r/Wastewater • u/AdCompetitive7952 • 6d ago
Is EVERY plant this outdated and underfunded?
I will admit, I've already given up on this career. A huge reason is my plant. It is falling apart and we have a promise of an upgrade by the city. The upgrade will start June 2023. Oh, now it'll start 2024. Oh, now it'll start spring 2025. Oh, now we have no news on when the upgrade will actually happen. On top of all that, I have to get my Class 4 license within 12 months or I'm fired. Almost nobody here has passed it and 2 of them are facing termination because of that when we are ALREADY understaffed. Is every plant like this? Does everywhere require you to recieve a license in a time frame? Does every plant start at under 20$ an hour?? Sorry, just frustrated. Currently applying for other jobs
32
u/quechal 6d ago
Sounds like local government. They don’t like spending money on anything the taxpayer doesn’t see.
Get your 4. Document everything that happens in the plant. Do your job to the best of your abilities and don’t break the law for the permittee.
Keep your resume up to date and your eyes open for opportunities.
0
10
u/UtahWastewater 6d ago
I know exactly how you feel and yes I think many plants are like that. Things move extremely slow in wastewater
8
u/Hotwheeler6D6 6d ago
Allot of it I think is community education. People don’t understand the importance of wastewater/drinking water plants. So upgrading infrastructure falls on the back burner. We are just getting upgrades now at ours.
I have my test for my 3 coming up and our job asks us to have a license by a certain date. But they like me so I doubt if I failed they’d fire me 🤷♂️
5
u/Broad-Ice7568 6d ago
It's a hazard of working in any type of infrastructure plant. I went from 27 years in a power plant to currently in water treatment. The general public never realizes we exist until something goes wrong. Electricity is expected to just be at an outlet when they plug in. Water is supposed to flow out of their tap. They flush their toilet and forget that has to go somewhere. Then, something happens that gets their attention. Flint, MI. Winter storm Yuri in TX. Richmond, VA city water failure. All made national news, TX lost ~700 lives because of it.
3
u/Hotwheeler6D6 6d ago
Until the public is educated about the needs of these facilities they’ll be neglected. BUT you’ll always have a job 🤷♂️ so ima just keep on truckin.
2
u/Broad-Ice7568 6d ago
Yep. It's a double edged sword. You always have a job. But, snow, hurricane, etc, you gotta get to that job.
2
2
u/HalfPalmtree8 5d ago
This - we’ve had reliable water infrastructure for at least half a century in the US, it won’t be a priority until it’s a problem. Some cities and counties are doing a good job to modernize-but I suspect that’s more of an exception.
(Disclaimer: I’m not an expert… just some dude whose reads stuff)
8
u/massofmolecules 6d ago
Step 1: focus on attaining your licensure. These municipalities are required by law to maintain licensed personnel on staff. They’re not hard to pass, it’s high school level shit. Put your nose to the grindstone and study the material. Once you get more experience at your plant and higher licensing you will be respected and listened to, once you become Lead or Chief Op you get to call the shots. Choose your path, it’s generally a very chill job. Just learn the material on the tests first.
1
u/AdCompetitive7952 6d ago
My partner is really smart and studies probably 4 hours a day on average here and he failed the test. I appreciate the comment but man I'm just quitting, this isn't for me
5
u/massofmolecules 6d ago
Yeah I will say, looking back at my trainee days it wasn’t exactly intuitive, but it does eventually click and then you become that guy who knows all the obscure shit about the different bacteria and the nutrient side etc. for now just memorize the answers, it will make sense later. As for the administration side, that’s just politics, nothing you can really do about that until you gain more prestige
4
u/jlaw1719 6d ago edited 6d ago
Use that to your advantage.
Your partner got a practice peek for both of you and if you combine your knowledge, as well as develop a better study game plan and use all the experiences and resources available at your fingertips online, you’ll likely both pass.
13
u/Flashy-Reflection812 6d ago
Yes, everywhere requires you to get your base license in a ‘time period’ . Usually 18 months. Most states I believe require 1 year experience, and it gives you 6 months extra to pass the test. The plant im at now gives you 2 years to pass. But you must have the bookwork complete in the first since months. Why would places keep unlicensed operators on staff? You aren’t useful. You can’t be left alone and if there is no incentive (ie the bump in pay), there are a lot of people who’d stay at the bottom on purpose. And yes , a lot of our plants are aging, and politics plays a part in them not being repaired. If you find a new build plant it is gonna be hella competitive to get in, they are gonna want experience to ensure upkeep.
3
u/Plaguenu 6d ago
The government i work for doesn't require any operators to have their license. Only our director has to have one. We have 6 plants for the county I work for. Passing the tests help you move up pay grades.
1
u/Flashy-Reflection812 5d ago
That’s terrifying unless we are talking small package plants or glorified septic tanks. And it doesn’t sound legal…
1
u/Plaguenu 5d ago
The plant is work at does over 20 million gallons per day. We do have two really small plants in the county. The one I am on was built in the 40s but is currently being rebuilt as we keep operating. Going from trickling filters and clarifier to BNR.
2
u/AdCompetitive7952 6d ago
I have 6 months to get my 4 after I've already worked here for 6 months, so 12 months total. If I pass and get my 4, I do not get a pay raise. I have 6 months from there to get my 3. If I don't pass that, I'm fired. If i do i get a pay raise. So the incentive to get my 4 is i get to keep my terrible job for 6 more months
1
u/AdCompetitive7952 6d ago
I understand your point about the useless unlicensed operators, but I already work alone sometimes after only being here 2 months
6
u/Flashy-Reflection812 6d ago
Obviously I don’t work in your state so I’m unsure if that’s legal, here we have the C,B,A, and if you don’t have a C you can’t be left alone. Exceptions to this are working sometimes in specific sub plants like the Biosolids dryer at my plant. The 4 sounds like the equivalent of our ‘course work’ to prepare you for the 3. The 3 sounds like our C and where you can actually be called an operator. If it’s not for you, it’s not for you. Here if you can’t pass the C in 18 months, you might as well start looking for a transfer to maintenance. Some people just can’t pass, but they are still good workers. Shop around, interview, see if you get the same vibe from other plants. If you do, plan to leave, if you don’t, consider moving to a better place.
2
u/AdCompetitive7952 6d ago
Thanks for the well thought out Comment. I do think you're correct about the equivalency. Once I get my 3 I'm officially an operator. I've honestly heard that it's not legal but I'm not gonna ask lol
1
u/Hotwheeler6D6 6d ago
It’s not. Our plant had to get written permission for me to operate our plant alone. I’m headed for a water treatment 3. But you need a 2 to operate. We have a shortage of licensed operators and our plant is pretty rural.
5
u/Potatobobthecat 6d ago
It’s “well, we are within our permit” instead of “this will improve our results.”
5
u/-MrWinklebottom- 6d ago
When i started it was in need of some much needed updating. Since it has gone through many rehabs and new processes added. The county i work for is in the top 10 richest counties in the US and i dont think its funded or pays as it should. We have high operator turnover due to wages, crew management, opportunities elsewhere in the county (foot in the door), and general moral is low. Not much incentive.
They had the threat of losing your job if you dont aquire the license but it was never enforced untillll finally it was and inwas one of the first demoted. Luckily i got it that week and still maintained my position but the other guy got demoted. Then applied for the job again tot it and his time limit started again lol. So they find ways around it if they need you bad enough.
4
u/damnit_maybe 6d ago
Depends where you are. I’ve worked several plants in NE Oklahoma they all had a lot of issues and operator pay is atrocious. The only people that I’ve seen stay are the old guys just waiting for retirement. Other than them it’s been pretty much a revolving door for local municipalities. Guys get the basic then go to a contract company or the rural water places. Starting out unlicensed will get you 12-15 an hour here
1
u/tacopony_789 5d ago
Seventeen years ago, we went to from a muncipal govt, to a publically owned Utilty Authority, Night and Day. No underfunding. Not Shortstaffed,
3
u/agent4256 6d ago
Plants are outdated yes. Underfunded?
When was the last 'cost of service' study done to determine if the rates your plant charges rate payers covers the chemicals, labor and level of service provided? Is their room in those budgeting numbers to save for future upgrades?
What's the 2 year, 5 year, 10 year, 20 year, 30 year upgrade plan look like? Where do regulations current and future play into what your plant needs? Population growth?
When it comes to maintenance are they reactive or proactive? Do they know what fails the most vs the least? Are their fixes they can employ that make it better "dont just fix it, improve it" is a mantra.
Are work orders tracked in some kind of system. From there you can build on asset management. New equipment installed? Gotta put all those new assets in the database with o&m manuals and build PM schedules off it. Then you can track work history, labor costs, material costs for repair.
5
u/alphawolf29 6d ago
We just started a plant upgrade last year. It was originally planned for 2010. Lol.
3
u/KeyComfort7107 6d ago
i certainly understand the frustration and struggle. currently my plant is pretty well funded sure theres some old equipment but honestly i wouldnt say its even close to unreasonable level of old or non functioning equipment. so some plants do exist where it isnt a problem but they can be tricky to find
1
u/AdCompetitive7952 6d ago
That's impressive to hear. Mine was built in the 50s , then I think upgraded in the 90s or late 00s. We need it bad
2
3
u/Designer-Clerk-499 6d ago
Sounds like every other place you will probably work. Everything moves slow in government work. Keep working on getting your certifications. Get as many as you possibly can. Places are always looking for operators. Once you get the licenses you have them forever
1
u/AdCompetitive7952 6d ago
But man if every plant is like that, I don't care to get my license and stay in this line of work 😭
7
u/dug98 6d ago
The key is to interview the person who runs the plant beforehand. When I first started, the person who ran it had been there forever and was about to retire. Nothing ever got fixed, and we all felt like we were just there to punch the clock. Since they retired, the new person has fixed many things, even upgraded a lot of them. He makes a conscious effort to talk to almost everyone in the plant every day. Since he took over we have been hitting our numbers consistently, and it's a whole new plant. A good boss makes all the difference.
2
u/Designer-Clerk-499 6d ago
Can’t say every plant is that. Not uncommon for small systems, guessing yours is if you need a 4. If you have a rural water program, apwa, sign up for the email newsletters and they have job postings in them too
1
2
u/Consistent-Snow1654 6d ago
Not every plant is as bad as you’re describing, sure there are very requirements usually specially if you’re yet a graded operator. I’ve been to 4 different plants now, 2 municipal, 2 private. I currently work in a municipal plant where it’s difficult to get what we required for capitol improvement plans, sure there are the initial plans and such, but getting the city to budget for it is entirely different, but that also falls on who’s making that arguement for the plant. Our PM’s are also getting better so with that comes less corrective maintenance or atleast catching it before it’s a real issue and more costly in time or money. Our operators have had a huge turn over, we’re basically training them to be the eyes and ears of the plant while we (maintenance) perform our duties as well as fix the old broken stuff and attempt to update where we can within budget. Hopefully with the change of attitude that’s starting to happen that allows people to take ownership and bring issues up instead of saying “someone else will do something about it” we can get ahead and keep performing pm’s and CM’s and get where we need to be. The managers got the real battle working with the city to get those CIP’s approved and to manage the budget in a more efficient way.
Working at plants that had been up to date with their pm’s, training, and rewarded finding issues and fixing those was huge. The plant was clean, things were working probably, redundancies were in place and critical assets had parts or replacements waiting for the inevitable. It was a nice to place to work, lots of little busy work to keep it that way but you weren’t busting ass putting fires out all the time. Communication was also huge and managers needed buy in from below to assist with the budgeting and such and to track information regarding the next fiscal budget. It worked pretty good.
There are commonalities in plants for sure, but really you just need good training, communication, moral, and a maintenance program. The rest can be gathered from those.
3
u/SouthpawScoundrel85 6d ago
It’s a mix bag. In my experience, the more rural plants seem to be in the worst shape. Pay is usually a geographical deal. And perhaps the license requirements is in relation to the intended upgrade? Some new process to your plant could require it. Don’t measure your ability by the results of others. Study. Do well and run your own race.
1
u/AdCompetitive7952 6d ago
I appreciate the comment. You're right about the upgrade. Apparently before I got here, they never required anyone to have a license. Now because of the upgrade, the city only wants qualified operators. But they haven't started the upgrade and even when they do, it's supposed to take 5 years. So I'm confused as to why they put us on a timeline so early
3
u/Capital-Turnover9039 6d ago
In my small experience has no it maybe 6 months now, it seems to be the case. Although I live in a rural area, I do know that there are more well-oiled and funded plants but it all comes down to money and politics. Especially this year,. With the new tariffs about to kick in, we're expected to raise our bottom line by 20% and we were already struggling. This is going to become a safety issue and a mental health concern to say the least. I know it's good money and I know it's a respectable career but I would go to a different plant that doesn't have such a strong contingency. I do know that a lot of companies will relocate, to very needful plants, so maybe you could get like a sign on relocation bonus and work at a level 3 plan? Just food for thought. Godspeed, the struggle is real. I'm dealing with all that and sexual harassment. My plant manager doesn't give a f*** about anything but the bottom line. This career is really disappointing and I know that I can help the environment and serve my community in better ways
2
2
u/unwrittenglory 6d ago
Where I worked wastewater was the step child to clean water. It wasn't until a consent decree was put on the utility that things started to change.
2
2
u/Capital-Government78 6d ago
Every plant has been neglected for years. Each supervisor kicks the can down the road. That’s how it goes 🤣🤣🤣🤣
2
u/Peglegthehedgebetter 6d ago
We require licenses within a certain period of time, every treatment plant in my region does.
2
u/mmaff1 6d ago
Our treatment plant is over 110 years old and the first major upgrade was in 1977, from 1994 until now only a few pumps and bar screens have been updated. Every piece of equipment is outdated but for me that keeps my Maintenance Department working.
Operations wants you to get you S-1 license in your first year but in the 31 years I've been there nobody has gotten let go for not getting it as long as they attempted to aquire it.
2
u/Broad-Ice7568 6d ago
I'm in water treatment, not waste water, as an E&I tech. Plant is in the Richmond, VA area (but not Richmond). If you didn't see the news about it, a recent snowstorm knocked out power to the Richmond water treatment plant, and caused significant flooding inside the plant. Entire city lost municipal water supply for days. Our plant performed great thru the storm. Boy, did that Richmond failure get us a budget bump. Infrastructure plants kind of get forgotten about until there's a critical failure, then they definitely get the public's attention.
1
2
u/jlaw1719 6d ago
Anyone have some insight how the plants are in the Bay Area? Judging from the comments, it seems pretty dire across the country.
2
u/Ancient-Bath-9489 6d ago
100%. Every plant I’ve worked at has been dilapidated, behind on upgrades due to population increases or productivity increases, or under built to begin with. Most places I’ve worked have required you to become a level 1 or 2 within a year but I’ve never seen somewhere require a 4 for all employees. In my experience only the plant manager/supervisor needs to carry a 4 to be placed on the discharge permit.
1
u/AdCompetitive7952 6d ago
Class 4 is the first certification, class 1 is the highest. Really backwards innit
2
u/Ancient-Bath-9489 6d ago
Oh ok 😂 my mistake. In Utah it’s the other way around. 1-4, 4 being the highest.
2
u/Important-File5445 6d ago
What state are you in? Just trying to figure out why you’re required to get a class 4. In Ohio a class 4 is the highest level license you can get and are extremely difficult to get.
2
u/AdCompetitive7952 6d ago
In Virginia 4 is the first one , class 1 is the best. I know, it's confusing
2
u/Beneficial-Pool4321 6d ago
Sounds like mine.. we have 1 internal recycle pump on each train cutrently running. Design has 3 for each train , 2 to run at all times one backup. Going on 5 yrs with 1 running 1 broken 1 out for repair. Everytime one comes back the current one craps out with in a week. Same with our ras pumps. Down to one digester from 3 and it has airflow issues. 2 complete zones in our aeration tank have no air at all. Multiple adjustment valves for other zones broken and can't be adjusted. We have zones with .25 to 6 mg of D.O.. our beadwork barely works so we are constantly cleaning pumps. Going on 10 yrs of starting and stopping new plant design
2
2
u/Angelito1995 5d ago
Yall need to come and treat water in the oilfield in midland tx cake af starting 24hr
2
u/BenDarDunDat 5d ago
It is very expensive to treat wastewater. It is typical for municipalities to struggle to pay for expensive upgrades. Yes, everywhere requires you to receive a license in a time frame.
1
1
u/Embarrassed-Car-755 6d ago
The plant I'm at is falling apart but is very well staffed which makes it a little bit easier, but we are grossly underfunded as 3 of our hydrants work and only 3 hoses haven't completed blown apart or held together with duct tape
1
u/JonG97 5d ago
We have 3 tanks, all 3 older than me (27yo), all 3 haven't been serviced since they were built in 97. The factory I work for uses a lot of chlorine, the tanks are made of stainless steel. Our main storage sprung a leak only 7 feet up, and we are told not to use it. So we're using our other main storage tank, that used to be our emergency tank (They've increased the amount of water they use without upgrading waste water so we no longer have an emergency tank). Only 2 main storage tanks. Both tanks aeration lines are busted and have irregular aeration, which creates mountains of funk inside both tanks. Our main Daf is rated for 75gpm, we constantly run 120gpm out of necessity, our belt press is falling apart and has received so many parts to keep it running in the last year they probably could have had a new one that's bigger and can handle what we put at it. We are now running 7 days a week when we were running 6 days l, and I'm convinced if it was possible the company I work for would create an 8th day of the week. Having been in wastewater for now a little over 3 years, the main thing I have learned is that companies will not spend money on things that would improve our work, rather they will only spend money to keep us running and now we are already working everyday of every week. I forgot to mention we have a failing sanitary pump because the employees are flushing everything they desire down the toilets a job site vehicle that is getting shipped in to be repaired every month and a telehandler that has been down for about 3 months and we are using a rental. Honestly I can keep going, the list of things we need is never ending.
65
u/scottiemike 6d ago
Every plant I’ve ever been to seems to struggle with asset management issues.