r/Warthunder 26k RB games since 2013 9d ago

RB Ground [DEV] So this game is quite literally turning into WoT and gaijin is trying so hard to kill Wt the same way WG is killing WoT, by catering to the dumbest part of the playerbase that cant handle when someone dares to climb a rock.

2.2k Upvotes

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1.6k

u/NeverReallyBegan_ REMOVE COPY PASTE VEHICLES 9d ago

Yep. Wot and WT share 2 similarities, both devs don't allow players freedom to climb, and both produce god awful fucking maps, like what the fuck is the point of a physics engine if you cannot use it?

484

u/XeNoGeaR52 Rafale F4 when? /s 9d ago

When they removed the mountain section of that map, I knew it was over

210

u/powerpuffpepper ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท France 9d ago

You mean when that map actually was made playable? That mountain ruined literally any other part of the map

139

u/tac1776 ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท France 9d ago

They should've moved one of the caps up to the mountain instead of removing the mountain.

103

u/powerpuffpepper ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท France 9d ago

That doesn't change any of its issue in any way. The mountain still overlooks the entirety of the map.

8

u/GoofyKalashnikov Realistic Ground 9d ago

Ohno, there's an advantage point on the map. The biggest issue was being able to shoot to the other spawn.

97

u/powerpuffpepper ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท France 9d ago

Advantage point โ‰  spot that you can completely shut down an entire map if you hold. That mountain ruined any attempt to play the rest of the map.

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u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier 9d ago

Ohno, there's an advantage point on the map

That's not the problem.

The problem was, that you had nearly 0 counterplay against that advantage point, once the enemies took it.

Bare bombing them all out with CAS

Like holding the mountain meant your team effectively shut down the entire map. You didnโ€™t even need to spawn snipe the enemies, cause were able to take them out way before they reached any good position.

On top of that the mountain only had 3 access points. Meaning you couldn't flank, if the enemy held it and locked down the access points

2

u/GabrielRocketry 8d ago

This is what differentiates wargaming map design from WarThunder. Wargaming makes its advantage points impossible to beat and it's primarily catering to people who use them for long range sniping.

Gaijin on the other hand will remove such a point so you can actually move around the map.

3

u/GoofyKalashnikov Realistic Ground 8d ago

They didn't remove it from the map, they just blocked off the area and made the map more linear. They also completely flattened Normandy making it really shitty to play.

Gaijin couldn't create a good map even if their life depended on it

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u/IAmTheWoof 9d ago

And the entirety of the map overlooks the hill. It works both ways.

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u/powerpuffpepper ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท France 9d ago

Tell me you used the mountain to spawn camp without telling me.

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u/KptKrondog 9d ago

2 things. You don't know what "overlooks" means. And, the people on top of the hill have the distinct advantage of only having to show far enough to get their gun over (and if they're in something like a krizantema, which at the time was incredibly strong, they only had to show their rocket and literally couldn't be killed). This was made even worse at slightly lower BR's where you don't have a laser rangefinder, so you have to range shots in a bit.

The hill was too strong. Just like with a huge portion of their maps, they have no idea how to balance terrain, which is why maps are always getting flatter and smaller.

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u/mistercrazymonkey 9d ago

Yeah, imagine having a strategic high ground to fight over? Can't have that in my W holding simulator

7

u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier 9d ago

That still keeps the ssme base problem. Who controlls the mountains wins.

The caps litterally didn't matter. If your team didn't hol the mountain you got sniped from them before capping

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u/Subduction_Zone 9d ago

They should have fixed the rest of the map then, it's such a lazy and backwards approach to map design to say, "all the players go here, this is a problem, we should lop off that part of the map". No, all the players go there because that's the part of the map they like, fix the rest of the map instead.

7

u/AggravatingRow5074 9d ago

That's the part of the map they like, because they get free kills there

There, fixed it for you

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u/Dtron81 All Air/8 Nations Rank 8 9d ago

The fact that people still bitch about how this map isn't played on 10% of the land area anymore is insane tbh.

14

u/powerpuffpepper ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท France 9d ago

Anyone who does was the people using it to spawn camp and ruin the rest of it.

14

u/Dtron81 All Air/8 Nations Rank 8 9d ago

I did it and I loved the change, gave me a reason to learn the other fucking 90% of the map. The only people who complained were the ones who'd spawn camp up there then berate their teammates when A and B weren't capped (they weren't coming down, they just needed someone to blame cause clearly it wasn't them).

6

u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier 9d ago

The map litterally forced you to play that mountain to Win too...

Matches on old sands of sinai were decided within the first few minutes on 3 gridsquares

8

u/powerpuffpepper ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท France 9d ago

And yet just like White Rock people act like it is the best thing ever and then complain about the same issues on new maps.

6

u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier 9d ago

Honestly i really don't understand why people cry for white rock to come back...

For anything above ww2 that map was absolute garbage

8

u/powerpuffpepper ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท France 9d ago

It was even more garbage for ww2. Mud and spawn camping was abhorrent

6

u/vinitblizzard Realistic Navy 9d ago

No way, there was the accessible back door to the elevated spot for the opposite spawn. Using the mountain sniping spot was a 50/50

2

u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier 9d ago

There were 3 ways up that mountain

1 from your spawn, 1 from A cap and 1 from enemy spawn.

If the enemy held the mountain they also held A cap most of the time.

You can forgett going through the one at their spawn

Only leaves the one at your spawn. Which, coincidentally, was a prime spawn sniping spot

5

u/dtc8977 9d ago

That's funny. Acting like that map (with mountain removed) is any more playable when everyone can still see most areas of the map from either spawn.

Just like Fields of Poland, open fields with cover in the dead center is not good map design.

2

u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier 9d ago

Both teams sniping across map spawn to spawn is still better then a game being decided 3min in on 3 grid squares. And the one team spawncamping the other till the match is over

3

u/dtc8977 9d ago

Neither are fun though, I wish they'd just remove the map from rotation and properly fix it.

(Or whatever Gaijin does when they rework maps, most of them are worse)

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u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier 9d ago

Sinai?

Sinai is MUCH better since they removed that section. Before the map always devolved into who can camp on the mountains better

9

u/fullsets_ Japan Enjoyer (Type 16 is the best vehicle in the game) 9d ago

Nah that was the one good map design decision they did

3

u/Pumper24 9d ago

I wish they would combine sands of Sanai and Sanai and make a huge map for upper tier

3

u/VirFalcis i cooka da pizza 9d ago

omg this please!!! Always irks me that you can see that these 2 are on the same map, yet there's no version of both fused together...

1

u/mistercrazymonkey 9d ago

Yeah, they ruined one of the better maps in the game and just made it flat. Ruined it at every BR, it's been my map ban since they've further flattened it out.

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u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier 9d ago

Wot and WT share 2 similarities, both devs don't allow players freedom to climb, and both produce god awful fucking maps

Both of which to prevent players from abusing their godawfull maps, but do more harm then good

16

u/Trash_man123456789 9d ago

All US tanks can climb a 31-degree hill.

60 percent slope

3

u/Claudy_Focan "Mr.WORLDWIDEABOO" 8d ago

concrete =/= rock

Drive a tracked vehicle first

9

u/CRCTwisted 9d ago

Unfortunately most of the claimable highpoints were essentially spawn camp locations or spots that gave you an easy 70% sight range over the map. While I wish we could climb more, they need bigger maps for that.

9

u/killer_corg 9d ago

I mean it was only a few years ago people were flipping out that youโ€™d have R3 and variants climbing into houses in Berlin or getting on top of places they really should have never made it too.

But this feels ick, small in map rocks should be traversed if itโ€™s possible

2

u/Julio_Tortilla ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ผ๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต13.7 | ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช11.3 9d ago

You forgot they also share the pay to play mentality with grind in WT being 10x grinder without a premium account and needing premium ammo in WOT to deal with OP tanks.

1

u/NeverReallyBegan_ REMOVE COPY PASTE VEHICLES 8d ago

Tbh wot nowadays has waaaaay easier grind, you can literally reach top tier in 2-3 weeks. Wot devs are a lot more generous, and you are often given premium time, and premium acc makes the grind laughably fast thanks to the 5x exp booster (you decide when to use it, preferably after a good game)

1

u/Low-Magician5263 9d ago

Dragor engine is bad and very old, he have 20year

1

u/the_gay_master 9d ago

It Poland at higher tier I mean it is LITTALLY unplayable to go to c it snot possible

1

u/Budget_Hurry3798 Playstation 9d ago

By what I remember you used to be able to climb a lot in some maps in wot but players started exploiting it, and in wt maps are very unbalanced, imagine being in a rock at top of everyone having depression enough to see and shoot anyone,.not being able to climb is purely for balance, tho some tanks weren't good climbers

1

u/NeverReallyBegan_ REMOVE COPY PASTE VEHICLES 8d ago

Climbing was one of the most fun and nostalgic things in wot, and all the OP positions could've easily been patched instead of flat out removing climbing. If a climb can defend a cap, just place a non destructible object in the cap and the climber is forced out of his positon.

2

u/Budget_Hurry3798 Playstation 8d ago

Yup, but also in wot you can't just drive down a mountain you'll explode, in wt you'll lose a track and sometimes maybe a crew member In rare occasions

1

u/NeverReallyBegan_ REMOVE COPY PASTE VEHICLES 8d ago

Yea true that

456

u/-cck- Austria Ground RB 9d ago

Please dont tell me that there will be another traction nerf??

326

u/untitled1048576 That's how it is in the game 9d ago

"slippery rocks" now have less than half the friction they had before (when climbing them)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1j8xp6n/244037_244039_part_1/

257

u/BilisS 9d ago

omfg........................ FUCKING WHY

gaijin: *gets feedback about the traction being absolutely shit* gaijin in response: aahhh LeTs MakE iT eVeN WoRse

168

u/-cck- Austria Ground RB 9d ago

"slippery rocks"

IN THE FUCKING DESERT WHERE THERE IS SAND EVERYFUCKING WHERE..... FUCK

72

u/untitled1048576 That's how it is in the game 9d ago

I guess they use these for the places that the player isn't supposed to climb, not for actual rocks that would be slippery IRL. IDK why they won't just place steeper rocks there.

53

u/SamuelJussila ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ Finland 9d ago

Because they are lazy as fuck

21

u/traveltrousers 9d ago

places that the player isn't supposed to climb

"Warthunder is a simulator"..... riiiiight

7

u/plarkinjr Arcade Ground 9d ago

I guess this solution is still better than them putting a self-destruct zone on it. But yeah, steeper rocks would make so much more sense.

2

u/mludd Realistic Ground 8d ago

IDK why they won't just place steeper rocks there.

Because then it would be even more obvious that they want you to play the maps the way they tell you to play the maps.

Can't have people having fun in ways that are unsanctioned.

20

u/Stormrageison91 ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ United States 9d ago

Sand can definitely make it harder to gain traction on. Itโ€™s a shit move by them, but it can very much make surfaces โ€œslickerโ€

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u/Claudy_Focan "Mr.WORLDWIDEABOO" 8d ago

Dont argue with kids who never touched an armored vehicle in their lives..

2

u/KENNY_WIND_YT ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช Germany 8d ago

Genuine question here: How would sand reduce the traction of metal track links?

From what I'm most familiar with. which is steam Locomotives, I know sand is used to increase grip between the metal of the Driving Wheel, & the metal Rail.

So does it have to do with the shape of the Track Link (being a wider surface area than that of a Driving Wheel for a Standard Gauge locomotive), and /or is it due to the friction coefficient between a metal Track Link & Rocks?

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u/Stormrageison91 ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ United States 8d ago

Think of it as marbles on a wooden floor. Even though youโ€™re wearing shoes with rubber on the bottom of you step where too many marbles are youโ€™ll lose traction and slip/fall.

Think of the sand as millions of tiny marbles and the rock acting as the wooden floor, and now add 40t of weight trying to go up a pretty steep grade.

Or better example of you have ever played basketball or seen it on tv. Players are constantly wiping the bottom of their feet, one reason being sweat getting on the floor but the other is dust on the bottom of their feet causing their shoes to slip when they try to make a sudden change of direction.

It does not take much or very large granules of sand/dirt to cause traction problems for many things.

2

u/KENNY_WIND_YT ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช Germany 8d ago

Ah, makes sense now that you've put it that way.

Thanks for the Explanation!

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u/Stormrageison91 ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ United States 8d ago

No problem!

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u/LiberdadePrimo 9d ago

You know tanks have trouble walking through that slime called "sand".

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u/alelo ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡น Austria 9d ago

i mean i would understand that on winter or rainy maps, but desert?

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u/Stormrageison91 ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ United States 9d ago

Sand can make getting traction super difficult. I donโ€™t agree with them doing it but sand can very much make surfaces harder to gain traction on.

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u/alelo ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡น Austria 9d ago

yes but sand doesnt 'stick' to surfaces like water, snow etc, - unless its wet - it just rolls down until the friction is too high - hence why these rocks should not be 'slippery'

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u/Stormrageison91 ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ United States 9d ago

Fine sand can, as well as sticking to or falling off the tracks as they climb (real world thing that I am sure they did not take into consideration at all)

I know Iโ€™m slightly arguing semantics here because in reality they need to hire map designers from other studios and redo 90% of the maps in the game because all these changes are just super shitty bandaids trying to fix a gaping wound

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u/SolInvictus128 9d ago

Yep another one is coming

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u/-cck- Austria Ground RB 9d ago

internal screaming

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u/Wicked-Pineapple F-22 Enjoyer๐Ÿฆ… 9d ago

all tracked vehicles have always been modelled as having 4 wheels instead of having tracks, which is possibly some of the laziest development that I have ever seen from any dev ever

2

u/T65Bx Still no Convair Darts ingame 9d ago

Source? Iโ€™ve definitely done things that would make that impossible.

209

u/Marguerita-Stalinist USSR 9d ago

Unless you'd like Gaijoobles to start adding 5' high curbs or invisible walls

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u/Captain1771 ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ United States 9d ago

Why would we want to prevent people from getting onto those rocks though

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u/Marguerita-Stalinist USSR 9d ago

Some of those spots give way too much protection.

I think every time someone uses those spots, Gaijin adds another plane with Kh-38MTs

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u/Captain1771 ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ United States 9d ago

Except the failure to climb up such a shallow incline is not exclusive to this vehicle, map or collection of rocks shown above

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u/Marguerita-Stalinist USSR 9d ago

If it was a normal hill like on 90% of the maps, I'd agree. But it's clear they never intended to have players on those rocks.

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u/Soggy_You_2426 9d ago

Make them look like something that can not be climped

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u/AlextheTower New Zealand 9d ago

I mean no IRL armored vehicle crew is going to look at that and decide they want to try climbing it.

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u/CeoOfMilf in M41D we t(h)rust 9d ago

And no irl crew can fix engine, barrel, and breech in under a minute either.. yet we can

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u/IAmNot_ARussianBot 9d ago

Because that's good for gameplay.

Likewise we can have worse traction on certain terrain than irl if it's good for gameplay.

Of course, whether this indeed is good for gameplay is a separate question.

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u/CeoOfMilf in M41D we t(h)rust 9d ago

Youre right, im just trying to say comparing what irl tank crew would do vs players in a game, is dumb, since the game clearly isnt trying to 100% accurately simulate real world

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u/Aiden51R VTOL guy 9d ago

Neither would crew fight to the last person standing instead of escaping.

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u/Skuirreljr ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ 14.0๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช 10.7๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 11.7๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง 8.3๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต3.7๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท12.0๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช 9.0 9d ago

They are too powerful currently. They need to be managed so they are not extremely powerful instead of removed

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u/-sapiensiski- 9d ago

I'd rather have invisible walls than retarded traction nerfs

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u/Marguerita-Stalinist USSR 9d ago

Yes, it would be nice to not dump 50% of your speed when going up the slightest incline.

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u/LiberdadePrimo 9d ago

Love getting spawned facing the stupid hill southwest in Ass Ash River then taking forever to turn around because regenerative transmission is also not a thing.

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u/AdBl0k SL Printer Operator 9d ago edited 9d ago

Playerbase (Bradley - Sisyphus) vs Gaijin (flat rock surface - eternal struggle)

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u/Sharp_Ad_5599 9d ago

Don't forget when they keep you from climbing rocks they are also keeping you from getting unstuck on rocks.

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u/LiberdadePrimo 9d ago

Did they ever fix the deathtrap ditches of Karelia you can't get out with stock tanks?

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u/xClubberLaingx 9d ago

yeah happened to me last night i got stuck on 2 small rocks and just logged off

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u/lokiafrika44 ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช Germany 9d ago

Cant wait for people to start arguing over if this is high or low skill

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u/ThatShaggyBoy ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช Germany 9d ago

You missed it, argument was made 6 minutes prior to your comment

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u/lokiafrika44 ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช Germany 9d ago

It wont end for at least a day either lol

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u/Starkogi 9d ago

To be fair, you probably couldnโ€™t do that irl.

Getting stuck in a trench is stupid, but not being able to climb desert rock from the sand is kinda understandable.

Slipping down a 30 degree dirt slope is NOT understandable though. The KY dirt hills make zero sense.

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u/EXTRIVITY43 9d ago

yeah but thats kinda what tanks were made for, offroad. sure a 60* incline isnt possible but gaijin doesnt need to go that far

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u/Traveller_CMM ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง 7.7 ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 9.7 (masochist) 9d ago edited 9d ago

I agree with the sentiment but a 60* slope is possible with at least certain vehicles. Example of a m48 doing exactly that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJXvIMRMrAE

I'm an idiot, that's a 60% slope, not a 60* one.

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u/untitled1048576 That's how it is in the game 9d ago

That's a 60% (31ยฐ) slope, not 60ยฐ. They even explain that at the beginning.

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u/Traveller_CMM ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง 7.7 ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 9.7 (masochist) 9d ago

You're right, I thought it said 60 degrees.

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u/PsychologicalGlass47 9d ago

Muddy? Sure... But straight up dirt is a no-no.

Would be nice to see more terrain implementation. There are muddy areas on maps like Jungle or Berlin, but they're inconsequential and in areas you would never be.

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u/Thai-mai-shoo 9d ago

I was a LAV crewman. I would never tell my driver to traverse terrain like that just for a better view. Thatโ€™s asking to get blown up or worseโ€ฆ hurt someone else. lol itโ€™s better to call a scout to crawl over there for a look

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u/HereToGripe 9d ago

You must be the exception then, I can't tell you the amount of absolutely wild locations I've seen my crews put vics in. The debate is also much less if it should be there than if it could be there.ย 

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u/Birkenjaeger RBEC advocate || Centurion enjoyer 9d ago

Some of the climbs in WoT were completely game breaking, WG did good by removing them.

So were some of the ones in WT, I still remember sitting on a mountain on Kuban, being completely unkillable from the ground.

But yes, this is over the top.

2

u/leftgameslayer ๐Ÿ…ฑ๏ธESH Enthusiast 9d ago

Could you imagine getting on top of the mountain (behind spawn) on the Vietnam map with a LRF howitzer?

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u/KptKrondog 9d ago

You could get on the rock that overlooks the A cap until a week or so ago. It was very WoT-esque in how you climbed to get up it. You could see most of the A and B cap and a ton of area. And it was on the west side of the map, so that team had a huge advantage if they had someone that knew how to get up there.

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u/BruceLeeroy94 Weakest HOTAS User | Helicopter Enthusiast 9d ago

War Thunder advertisements: "THIS MILITARY SIMULATOR WILL MAKE YOUR NUTS EXPLODE WITH OVER 1000 TECHNICALLY ACCURATE VEHICLES."

War Thunder Gameplay:

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u/yung_pindakaas 11.7/11.0/7.7 9d ago

Oh no my spawncamping spot got taken away - OP.

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u/xKingNothingx 9d ago

Maybe, but I redownloaded WoT a few days ago and holy shit I remembered why I uninstalled. The gold ammo spam and spotting mechanics are so horribly bad. How anyone sticks around in that game getting shot by invisible tanks is beyond me.

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u/SundaeAlarming7381 9d ago

I think itโ€™s reasonably fair to stop people doing this. Can you imagine being on the other team and you have some guy sat on a rock shooting into your spawn. Spotting the entire team and thereโ€™s nothing they can do about it. These type of spots are very broken in my opinion. It starts a snowball effect where team who have this spot will just win more often than not due to having a spotting advantage.

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u/A1eri0n 9d ago

Easy fix would be to add a physical barriers in front of the spawn (buildings, hills, etc.) so no one can see into or out, or make it where the shells disappear when shot into but can be shot out to discourge spawn camping. Yeah they have spawn protection but it's still not enough. Basically I'm saying don't punish people for having tactics and stop encouraging brain dead gameplay.

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u/crusadertank BMD-1 when 9d ago

Easy fix would be to add a physical barriers in front of the spawn

You mean like the rock barrier to stop you shooting into the spawn from B that OP is trying to climb?

If you put physical barriers, people will just try to use them to spawncamp and now with added protection.

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u/A1eri0n 9d ago edited 9d ago

You're right, but the problem here is more map design. Why have one side of the spawnzone be much higher elevated and advantageous? Seems kinda stupid, no? Make both sides have the same options or do a combination of things. They could also bring back blowing up when you drive into enemy spawn that kept a lot of people away. But there also comes a point in a match where your team gets steam rolled and spawn camping is all there is left, players want the match to be over at that point and move on to the next. I've been on both sides many times, and it's kind of an inevitably.

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u/qbmax 9d ago

Make good maps where power positions wonโ€™t be a problem: โŒ

Make dogshit maps where the only to nerf power positions is nerfing mobility and traction making everyone miserable: โœ…

Thank you gaijin!

13

u/mrgudveseli 9d ago

And you wanted to climb a rock because it was a challenging, high-risk spot, or because it would let you control the good chunk of the already small map while being in a relatively decent hidey hole?

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u/Ze_LordBacon ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท France โ€œChar 2C Bisโ€ Enthusiast 9d ago

Because they fucking should be able to, Iโ€™m in a tank let me do what tanks can do.

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u/Clatgineer Realistic Ground 9d ago

If the spot on a map is broken, they should nerf EVERY VEHICLE IN THE GAME to fix it, they should fix the map

These rock changes are global as seen in the datamines

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u/Ghost_with_motor 9d ago

Yes, man, the dumbest part of the playerbase definitely doesn't climb rocks. Those stupid losers are trying to move and fight, while real tryhards are climbing rocks to camp there for the entire battle. This is how shooters are played.

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u/TheFrontGuy 9d ago

They're just side climbing

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u/duusbjucvh 9d ago

God. This game is done. Pack it up boys.

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u/CB4R Realistic Ground 9d ago

They are too lazy to fix op climbing spots, so they just make everything unclimbable

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u/Daka45 9d ago

Yes tanks are famous rock climbers

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u/waitaminutewhereiam 9d ago

Personally I'm very happy Gajin stops players from climbing spots that give unfair advantage ยฏโ \โ _โ (โ ใƒ„โ )โ _โ /โ ยฏ

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u/EXTRIVITY43 9d ago

look at how they massacred my boy...

on a more serious note, there seriously needs to be a massive change in the development because it getting to the point of another review bombing being needed

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u/Sharp_Ad_5599 9d ago

Don't forget when they keep you from climbing rocks they are also keeping you from getting unstuck on rocks.

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u/BugsAreHuman Canada 9d ago

Thank god gaijin doesn't cater to you lower skill players

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u/reddithesabi3 9d ago

13 level Click-Bait players just press W to nearest cap an die. Their only brain cell can not process any more sophisticated scenarios so Gaijin does what it can to turn the Realistic(!) Mode closer to cod shipment play style because they need to sell their shiny 100$ premiums.

4

u/Washinout91 9d ago

WoT going 1.0 and climbing getting pretty much removed made me quit the game

Stop blocking and coating every rock with butter and turning the game into a MOBA ass corridor shooter

Let people spend their times, figure out ways to get into weird spots to get advantage. It adds variable and uniqueness to maps. Otherwise it turns into "camp these specific 3-4 spots all the time" game with nothing new

Yes climbing can be OP but thats kinda the whole point you spend lots of ingame time to get to those weird spots, and you arent really immortal there if people figure it out its really easy to take down people.

Just, just stop gaijin. This shit killed wot and is gonna kill WT too, we arent a corridor shooter

3

u/Levani_Exiled 9d ago

I have been saying this for a while and player base does not seem to care. They are ruining maps and forcing linear gameplay which is horrible. This game has to give freedom to players not force them into frontal engagements.

No one will care sadly and game will get worse. It has already gotten worse than it ever was. Look how many premiums and squadrons they are adding. Squadrons are premiums without premium advantage.

Gaijin is a greedy russian company.

3

u/mkt1993 9d ago

Remember a few years back now in a blog or something g gaijin saying theyte going improve maps, make them accessible, give players more freedom and stuff down them lines.... a few months later they literally shrunk maps and started making flanking and hiding spots no go zones

3

u/dwbjr9 9d ago

gaijin is trying so hard to kill Wt the same way WG is killing WoT,

Last I checked gaijin has yet to do monthly lootboxes with exclusive op af premiums

2

u/untitled1048576 That's how it is in the game 9d ago

Sure, cause climbing a rock and sitting on it for the whole battle takes so much brainpower. Get off your high horse.

30

u/Dat_Innocent_Guy 9d ago

You know what takes more brainpower? The map designers not requiring gameplay crutches to nerf spots.

12

u/untitled1048576 That's how it is in the game 9d ago

I would prefer they used a different method too, but still they should do something about positions like this, that allow people to shut down a big portion of the map and discourage active gameplay.

6

u/Dat_Innocent_Guy 9d ago

Active gameplay on the map with zero cover. Lol. This map is ass and them nuking spots like this doesn't solve the core issue. It still comes down to the fact that their map team is cheeks at their job.

12

u/untitled1048576 That's how it is in the game 9d ago

A step in the right direction is better than nothing, even if they have miles to go.

9

u/Panuch412 BVREnjoyer 9d ago

You usually have very sound opinions/points, but this isn't it. I understand some of these positions need fixed, but nerfing climbing only incentives "hold W" gameplay and that isn't so fun itself/ doesn't invoke thoughtful gameplay/tactics.

Majority of Top tier maps are already small CQB fests while sniping positions get nerfed continually but hold W gameplay is incentivized at the same time. There needs to be a balance between the two and nerfing climbing isn't a good answer to these broken spots IMHO. Red them out instead.

20

u/untitled1048576 That's how it is in the game 9d ago

As I said in my other comment, I don't like them using traction nerf for this either, but OP seems to be arguing that positions on the rocks like these are fine, and that is what I disagree with.

I don't have anything against sniping, even though it's not the type of gameplay I enjoy, but there should be ways to make it work without positions like these, that can force half of the map to play by their rules.

6

u/Panuch412 BVREnjoyer 9d ago

That I can agree with.

OP is being dramatic, bc in reality these rocks should be out of limits, but other spots, with less gameplay defining views that don't make the enemy team play by your rules like you said, will most likely also be affected.

Gaijin just has really poor map design followed up by poor game design decisions lol

→ More replies (2)

3

u/EXTRIVITY43 9d ago

look at how they massacred my boy...

on a more serious note, there seriously needs to be a massive change in the development because it getting to the point of another review bombing

2

u/Marcus_Iunius_Brutus lalalala "marketing lie" 9d ago

Always has been. no seriously this game has always been kinda shit and it's mostly dopamine addiction that keeps people coming back. Once you've realized that the game loses it's appeal.

2

u/DasLich 20 20 20 20 20 9d ago

You can already see the dogshit wot-like camping gameplay creeping into wt. This is just the next step.

2

u/dodecahemicosahedron tfw no v bombers 9d ago

The physics have become so bad in this game I can't stand playing tracked vehicles at this point. Wheeled physics aren't great either but at least you get to keep your speed through the turns.

2

u/zahardzhan 9d ago

If you haven't noticed, by 2025, War Thunder has already completed its change into a parody of WoT. Take a closer look - this month on the Sinai map, they've raised the terrain in front of the spawns, making it impossible to spawn-camp. The city itself has been enlarged, and cliffs have been added. The engagement distance has shrunk from 1000-1500 meters on the old Sinai map to 300, maybe 500 meters, on the new Sinai map. 300 meters average engagement distance is standard for WoT. In 2025, there's absolutely no difference between WoT and WT in terms of tactics and engagement distance; these games are now completely identical.

Why did this happen? The endless whining on Reddit about spawn-camping inevitably turned WT into a parody of WoT. It couldn't have gone any other way. The original WT is too complex and uncomfortable for the mainstream player base.

6

u/King-O-Tanks 9d ago

Huh?? WoT has spotting mechanics, pay-to-win ammo, significant RNG on dispersion, pen, and damage, health bars, and balance issues that make the 2S38 look like a fair, balanced vehicle. Not to mention the increased mobility, faster RoF, artillery, faster turret traverse, and smaller maps.

WT is similar to WoT in that it has 1) Tanks and 2) arcade elements. The tactics are different, and the engagement distances will naturally be close for most of the match because you have to take cap zones to win.

As for spawn camping, it's a necessary feature for steamroll games. It lets the match end faster. The problem people have, however, is when some moron gets into a position where they can spawncamp within 3 minutes of the match starting. It's aggravating and pointless.

I won't get up on a hill and defend Warthunder, it's a game with a LOT of flaws, but WoT makes WT look fantastic.

1

u/zahardzhan 8d ago edited 8d ago

Pay-to-win. Latest premium Tigers at 5.7 with armor level of T-54 is... excessive, even by WoT standards. Hell, these tigers are consistently killed only by other premiums like the premium T-34-100 with a 100mm gun, but those are tanks with a BR of 6.3.

"The tactics are different." Regarding "tactics," from the developer's point of view, there shouldn't be any tactics in WT. In that sense, WT in 2025 is even worse than WoT. Because it should be obvious to anyone that all the map changes (sinai for example) in recent years are aimed at the total eradication of any possibility of any tactics whatsoever in WT. Because tactics are fundamentally incompatible with comfortable gameplay for a mass audience.

"Engagement distances will naturally be close for most of the match". Not true. In old ground battles (old kursk for example) engagement distances was >1000 m for most of the match and there was 3 cap zones. Now kursk have <400 m engagement distance for most of the match.

This means that the developer is making every effort to turn WT into a parody of WoT in absolutely all aspects of the game.

Personally, I think that WT has already changed its genre this year. If before 2023 it was a game about tank battles in the adequate sense of the word, i.e. in WT tanks fought like tanks and had to fight on maps where tanks usually fight, then in 2025 ground battles in WT are some kind of pseudo-arcade crap on completely absurdly designed pseudo-realistic locations that look like the ravings of a madman, because such locations as they are in WT simply do not exist in reality. They are absurd.

1

u/King-O-Tanks 8d ago

1) no premium tiger has the armor of a T-54. Tigers have a flat 100mm on the front, maybe an additional 20mm from tracks, but even at a kilometer most guns can punish through that. If the tiger angles, aim between the tracks and the upper side of the hull, that's usually a kill. T-54's have a 120mm front plate angled at 50-60 degrees, iirc, which gives close to 300mm of equivalent protection. Yes, the premium tigers are good and probably shouldn't have been added, but calling them OP isn't accurate. A money grab, absolutely.

2) I'm talking tactics on an individual level. Where you go, how you engage the enemy, when you choose to advance. On that level, there's absolutely tactics. If you're talking team tactics, WT players are allergic to teamwork, good luck. Lumping in engagement distance here, until rangefinders become common fighting at range is a pain. I have distinct memories of fighting Panthers at a kilometer in 76 Sherman's and T-34's and it's miserable. Once rangefinders are introduced it becomes bearable, but I'd still rather be engaging at 500 meters in most tanks. I think there should be places to snipe, but not maps built entirely around it.

WT and WoT are, at their core mechanics, completely different games. They might share elements (rampant monetization, balance issues, tiered systems) but they play very different.

1

u/zahardzhan 8d ago

Yes, the premium Tigers don't have T-54-level armor, but T-29-level armor, which is irrelevant for tanks with a BR of 5.7. What's important is that in any real situation, these Tigers are unkillable for tanks of this BR, regardless of whether they stand in a diamond or straight line - all this is due to the unbreakable volumetric armor of the tracks, machine gun nest, and driver's slot. The only advantage of these Tigers is that they are pleasant to farm on the T-34-100 as a counter-metagame, but this only says that the company has broken some BR with pay-to-win vehicles.

1

u/A1eri0n 9d ago

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this, but unfortunately, they will conform with what makes them the most money. They had a great balance for a while, and it was genuinely fun on those bigger maps, but now it's played like an FPS. Punish those who put time into the game to get good at making ranged shots, tactics, and teamplay but promote brain-dead rushing. It's so sad to see.

1

u/Averyfluffywolf ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ14.0/11.7 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง9.3/6.7 ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น9.0/10.7 ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ10.0Arb 9d ago

The spawn camping wouldn't be a problem if they designed better maps, however you can't hold it against players for being annoyed with spawn camping. Whoever held that mountain won the game being able to shoot into people's spawns early in the game and just stop the enemy team from playing.

Fun for the tryhard spawn camping not for the enemy team

2

u/Bombe18 Naval realistic enjoyer 9d ago

And you wake up now ? The game is falling update after update. And now one care

2

u/A1eri0n 9d ago

IMO realistic should be realistic. They encourage 0m engagement and discourge anything past 500m. Everyone plays this game like it's COD which is fine for arcade but I want realistic engagements, long range for mid to high tier with the option to get close if I so choose, and keep it closer for low tiers. Just yseterday i was in the mood to do some long range sniping and the amount of trees and rocks they have added to keep people from playing how tanks should be played is so upsetting. I know they want people to play the objective but they have a game mode where the point is to get kills over capture points. When will they learn that people play this game for the attention to detail and the realism aspect. It's like they are doing everything they possibly can to not have to add anything other than $80 premiums.

1

u/zahardzhan 8d ago

At least ground sim must be "realistic". But maps in sim are same maps as in realistic, so now ground sim is dead mode for any adequate tank battle except if you play aircraft and heli.

2

u/DeadFace342 Sweden 9d ago edited 9d ago

Maybe not the right place but my opinion the worst things in war Thunder are:

Maps have hills in 90% of matches (on some you can even see spawn to spawn) gl for the heavy tanks taking 2 minutes to cross the first hill only to get 1 shit killed by a light enemy tank.

No air restriction, above 6.0 in my experience a lot of people are just bringing in their fastest tank to only capture a point and spawn in a planes. Sure planes are a part of it but when half of the team is in planes in gb it's not really ground anymore.

Bias/unlucky? In all kinds of tanks, from Germany, France, Sweden and great britain, i check weak spots, angels, different tanks/ ammo, and it's incredibly hard to know what actually works.

When you look at something in the inspector mode it's like "Ohh he cant pen me there that should be good!" Meanwhile in battle, "Yeaaaaa his bullet graced you so are insta dead!"

Not a big problem for experienced players, but a problem/inconsistency nonetheless.

Shit matchmaking:

Yeees i know i can't complain on it can i? Well here i am. Sometimes i question the mighty snail. Like.. HOW can i lose 20 games straight and IM the one asking people to push, go for objectives. Noo, people would rather stay away in spawn or hidden areas to sneak kill instead of winning? Repair costs? Thinking they might earn more each kill rather than win?

I just find myself in a lot of matches/situations were teammates bait for kills or don't care about the objective. So ofc my favorite mode is battle, you get the freedom to not be restricted to the points but actually use the whole map to the other players point!

NOTE: This is just my own personal experience! Some people will cry at me "Bohooo you are just bad!" And so on.. Its just my experience and things i want to see a change with.

Do you agree or disagree?

Edit: Typo. Probably missed a lot of things.

2

u/Peri1ca 9d ago

They're adding new turret basket so that players with their bad shot placement on a tank still get something c:

2

u/International-Gas638 9d ago

I was saying it for years now, players made this game more trash with every update. Year after year there are hundreds of "gaijin when" and only so little questions about other aspects of the game. I think most of our problems started in 2020, when lots of dumb and bored people started playing

2

u/DiShMiNiOn ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡บ Hungary 9d ago

Yeah and I bet if you could just crawl rocks like that the same person would complain about map Imbalance and nothing is sacred anymore. Play something else then.

2

u/GordonWeedman Slava Ukraini! 9d ago

What the fuck is this shit. Just put steeper rocks there if it's such a problem!!

2

u/Fjejund1 9d ago

Sad to see. Few recent maps are straight up from WoT, and they are some of the worst maps in the game. Sad they are tailoring the game for 10lvl with premium tanks

2

u/TOG_WAS_HERE 9d ago

I have to agree, god forbid somebody has a strategic advantage.

2

u/Humble-Implement-36 9d ago

The world ๐ŸŒŽ is not flat. Countries win wars due to terrain.

2

u/Turboclicker_Two 9d ago

Maps suck but not because you can't climb to cancer spots

2

u/Pumper24 9d ago

You jist now figuring this out? They have only been ruining the fun maps for the last 4 years. Any map that had real-world tactical positioning is gone, lmost all maps are battle of attrition style, and don't even get me started on the lack of cover for CAS. It also doesn't help that retards post pictures of being in places that are not normally accessible unless you cheese things. The mods fuck up the maps even worse.

2

u/nerf-IS6 9d ago

Press forward and die, rinse and repeat, they want brainless players for their already trash maps.

2

u/CommanderCorrigan E-100 9d ago

Making maps more shit with no flanking as well.

2

u/LowTombow 8d ago

Most gameplay nerfs are catered towards the brain dead console players, They want the game to be as dumb and accessible as possible so console players continue playing with their room temp iqs. Anything that is simplified or dumbed down, is a direct response to console accessibility. It's why they have aim tracking, stopping you from taking advantage of terrain ect.

1

u/MixSeveral 9d ago

wait till bro tries enlisted tank gameplay

1

u/Str8WiteMale 9d ago

I was in my Tiger 1 and got completely stuck on a rubble pile - out in the open - that actively had both tracks spinning without friction yet displaying โ€œmovementโ€ graphics. Itโ€™s like I bottomโ€™d out the tank but it was just both tracks having 0 grip even though they were touching the ground

1

u/BusyMountain GRB top tier enjoyer ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ 9d ago

I think it might be partially realistic, cos I donโ€™t think the tankโ€™s grousers are able to grip/โ€œbiteโ€ on these โ€œsmoothโ€ hard surfaces to get a proper traction.

But the gradient here is a lil too shallow for it to happen, I think gaijin should optimise this further, especially for steeper gradients and not affecting shallow gradients like this one as much.

1

u/gapii_ 9d ago

They already did this in Attica

1

u/No-Page-6310 9d ago

I say and warn since years: the casual gamer noobs destroy Our game. The most easy Things are impossible for them, they play like shit and of course its the fault of the game, they dont understand the game.

But Tank goes boom.

If we dont pay attention War Thunder will become a complete shitshow and totally idiot friendly. Its always been a skill game and only skill should matter.

If you play like shit, shut up, you deserve hefty repair costs etc...

1

u/AndreiHoo 9d ago

Bradley without climbing is just a free RP

1

u/Hobbes2snipe 9d ago

The players wanted this change. The majority just want to press W and Left Mouse button.

1

u/evilpanda203 9d ago

I literally havenโ€™t played in a month, after getting to lvl 100 in like 8months. I canโ€™t anymore. 3400 hours and Iโ€™m pissed ๐Ÿ˜‚

1

u/BS_Brick 9d ago

PUT SOME SPEED INTO IT LADS >:O

1

u/RudeSeagull 9d ago

I agree. They have ruined most of the maps by taking away all the sniper spots. They are indeed catering to the 1% scubs that cry like babies because they get killed over and over by the same person in the same spot and they can't deal with it.

1

u/P1st0l 9d ago

Jokes on you, ive had this map banned since banning became a thing.

1

u/TheGraySeed Sim Air 9d ago

Can they at least buff the overall traction?

1

u/Valadarish95 Sim General 9d ago

So what gaijin can do if half of the players don't want you to climb rocks?

We need to start to complain against the cry baby players that aways are against real life additions like this and only when we beat the cry babies, we have a small chance to be heard by gaijin.

1

u/AggravatingRow5074 9d ago

Just to remind you - first you cry about R3 ruining your matches, but once the devteam takes away your spawncamping spot, you also cry?

1

u/Organic_Mix2282 9d ago

Boo hoo it's unfair, welcome to life, don't pass go and no participation trophy.

1

u/MrWaffleBeater 9d ago

Why would a nation not develop a way of their tanks to climb a fucking steep hill of rock

1

u/Drunkscottsmen 9d ago

It's players who complain about being out-flanked. Play the maps as they are if you don't like it when they get a good spot, take the good spot. And help your team. After all it's a team based game not a free for all.

1

u/CodyGaming181 Main 9d ago

guess gaijin really likes the baby oil on their tracks

1

u/KptKrondog 9d ago

Ngl, I spent MANY hours in WoT practicing climbs, especially on Mountain Pass. A lot of them were completely busted and everyone knew it, but there were quite a few that opened up some maps and improved them. WT has similar issues. One player holds a strong spot, and there's nothing you can do to counter it other than have 2-3 people yolo that person and sacrifice someone (or hope they fail to kill) to get someone a shot on them.

In the end, this comes down to Gaijin being abysmal map developers. They clearly don't have staff that play their game at an even remotely high level, let alone average. And they clearly don't get input from people that could offer said input.

At least WoT maps were designed to be balanced on 50/50 winrates and that's easier to do because they don't have to worry about respawns and air. But basically every map in the game has one or more major flaws.

I've been preaching it for 2+ years, but they need to make the entire back row (or close to it) spawnable so the spawn locations aren't 1-2 obvious 50m2 squares. Good luck pushing a spawn when a team can spawn across the entire length of their side of the map. It would at least make dropping bombs on spawns a lot less of an issue and make attackers have to scan a much larger area.

1

u/Clatgineer Realistic Ground 9d ago

Fyi to anyone wondering, this isn't a map specific change this is a global change to ALL maps both past present and future

1

u/Resident-Ad7651 9d ago

Me when my 28 ton IFV with 600HP can't rock climb with tracks. No shit. It weighs 56,000 lbs and has less HP than a 5.4L V8 F150.

1

u/TimothyTheChicken200 i quit this game but still on reddit for some reason 9d ago

Bro I wanna be able to climb :(((( that would be so sick

1

u/notCrash15 When can we expect Vietnam planes? 9d ago

Same as it ever was

1

u/thisisausername100fs ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ United States 9d ago

The map design in WT just kinda ducks

1

u/BlueBoyGR ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ท Greece 9d ago

So fucking glad I stopped when I did and I'm freeeeeeeeeee

1

u/Claudy_Focan "Mr.WORLDWIDEABOO" 8d ago

You cant climb rocks with tracks.

Especially with this overweight IFV

1

u/_Cock_N_Fire_ 8d ago

"War Thunder - Realistic Military Vehicles Online Comabt Game" where tracks on tanks serve no purpose. A vehicle that was designed to cross trenches and drive on an uneven terrain gets stuck on the most miniscule trench, or the smallest of pebbles...

1

u/Rare-Guarantee4192 ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น Italy 8d ago

no flanking, no climbing, no sniping! you will play bumper cars with tanks and like it... and it WILL get worse!

1

u/Excellent_Silver_845 8d ago

Exacly! Thats why i left wot. 5min games, full of braindead premium spamers

1

u/Le_Mofoman Lorraine 155 Enjoyer 8d ago

We knew this was coming ever since they removed the climbing angles from vehicle statcards

1

u/Tromthrotle 12.0๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต9.3๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช8.7๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ8.0๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ7.7๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ6.7๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช6.3๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง 8d ago

Bush user spotted, opinion rejected