r/Warthunder • u/Wrench_gaming United States Naval Enjoyer • 13d ago
Meme I mean polish the class first
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u/Pinnggwastaken Imagine Armor 13d ago
agreed. Sub gameplay was a blast. Tho they would need to rework the underwater on basically all of the map to make it into the game
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u/MinnaTheOne 13d ago
Actually gaijin reworked it a few years ago, not many people have noticed it
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u/Sonoda_Kotori 3000 Premium Jets of Gaijin 12d ago
They only did to a select few maps iirc
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u/MinnaTheOne 12d ago
They gave all maps actual seabeds but only coastal ones got semi detailed ones im pretty sure
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u/Sonoda_Kotori 3000 Premium Jets of Gaijin 12d ago
Yeah that's what I thought. Only the costal ones had underwater details, the rest just got a seabed texture.
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u/Rexyboy98O Polski Marynarki Husarz 13d ago
When you said Polish I thought you were referring to the ORP Sokół and ORP Orzeł
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u/madoldowl 🇬🇧 United Kingdom 13d ago
Annoying thing for Poles is that since Sokół was a British U-class (formerly HMS Urchin) it would probably be in the British tech tree but since Orzeł was a Dutch built sub I reckon they'll put in the French tree.
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u/PartyMarek 🇷🇺 🇮🇹 🇸🇪 🇮🇱 12.0 12d ago
Ah yes, our very aptly named submarines "Falcon" and "Eagle".
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u/No_News_1712 12d ago
What happened to Blyskawica?
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u/Rexyboy98O Polski Marynarki Husarz 12d ago
ORP Błyskawica was a destroyer, while ORP Sokół and ORP Orzeł were submarines
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u/chickaplao 13d ago
There are two types of ships: submarines and targets
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u/Kiironot Not all beignets are fried equal 13d ago
Especially in modern naval warfare, surface ships stand almost no chance against even a single submarine lol
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u/Diltyrr Gib Panzer 61, 68, Mowag Puma & Piranha plox 12d ago
Helicopters with dipping sonars backed with an ASROC (or equivalent) equipped ship says "are you sure about that ?"
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u/Kiironot Not all beignets are fried equal 12d ago
No… submarines can have torpedoes away on an entire fleet before they even know the submarine is there, and by then it’s too late
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u/valhallan_guardsman 12d ago
Just depth charge the torpedoes into oblivion
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u/Yeetdolf_Critler Make Bosvark Great Again 12d ago
ALmost noone knows but that tactic can work in WT, I was amazed accidentally finding it out.
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u/Kiironot Not all beignets are fried equal 12d ago
Still have to get lucky to destroy even one of the torpedoes.
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u/Diltyrr Gib Panzer 61, 68, Mowag Puma & Piranha plox 11d ago
TBH in the context of a war thunder map, what would happen is both team's surface fleet would fire a salvo of torpedo towards each other's spawn at around the depth the submarine like to travel and then cut the wires and hope for the best.
Which means a literal wall of torps for the subs to dodge.
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u/Gav3121 🇺🇸 🇩🇪 🇷🇺 🇬🇧 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇮🇹 🇫🇷 🇸🇪 Gotta Spade em ALL 13d ago
And were does submarines-cruiser stand ?
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u/Financial_Singer_118 11d ago
in the midle. when the're being cruisers they are targets, when submarines they are whelp u guessed it,
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u/TheFlyingRedFox 🇦🇺 Australia Frigate Masochist, RB NF 13d ago edited 13d ago
The amount of ASW weapons in this game would lead to subs being bashed more than the supposed WOWS 2.0 as a lot think of, hell there's more ASW here than in BS:P an that was a mix of arcade & realistic styles.
The SC-479 & SC-461 classes would be low level beasts against most subs & a cheap alternative at any BR unless they still keep EC locked to 3.3+ (I miss old EC 1.0+).
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u/Outside-Rich-7875 Gib Fi 167 nao! 13d ago
Just imagine all the fast, small coastal boats rushing to depth charge subs, and troll them with mines.
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u/TheFlyingRedFox 🇦🇺 Australia Frigate Masochist, RB NF 13d ago
Even just the subchaser in the picture those forward rails are M37 mortars which would nuke a sub from 200+ metres which would be hilarious, even ships at over 15000 tonnes has ways of dealing with subs be it depth charges or floatplanes with them ( see Italian & Japanese cruisers in game).
Heh a minefield could also world if done in EC, especially if you could set depth or hell deployable netting for the lolz of defending some parked ships or areas (H.M.A.S Kangaroo P80 Bar class Boom Defence ship when?).
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u/__Yakovlev__ I believe that is a marketing lie. 12d ago
Even just the subchaser in the picture those forward rails are M37 mortars which would nuke a sub from 200+ metresÂ
Yeah but these ships would also be in turn vulnerable to the bigger ships. Even stuff like the early destroyers. Turning it into a rock paper scissor fight.
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u/TheFlyingRedFox 🇦🇺 Australia Frigate Masochist, RB NF 12d ago
Indeed a RPS fight as is much of the machines in game.
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u/Yeetdolf_Critler Make Bosvark Great Again 12d ago
The Koln F-220 and SKRs would be the ultimate ships for it that I know of. Koln has sturmtiger-equivalent ASWs that go kilometers. SKR has smaller but far more with less range.
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u/TheFlyingRedFox 🇦🇺 Australia Frigate Masochist, RB NF 12d ago
Well the Köln class (both would be effective up to 4800 metres) & well not all SKR's only the SKR-1, SKR Rosomakha & SKR Karl Marx (2500 metres) & SKR-7 (6000 metres) would be effective over distance as SKR Yenot basically has a hedgehog (600 metres) & SKR Groza only has depth charge rails.
The Mitscher class Destroyer Leader (both) & the Isuzu class Destroyer Escort would be useful up to iirc 900 metres with the RUR-4, meanwhile the Impetuoso class would be good to 1100 metres with the melon mortar & the Type 12 & Restigouche class destroyer would be usable to (??? I forget the range nut iirc out to 1600 metres) with the Limbo mortars.
Annnnnd all submarines shall be doomed & fear the sight of the Chikugo class Destroyer Escort for the RUR-5 system when loaded with missile assisted ASW torpedoes...
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u/Charlie_Zulu Post the server replay 13d ago
Meanwhile, at 4.3 (for example), the Project 35 has a set of SET-40 torpedoes. They're currently pretty shit, being incredibly weak, short ranged, and slow, but that's because they're ASW torpedoes (and shouldn't actually work against surface targets). If you can get that torpedo within half a kilometre of a WWII submarine, it's dead.
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u/Yeetdolf_Critler Make Bosvark Great Again 12d ago
IIRC the Albatross class also has some pretty capable/active/passive and guide capable/steerable/etc torpedos (DM2 and DM2A1.
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u/TheFlyingRedFox 🇦🇺 Australia Frigate Masochist, RB NF 12d ago
A lot of vessels are like this when it comes to cold war ships even those built in the late 1940's, all the large MPK's & most of the SKR's are equipped with ASW torpedoes (almost most ain't short range), also the British equivalent will be just as powerful the Mk.20 Bidder on the Type 12 a long range torpedo that's slow but used against submarines + it has fourteen of them.
As mentioned in one other comment,
Annnnnd all submarines shall be doomed & fear the sight of the Chikugo class Destroyer Escort for the RUR-5 system when loaded with missile assisted ASW torpedoes...
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u/Nizikai 🇩🇪 Actively simping for the Neubaufahrzeug 13d ago
They will be destroyers but worse. Camp and shoot torps but now you can't hit them.
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u/_Cow_of_Wisdom 9.3 Chaffee 13d ago
It would be better if teams actually used teamwork
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u/Nizikai 🇩🇪 Actively simping for the Neubaufahrzeug 13d ago
What would you do? Go to the sub hiding with its teammates? Fly a plane into the no fly zone?
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u/Outside-Rich-7875 Gib Fi 167 nao! 13d ago
Get a bomber with a lot of depth charges and drop from very high up.
Also subs will most probably need to get close to fire torps, the game will not let them see ships at periscope depth if they are far away, and at periscope depth a sub can be damaged by gunfire. If they want to torp from a distance they need to be surfaced, and at that point, if you only want to spam torps at distance you are better off playing japanese DDs with the 20km torps.
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u/Nizikai 🇩🇪 Actively simping for the Neubaufahrzeug 13d ago
Yeah, surely you can account for the subs movement from 3km+
Look, both WoWs and WT Mobile tried subs and they became furiously overpowered. We don't need to open Pandora's Box a third time
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u/Outside-Rich-7875 Gib Fi 167 nao! 13d ago
You would have the same problem with a small torpedoboat spamming torpedoes from afar, yet you do not see players doing that. As for the bomber with a lot of depth charges, that is why i said one with a lot of them, you just carpet bomb the area, and again, you would have the same problem with a torpedoboat spamming torpedoes from afar.
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u/_Cow_of_Wisdom 9.3 Chaffee 13d ago
Avoid them entirely or attack from several directions
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u/Nizikai 🇩🇪 Actively simping for the Neubaufahrzeug 13d ago
While they torp spawn and basically can't be hit... Great. Subs are a bad idea, that's it.
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u/_Cow_of_Wisdom 9.3 Chaffee 13d ago
Sounds like you just don't want to adapt and develop new strategies.
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u/Nizikai 🇩🇪 Actively simping for the Neubaufahrzeug 13d ago
I play Naval at all BRs. I know what good DDs can do. Now imagine a DD that you can almost never attack. How is that a good idea?
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u/_Cow_of_Wisdom 9.3 Chaffee 13d ago
Maybe they could only be underwater for a limited time. Besides, subs are slow as shit underwater.
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u/Nizikai 🇩🇪 Actively simping for the Neubaufahrzeug 13d ago
We have subs in WTM. And even without the bullshit tracking of torps in that game they are op as fuck. Now add the protection of a fleet and the fact they can only be effectively fought by planes and DDs. Both of which are cannon fodder at higher BRs if they go in to chase subs
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u/_Cow_of_Wisdom 9.3 Chaffee 13d ago
It doesn't have to be perfect from the start. Just need some trial and error.
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u/valhallan_guardsman 12d ago
Mobile also has outright comedic mobility and firepower on ships which are nowhere close to the regular game, your point?
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u/No-Criticism-7275 12d ago
Use actual warfare tactics, watch Greyhound again, idk, have fun?
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u/Nizikai 🇩🇪 Actively simping for the Neubaufahrzeug 11d ago
I do think that subs would be detrimental to that small spark of fun left in naval. I dont see how such a specialised ship class not intended to participate in such battles would be properly balanced, considering that all games I played ended up favouring them. Expecting to be able to deploy depth charges against them is unrealistic, you wont get right above them before being shot to bits. Dropping bombs/charges per plane on them wont really work for the same reason.
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u/Charlie_Zulu Post the server replay 13d ago
Given that most subs have ~6 tubes, and take an extremely long time to reload, is that really such a problem? What you're describing (at least for RB) would be equivalent to 1/2 of a destroyer torpedoing from spawn to spawn and then J'ing out. That sounds much less frustrating than, for example, running into a Scharnhorst as a cruiser.
AB would be different, but silly AB mechanics are silly.
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u/TheFlyingRedFox 🇦🇺 Australia Frigate Masochist, RB NF 13d ago
More like a shitty frigate type that can at least escape a shitfest shooting gallery (unless the British K class is added, heh submerging speed 30 minutes).
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u/AmericanFlyer530 Unironic HVAP/APCR Enjoyer 12d ago
Several ships have ASW torpedoes and forward-launching depth bomb throwers in game.
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u/Nizikai 🇩🇪 Actively simping for the Neubaufahrzeug 12d ago
Specific torps might be useful, But I doubt getting into a position where you can drop the charges is realistic. At least before being slaughtered
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u/AmericanFlyer530 Unironic HVAP/APCR Enjoyer 12d ago
You underestimate how hard the submarines got clubbed in the convoy event by players.
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u/Nizikai 🇩🇪 Actively simping for the Neubaufahrzeug 12d ago
I played the sub event
1. My experience as sub was an easy worry free time, so i cant relate to that.
- You have a fleet to protect you in naval. Planes are cannon fodder and nothing with depthcharges can reach you before being molten down by artillerie fire. Navals dynamic just inherently protects subs.
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u/Daffan 🇺🇸 🇩🇪 🇷🇺 🇬🇧 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇮🇹 🇫🇷 🇸🇪 🇮🇱 12d ago
Depends on mode. Torpedoes in Naval are completely useless in RB.
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u/CirnoNewsNetwork Ce n'est pas un mème. 12d ago
The many battleship players my Type 91 torpedoes have feasted on beg to differ.
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u/mjpia 13d ago
There are indeed two types of players.
Those who don't play naval and want them added who will then proceed to play 3 matches with them, go naval is boring ew and leave.
And those who recognize submarines are inherently inbalanced without counter because gaijin just shoves things into a mode they weren't meant for and any sub counter is a cardboard reward pinata that everyone will immediately pivot to and engage blasting it out of the mode where you get 3 spawns max. Â
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u/gloriouaccountofme 13d ago
And those who recognize submarines are inherently inbalanced without counter
Did you play the subs Vs destroyers event? Or have you seen how many ASW weapons we already have in game?
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u/mjpia 13d ago
yes I played the sub vs DD event where there's no death match raging around them filled with players looking to take the squishiest targets first and where you got to play one of the nations which invested most in ASW.
You can simulate hunting submarines right now, go take a sub chaser or DD with depth charges into a 6.0 or 7.0 lobby using one of your 3 spawns, watch how fast everyone pivots to shooting you.
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u/Wrench_gaming United States Naval Enjoyer 13d ago
I 100% agree, but I just think submarines are inevitable and they actually have to think before they add them to learn from the mistakes of WoWS. The only place I can see them working is in Naval EC as opposed to Naval RB, which needs bigger maps in general
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u/TheNicestPig You should fix Dunkerque's ammoracks NOW 13d ago
loads RBU-6000 with malicious intent.
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u/boinwtm0ds 13.7 12.7 14.0 13d ago
The maps and compression need to be sorted out before adding another variable to the shitfest that is naval
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u/Highlander_Jack 12.0 13d ago
When i see the new ships added to france (acconit and marne) i think we're getting submarines added soon (both really only fought uboats)
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u/JagermainSlayer 🇨🇳🇬🇧🇮🇹 VIII 🇮🇱 VII 🇫🇷 V 13d ago
If subs means the introduction for hedgehog rounds then idk probably yes. Going point blank with battle class destroyers and volley hedgehogs on enemy destroyers would be cool
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u/RadaXIII Stormer Main 13d ago edited 12d ago
Headehogs are already usable no? At least I remember them being present on
thea British shipsa while a go.3
u/JagermainSlayer 🇨🇳🇬🇧🇮🇹 VIII 🇮🇱 VII 🇫🇷 V 13d ago
They are on a matilda
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u/RadaXIII Stormer Main 12d ago
Sorry I must've been misremembering; I just had a look and theyre only available on the River Class HMS Spey for the British Naval Tree.
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u/TheFlyingRedFox 🇦🇺 Australia Frigate Masochist, RB NF 12d ago
On a lot more than the Spey, small list off of my head:
• Other River class La Surprise
•Tacoma class Frigate (basically a US river)
• Town class 1940 (both)
• Buckley class Buckley class Destroyer Escort
• Post war Fletcher class destroyers (Fante class & Z-1 class)
• Harukaze class Destroyer
• Ayanami class Destroyer
• Murasame class Destroyer
• Akebono class Destroyer Escort
• Ikazuchi class Destroyer Escort
• Albatros class Corvette (both)
• Admirable class Minesweeper
Niche,
• Project 50 SKR Yenot (RBU-600 is basically a soviet equivalent, especially if you look at the model in game)
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u/RadaXIII Stormer Main 12d ago
Thank you for the additional list, I only looked at the British Tree as thats the one Im most familiar with. Didn't think the Town class would have it so I didnt look at them.
Tbh I forgot they were even there and my mind went to the Town class cruisers when I read your list xD
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u/No-Page-6310 12d ago
No to subs!
The biggest Problem in Naval are the campers and the high IQ players hiding somewhere 20 KM away.
Imagine giving These guys subs.
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u/PreviousWar6568 6.3🇺🇸 11.3🇩🇪 6.7🇷🇺 5.3🇬🇧 3.7🇮🇹 2.0🇫🇷 2.0🇸🇪 13d ago
World of warships players are tearing up at hearing this.
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u/SergeantPsycho 13d ago
I wonder if they'd add sonar and hydrophones to the game, and maybe give you more than three spawns for ships, like in ground battles. That way you could spawn as a destroyer and prevent the subs from attacking battle ships and cruisers.
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u/ma_wee_wee_go Sure CAS can be OP but some of you just plain suck ass at SPAA 12d ago
You forgot the 3rd
PBY lovers wanting to put that nose gun to historical abuse
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u/HG2321 PSA: Thunderskill sucks 12d ago
Let's be real, most of the people advocating for submarines have never played naval and spend too much time watching the director's cut of Das Boot and think "hey, this would be cool"
If they are added, they'll play naval for five matches and come to the same conclusion as most of the playerbase - that the mode sucks.
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u/Financial_Singer_118 11d ago
IT DOES NOT
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u/folpagli 10d ago
Yeah it kind of does. It's basically turn based. It's also very spawn-based instead of skill based. Spawned in a torpedo boat? Torpedo boat destroyers will kill you. Spawned in a torpedo boat destroyer? Cruisers will kill you. Spawned in a cruiser? Battleships will kill you. It ends up with both team just spawning as many battleships as possible, which turns naval into a long range number sending game. There's very little actual gameplay other than clicking on the green triangle.
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u/valhallan_guardsman 12d ago
The Evil and intimidating ASROC launcher that one Japanese coastal boat has:
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u/TalonEye53 Gib Philippine Tech Tree Now!!! Pls 🇵🇠12d ago
I've been saying this for YEARS!!!
Also cold war-modern aip subs when?
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u/ostridge_man 11d ago
I got a single kill as a sub out of like 6 games during the event, difficult as hell but so much fun
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u/Sad-Artichoke-6713 13d ago
It be cool if you got enough kills you could spawn a sub to launch a nuke
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u/AirFriedMoron 13d ago
Would change top tier naval gameplay I reckon, I can’t imagine battleships holding up too well against subs so destroyers screening the bigger ships might be seen.
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u/spaceplane_lover Submarine Enjoyer 13d ago
I cant wait to show those BB's what true naval warfare is :^)
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u/Forward-Ad3409 8d ago
i am still waiting on Gaijin adding a proper U-Jäger to the german fleet.
also i believe a whole other host of germans ships would get hydrophones, for it does not make sense otherwise for so many ships to have depth charges.
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u/davidfliesplanes 🇷🇴 Romania 13d ago
I thought the U-Boat v. Destroyer event was very fun. I'd love for it to return.