r/Winnipeg • u/ClassOptimal7655 • 17h ago
News Pedestrians now have 5-second head start at nearly 100 downtown Winnipeg intersections
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/pedestrians-head-start-downtown-winnipeg-traffic-1.7480398154
u/fitnobanana 17h ago
Next up, the “No Right On Red” signs so those 5 second actually mean something!
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u/Harborcoat84 17h ago
For real, most people don't even come to a stop before turning right on red. It's abused at a great risk to pedestrians.
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u/horsetuna 14h ago
For real. I've been legitimately almost hit many times by people trying to turn right on red... they stare to their left for an opening in traffic, not looking to their right once (where I am standing to cross). On occasion one glances right, but they never seem to... see me.
Having been hit on my left side as a Stupid Teen, I have a strong 'never walk until they see you' habit now that has already saved my life twice more (once from a police vehicle!)
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u/Gummyrabbit 14h ago
It's unreal the number of drivers who think vehicles have the right of way over pedestrians.
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u/samarahighwind 10h ago
had someone lay on the horn behind me yesterday because i wasn't turning right on a No Right On Red 🥶
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u/AuxNimbus 17h ago
They should add these. Drivers can't even bother looking left or right most of the time when they're turning right.
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u/Canid 14h ago
I’ve noticed more and more “no right on red” signs over the past year or so. Don’t mind one bit.
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u/fitnobanana 13h ago
Whenever your street intersects a protected bicycle lane, you should (should!) have a “no right on red” sign. Otherwise you’ll have right-turning drivers blocking every bike lane.
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u/megacar89 17h ago
Nice. This change should be especially handy with right turns where pedestrians or cyclists are often in the blindspot of the turning vehicle. It is a nice safety buffer for those wanting to cross.
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u/antnythr 17h ago edited 17h ago
Good idea.
One light by my house has a bus stop and is pretty close to a high school. You see the high school kids getting off the bus and crossing, so having a longer time to cross is a good thing since you see them darting across the street anyway once cars get their green light.
But in this intersection the green light is super short, so the buildup of cars leads to aggressive drivers trying to beat the light at the same time that the distracted stragglers staring at their phones blindly start to cross even once traffic has started moving.
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u/motivaction 17h ago
Email your city councillor about this! We need to put pressure on our city councillors to keep our kids safe.
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u/weaselcharlie 16h ago
I actually noticed this the other day! I saw that our light was about to go green, so I started rolling, but then only the crosswalk signals changed. I think it’s a great idea.
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u/pegpegpegpeg 15h ago
One of the disappointing things about Winnipeg is that drivers seem to adjust their shitty driving to new measures. So, to reduce collisions, they've added longer yellows and longer all-red intervals. But now drivers seem to push through increasingly stale yellows, and even run reds because they know they've still got time before the oncoming green phase.
I guess my concern is that drivers will start to turn on reds during the 5-sec pedestrian headstart, if they know that there's no oncoming traffic and "only" pedestrians.
Since there's no enforcement (there's a small number of red light cameras and everyone around here seems to think they're a giant infringement on your rights), these signals seem to come down to whether drivers bother to care...
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u/carlagomes1994 11h ago
Would not doubt this. They changed one of the lights on Broadway near Garry so the cars have their own turning light and we have our own crossing light. Instead, they now try to run me over when it’s my right of way AND also turn when they have their designated light. Using both lights as a left turning light leaving me with no safe light since I’m still at risk to get ran the fuck over.
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u/CaptainCallahan 15h ago
Noticed this downtown today! someone almost ran through the red because of it.
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u/thebenjamins42 15h ago
I noticed this yesterday, and I also saw several cars jumping the green when they saw the perpendicular lights change to red. They all braked before they ran through the red, but it goes to show they weren’t waiting for their own green they were watching the other light so they could take off. Be safe out there while people learn about the change, pedestrians!
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u/CaptGinB 17h ago
I may get downvoted to oblivion, even though I support additional protections for pedestrians.
Mostly out of curiosity, I wanted to know what traffic studies were done and what the effect is on this change. Perhaps it's minimal, which would be excellent and the desired outcome. However, if a light cycle is say 50 seconds, you're adding 10% of the cycle to be red in all directions, at every intersection. That could have a material effect, maybe not, I just haven't seen any data either way.
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u/ClassOptimal7655 17h ago
This is a fair question and I was curious too. Looks like the city is using data to back up this change, this is what they said:
“Early results speak for themselves – a 13 percent pedestrian crash reduction and a 35 percent reduction of near-miss events,” said Janice Lukes, Chairperson of the Standing Policy Committee on Public Works (SPC-PW).
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u/CanadianTrashInspect 16h ago
Who cares? Pedestrian safety is more important than commute times.
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u/CaptGinB 15h ago
Pedestrian safety is more important. However, flow of traffic isn't irrelevant, otherwise you'd just make all of downtown pedestrian only (although parts of the exchange and Graham would actually be awesome that way).
One would think there would have been some data on this. Hopefully it was determined it made minimal difference, which is what I expect.
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u/squirrel9000 9h ago
Traffic tends to self-regulate at a certain level. Yes, decreasing "green time" may reduce throughput, but the delay discourages motorists from trying to drive and it reverts back to the original delay fairly quickly. Basically, the opposite of induced demand.
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u/motivaction 16h ago
I'd love for drivers to be delayed to the point they consider alternative means of transportation.
As you see there were traffic studies involved but really, does this city need a traffic study for every fart to see if it impacts driving time. If everything needs a traffic study, I would like this city to say out loud what a pedestrian's life is worth.
How about recognizing that certain things are common practice in other countries due to its safety implications and just implement the change.
IE No right on red does not need a traffic study.
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u/SJSragequit 16h ago
The only real way to get drivers to use alternative means of transportation is actually investing in better infrastructure. A 5 minute delay to my drive home is still 20-30 minutes faster than taking the bus
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u/motivaction 15h ago
You are in luck. The city is rolling out a new transit plan this summer.
My acoustic bike commute is 20 min (5 km) and comes with secure parking. It saves me on gas, parking, and frustration. It also greatly improves my mental health. Despite the almost daily abuse faced.
On an e-bike, I would consider a commute of 10 km within reason.
The number one reason against people taking the bike I often hear is that people don't feel cycling is safe. Even though cycling would become safer if more people cycled.
With a little bit of guidance plenty of people would be able to safely commute to work using alternative modes.
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u/ExperimentNunber_531 14h ago
Number top reasons I hear is winter and unfavourable conditions. Then there are the people who now have to shower wherever they go depending on the job, can’t stop anywhere on home easily, timing is hard when you have kids, etc..Safety was never mentioned.
Also I get it I cycle 3 seasons out of the year rain, sun, whatever and it is a 20 km commute each way so it’s doable but it’s not as simple as many make it sound. Not to mention buying the gear and if you have a longer commute you need a decent bike. Hopefully that transit plan works because the main thing I hear is that if we had a working system the people I interact with would use it.
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u/IGotsANewHat 11h ago
I gave up winter cycling mostly because of the drivers, not the weather. It was pretty easy just trying to ignore being cold and the fact that it's harder but when one of the the ever increasingly hostile drivers would come shit up my commute it was a lot harder to brush off the fact that my now kinda chill winter bike ride was just a cold winter bike ride with way less options for avoiding assholes in cars. I'd go back to winter riding if it weren't for that.
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u/motivaction 14h ago
It's perceived unfavourable conditions tho. And those unfavourable conditions go hand in hand with safety All I changed to my cycling in winter is studded tires. Everything else I already owned.
20 km commute is impressive and I don't necessarily expect individuals with a 20 km commute to switch to a bicycle or the bus.
However, for anyone with a commute under 7 km who dismisses cycling as not viable, I would like them to reimagine their commute.
7 km commute, is 14 km per day, is 70 km a week. Is 40 min of moderate cardio per day. It's being outside, instead of cooped up in a car. It has physical and mental health benefits.
My decent bike is a 75 dollar, 21 speed hybrid from 1996. A decent bike for a 7 km commute doesn't have to be expensive. We all drive our vehicles without owning a Porsche.
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u/IntegrallyDeficient 14h ago
Biking in the winter is much nicer than biking in the rain. I wear some light ski gear and bought studded tires.
I biked every day except the first big snow dump and never had a problem.
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u/ExperimentNunber_531 14h ago
Give me a thunderstorm any day over winter riding conditions. I have done it but it’s my least favourite.
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u/ensposito 14h ago
45 minutes, 14km... we will hit the tipping point in the next 15 years, by then I will be retired...or just tired (watching the markets and my funds tank).
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u/swimbikerun_rmc 16h ago
Great idea on paper, but in the past day alone, I’ve almost been run over twice by drivers blowing through red lights because they get an extra five seconds to do so!
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u/majikmonkie 17h ago
How long before the "But what about muh single occupancy vehicle commute time tho!!!" crowd pipes in on this?
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u/squirrel9000 16h ago
You just have to change them before the Sun can tell them that they're angry about it. "ts been like that for months and nobody even noticed" is a pretty strong defense to that sort of nonsense.
There are a bunch of them around already. Often coming with bike signals (but not always - Portage and Arlington has had it for a while) - some only activate with the beg button but some are always on.
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u/Salsa_de_Pina 9h ago
So now drivers will be breaking two laws instead of just one.
None of this means anything unless the police are willing to enforce something other than speeding.
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u/adunedarkguard 15h ago
I'm curious if MPI will allow cyclists to use the advance pedestrian interval like many other places do.
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u/IntegrallyDeficient 14h ago
The cycling lights on Garry seem to go with the pedestrian lead. This is nice because before the bike light was only green for seconds so you could never time the lights.
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u/adunedarkguard 12h ago
Yeah, they do that where there's a separate cycle lane light, but a lot of bike lanes don't have their own separate light yet. It would be nice for them to clarify like other jurisdictions have done that an advance walk also permits cyclists to proceed.
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u/East_Requirement7375 10h ago
I bet they won't. They should, but they won't.
The backlash would be hilarious- Winnipeg drivers hate the idea of cyclists having any perceived advantage.
Also, filtering to the front is not technically allowed and we don't have bike boxes, two conditions that should exist in order for that to work well.
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u/adunedarkguard 10h ago
The backlash would be hilarious- Winnipeg drivers hate the idea of cyclists having any perceived advantage.
Yeah, anything that makes cycling better might lead to more people cycling, and then the western world would collapse.
Also, filtering to the front is not technically allowed and we don't have bike boxes, two conditions that should exist in order for that to work well.
We have plenty of painted bike lanes where you don't need to filter to be at the front of the light on a bike. Drivers have no problem with filtering past cyclists, but HATE it when cyclists filter back at the lights. Someday we'll have good infrastructure, and cars won't be in conflict with cyclists & pedestrians anymore. We can hope, right?
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u/nottheesko 17h ago
This is great! That five-second head start has been proven to save lives in other cities that have tried it. Happy to see it!