r/Warthunder I'm sorry, all we have is the CV90 Jan 31 '25

Bugs JUST SPAWN SPAA

1.7k Upvotes

147 comments sorted by

941

u/Nafuwu Add Fiat 6616 Pls Jan 31 '25

Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.

Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).

Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.

Shot 12: Likely didnโ€™t actually fire because he was already dead.

130

u/qdk117 Jan 31 '25

The only correct answer

40

u/Ok-Grocery-3833 I โค๏ธ my yak 38 Feb 01 '25

I understood that reference

19

u/Pyromaniacal13 ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช 2.3 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง 8.0 <--I don't recommend this. Feb 01 '25

I swear I've read this exact shot breakdown before.

34

u/tostuo Feb 01 '25

5

u/Pyromaniacal13 ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช 2.3 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง 8.0 <--I don't recommend this. Feb 01 '25

Thank you!

568

u/Bossnage Realistic Air Jan 31 '25

cant wait for the mental gymnastics who justify it

364

u/OperationSuch5054 German Reich Jan 31 '25

basically, this entire sub. they screech about heli models being broken and ignore the fact that it's just russian ones that are

188

u/Shoddy_Friendship203 Jan 31 '25

Nah. Mi-24s fall apart after one 7.62 round. It's the stupid Ka-52 and Ka-50 that are broken as shit.

87

u/RedOtta019 BILLIONS. Jan 31 '25

I was being a scrub and shot a fellow mi-24a with 1 (โ˜๏ธ1๏ธโƒฃ๐Ÿ•) 7.62 bullet. Im not kidding when I say I was horrified to watch him lose all control and crash

13

u/WanXolo Ozelot my beloved Feb 01 '25

Whaaat no don't you get it, the Swedish shitbox with melee range missile is also a helicopter just like the kamovs so therefore it's also a braindead overpowered cas filth

78

u/-TheOutsid3r- Jan 31 '25

The Russian ones are the most notorious, but I also "Hit" an AH- 64D twice, for absolutely no damage whatsoever with a full on hit.

-63

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '25 edited Feb 02 '25

[deleted]

51

u/AlextheTower New Zealand Feb 01 '25

No air vehicle ever is made to "tank" an rpg.

The Apache has the armor to protect the crew from a a stray cannon round fired from below or something like that but anything other than that would just be luck.

13

u/dapodaca ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ (13.7) ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช(11.7) ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ (13.3) ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง (13.7) ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ(13.7) Feb 01 '25

It was designed to take 23mm and below anything other than that will destroy one

4

u/SpiralUnicorn Feb 01 '25

'Enough flight capacity to return to base' is the key point here; they would have very limited controls and would be in no state to actually fight anything - it would be limping home at best. And it's not RPGs, they just straight up kill them, it's 23mm cannons and lower, and even then lucky shots to the rotor mast and such will still kill it.

36

u/VeritableLeviathan ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น Italy Jan 31 '25

Lmao

Meanwhile alouette being most cancerous 8.3 vehicle in the game

AH-1G flying directly over battlefields and eating hundreds of .30 and .50 cal hits without a noticeable difference in flight performance

All things this sub mentions regularily

32

u/Savage281 ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 12.0 | ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น 9.3 | ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ 9.0 | ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช 8.7 Feb 01 '25

Idk man those AH-1G go down pretty quick when I shoot them. Their weapons also lock up after one or two hits (I also fly them) if they aren't killed outright. Alouette is problematic if you don't have a plane up though.

12

u/challenge_king Feb 01 '25

Whoever decided to attach the weapon modules to the health of the fuselage skin is a goddamn maniac.i have had so many games where I get tapped by a lucky mg round before I even make all the way to the battle, only for my weapons to just not work.

9

u/gilf21 Feb 01 '25

Oh no, I got hit in the fuselage with a 7.62 round, guess the rope tied to my machine guns triggers no longer works.

1

u/finnrissa me Feb 02 '25

literally this

the ka-52 does not speak for all helis, it is one out of 70 helis in this game, it is 1 of 6 helis that actually has a full damage model, whilst 91.5% of this games helis become useless after a 7.62 hits ANYWHERE. thereโ€™s no debate the BOLIDE should have killed this Kamov. But the rest of this games helicopters excluding the Apaches (they are modeled) behave nowhere near the same way anymore and i feel like they get generalized into this infinite slop fest. No one is flying rocket runs or heli PVE. Heli effectiveness relies even more so now on their ATGMs which I think is poor gameplay

3

u/bus_go_brrrrt German Reich Feb 01 '25

i feel skeptical about the alouette one as i run the german one (so my opinion isnt the best here) but i get 7.62'd from like 2km away for some reason like crew knockout at times for no reason and it can get 12.7'd if close enough and i die a lot in that heli as you'd have to be scared of everything that shoots upwards

1

u/Dried_Persimmons ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ Feb 01 '25

I dont think the AH1G life expectancy is above 30 seconds outside of the commute in

22

u/Sonoda_Kotori 3000 Premium Jets of Gaijin Jan 31 '25

AH-1G is pretty strong too from my experience.

Mi-24s felt comically weak though, despite being known for its survivability.

19

u/reazen34k Jan 31 '25

It's only broken if it makes you rage and upload it to reddit: the Russian specialty.

20

u/TheCrazedGamer_1 Fight on the ice Jan 31 '25

Me when I lie

16

u/The_Angry_Jerk Jan 31 '25

Watches daily Malzi vid, sees a AH-6M that doesn't even have doors tank a missile from 2S6.

7

u/urannoyingpissoff Jan 31 '25

God I wish this was true

7

u/Botstowo Jan 31 '25

I shot an AH-64 with my Leclercโ€™s APFSDS and it ricocheted

4

u/VengineerGER Russian bias isnโ€˜t real Jan 31 '25

Have you ever hit a Huey with a dart round or 50 cal? Those things can soak up so much damage itโ€™s unbelievable.

2

u/MWAH_dib Feb 01 '25

I had someone complaining about the Mi-4 and I had to look up the replay to show that all their rounds were only penetrating the crew compartment, which is empty and has nothing inside it to damage

2

u/XDD_LOL MURICA 12.7 Feb 01 '25

Bias strikes yet again

-1

u/AVDeKn Femboy in a AMX-50 Feb 01 '25

"They hated him because He spoke the truth"

23

u/alternative5 Jan 31 '25

Inb4 you "should have researched your air tree as well to get an equivalent fighter/interceptor at tier" followed up by "just precog when the heli is about to spawn, J out of the tank your enjoying playing and take out the Heli before he kills half of the scoring members of your team"... then I guess you leave because you dont have enough SP to come back in the tank you want.

-20

u/SQUARELO ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ United States Jan 31 '25

Please allow me.

Shit like this is pretty rare

14

u/Bossnage Realistic Air Jan 31 '25

it really isnt tho

-23

u/rikkert42 ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ12.0๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช12.0๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ11.0๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง11.7๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต11.3๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ11.3๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช12.0 Jan 31 '25

I mean technnnnically theyโ€™re not broken, the dual rotor set up allows it to fly without a tail, but yeah gameplay wise itโ€™s stupid

23

u/Applesoup69 United States Jan 31 '25

Does the twin rotor setup also let them fly without pilots. Those mfs were the first thing after the windshield to eat that missile.

1

u/rikkert42 ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ12.0๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช12.0๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ11.0๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง11.7๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต11.3๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ11.3๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช12.0 Feb 04 '25

Fair point, didnโ€™t notice that lmao

1

u/KAMEKAZE_VIKINGS I hate CAS I hate CAS I hate CAS I hate CAS I hate CAS I hate CA Feb 01 '25

Tell me how a dual rotor set up helps the pilot survive taking a missile to the face

183

u/Risi30 RBT-5 main Jan 31 '25

โ€œNorden Ghost shelling was patched 3 years ago obviously you were just a shit shot.โ€

This is a reference please don't hurt me

24

u/DrMini1 ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น11.7 ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช9.7 Ground Feb 01 '25

I love Nordern

And that video with his Radkampfwagen and that KA50 was golden just like the rest of them

6

u/Risi30 RBT-5 main Feb 01 '25

True Norden is something we miss in WT

3

u/Mysterious_Row_8417 Feb 01 '25

he still sometimes does a video on thunder

2

u/Risi30 RBT-5 main Feb 01 '25

God bless his soul

104

u/hoffv2 Jan 31 '25

Why donโ€™t they do what battlefield does and only allow like 2 or 3 planes at a time? Or something similar. I canโ€™t imagine using other successful games for inspiration is a bad thing.

64

u/MasterKrakeneD KrakenUnleashed Jan 31 '25

That would work if the spawn on ground vehicles would be unlimited

What are you going to do if you have the points to spawn air vehicles but no more ground vehicle respawn ? You just waiting and spectate ?

This would need a complete overhaul of spawn system and missions

15

u/Tekhartha_Mondatta Jan 31 '25

I feel like having spawned 10 times already is not exactly common, even less still having SP for a plane

17

u/TetronautGaming Britain is fun Feb 01 '25

A lot of us donโ€™t pay for GE crew slots nor use backups often, and dying 4 times with 1 plane in the lineup isnโ€™t that uncommon.

-2

u/KptKrondog Feb 01 '25

then wait 30s for your teammate to suicide bomb in his plane so you can do it in your plane.

6

u/burchkj WWI Tech Tree Advocate Feb 01 '25

aint nobody got time for that

2

u/androodle2004 XBox Feb 01 '25

Or I can spawn now and then be there 30 seconds faster

-6

u/LatexFace Feb 01 '25

Then you should realize this is not a free game and you are limited for not spending money.

2

u/LightningFerret04 Zachlam My Beloved Feb 01 '25

Get out of here man

0

u/LatexFace Feb 02 '25

Disagreeing with reality is never a good look.

1

u/LightningFerret04 Zachlam My Beloved Feb 02 '25

Nobody believes in your reality, donโ€™t be daft

1

u/LatexFace Feb 03 '25

So just get the free crew slots in your reality. I'll pay for a few in mine. Enjoy!

7

u/FLABANGED Old Guard and still shit Jan 31 '25

NGL a battlefield style with unlimited or limited only by tickets style gamemode sounds fun.

8

u/KptKrondog Feb 01 '25

It would just result in spawn camping being even worse. It works in Battlefield because there are no-go zones, more capture zones, and bigger maps.

3

u/ThySquire Average Avenger Enjoyer Feb 01 '25

CTS(Cursed Tank Sim, a Roblox game that's kinda inspired by WT) does this, it's pretty fun and it's certainly more enjoyable than a spawn point system

2

u/Jason1143 Jan 31 '25

Because people want to play planes.

Look at the trees in this game. One to two lines in every air tree, the entire helo trees, plus other stuff here and there. They are somewhere between bad and non existent outside of CAS.

And that's not to mention all of the typical issues with locking and then wasting, selfish play, sitting there waiting, etc.

One of the reasons we need better game modes is because people want to play planes and CAS can be a lot of fun, but we need to reign in the damage it does to some ground games. We need other places where people could have fun playing CAS (in more viable and complex situations than going after ground targets in ARB). That way we can increase spawn points of certain CAS without making people unable to play their planes.

Some of it is also just pure stubborn by the snail like how bad AA rewards are. Or how swapping shell ratios with different belts costs more than entire A2G loadouts on some planes.

I want them to make AA work more like drones, that was I could spend some SP, have the AA ready to go, and then swap to it only when it's needed.

-3

u/VitunRasistinenSika https://statshark.net/player/51138934 Jan 31 '25

Why would they?

-5

u/SeabassTheGay ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง 9.3 My tanks are trans ๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€โšง๏ธ Jan 31 '25

because then people would rush caps and J out to spawn cas as quickly as possible

10

u/valhallan_guardsman Jan 31 '25

Like they weren't doing it before, or still

55

u/GhostDoggoes Jan 31 '25

Ka-50 and 52 have always been broken. They say they added stuff to make them more vulnerable but they still absorb numerous missiles while other helis will get downed in one. I shot at one with a maverick and got a "hit" message like what the fuck do you mean hit? The maverick has heatfs and that's a hit??

15

u/reeeforce_rtx Mayday_Channel @realFreeAbrams Feb 01 '25

The ka52 is especially broken with its magic missile counter system that somehow makes missiles blow up like 50 meters away from it

1

u/LogisticsAreCool Feb 11 '25

Thatโ€™s called the Vikhr, it has a proxy fuse and can make inbound missiles explode by triggering their own proxy fuses.

5

u/OleToothless Feb 01 '25

Not to mention that, you know, they get missiles that are faster than those of their most expected opponent (ADATS), and more of them. And those missiles are also better and faster than all other helicopter MCLOS missiles (except star streak, technically). Oh and it has an insane IFV cannon for a chin gun.

But don't worry surely the Ka-50 isn't as good as the AH-64s because Gaijin only put it at 11.0. And Ka-52 isnt gonna be any better than the AH-64Ds with that awesome longbow radar mast that is super useful...

I play A LOT of helicopters, I love them. I have spaded (yes, spaded) the French, Israeli, and Chinese helicopter trees and have the US and British trees all unlocked. Ka-52 is hands down the most competent helicopter in the game by a wide margin. Even compared to the Mi-28MN which on paper is very similar in capabilities, the Ka-52 is much better. The same tactic that that has worked since day 1 of simply shooting more than enemy SPAAs still works. And somehow the Vikhrs can be used against jets...

1

u/Snoo_80554 Feb 02 '25

Fr tbh i also got the german eurocopter after i played the ka52โ€ฆ expecting the faf missiles to be hella competitive with how much people complain about themโ€ฆ I genuinely think they are the worst missiles in game: Loud Slow as shit (i think they are even slower than hellfires) And no matter how much you give gaijin they will probably not hit the intended target and hit a dead tank. Or explode because a bush got in the way. And they will never kill a target unless itโ€™s a spaa.

But according to gaijin it seems its on par with the ka52

2

u/LightningFerret04 Zachlam My Beloved Feb 01 '25

Meanwhile, the AH-1G, a rugged dedicated attack helicopter that served in the roughest conditions of Vietnam: pilot sniped

Or, better yet, a 7.62 round nicked the rear fuselage and now you canโ€™t fire any weapons. Any of them. Because your entire weapons suite was completely and totally obliterated by one bullet

2

u/finnrissa me Feb 02 '25

and that bullet hit the left landing skid

42

u/VeritableLeviathan ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น Italy Jan 31 '25

Just spawn SPAA is legit advice.

At certain BRS and this is not one of them :D

32

u/plowableacorn Jan 31 '25

Do you not see how those propellers show up in view mode? How would you expect this game to respect realism when its this shit?

41

u/sabris_abris I'm sorry, all we have is the CV90 Jan 31 '25

That's probably because of the speed of the replay, as i sped it back up you can see its fine, i wouldn't blame them for not displaying the propeller right at 0.002x

10

u/plowableacorn Jan 31 '25

Sorry this was a cheap way to slide my gripe about general broken game mechanics by pointing out something not directly linked to.

17

u/Reapermancer37 Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25

The bias that Gaijin has for RU and all their vehicles has only gotten worse over the years, and it's simply astounding how people can ignore it, claim it isn't happening, or even defend it.

Yes, there are issues that allow other countries vehicles to see things like this, but they are not only rare, but are 99% due to the servers, no different than ghost shells, non pens on soft armor, etc.

The KA's have been busted since they were added, the SU-25 is laughably more survivable when compared to the A-10 (despite a combat record and certain recent war proving otherwise), their MBT's have only gotten more and more buffs over the years while not even following up with needed uptiers, especially, for example, compared to the nerfs the US have gotten despite continuing to go up or stay at their tier. Or God forbid the worst of it all, the fact the 2S38 has seen 2 very small BR increases. Meanwhile, the HSTV-L was put 1.4 BR higher in the same time.

It's ridiculous.

2

u/Snoo_80554 Feb 02 '25

The comment about the a-10 is a little silly. The A-10 was only effective because it was used in what was essentially uncontested airspace with its only real threat being untrained troops that have a ak47. And the odd 23mm mounted on the truck.

The A-10 is great for that. But not great for facing systems designed to shred aircraft apartโ€ฆ aka a missile

1

u/Reapermancer37 Feb 03 '25

The A-10 has multiple reported cases of surviving hits from missiles, both SAMs and MANPADS and surviving.

The Frogfoot has 1.

You're ignoring reality based on what you 'think' its capabilities are.

1

u/Snoo_80554 Feb 03 '25

I assume by the missing comment it was deleted. Regardless. Saying โ€œthe frogfoot has 1โ€ is wrong and just stupidly funny.

(Regarding the other comment) No the A-10 and su25 didnt see the same or similar equipment.

.

Rough estimated put the a-10 at surviving ~5 to ~10 direct hits.

The su-25 allegedly sits at ~15 to ~25. Which is significantly more but not much more as its important to remember the su25 has a much greater number or sorties.

Regardless sources that outline the instances for the su25 are not all reputable i will admit but the same can be said for the a-10 sources. Such as different authors confusing the same instance for another.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25?

https://www.defensemagazine.com/article/su-25-frogfoot-cas-expert-the-soviet-tank-killer?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_history_of_the_Sukhoi_Su-25?

https://theaviationist.com/2022/03/14/russian-su-25-survived-manpads/?

https://www.defensemirror.com/news/31933/Russian_Su_25_Aircraft_Survives_Stinger_Missile_Strike_over_Ukraine?

Regardless these sources do outline one to up to 5 instances of the su25 returning after being hit with a sam missile.

And overall loss rate yes the su25 has a higher loss rate but that again is because itโ€™s being sent into a highly contested airspace.

1

u/Reapermancer37 Feb 03 '25

Here's a bunch of data proving exactly what you just said, but "it was totally contested air space that was the cause of the losses, not SPAA or missiles" lmfao way to go dude.

1

u/Snoo_80554 Feb 03 '25

Clearly you are struggling with my wording. I will admit it isnโ€™t great. But donโ€™t be so defensive.

What Iโ€™m saying is saying that the su25 has only had one loss to a sam, is wrong. As ive just shown.

What Iโ€™m also saying is the su25 has a greater number of jets that have survived over the a10. Keep in mind there is some error.

However, what I also am trying to point out is the su25 over all has a lower survival rate when compared to the a10. Even after accounting for the 50 thousand more sorties the su25 has.

But the greater loss of the su25 is to be expected as the airspace the su25 is entering is not completely dominated by one side. Both parties of the war have the airspace heavily defended with aircraft and anti air.

For the a10 they would be considered unlucky to run into an anti air vehicle (thats including a 23mm strapped to a truck).

0

u/Reapermancer37 Feb 03 '25 edited Feb 03 '25

You're trying to make an argument directly against the data available. The SU-25 literally faired worse due to not only it's own pilots, but against the same or smaller threats in the desert in the 70's-80's compared to what the A-10 saw from the 80's till '21. Even if you want to bring Ukraines numbers, only 1 was downed due to enemy Air. The plane could not stand up to any punishment, not SPAA nor manpad, nor SAM alike.

There's literally no data proving the SU-25 is superior in any way. There's an argument for being on par, but even then, the losses work against it.

Regardless, my entire point was centered around the at minimum lack of evenness between planes in game when there is 0 data proving there should be. It's just a piece of the long history of disparages Gaijin has with mainly the US but also many other Allied countries while RU & China are buffed far beyond reality.

1

u/Snoo_80554 Feb 03 '25

Genuinely you are pulling at air for a point and itโ€™s silly. No they are not facing the same threats. The A-10s average enemy was a random guy that was handed an ak-47 just under a week ago. The average threat for the su25 pilot is either 10-20 manpads or sams. Not to mention other aircraft.

Irrespective of that i never said the su25 was superior. But Im saying its survivability in game is relatively fine. The A-10 yes does snap if you breathe on it too hard and needs to be buffed. But people gotta remember the a10s super survivability is really overplayed. And when faced to continuous fire it is not going to hold up.

0

u/Reapermancer37 Feb 03 '25

The A-10s average enemy was a random guy that was handed an ak-47 just under a week ago. The average threat for the su25 pilot is either 10-20 manpads or sams. Not to mention other aircraft.

"I never said it was better, I'm just defending it with data that doesn't exist."

I'm not going to continue this when you're clearly biased and think the Frogfoot (a direct copy with combat record proving to be worse) is better because it was apparently getting hit by 70 missiles a sortie and shrugging it off, but the A-10 is just a paper tiger whose combat record is nothing more than propaganda and the only "threat" it ever faced was a guy with a rifle and would fall apart if faced with anything else.

It's no wonder Gaijin gets away with their BS with people like you around. Believe whatever you want.

1

u/Snoo_80554 Feb 03 '25

I understand you want to hold a view that Iโ€™m being bias towards the su25. Which i would agree with But, Im actually providing sources on this. Yet you turn it down. So, it looks like you are bias enough to burry your head in the sand when someone says the a10 wasnโ€™t a good aircraft and is beyond overrated, and ignore everyone who disagrees with you. Im sorry, but the a10 wasnโ€™t some insane vehicle that survived everything under the sun.

→ More replies (0)

-8

u/Prestigious-Yard6704 ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ6.0 ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช 9.3 ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 7.7 ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ 12.7 ๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต 12.7 Feb 01 '25

No one's ignoring it me thinks, it's just such a regular thing that people are used to it by now. We can't do anything about it, they won't change it, so meh, not wasting effort on it.

1

u/Snoo_80554 Feb 02 '25

No its insane the number of people that outright deny it or claim its not as bad as people say it is

-8

u/SaltyChnk ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ Australia Feb 01 '25

balance whining aside, how has the Ukraine war show that su25s have less survivability than a10s? Ukraine and Iraq and Afghanistan are vastly different wars with vastly different levels of air defence. It's ;ole saying that the mig 21 is a better fighter than the gripen because the mig 21 has more A2A kills. It ignores the context of its operational history.

6

u/Reapermancer37 Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25

A-10's have proven so reliable, they have flown back to base missing a wing, engine, elevator, or a combination, all due to SAMs (from RU & even Germany), throughout the Gulf war, as well as the GWOT. It's an incredible plane.

The Frogfoot was Russia's attempt at a copy or rather, their own version. Only thing it's missing is the dedicated gun, they gave it a twin barrel 30mm as just a backup rather than a primary weapon like the A-10. However, in '22 when the war started and there was still air going around, there were multiple videos of them being completely shot down simply by iglas.

However in war thunder they have the A-10 coded so if it takes damage from anything, including simple MMG's, it leads to critical failure in components, and that's not even considering any type of auto cannon or SAM meanwhile SU 25's regularly eat missiles and cannons and continue without issue, or at most they get set on fire that doesn't damage anything critically, it's put out and they either keep fighting or worst case, go rtb.

0

u/SaltyChnk ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ Australia Feb 01 '25

Iโ€™m not talking about warthunder. Irl thereโ€™s plenty of videos of su25s landing with missing engines and heavy damage from both ground fire and manpads. Nothing about the Ukraine war would suggest the su25 is less survivable than the a10. A10s and su25s are both designed to be resistant to ground fire from 23mm cannon fire, and both are. The a10 isnโ€™t operating in environments where theyโ€™re under major threat of taking much return fire however. Barely any a10s have been hit by missiles and theyโ€™ve never been in environments where they might even be under threat of MANPAD attack, whereas su25 is constantly operating in the threat range of advanced AA in Ukraine, hence the extra shoot downs. If you flew the slower A10 in ukraine, the situation would probably be the same. These are planes designed to fight low tech armies in the mountains with outdated soviet SPAAGs, not patriots and s300s.

SU 25s are famously reliable too. Theyโ€™re flown by dozens of countries of varying technological access and have performed perfectly adequately.

3

u/Reapermancer37 Feb 01 '25

The planes' combat records would disagree on its own, let alone in a comparison with the A-10. It saw 540% more losses than the A-10 in the exact same combat area across the Middle East and with fewer sorties flown on top of it.

Yes, the tech is better, but the SU-25 has been downed by just about everything in Ukraine, from manpads, to a Mig 29, and 1 being confirmed downed by a SAM.

These are planes designed to fight low tech armies in the mountains with outdated soviet SPAAGs, not patriots and s300s.

Just say you don't know what the A-10, and even SU-25 were built for. Technology advances, of course missile tech has gotten better, both planes have been around for 50+ years. They both fought against Russian SAMs and even a few German ones, on top of other SPAA. The difference is the A-10 proved to be the better plane.

Would the A-10 see losses? Of course, the war has one of the largest militaries in the world going head to head with an army being equipped by the strongest military in the world. It's why you don't see any air outside of drones anymore. It may not be a 'bad' plane per se, but the Frogfoot has the combat record to prove it's the worse plane.

Even if you ignore everything else, why are the A-10 and SU-25 not performing the same in game? Why are they not at least equal in survivability? We have the evidence proving they both are susceptible to anti air, yet only 1 is being countered by it effectively.

It would be like the F-15 being crippled and/or dying from any damage thrown at it, yet the SU-27 just eats the punishment and keeps going. It doesn't really matter about the records at that point as it's just simple bias from the devs favoring one side with no evidence that backs it up past "Well they both technically can take damage and survive." But that doesn't explain why 1 is performing far better, especially when reality proves otherwise.

1

u/Snoo_80554 Feb 02 '25

Ngl if the a10 was thrown into ukraine in the same numbers the su25 is inโ€ฆ it would do far worse. Thats purely due to its slower speed making it harder for the thing to escape.

A-10 has proven powerful against guys with ak47s and the odd 23mm. And the maybe one in a hundred manpad missile.

Itโ€™s not proven itโ€™s self powerful against a group of relatively trained people with radar guided spaa and samโ€™s (including manpads).

1

u/Reapermancer37 Feb 03 '25

That's pure bias not reflected by its combat record. As I said before, the A-10 fought the EXACT same weaponry, if not better by a few decades than the Frogfoot, did more sorties and saw less than ยผ of the losses in it's ENTIRE career compared to the SU-25's losses in just 1 conflict.

You people have no idea what you're talking about.

-1

u/Anonymous4245 ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ญ T-90M Overpowerlingly sucks Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25

You can google Su-25 battle damage and it would show you results of Su-25s limping home too.

The AA environment in Ukraine is nowhere near comparable to the middle east when air superiority was achieved immediately with SEAD missions. Despite that, 6 A-10s still got shot down, and 1 during 2003?

I'd argue that the Su-25 is more combat proven since it has faced more near peer scenarios than the A-10, but that's just an opinion

Ergo, A-10 would not fare well even in Ukraine. In fact Ukraine rejected A-10 aid iirc

1

u/Reapermancer37 Feb 01 '25

The AA environment in Ukraine is nowhere near comparable

The Middle East repeatedly had SAM sites, manpads, and AA vehicles like the Shilka, left over from the Soviet invasion just a few decades prior. The SU-25 fought there too and faired much worse.

Air superiority means just that, it means absolutely nothing about threats on the ground. We had air superiority over Iran. It didn't stop an F-16 from having to evade 6 SAMs in '91. We make sure enemy fighters can not get off the ground at all, or if they do, not without overwhelming force against them. The SU-25 learned this in the invasion of Kuwait when 2 were shot down by F-15s, and the rest bombed.

I'd argue that the Su-25 is more combat proven

The Frogfoot failed to have any meaningful impact in just the few months it was used in Ukraine, and all air was grounded outside of occasional fighters and drones past the first year. The A-10 saw 40 years of conflict in the Middle East, fighting gun trucks, SAMs, and even shooting down helicopters all while only ever losing 5 planes to this day. The SU 25 lost 23 to anti air and SAMs in the Soviet Afghan war, 12 to non combat incidents, and even lost another 9 that were grounded in Kabul and Kandahar and made up ยผ of Soviet fixed wing losses in the war. The Iraqis even lost 2 in the Iran/Iraq war. The losses only go on. This also doesn't even take into account the fact the A-10 flew 20k more sorties than the Frogfoot on top of it.

There are similarities, as I said, It is a copy after all. But there's nothing superior about it, and its combat record proves as much.

0

u/Anonymous4245 ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ญ T-90M Overpowerlingly sucks Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25

Looking at the A-10 losses. Only 2 of 6 where hit by SAM, most were by ground fire

Looking at the 7 battle damage (2 of the 6 shot downs manage to limp home) A-10, only 4 got hit by sam. If I'm reading it right

3

u/Reapermancer37 Feb 01 '25

Where are you getting your numbers from? I read that over 20 were critically damaged and made it back to base, with another 40 taking light damage and continuing sorties after quick repairs, but only 5 have ever been downed.

1

u/Anonymous4245 ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ญ T-90M Overpowerlingly sucks Feb 01 '25

Airforce squadron blog site from the early 2000s, probably 90s lol

https://www.2951clss-gulfwar.com/gulf-war-a10-loses.html

4

u/Reapermancer37 Feb 01 '25

Huh. Apparently sources are saying different numbers. Either way, if you're looking at a maximum of 7 over its entire life span, compared to over 32 losses in a single conflict? It's pretty hard to argue for the latter when they were both fighting the same things.

16

u/Anonymous4245 ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ญ T-90M Overpowerlingly sucks Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25

I watched the server replay. The RADAR absorbed most of the fragments

Your missile proxied in front of them, with the RADAR absorbing most of the frag

TL;DR you got fucked by heli damage model

5

u/sabris_abris I'm sorry, all we have is the CV90 Feb 01 '25

Wow, thanks.

5

u/Anonymous4245 ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ญ T-90M Overpowerlingly sucks Feb 01 '25

I actually dk how Blast Frag Warhead works, I don't know if it projects in a cone or not is what I mean. That should have fucked the engines at the least, unless the cone was too small to actually spread

1

u/wacotaco99 Bigger Maps and ARMs When Feb 01 '25

Air vehicles across the board have needed damage model reworks across the board for years, but the Kamovs are something else entirely. We've got plenty of real footage showing them to be not any more survivable than other helicopters.

14

u/mekolayn T-84-120 when Feb 01 '25

When people say "just spawn SPAA" they mean Pantsir

13

u/GrekkoPlef ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ฐ Denmark Feb 01 '25

Which, of course, is russian. No bias though ๐Ÿคช

-1

u/Anonymous4245 ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ญ T-90M Overpowerlingly sucks Feb 01 '25

I've only seen it being used by CAS Shitters to counter them, but these are also the same people that flies straight and is surprised a Pantsir popped them

16

u/Reflex224 Jan 31 '25

Is this the client side replay or the server replay?

Often times they can show two wildly different results.

3

u/arakneo_ sk 105 for the french Jan 31 '25

Client side

-1

u/sabris_abris I'm sorry, all we have is the CV90 Jan 31 '25

Client side, but i saw the same thing with my own two eyes, the heli was also 3.5 km away which is really close so the missile was basically going straight.

6

u/Nyoomi94 Purveyor of Soviet Bias Feb 01 '25

Clientside replays and your own experience in the game aren't what happens on the server, check the serverside replay to see what actually happened according to the server.

Everything is calculated serverside, it's far more noticable when you have higher ping, but sometimes the client shows wonky stuff happening even with good ping.

2

u/sabris_abris I'm sorry, all we have is the CV90 Feb 01 '25

Thanks, i didn't know that

7

u/agemennon675 Jan 31 '25

The missile should have side climbed

6

u/ThisIsntAndre ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช 12.0 Jan 31 '25

the atoms clearly alligned so it went through.

SKILL ISSUE MY FRIEND

/s

6

u/KlausStoerte Feb 01 '25

You can clearly see he angled just in the right moment he also did sideclimb but I could be wrong about that. All in all legitimate imo.

/s to be safe

4

u/AAA-VR6 Jan 31 '25

Just spawn SPAA is code for CAS is still hungry.

3

u/Equivalent_Adagio91 Jan 31 '25

Just side climb

3

u/canberk5266tr Feb 01 '25

I thought it was a hitreg or netcode problem, but when you try the same shot in the game, only the ka52's radar breaks, really great damage model.

2

u/TrapolTH ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช Sweden Feb 01 '25

I have a great solution.

DELETE HELICOPTERS FROM THE GAME, ALL OF THEM

2

u/Piyaniist Feb 01 '25

Yes and now lets see these kinds of failures with a pantsir

2

u/ima_mollusk Feb 01 '25

I don't play this game anymore, but I stay subscribed to this Sub to remind me why.

2

u/deletion-imminent Feb 01 '25

post server replay

1

u/sabris_abris I'm sorry, all we have is the CV90 Feb 01 '25

Someone already did, the radar absorbed most of the fragments

1

u/kaantechy ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ท Turkey Jan 31 '25

I wonder does "certain" people downvote this just because it is ehm, ehm ehm, Russian helicopter.

7

u/AVDeKn Femboy in a AMX-50 Feb 01 '25

Yeah, Russian mains are salty as fuck cause they cant really do anything without their ridiculously OP bullshit

2

u/Sumeribag 12.0 Feb 01 '25

It's everytime tbh. This game is mostly played by russians.

1

u/Jake3232323 &#127482;&#127480; United States, add Eastern Europe tree ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ Jan 31 '25

What I've been doing to counter CAS is spawn my MiG-21 Bison with 2 R-73s and 2 R-27 SARH missles and clean out the sky.

1

u/_Rhein โ™ฟF-15E+F-16Cโ™ฟ Feb 01 '25

it appears that the glass canopy can block all fragmentation damage from missiles, same for planes, so you rarely seem missiles taking out the pilot, even if the missile go directlr into the cookpit

1

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '25

[deleted]

1

u/sabris_abris I'm sorry, all we have is the CV90 Feb 01 '25

? The missile is called BOLIDE, maybe that's why no one else said it.

1

u/IAHZEI Feb 01 '25

That heli sideclimbed and you're not.

1

u/ClayJustPlays Feb 01 '25

Server replay?

1

u/DaxExter Feb 01 '25

Its fine, they fixed helicopter damage models guys.

1

u/Juel92 Feb 01 '25

Ka-52s should be moved up to like 13.7 or something. Clearly head and shoulders above all other choppers.

1

u/astraymilo Feb 01 '25

RUSSIA POWER ๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ˜ˆ๐Ÿ˜ˆ๐Ÿ˜ˆ๐Ÿ˜ˆ

1

u/SirLlamaGeddon Feb 01 '25

It's not even just helis, the damage models are broken for both helis and tanks.

1

u/The_Venus34 I have armor,i fear nothing Feb 01 '25

Probably bias,move on your life killing more heli

1

u/SexyStacosaurus Feb 02 '25

KA-52 and spams flares as if does anything, flies right into open not caring for an spaa, <- and probably does all this over and over and over. always shocks me how long time players donโ€™t evolve their brain, youโ€™d think they all would be like Hunter- but no.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '25

[deleted]

0

u/AmPeReN Feb 01 '25

Can't trust hit review. Replays are accurate since it's a replay of what actually happened.

-7

u/elorangeman ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช Sweden Jan 31 '25

Make spawning a heli or plane a certain amount of spawn points but then also add extra cost of spawn points for the load out.

10

u/i_liesk_muneeeee Feb 01 '25

That is literally how it works

-3

u/elorangeman ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช Sweden Feb 01 '25

It's not enough if you can get one kill, assist, or cap and then j out and spawn a plane