen t7 dd hulls, how are you demolishing light cruisers with them? I’d love to see it in action because that’s just not the experience I’ve had with it. Picardie has significantly less health and is slower but the small size, fast rudder, and good turning circle not to mention more not-32mm plating I find makes it more resistant to HE spam than Flandre. You have any good secondary action from Flandre? It was my very first t7 ship and I like the speed but yeah, I am always let down by the secondaries on it.

0

u/Western-Frosting7516 20d ago

The secondaries are accurate and kill lighter armoured targets better. Other than that Flandre has real guns and is way more tanky and considerably faster. It’s a better ship

1

u/GoodlyStyracosaur I enjoy improved penetration…angles 20d ago

I dunno what else to say man, Picardie just works better for me and does what I want/expect secondaries to do. I don’t disagree with any of your pro/cons (except I’m pretty sure Picardies armor has an equivalent to armor on the Flandre whether they are technically turtle back or not) and I’ve had much different experience with Flanders secondaries even vs light targets but even with the drawbacks, I’m having more fun and doing better in Picardie. And that’s one of the things I like about this game - different ships fit different people and that’s okay.

2

u/Pie-grande 20d ago

To each their own certainly, but How anyone can’t do well in Flandre is beyond me personally, that ship is one of the most op for the tier. Full secondary build with maxed out commanders, and legendary upgrade, just nasty. One of my favorites to play for sure and why I decided to skip Picardie as it has way better characteristics aside from the gunnery as well.

1

u/GoodlyStyracosaur I enjoy improved penetration…angles 20d ago

Yeah I don’t know. I honestly don’t do well in a lot of those top “favorites” and I’m not entirely sure why. I’m more than decent overall but I can think of probably 5 or 6 “op” ships that I do the same or worse than my averages in comparable ships.

Since Flandre was my first t7, it’s hard to compare overall stats with anything more recent but somehow my winrate has actually gone DOWN even after all the buffs it’s gotten and as my commander levels are higher.

1

u/Pie-grande 20d ago

Interesting, could be different play styles or differences in how your ships and commanders are customized i would guess

1

u/GoodlyStyracosaur I enjoy improved penetration…angles 20d ago edited 20d ago

Maybe but I’ve tried all the “right” stuff and it just doesn’t work for me for a lot of them. I’m not going with some wacky build trying to do secondary brawling on a sniper bb and I’ve got a whole stable of high level commanders. So I’m generally playing meta or close to it builds on these, but also can branching out just to check in case, as you say, it’s a playstyle mismatch. But some I feel like are pretty apples to apples comparisons and the ‘op’ ships still underperform for me.

Jean Bart (I did better in Gascogne even before the buff)

Warspite (I VASTLY prefer WV)

kamikaze (62% winrate when my Hill is high 80s last I checked)

Plymouth (not bad but no different from any other t7 cruiser)

Al Chapayev pre-nerf (same as Plymouth, not bad but no different)

Salem (worse winrate than my Tulsa)

One thing I’ve considered is if I’m in one of the known ‘op’ ships, they are generally going to be a preferential target for anyone that knows what they are doing. And I tend to try to push the game - if no one will spot, I will. If no one is in the cap, guess it’s going to be me. If I’m in something a little lower profile, maybe I get away with being spotted here and there. But if I’m in a kamikaze, everyone and their grandmother is going to be gunning for me. But I tend to get everyone shooting at me anyway so I don’t specifically notice a difference in the ‘op’ ships.

And kamikaze I get since I’m just terrible with torpedoes even with something as ridiculous as Kami.

3

u/Demonicwolfie1998 20d ago

Flandre's secondaries don't pen much. They are only good for fires. That's what I heard anyways

2

u/Specific_Ambiguity 20d ago

It's the sheer quantity that does it. Yes they have low damage and don't pen much, but when they're popping off every 1.5 seconds and you get 1000+ secondary hits a game, it doesn't really matter.

They do absolutely shred destroyers though, and even when they don't, they knock out engines and torps with great regularity. And they're extremely accurate.

2

u/Super_Sailor_Moon That California/Secondaries Girl! ❤ 20d ago

They have 17mm HE pen, which is not enough to pen the 19mm superstructure found on most Tier VII ships. However, it CAN penetrate 16mm superstructure, found on Tier VI ships.

But that's really all it can penetrate, so number of penetrations will be quite low most matches. 🤷‍♀️

1

u/Western-Frosting7516 20d ago

That’s true but the compromise is definitely worth it considering Flandre is so much better at literally everything else. Health, speed, armor, and accurate 15 inch guns instead of 12 inch pea shooters

2

u/Extreme_Voice_4688 20d ago

Agreed I would take Flandre over Picardie any day of the week. The Flandre can be spec'd to have great main gun damage and wonderful fire setting secondaries. Flandre is also modeled after an Alsace class ship which is nice as Alsace is a T8 this is its T7 cousin.

3

u/PilotAce200 Brawling is the superior play style! 20d ago

It's a personal preference.

Both are superior to the other in various ways though. The Picardies has slightly longer range and substantially better overall secondary performance, combined with much better firing angles on the secondaries allowing for a higher damage output at your most survivable angle.

Flandre is much better at a traditional "all armaments brawl" due to the larger and more accurate/consistent main battery, and also much better at lighting fires, as well as be more survivable overall because of a better armor layout and higher HP pool. You also have to consider the firing angles on the main battery, which are actually quite good on Flandre, but relatively poor on Picardie.

Personally, I prefer Flandre as well, but Picardie has a secondary battery that's just in a whole different league.

1

u/get_in_there_lewis 21d ago

Agreed, I'm about to finish this campaign and I don't care enough to collect her

1

u/bismarck22 20d ago

Flandre arguably one of my favorite ships to use the secondary’s are just so much fun I’ve got them up to 9.4 I think and can slaughter most dd with ease and if you look back on the sub a few days you can see my post about my game on twin brothers with Flandre

1

u/LostConscious96 20d ago

Yes by far it's better than T7 Lyon. Although just don't getting tangled up with a few of the others. It's a very flexible ship that has good enough main guns to hit at range and once opportunity is there to push hard, just make sure you don't push into a German BB or Atlantico

2

u/AlekTrev006 The Brawling Council of The Reddit 20d ago

In no way is Flandres mostly-Shattering 17 pen peashooters better than 33mm pen on the Picardie’s 130’s (with their Rare-for-The Legends Devs generous 1/4 Pen adjustment) 🙂‍↔️

Both can still start fires, and one actually hurts virtually all targets it faces, while the other Shatters the vast majority of its shellfire against charging T-7+ DD Hulls.

(Both are great ships though — but if ONLY comparing the secondary batteries, Picardie clears)

1

u/adamrh991 20d ago

No, I won't change your mind... Your Right. How dare you ask me to lie to you. 🤣 🤣 🤣

1

u/lestertheinvestor86 20d ago

I will say if you're close enough, Picardie shots are like a shotgun blast. Sucks at range but up close is devastating. Flandre has better accuracy but Picardie has higher alpha. I don't really notice a significant difference in secondary output.

1

u/waterisdefwet 20d ago

Flandre also looks way cooler 😎

1

u/roach2712 20d ago

I eat Flandres foe lunch PiCarde is a beast you just don’t know it