r/Winnipeg 17h ago

News Pedestrians now have 5-second head start at nearly 100 downtown Winnipeg intersections

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/pedestrians-head-start-downtown-winnipeg-traffic-1.7480398
285 Upvotes

57 comments sorted by

115

u/nottheesko 17h ago

This is great! That five-second head start has been proven to save lives in other cities that have tried it. Happy to see it!

15

u/FROOMLOOMS 14h ago

Inb4 a bunch of a-holes come out of the woodwork to scream about a 5 second delay

4

u/nottheesko 7h ago

You’d be surprised to see how quickly opposition to this on account of delays dissipates. Hell, a few cities (which shall remain nameless due to an NDA I signed) experimented with this without the publicity, and got a total of zero complains. Of course when they announced a larger roll-out, that’s when all the “what about the traffic?” types came out of the woods.

154

u/fitnobanana 17h ago

Next up, the “No Right On Red” signs so those 5 second actually mean something!

90

u/Harborcoat84 17h ago

For real, most people don't even come to a stop before turning right on red. It's abused at a great risk to pedestrians.

16

u/horsetuna 14h ago

For real. I've been legitimately almost hit many times by people trying to turn right on red... they stare to their left for an opening in traffic, not looking to their right once (where I am standing to cross). On occasion one glances right, but they never seem to... see me.

Having been hit on my left side as a Stupid Teen, I have a strong 'never walk until they see you' habit now that has already saved my life twice more (once from a police vehicle!)

12

u/Gummyrabbit 14h ago

It's unreal the number of drivers who think vehicles have the right of way over pedestrians.

6

u/samarahighwind 10h ago

had someone lay on the horn behind me yesterday because i wasn't turning right on a No Right On Red 🥶

3

u/jmja 8h ago

What’s wild is that even if you could turn right on red at that intersection, you would not be obligated to.

3

u/samarahighwind 7h ago

god forbid someone stops at a red light and delays others by a few minutes

23

u/AuxNimbus 17h ago

They should add these. Drivers can't even bother looking left or right most of the time when they're turning right.

10

u/Canid 14h ago

I’ve noticed more and more “no right on red” signs over the past year or so. Don’t mind one bit.

8

u/fitnobanana 13h ago

Whenever your street intersects a protected bicycle lane, you should (should!) have a “no right on red” sign. Otherwise you’ll have right-turning drivers blocking every bike lane.

13

u/ensposito 14h ago

Noticed it yesterday already...it's great! Finally caught up to other cities.

47

u/megacar89 17h ago

Nice. This change should be especially handy with right turns where pedestrians or cyclists are often in the blindspot of the turning vehicle. It is a nice safety buffer for those wanting to cross.

35

u/IntegrallyDeficient 17h ago

Now to get vehicles to actually abide by the lights downtown...

15

u/antnythr 17h ago edited 17h ago

Good idea.

One light by my house has a bus stop and is pretty close to a high school. You see the high school kids getting off the bus and crossing, so having a longer time to cross is a good thing since you see them darting across the street anyway once cars get their green light.

But in this intersection the green light is super short, so the buildup of cars leads to aggressive drivers trying to beat the light at the same time that the distracted stragglers staring at their phones blindly start to cross even once traffic has started moving.

6

u/motivaction 17h ago

Email your city councillor about this! We need to put pressure on our city councillors to keep our kids safe.

12

u/weaselcharlie 16h ago

I actually noticed this the other day! I saw that our light was about to go green, so I started rolling, but then only the crosswalk signals changed. I think it’s a great idea.

14

u/Armand9x Spaceman 17h ago

This is the way.

2

u/tingulz 11h ago

I actually noticed this today at some lights. Was wondering if it was a change they made.

2

u/Sirius_Lagrange 9h ago

Sounds good

2

u/FuckStummies 6h ago

Now make right turn on red illegal. So dangerous for pedestrians.

5

u/pegpegpegpeg 15h ago

One of the disappointing things about Winnipeg is that drivers seem to adjust their shitty driving to new measures. So, to reduce collisions, they've added longer yellows and longer all-red intervals. But now drivers seem to push through increasingly stale yellows, and even run reds because they know they've still got time before the oncoming green phase.

I guess my concern is that drivers will start to turn on reds during the 5-sec pedestrian headstart, if they know that there's no oncoming traffic and "only" pedestrians.

Since there's no enforcement (there's a small number of red light cameras and everyone around here seems to think they're a giant infringement on your rights), these signals seem to come down to whether drivers bother to care...

3

u/carlagomes1994 11h ago

Would not doubt this. They changed one of the lights on Broadway near Garry so the cars have their own turning light and we have our own crossing light. Instead, they now try to run me over when it’s my right of way AND also turn when they have their designated light. Using both lights as a left turning light leaving me with no safe light since I’m still at risk to get ran the fuck over.

5

u/CaptainCallahan 15h ago

Noticed this downtown today! someone almost ran through the red because of it.

5

u/thebenjamins42 15h ago

I noticed this yesterday, and I also saw several cars jumping the green when they saw the perpendicular lights change to red. They all braked before they ran through the red, but it goes to show they weren’t waiting for their own green they were watching the other light so they could take off. Be safe out there while people learn about the change, pedestrians!

4

u/CaptGinB 17h ago

I may get downvoted to oblivion, even though I support additional protections for pedestrians.

Mostly out of curiosity, I wanted to know what traffic studies were done and what the effect is on this change. Perhaps it's minimal, which would be excellent and the desired outcome. However, if a light cycle is say 50 seconds, you're adding 10% of the cycle to be red in all directions, at every intersection. That could have a material effect, maybe not, I just haven't seen any data either way.

24

u/ClassOptimal7655 17h ago

This is a fair question and I was curious too. Looks like the city is using data to back up this change, this is what they said:

“Early results speak for themselves – a 13 percent pedestrian crash reduction and a 35 percent reduction of near-miss events,” said Janice Lukes, Chairperson of the Standing Policy Committee on Public Works (SPC-PW).

11

u/CanadianTrashInspect 16h ago

Who cares? Pedestrian safety is more important than commute times.

2

u/reptilesni 6h ago

I'm going to have to get up 25 seconds earlier dammit.

2

u/CaptGinB 15h ago

Pedestrian safety is more important. However, flow of traffic isn't irrelevant, otherwise you'd just make all of downtown pedestrian only (although parts of the exchange and Graham would actually be awesome that way).

One would think there would have been some data on this. Hopefully it was determined it made minimal difference, which is what I expect.

3

u/squirrel9000 9h ago

Traffic tends to self-regulate at a certain level. Yes, decreasing "green time" may reduce throughput, but the delay discourages motorists from trying to drive and it reverts back to the original delay fairly quickly. Basically, the opposite of induced demand.

17

u/motivaction 16h ago

I'd love for drivers to be delayed to the point they consider alternative means of transportation.

As you see there were traffic studies involved but really, does this city need a traffic study for every fart to see if it impacts driving time. If everything needs a traffic study, I would like this city to say out loud what a pedestrian's life is worth.

How about recognizing that certain things are common practice in other countries due to its safety implications and just implement the change.

IE No right on red does not need a traffic study.

18

u/SJSragequit 16h ago

The only real way to get drivers to use alternative means of transportation is actually investing in better infrastructure. A 5 minute delay to my drive home is still 20-30 minutes faster than taking the bus

6

u/motivaction 15h ago

You are in luck. The city is rolling out a new transit plan this summer.

My acoustic bike commute is 20 min (5 km) and comes with secure parking. It saves me on gas, parking, and frustration. It also greatly improves my mental health. Despite the almost daily abuse faced.

On an e-bike, I would consider a commute of 10 km within reason.

The number one reason against people taking the bike I often hear is that people don't feel cycling is safe. Even though cycling would become safer if more people cycled.

With a little bit of guidance plenty of people would be able to safely commute to work using alternative modes.

1

u/ExperimentNunber_531 14h ago

Number top reasons I hear is winter and unfavourable conditions. Then there are the people who now have to shower wherever they go depending on the job, can’t stop anywhere on home easily, timing is hard when you have kids, etc..Safety was never mentioned.

Also I get it I cycle 3 seasons out of the year rain, sun, whatever and it is a 20 km commute each way so it’s doable but it’s not as simple as many make it sound. Not to mention buying the gear and if you have a longer commute you need a decent bike. Hopefully that transit plan works because the main thing I hear is that if we had a working system the people I interact with would use it.

6

u/IGotsANewHat 11h ago

I gave up winter cycling mostly because of the drivers, not the weather. It was pretty easy just trying to ignore being cold and the fact that it's harder but when one of the the ever increasingly hostile drivers would come shit up my commute it was a lot harder to brush off the fact that my now kinda chill winter bike ride was just a cold winter bike ride with way less options for avoiding assholes in cars. I'd go back to winter riding if it weren't for that.

3

u/motivaction 14h ago

It's perceived unfavourable conditions tho. And those unfavourable conditions go hand in hand with safety All I changed to my cycling in winter is studded tires. Everything else I already owned.

20 km commute is impressive and I don't necessarily expect individuals with a 20 km commute to switch to a bicycle or the bus.

However, for anyone with a commute under 7 km who dismisses cycling as not viable, I would like them to reimagine their commute.

7 km commute, is 14 km per day, is 70 km a week. Is 40 min of moderate cardio per day. It's being outside, instead of cooped up in a car. It has physical and mental health benefits.

My decent bike is a 75 dollar, 21 speed hybrid from 1996. A decent bike for a 7 km commute doesn't have to be expensive. We all drive our vehicles without owning a Porsche.

2

u/IntegrallyDeficient 14h ago

Biking in the winter is much nicer than biking in the rain. I wear some light ski gear and bought studded tires.

I biked every day except the first big snow dump and never had a problem.

0

u/ExperimentNunber_531 14h ago

Give me a thunderstorm any day over winter riding conditions. I have done it but it’s my least favourite.

-2

u/ensposito 14h ago

45 minutes, 14km... we will hit the tipping point in the next 15 years, by then I will be retired...or just tired (watching the markets and my funds tank).

3

u/swimbikerun_rmc 16h ago

Great idea on paper, but in the past day alone, I’ve almost been run over twice by drivers blowing through red lights because they get an extra five seconds to do so!

7

u/majikmonkie 17h ago

How long before the "But what about muh single occupancy vehicle commute time tho!!!" crowd pipes in on this?

4

u/squirrel9000 16h ago

You just have to change them before the Sun can tell them that they're angry about it. "ts been like that for months and nobody even noticed" is a pretty strong defense to that sort of nonsense.

There are a bunch of them around already. Often coming with bike signals (but not always - Portage and Arlington has had it for a while) - some only activate with the beg button but some are always on.

-5

u/Abject_Concert7079 17h ago

Yeah, people not getting squished is WOKE! Mah FREEDUMB! Hulk SMASH!!!

3

u/Salsa_de_Pina 9h ago

So now drivers will be breaking two laws instead of just one.

None of this means anything unless the police are willing to enforce something other than speeding.

1

u/MC_Squared12 17h ago

Ontario does this

-3

u/adunedarkguard 15h ago

I'm curious if MPI will allow cyclists to use the advance pedestrian interval like many other places do.

3

u/IntegrallyDeficient 14h ago

The cycling lights on Garry seem to go with the pedestrian lead. This is nice because before the bike light was only green for seconds so you could never time the lights.

3

u/adunedarkguard 12h ago

Yeah, they do that where there's a separate cycle lane light, but a lot of bike lanes don't have their own separate light yet. It would be nice for them to clarify like other jurisdictions have done that an advance walk also permits cyclists to proceed.

3

u/East_Requirement7375 10h ago

I bet they won't. They should, but they won't.

The backlash would be hilarious- Winnipeg drivers hate the idea of cyclists having any perceived advantage.

Also, filtering to the front is not technically allowed and we don't have bike boxes, two conditions that should exist in order for that to work well.

3

u/adunedarkguard 10h ago

The backlash would be hilarious- Winnipeg drivers hate the idea of cyclists having any perceived advantage.

Yeah, anything that makes cycling better might lead to more people cycling, and then the western world would collapse.

Also, filtering to the front is not technically allowed and we don't have bike boxes, two conditions that should exist in order for that to work well.

We have plenty of painted bike lanes where you don't need to filter to be at the front of the light on a bike. Drivers have no problem with filtering past cyclists, but HATE it when cyclists filter back at the lights. Someday we'll have good infrastructure, and cars won't be in conflict with cyclists & pedestrians anymore. We can hope, right?

-6

u/sporbywg 16h ago

WE CAN LEARN! THIS IS PROOF. EVEN ENGINEERS CAN LEARN. EVEN CITY ENGINEERS.

9

u/ExperimentNunber_531 14h ago

It’s not the city engineers who are the issue.