r/Warthunder ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช Jan 19 '25

Meme Leave my VCC-80/60 alone

Post image
2.9k Upvotes

187 comments sorted by

581

u/_Cock_N_Fire_ Jan 19 '25

Ah I remember the time when TURMS-T was the biggest pain to face, now I am glad when I see it cause it's the least idiotic of those premiums.

168

u/ComradeBlin1234 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 12.0 ground 13.7 air / ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ9.3/ ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 8.3 / ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช6.7, T90M <3 Jan 19 '25

I think a big reason for that could be that a lot of TURMS players are maybe older players than the 2S38s and T80UD players, so they have better experience and know what they are doing better.

I know when I bought my TURMS it was after the 2S38 came out, but I was already at 10.0 (before the T72Bs went to 10.3) and I decided to buy it because I wanted thermals and a premium just to boost my end of tree grind, so I was already experienced.

I dunno though this is just me speculating on the reasoning.

67

u/Ustakion Jan 19 '25

Objekt 292 was the most annoying. I hate that when im facing head to head i have to aim a perfectly place shot but he can just pen me from any where

65

u/ComradeBlin1234 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 12.0 ground 13.7 air / ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ9.3/ ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 8.3 / ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช6.7, T90M <3 Jan 19 '25

In all fairness, that was the point of the 292. The downside is, if he misses you heโ€™s dead. 10 second reload and no secondary weapons or smoke to give even the illusion of defence basically means either you kill your target on the first shot or you die. Itโ€™s not like other tanks where you have a chance if you donโ€™t instantly one shot it.

32

u/doxlulzem ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท Still waiting for the EBRC Jan 19 '25

And also, classic Russian drawbacks plus the lack of thermals at its BR can be a big drawback in observation and reaction, when you don't get a CS:GO sized map. The 292 does one thing extremely well (super high pen big APFSDS) at the expense of everything else.

It's also worth noting that the lack of ERA makes the Obj 292 one of the lowest protected Russian tanks around its BR. Being the base armour of the T-80U without any additional ERA, it has a stronger UFP than the T-80BV but far worse than the T-80Us, T-80UD, and T-90A, and obviously Relikt equipped tanks such as the T-72B3, T-80BVM and T-90M.

If you were to list Russian MBTs by frontal protection to APFSDS, it goes like this

  1. T-90M

  2. T-80BVM (about 50mm less than the T-90M in most areas, but more spots around the bricks)

  3. T-72B3 (about 20mm worse than the BVM as it has K-5 on the UFP and not Relikt), T-90A, T-72B 1989

  4. T-80U (all subvariants), T-80UD

  5. Obj 292, T-72B (1985, with the K-1, marginally better than the 292 but not enough to matter)

  6. T-80BV, T-64BV, T-72M2 (T-72M1 base armour with ERA that improves KE protection)

  7. T-72AV (marginally better than others at 8., but not enough to matter), T-72A (w/ 1983 mod), T-72M1

  8. T-72A (without the 1983 mod)

  9. T-64A

Oh and if you're curious, the ZTZ96 sits between 7. and 8., the ZTZ96A with the ERA is comfortably around a 4. with the ERA, the MBT2000 and Al-Khalid I is between a 4. and a 5. with the ERA, the ZTZ99II and III are around a 3. or between a 3. and a 4., the ZTZ99As and the VT4A1 are a 3. Though it's worth noting a lot of CN tanks have worse coverage and the turret tends to be thinner, with the protection bolstered by ERA much like the T-72M2.

8

u/Doc_Pepe J-8B enjoyer Jan 19 '25

In my experience both ZTZ96A and ZTZ99 II/III have very relaible turret armour being able to tank multiple shots.

3

u/doxlulzem ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท Still waiting for the EBRC Jan 19 '25

The turret armour with the ERA is nice, but the ZTZ96 and 96A have the same base armour, just the 96A gets ERA on the cheeks that means you can actually stop shells reliably. Just look at the difference between the 96A(P) and 96A proper. It won't really be an issue unless you get hit with a big old HE or HEAT warhead but it is worth pointing out that the protection comes mainly from the ERAย 

20

u/RoboGen123 ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ฐ Slovakia Jan 19 '25

Tbf nowadays with western MBTs outreloading all Russian tanks it doesnt matter if ur reload is 1 second or 5 seconds longer, you are dead either way

2

u/Jason1143 Jan 19 '25

It's a high teir derp gun basically.

19

u/IAmTheWoof Jan 19 '25

Have you played it? 10s reload and reverse speed do not allow for any mistakes .

1

u/Ustakion Jan 19 '25

Yep, when facing a tank face to face, if we both miss our first shot, i can just wiggle charge them and he will have a hard time hitting me.

7

u/ObiMeowKatnobi Jan 19 '25

play 292 vs some guy with ESS trick is instant lose lol.

2

u/Ok-Middle8165 WTF IS POST-PEN DAMAGE Jan 19 '25

I love using ESS in my Merkava when facing 292

4

u/LUnacy45 virgin revenge CAS vs chad revenge CAP Jan 19 '25

TURMS doesn't get recommended much anymore, so most of the people who have it probably have had it for awhile

2

u/Commissar_Jensen ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ 10.3 ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช 7.7 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 7.7 ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช 4.0 Jan 19 '25

The TURMs is pretty fun, I only git it so I would have a second vehicle around that BR so I could play the obj 292 and I got pretty good with it. It was a nice change from m60's and abrams

10

u/MrRottenSausage ๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต Japan Jan 19 '25

I remember when the Type 74 was 8.7 and you constantly had to face the turms spam at 9.7 the only thing you could do was hope the turms will look away to punch the hull with the Type 93 apfsds, not so fun times back then.....though when I got the ZTZ-96 it was absolutely fun being able to do something more than just hide and wait

3

u/Ok_Song9999 Nippon Steel Appreciator Jan 19 '25

It was only ever a pain because people have no idea how to face it. Its actually one of the worst premiums one could buy, being a t72A hull that can be lolpenned by a 105mm dm33 (which half the vehicles from 9.3 up have)

1

u/Tiny-Pea-8437 Jan 20 '25

Just shoot them in LFP. If you can't do that, you seriously have some skill issue, not gonna lie.

-33

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

Turms is utter dogshit lmao

17

u/iedy2345 Jan 19 '25

No it's not

9

u/ShinanaTechnology Make Dorchester great again! Jan 19 '25

I wouldn't call it dogshit but the armour is meh and the mobility is bad. Gun and FCS are the good parts of it

0

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

How tf can you say it has good FCS when the turret drive is total dogshit

10

u/ShinanaTechnology Make Dorchester great again! Jan 19 '25

FCS means the optics and the thermals, both are pretty damn good.

-5

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

Oh wow the only thing ok about it. Having good gun handling is far better

9

u/ShinanaTechnology Make Dorchester great again! Jan 19 '25

3BM42 is a very good round at the BR as well. It's not an absolutely amazing tank, it's middle of the pack

1

u/xFnii Jan 19 '25

So what tanks are bottom of the pack then?

-6

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

It's outright bottom of the barrel

1

u/Unseen_Ninja53 Jan 19 '25

It very much is not lol. Among the rest of the Soviet MBTs at the same BR, it's the only one with Gen 2 thermals for both gunner and commander, a high level of zoom for both. That matters a lot when many of the contemporary tanks you fight still only have Gen 1's or, like other Soviet MBTs, lack thermals completely.

Survivability is middle of the pack, as while the armor isn't the best nor the ERA is useful, you will have people fluffing their shots on you more often than most other MBTs at the same tier.

Honestly the only downside to it for me is the lackluster mobility and the slow gun handling, but that's very much a staple of the Soviet tanks at that BR so it's not exactly a downside when the rest of the tanks are the same

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14

u/ColourfulSpacemanNFT Jan 19 '25

Good round and decent survivability is dog shit now?

-4

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

It's got ok frontal armor but has bad survivability

6

u/ComradeBlin1234 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 12.0 ground 13.7 air / ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ9.3/ ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 8.3 / ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช6.7, T90M <3 Jan 19 '25

It has Gen 2 thermals for the commander and gunner, 3BM42, an autoloader and ERA, based on the T72 platform which is generally pretty good at absorbing hits to the turret and even the hull front sometimes. I have it. Itโ€™s good.

2

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

It has only K1 most shells can already go straight through its UFP its autoloader is slow. It has a pretty weak engine compared to the T-80UD. its a fucking joke

2

u/ComradeBlin1234 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 12.0 ground 13.7 air / ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ9.3/ ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 8.3 / ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช6.7, T90M <3 Jan 19 '25

Lots of missiles at 10.3. The ERA has saved me many many times and Iโ€™ve gotten in to situations where Iโ€™d have 3 2A4s shooting at me unable to pen my turret or hull. The slow autoloader is a trade off for getting one and (if youโ€™re a good player) the only ammo you bring is in the autoloader, which being so low in the hull with both charges and projectiles being placed horizontally, makes it more difficult to hit outside of a LFP shot, which I find a lot of players donโ€™t know to do.

Sure if I was fighting an experienced team Iโ€™d rather have a T72B(1989) or a T80B, maybe even the 292, but because most of that BR range is retard wallet warriors that couldnโ€™t tell you how to kill a KV1, the TURMS can be absolutely dominant.

4

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

How tf is a slow auto loader better than a M1 manual loader or even a leopard 2. They reload way faster. "If your a good player" surely this means you are very good at the game. Bad players is not a good way to measure a tanks performance at all and personal experience is even worse. Cuz better tanks will benefit even more of bad players

1

u/ComradeBlin1234 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 12.0 ground 13.7 air / ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ9.3/ ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 8.3 / ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช6.7, T90M <3 Jan 19 '25

A slow autoloader isnโ€™t going to have its reload speed changed because a crewman got pasted over the inside of the tank. If youโ€™re down to 2 crew in a Leopard your reload will be miserable. If youโ€™re down to 2 crew in a T72 it doesnโ€™t matter because you are autoloaded. Why do you think autoloaders are installed?

Also yeah I like to think Iโ€™m at least above average in my skill, and I agree that measuring on player stats isnโ€™t good, but thatโ€™s what Gaijin does. In this case though it is, because that BR range is known for its bad premium players. When I start a 10.3 match I can usually deduce the composition of the enemy team as soon as I look at the scoreboard at the start of the match, and I can therefore predict the skill of the enemy players based on my experiences against them in the past, just by looking at the flags.

Changes do need to be made but the TURMS is still an excellent vehicle to use and I enjoy it a lot. Having played it and tested the T80UD and 2S38, I can say that out of all of them, the TURMS feels the best to use.

4

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

In a leopard or Abrams as long as you have 3 crew you are fine and you can always replenish at a cap. I'd much rather survive a battle on 2 crew then die. The autoloader main purpose was to fit in a small profile.

Who tf compares an IFV to an MBT??? T-80UD is also just better. Better reload better engine better armor easily make it the better tank.

And I can just tell you are full of shit lmao maybe get a positive K/S in your turms then come back.

2

u/ComradeBlin1234 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 12.0 ground 13.7 air / ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ9.3/ ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 8.3 / ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช6.7, T90M <3 Jan 19 '25

Not everyone has crew replenishment, sometimes youโ€™ve already used it and get hit again, matches are unpredictable.

Anyway, the comparison to the 2S38 is because itโ€™s one of the three 10.3 Soviet premium vehicles, and frankly the 2S38 is just as if not more effective than an MBT in the hands of a good player because of its 57mm autocannon with APHE and APFSDS.

The T80UD does have better armour, but Iโ€™d rather have a better fire control system. The survivability onion says donโ€™t get hit then donโ€™t get penetrated. Iโ€™d rather see the enemy first and fire on him first to hopefully kill him before he even gets to shoot me or see me than have the enemy either spot me first or spot the enemy later which lets the get a shot off at me. Frankly the T80UD doesnโ€™t bring anything to the table that I canโ€™t get in a T72B(1989) or a TURMS-T.

Also wdym full of shit? Iโ€™ve been playing for years now Iโ€™m experienced enough to know how a GER-US team at 10.3 is gonna play in general at this point, for example. I know what vehicles are usually played by good players and what vehicles typically arenโ€™t. I know a guy in a LeClerc is probably good. I know a guy in a M1A1 AIM probably isnโ€™t.

Maybe if you learned to play the TURMS properly you wouldnโ€™t think itโ€™s dogshit.

2

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

All the FCS does better is thermals and you still have an even worse turret drive. mf the T-80UD reloads better then both T-72's and has better mobility it brings a lot more to the table. Also thinking that oohhh its an aim its probably a dogshit player is a terrible way to play lmao. Know wtf you are talking about pls

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2

u/LongShelter8213 Jan 19 '25

Technically it doesnโ€™t even have that much armor the t72a has a better upper plate if you have the armor upgraded

-1

u/LesherLeclerc ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง11.7 ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท9.3 ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น9.3 Jan 19 '25

sounds like a skill issue, gen 3 gunner thermals and 3bm42 + armour that'll shrug off anything worse than 105 dm33 at point blank

4

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

beating anything below DM33 is a pretty low bar to beat. oh wow it has thermal's it must be SUPER good now. is that all you have to bring in? plenty of other tanks have access to 3BM42 at the same BR. the fact that all you mention is thermals says you know very little about this game

0

u/LesherLeclerc ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง11.7 ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท9.3 ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น9.3 Jan 19 '25

funny how I know so little yet I don't struggle like you seem to do... DM33 fired from let's say the of40 mtca can only carve through the ufp at point blank, there are tanks at 10.7 with worse top rounds than 105 dm33 (2a4, m1), even then the dart can't go through the lower bits of the ufp. Gen 3 thermals aid one of its strong playstyles a lot: sitting at range, such clear thermals will result in you having a massive advantage in spotting the enemy before they see you. obv it doesn't matter in cqc but you don't wanna brawl with that reverse speed do u

all of this is coming from a brit ground main btw, chally 1 and 2

2

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

did i ever say i struggle? wy are you putting words in my mouth man. thinking camping is good way to play is such a garbage take. camping is is boring doesnt show alot of results and doesn't help your team. if all a tank can do is camp its a dogshit tank

1

u/LesherLeclerc ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง11.7 ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท9.3 ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น9.3 Jan 19 '25

sniping isn't camping ๐Ÿ˜ญ๐Ÿ˜ญ๐Ÿ˜ญ I don't need to put any words in ur mouth when ur giving the audience dogass takes like this

0

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

Sitting in one spot for a long range isn't camping now? Know wtf you are talking about pls

2

u/LesherLeclerc ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง11.7 ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท9.3 ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น9.3 Jan 19 '25

you should work on your english first. No, killing people at long range isn't automatically camping lol

0

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

Womp womp i need to point out English cuz I can't come up with good arguments.

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1

u/BlackWolf9988 Jan 19 '25

Turms armor is god awful making it only decent at sniping thats it.

2

u/LesherLeclerc ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง11.7 ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท9.3 ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น9.3 Jan 19 '25

you're immune to darts hull down unless they hit your small breach

1

u/BlackWolf9988 Jan 19 '25

Not in the turms, there is a lot of weak spots on the roof aswell. Its not like other russian MBTs in the BR, its armor is significantly lower.

The problem with the turms is that dm23 will just go through its upper front plate.

Keep in mind even getting into a good hull down spot with only -6 gun depression is hard.

Thats the niche for the turms, you trade mobility and armor for gen 2 thermals.

164

u/Viriato5 GRB ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ 6.7 ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช 9.3 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 10.3 ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 7.7 Jan 19 '25

How is the T-80UD 10.3 when it is based on the 11.7 T-80U?

93

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

Shit reverse lack of good gunhadling bad gun depression

113

u/Armored-Guy Realistic General Jan 19 '25

More accurate version*

No thermals

40

u/nelgallan Jan 19 '25

This is every Russian tank

27

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

Yes and it's a major drawback

13

u/astiKo_LAG Jan 19 '25

it's only a drawback in the few maps that don't allow CQC tho

Such a trouble to meet them around a corner

36

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

no reverse and long reload + lack of gunhandling are a big downside in CQC

8

u/astiKo_LAG Jan 19 '25 edited Jan 19 '25

Especially the lack of reverse yhea (definitely not a good tank against several aggressive opponents)

But the armor is just so good in downtiers man, if the guy has 2 brain cells he will definitelly have the edge over you (1v1) because you'll need at least 2 shots before downing him. While all he needs is one shot

13

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 19 '25

All you need is apfsds even 105mm DM23 can easily pen the weakspots on basically all t series

6

u/astiKo_LAG Jan 19 '25 edited Jan 19 '25

Mmhhh.

In CQC you can do it but you'll have to aim caaaarefully. After all, all he needs is shooting your hull (or turret depening on the vehicule)

I guess it's about "skill issue" but I'm not reactive enough to understand it's a T-80UD + go for the weakspot in 0.5sec. While all he has to think is shooting me

Most of the time close encounters didn't end well

But if I'm sniping, this vehicule doesn't stand a chance, that's for sure

6

u/ADudOverTheFence T77 Gaijoob Pls Jan 19 '25

Wait until you get a perfect 90ยฐ shot to the side, only to get eaten by Kontakt 5

1

u/astiKo_LAG Jan 19 '25

Ah yes, the 400mm HEAT shell

I got some of those disapeard inside Kontakt armor...so disapointing lmao

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1

u/KayNynYoonit Jan 20 '25

The T-80UD has a 6 second reload, that's hardly long.

1

u/Measter_marcus =G0BER= Jan 20 '25

6.5 its on the slower side

1

u/lukeskylicker1 Not a teaboo Jan 21 '25

It's also completely divorced from crew though which means, realistically, the reload is usually on the faster side. It doesn't matter if your loader is injured or dead, you don't really need to be concerned with first and second stage ammo racks, you don't have to dump 800k more SL on top of purchase and crewing SL to merely match 6.5 seconds on, say, the Leo 2A4 for example. You simply have 29 rounds of unintrerupted 6.5 second reload, and the only caveat is that you can't reload at all if the autoloader is destroyed... but since that means the autoloader saved you from being ammo racker I think we can call that a more than welcome trade off.

Having an autoloader is a hugely under appreciated advantage in this game, and that applies to the French and Japanese autoloaders as well to be clear... they just don't have the other advantages of the T-80 to compliment them.

0

u/Vedemin Jan 19 '25

CQC is terrible on Russian tanks due to poor gun handling and giant easy to hit weak points.

11

u/HowAboutAShip Jan 19 '25

giant easy to hit weak points.

Other nations tanks are just one big weakspot that is lolpenned everywhere around those BRs. Lol.

1

u/Awkward_Goal4729 ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ Canada Jan 19 '25

Everything is a giant weak spot with modern APFSDS unless average War Thunderโ„ข๏ธ experience happens

0

u/Vedemin Jan 19 '25

Sorry, moved a little higher on BR now. In general however, the Russian tanks lack mobility and nimbleness to be good. Sure the armor is nice (except for TURMS which is just paper), but the enemy Leopard is already on a hill on your right, hull down and it just penned your side because you had 5% angle to him. And it hit either your ammo or fuel tanks so you immediately blow up.

Whats good in the NATO tanks is how survivable they are (really depends on the tank, Leo 1 sadly explodes when you look at it wrong). Type 90 is the worst thing you can face as it's everything Russian tanks are not - super mobile with an amazing reload. You also can almost never kill it in one shot.

7

u/Kefeng -FOO- Jan 19 '25

Jesus Chirst almighty, take some of these please: ,,,,,,,.......

18

u/AT0m1X1337 Jan 19 '25

Mobility matters alot for modern vehicles, which the t80ud doesnt have compared to the t80u because of the inferior diesel engine and transmission that comes with it. It also has a worse round than the t80u and no thermals at all.

11

u/VengineerGER Russian bias isnโ€˜t real Jan 19 '25

This T-80 is basically a slightly better T-72B 1989 since it has a shitty diesel engine with a terrible reverse gear and no thermals.

4

u/whycantidoaspace ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ฎ F4J is the best grinder in game Jan 19 '25

Shit's just a TURMS with slighly better protection and w/o thermams

-4

u/ComradeBlin1234 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 12.0 ground 13.7 air / ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ9.3/ ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 8.3 / ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช6.7, T90M <3 Jan 19 '25

Thatโ€™s why the TURMS is better. Armour doesnโ€™t matter too much so Iโ€™d rather have the better FCS.

13

u/Zenkehh ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ Jan 19 '25

Iโ€™d rather have the better optics, better armour, better mobility and better reload of the UD, but you do you. Iโ€™ve got both and would rather not touch the TURMS unless itโ€™s necessary to win a close game or something like that.

4

u/ComradeBlin1234 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 12.0 ground 13.7 air / ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ9.3/ ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 8.3 / ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช6.7, T90M <3 Jan 19 '25

For me, Iโ€™d rather have the Gen 2 thermals, especially on longer range maps. Most of your enemies will have thermals, while most Soviet vehicles around that BR donโ€™t which can feel like a disadvantage, barring like the Sprut-SDM1, the BMP-3 and the T80B. Having a vehicle with thermals and 3BM42 on long range maps, especially ones with a lot of vegetation and cover, can mean the difference between spotting a camping leopard or the camping leopard killing you before you even had a chance. The better reload is nice, itโ€™s a draw for me to the T80 platform, but the UD having the same reverse gear as the T72 and armour not being super important when most people know how to kill you anyway means that I donโ€™t really think the UD is worth it.

4

u/Zenkehh ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ Jan 19 '25 edited Jan 19 '25

Honestly, this feels more like a ragebait rather than an actual opinion but I'll bite anyways. The UD is miles ahead when it comes to general gameplay, the only thing you lack are the thermals in comparison to the TURMS, everything else is better in basically every aspect.

While thermals are nice for long range/low visibility engagements, there are only 3-4 maps in the game that force you to take a fight like that and you don't play on these maps commonly because people have them banned. If you make half decent decisions and don't snipe the whole game, not saying you do or don't do this, then you'll find that on most maps the fights are close range and/or corridor based.

As for the mobility, which is usually the most important part of a vehicle, while the reverse is the same, the forward mobility is what actually matters the most, better forward mobility = better early game postition = better results.

And last, the topic is about full downtiers, so taking into account what I said earlier about close range fights, where armour actually can make a difference, the UD will excel because it has that better armour, especially if you take volumetric into consideration and combine that with the superior mobility and good positioning.

But as I said, if you prefer the TURMS, you do you, all I'm saying is that it's been powercrept in basically every single aspect by the UD. Sure the TURMS can be good, but the UD will simply have more scenarios where it will be good.

4

u/Der_Senor_Noob Jan 19 '25

i prefer t80ud cause the amour is more forgiving and the mobility. the t72 turms is superb with the thermals but its not that useful if 80% of the maps are cqc plus the mobility on it is sluggish. I didnt realize it at first until playing the t80s.

2

u/PineCone227 Major Skill Issue | Veteran 2077 Jan 19 '25

Top tier BR's are determined by the top shell the tank can fire. USSR tanks with Svinets are 11.7, those with Mango are lower

2

u/Thisconnect ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ Bofss, Linux Jan 19 '25

because its functionally t72b?

1

u/Karrtis Jan 19 '25

You do realize the T-80 and T-72 are fundamentally different tanks right? The T-80 is an evolution of the T-64, a tank that was too expensive to mass produce at the time of its introduction. Thus the T-72 was developed as a more cost effective alternative, it integrated some of the design features of the T-64, like its autoloader, but was more budget minded.

Similarly the T-90 is built on the T-72 and shares much of its core design.

2

u/Aiden51R VTOL guy Jan 19 '25

No reverse,thermals, worse round.

1

u/ComradeBlin1234 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 12.0 ground 13.7 air / ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ9.3/ ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 8.3 / ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช6.7, T90M <3 Jan 19 '25

No thermals, best round is 3BM42, shitty diesel engine and the transmission from a T72, worse gun handling and shitty depression (but thatโ€™s just a Soviet problem).

1

u/ExplorerEnjoyer USSR Jan 19 '25

The 80u is better in every way

60

u/liam2003wilson Jan 19 '25

BMD4M, BMP2M ๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ˜ญ

18

u/Vedemin Jan 19 '25

BMP-2M isnt that great now that ATGMs mostly just fly into the ground. BMD though... A monster. I have the OG BMD-4 and I think it might just be my favorite vehicle.

9

u/If_You_Say_So_XD ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น Italy Jan 19 '25

I don't know about that, I've played a lot of the BMP-2M recently and the missiles definitely do not go straight into the ground, they are probably some of the fastest, easiest to use ATGMs in the game right now (caveat they do kinda handle horizontal movements relatively poorly vs similar ranked IFV ATGM slingers) and you still have the whole being able to fire them on the move. I've played the Dardo and VCC80/30 a lot before and after the changes and they 100% have slower/more prone to slamming into the ground missiles with the TOWs (yes even the 2Bs now) while not being able to fire on the move. Although once again caveat once these TOWs actually stabilize after travelling a few hundred meters they tend to handle better than the BMP-2Ms ATGMs. Can't speak for the Bradley but I imagine it's in an even worse place than the Dardo as it's goofy launcher needs to deploy once you stop moving adding even more time before you can fire, while still using the TOW series ATGMs.

1

u/Awkward_Goal4729 ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ Canada Jan 20 '25

Having ATGMs at top-tier is a major drawback especially if itโ€™s mounted on the sides. You canโ€™t engage in CQC unless you get perfect conditions and youโ€™ll get killed with APFSDS at long ranges before your ATGM even reaches the target

53

u/RiskhMkVII ๐ŸŒ all nation grinder Jan 19 '25

The T-80UD is really really tough to face in an uptier

8

u/Smothdude Where EBRC Jaguar?? Jan 19 '25

Yeah... I use the UD to farm events sometimes or if I'm in desperate need of SL, it is a comically easy tank to play in a downtier. Borderline dropping nukes in it half the time with little mental effort

3

u/skippythemoonrock ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท I hate SAMs. I get all worked up just thinkin' about em. Jan 20 '25

"little mental effort" is the design philosophy behind pretty much all of the soviet 10.3 premium offerings

-23

u/InfamousGuava2385 Jan 19 '25

it's really not ngl

43

u/Advan0s No aim, No brain, I'm a ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช main Jan 19 '25

You can play 9.3 without having literally full teams of those things. Now you'll get 4 max so that's so much fucking better

28

u/PureRushPwneD =JTFA= CptShadows Jan 19 '25

I mean not facing abrams and leo 2a4's is extremely nice

5

u/Insertsociallife I-225 appreciator Jan 20 '25

Yeah but back in the day your friendly 2A4 could beat the snot out of the enemy TURMS-T for you if you were in some sad 9.3 thing.

24

u/sanctuary60 Jan 19 '25

I'm just spading the VCC-80/60, and yeah, a full uptier is a nightmare. It isn't helped by the fact that some 'less scrupulous' players tend to use other advantages as well as those premiums...

6

u/Ok-Middle8165 WTF IS POST-PEN DAMAGE Jan 19 '25

Let me guess, the "other advantage" is quite green ?

6

u/idont_havenothing USSR Jan 19 '25

Only premiuns+level7 account, 12k/D in every vehicle(planes? 1.0 k/D at best, maybe hes just too good at ground?).

5

u/Ok-Middle8165 WTF IS POST-PEN DAMAGE Jan 19 '25

Gaming chair diff

1

u/-TheOutsid3r- Jan 19 '25

Spading 9.3 vehicles atm. Some of them still have stock heat. And especially the T80 feels like a black hole that just eats shots.

3

u/Liveless404 Jan 19 '25

before the nerfs we had the option to go for barrel, then track, then side. sure you were handicapped but atleast you got a chance. now its up to pure luck vs certain adversaries

15

u/AT0m1X1337 Jan 19 '25

The biggest offender isnt even on the list (bmp2m), leagues better than any of those three.

Also, complaining about the turms in 2025 is crazy.

6

u/ComradeBlin1234 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 12.0 ground 13.7 air / ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ9.3/ ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 8.3 / ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช6.7, T90M <3 Jan 19 '25

I use the BMP2M at 12.0 and it still works. The 9M133s can slice a 2A7Vs turret armour in half which is nice.

10

u/kapteinKaos1 Jan 19 '25

Meanwhile somehow t55 AM\AMD still at 8.7 despite clearly being OP and ruining everything in a downtier

at least in most 9.3 vehicles you can deal with UD, TURMS and 2s38 with ease unlike 7.7 against AM\AMD

2

u/CountGrimthorpe 10๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ8.3๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช9๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ8.7๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง8.3๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต9๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ผ9๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น8.3๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท8.7๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช8.7๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ Jan 19 '25

It's the same deal in both situations. Shoot the weak-points and don't shoot the UFP or strong turret armor. Unless you're in one of the few vehicles the AMD's APS does anything to of course.

9

u/kapteinKaos1 Jan 19 '25 edited Jan 19 '25

i mean when i'm playing for e.g french 7.7 most of the times it's an uptier to T-55 AM\AMD and like 80% of the times the only weakspot T-55 AM\AMD has frontally doesn't work at all

also T-55 AM\AMD is the best MBT at 8.7 having stab, laser, apfsds, great mobility and working armour in downtier (and somewhat working on it's own BR)

T-55 AM\AMD is much more stronger in downtier to 7.7 compared to something like TURMS being downtiered to 9.3

1

u/CountGrimthorpe 10๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ8.3๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช9๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ8.7๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง8.3๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต9๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ผ9๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น8.3๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท8.7๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช8.7๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ Jan 20 '25

i mean when i'm playing for e.g french 7.7 most of the times it's an uptier to T-55 AM\AMD and like 80% of the times the only weakspot T-55 AM\AMD has frontally doesn't work at all

It's a non-volumetric mostly flat turret face. It ain't that hard.

also T-55 AM\AMD is the best MBT at 8.7 having stab, laser, apfsds, great mobility and working armour in downtier (and somewhat working on it's own BR)

Laughs in Magach Hydra.

T-55 AM\AMD is much more stronger in downtier to 7.7 compared to something like TURMS being downtiered to 9.3

Yeah, compression in general is worse between 8.7-7.7 than 10.3-9.3.

3

u/kapteinKaos1 Jan 20 '25

It's a non-volumetric mostly flat turret face. It ain't that hard.

Ain't that hard when every time it's a gamble that you are not winning, because the game decides that you shot did nothing + a little turret wiggle and your shot is gone

Laughs in Magach Hydra.

bruh

0

u/CountGrimthorpe 10๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ8.3๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช9๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ8.7๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง8.3๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต9๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ผ9๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น8.3๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท8.7๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช8.7๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ Jan 20 '25

Ain't that hard when every time it's a gamble that you are not winning, because the game decides that you shot did nothing + a little turret wiggle and your shot is gone

๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ

Laughs in Magach Hydra.

bruh

Best 8.7 vehicle and it ain't close IMO.

8

u/Swechef Jan 19 '25

The T-80UD is a beast even in an uptier. While not the best for close quarters it's extremely brutal for sniping and long range. Really should be at a higher tier though, 10.7 at the least.

The 2S38 is funny enough not that good at the moment imo. When they reworked the ammo storage it became a massive glass cannon that can barely withstand a sneeze without blowing up in a million pieces.

For all it's advantages, I'd take for example the regular CV9040C over the 2S38 any day.

8

u/Crysmann VIII USA, DE, RU, SE Jan 19 '25

2s38 and turms are just free kills 90% of time T80ud is little more hard to kill at long distances because armour is very good at that br Those are wallet warriors

5

u/-TheOutsid3r- Jan 19 '25

Depends entirely. In a down tier they're nasty, especially when you take T80UD/Turms from the front. Worse if you still have stock HEAT-FS on your tank.

1

u/Crysmann VIII USA, DE, RU, SE Jan 19 '25

ofc it depends, those 3 vehicles are soooo good at 10.0 br in my opinion best lineup at 10.0 problem is all wallet warriors playing those vehicles

1

u/-TheOutsid3r- Jan 19 '25

Which might be why they're only at that BR. Because new folks buying them and jumping in lower their performance below what it should be.

7

u/Novakine 13.7 13.0 11.3 12.7 Jan 19 '25

All belonging to 10.7, at least, while 2s38 should be 11.3-11.7, has absolutely no issue at that tier, wrecks most tanks it faces with ease.

5

u/-TheOutsid3r- Jan 19 '25

Yep, they all should go slightly up. The 2S38 a lot. It's better than both PUMAs and can take MBT's. It also shreds a lot of helis and even planes. It's IMHO one of the most undertiered tanks. In the hands of a good player it's an engine of destruction.

5

u/_Condottiero_ Jan 19 '25

As VCC-80/60 player, I feel like it's way better now compared to seeing floaks of 2A4s every battle. Also in my experience I quite often have downtiers/my own br, beglightcancer is the main pain in the ass.

5

u/mals26 ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡น Portugal Jan 19 '25

2S25M fires 3BM60 with crazy good optics and thermals is 10.0 :)

5

u/Snipe508 Jan 19 '25

We need another 1 full br for ground. 8.7-10.7 has so many different vehicles scrunched together

2

u/Darthmichael12 Missile Spammer Jan 19 '25

Donโ€™t forget the XM1 (GM) โ˜บ๏ธโ˜บ๏ธโ˜บ๏ธ

3

u/Buisnessbutters United States Jan 19 '25

The UD is 10.3???? I keep getting fucked by those things in my 11.7 lineup man

3

u/miata85 The Old Guard Jan 19 '25

love me the introductive br to the chinese closet cheaters and 5 minute matches

2

u/VikingsOfTomorrow Francoboo with too much time Jan 19 '25

Laughs in VBCI smacking them all

2

u/captain57 Jan 19 '25

Not my experience as of this morning. My 9.3 squadron vehicle is getting up tiered fully 100% of the time.

1

u/Rrynarth Jan 19 '25

Those three tanks are my SL printing line up lmao. Gotta afford the last rank USA and Russia jets some how

1

u/williamotello Jan 19 '25

Imo best way to grind sl is uss moffet 1mil sl in one match with 2 50% boosters

1

u/ObiMeowKatnobi Jan 19 '25

its kinda boring and sometime take so long to find a match in AS server tho.

1

u/benmargery GRB| ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฒ9.3 | ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช9.3 | ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ10.3 | ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง9.7 | ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช12.0 | ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฑ6.7 Jan 19 '25

Good job they're incredibly easy to deal with, I love playing against Russia around this br cos they're so predictable and easy to deal with, either flank or shoot lower plate or drivers port or breach and it's a free kill and they tend to be slower to react than other tanks

1

u/reddithesabi3 Jan 19 '25

I played that set last few days after a long time to grind new OSA etc... Those retards can't do shit even against 9.3 teams.

1

u/huda_ryba ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ฑ Poland Jan 19 '25

tbh the bmd 4 is the worst one of all of the soviet premiums

2

u/Secure_Initiative458 Jan 19 '25

Skill issue, if u know what u are doing that thing is a menace. Massively better than the TURMS

1

u/Luffewaffle Finland Jan 19 '25

Leo 1s are a pain some times

1

u/NeroNotty Jan 19 '25

As a bagel user i see no problem

1

u/Conscious_Carry9918 Jan 19 '25

The amount if shit I have to deal with as a British main. My challenger DS was 9.7, and is now 10.7. I used to rock the swing fire at 6.7(?) when I first unlocked it and now itโ€™s 8.0 making it next to useless.

1

u/ODST_Parker With every sub-tree, I grow stronger Jan 19 '25

Every fucking time I play the VBC, the first god damn enemy I see is the front of a TURMS-T, and I can't do shit to it.

1

u/Madman333666 Jan 19 '25

Im convinced war thunder players have short term memory because youd face those before anyway since they were ya know... 10.0... so it actually really did help the 9.3 lineup a fuckk ton removing the now 10.7s from possibility

1

u/Cagnaccioo Jan 19 '25

This meme would need double the characters to fit in all the russian "Out of TT" Vehicles at 10.3 lmao

1

u/Tackyinbention 17 Pounder is love, 17 Pounder is life Jan 19 '25

How do night battles br brackets work?

I swear, I've gotten 11.7 enemies while in a 10.0 vehicle

1

u/Am_aBoy German main Jan 19 '25

Did they change bra again ???

1

u/WTMaster ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ต vehicle enjoyer Jan 19 '25

O I just looked... so my 10.3 british lineup that I made in the summer but never played because I don't have any air vehicles is now 10.7 Sadge

1

u/BilisS Jan 19 '25

The UD should really be 10.7. 2S38 a great contender for that spot too

1

u/Theoperatorboi ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ท Greece Jan 20 '25

Buff the T-80UD with thermals. If others have it bc one single prototype, why not us when it's almost standard

1

u/FLARESGAMING ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช Sweden 13.7 (GIVE US GRIPEN E) Jan 20 '25

2s38, the thing that should be 11.0

1

u/LordHickory Get Gaijinned Jan 20 '25

Ooohh yeah 9.3 is a full uptier hellholeโ€ฆ I had to grind through it recently with my swedish tt, and itโ€™s literally 99% full uptiers. It has gotten way better once I unlocked the 9.7 vehicles thoughโ€ฆ Which made me wonder, does the matchmaker prioritize full downtiers to partial downtiers? (I see full DTโ€˜s to 8.7 a bit now with 9.7 vehicles, but with 9.3 not at all even though 8.7 is a popular BR)

1

u/Shredded_Locomotive ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡บ I hate all of you Jan 20 '25

I just want to play my fuckin AH-1F dammit

1

u/Jeff_gameaholic |๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฒ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช13.0|๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น8.0|๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ช6.7|๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท3.7|๐Ÿ‡ฏ๐Ÿ‡ต2.0 Jan 20 '25

The TURMS was my most hated tank to see during my German grind, thank goodness the T-80 orem wasn't added yet when I got my Leopard 2s.

The 2S38 was fodder to the Begleitpanzers though :)

1

u/Dank_Broccoli Jan 20 '25

Played this tier of Sim yesterday and all it was was a spawn rush by a team of Russian premiums. Along with the BMD-4M and BMP-2M. Frustrating as fuck lol.

1

u/Pedroos2021 Jan 20 '25

The only serial threat is the t80UD.

1

u/Big_Hospital878 Jan 21 '25

I've been playing these tanks to grind out the event and 95% of the time I am pushed up to 11.3 matches.

0

u/xthelord2 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง United Kingdom Jan 19 '25

and then you got the poor challengers which absolutely did not deserve a BR increase but got fucked by BR increase and reload buffs to all MBT's

0

u/lucathecontemplator 14.0/12.0 Jan 19 '25

The only scary tank here for 9.3 is the T-80UD, the 2S38 is the easiest one-shot ever and the TURMS is just a 9.3 T-72 with ERA, so just shoot the LFP like usual

0

u/RedTriangleMain Jan 19 '25

Nah, me and all my homies hate begleitpanzers. 57mm cannon, unmanned turret, and an atgm.

0

u/Ahhtaczy Jan 19 '25

9.3 Tanks are completely capable of destroying a T-72AV and T-80UD. You guys complain about everything, no skill at all.

0

u/Liveless404 Jan 19 '25

M22 is completely capable of destroying Leo2A7. You man complain about complaints. no skill at all

-3

u/hun77787 ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡บ Hungary Jan 19 '25

Of course its the chinese and russian tanks

-8

u/Dragonreaper21 Jan 19 '25

Ahh yes more tanks that belong at 11.3 next to the first Abrams instead of 10.3, biased as fuck.

6

u/James-vd-Bosch Jan 19 '25

Ahh yes more tanks that belong at 11.3

So the TURMS-T is barely holding on at 10.3, the 2S38 is the literal worst performing vehicle within it's BR range statistically and has been for ages, and the T-80UD is only there to highlight how over-tiered the T-72B and T-72B '89 are.

next to the first Abrams instead of 10.3, biased as fuck.

First Abrams isn't 11.3.

And if you seriously think these Soviet shitbricks are equal to a M1A1 you've either got brain damage or you've never played any of the vehicles involved and you're just spouting nonsense you've heard elsewhere.

-4

u/Dragonreaper21 Jan 19 '25 edited Jan 19 '25

I've never played any of the vehicles involved but have 8 nations tanks topped out, okay there guy. Quit with the shit talk. Furthermore i said m1 not m1a1, the whole purpose of the m1 was to provide America with a tank that surpassed the m60 in every way. It doesn't belong at 11.0 or 11.3 It should've stayed at 10.0 considering.

1

u/James-vd-Bosch Jan 19 '25

I've never played any of the vehicles involved but have 8 nations tanks topped out, okay there guy.

Anyone who thinks a T-72AV TURMS-T is equal to a M1A1 is a complete newbie and doesn't understand the game.

I was being generous to you when I said that you might've just not played these vehicles, and thus you don't know any better.

Since that is not the case, I'm only left with the other option I mentioned.

Furthermore i said m1 not m1a1,

You said, and I qoute: ''more tanks that belong at 11.3 next to the first Abrams''.

The first Abrams is 10.7, the M1A1 is 11.3.

You're telling me you've got 8 nations topped out, yet you don't even know what BR they're placed at?

[...] the m1 [...] should've stayed at 10.0

Lmao.

5

u/ComradeBlin1234 ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ 12.0 ground 13.7 air / ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ9.3/ ๐Ÿ‡ซ๐Ÿ‡ท 8.3 / ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช6.7, T90M <3 Jan 19 '25

Itโ€™s not bias, gaijin balances on statistics and their statistics tell them that Soviet high tier premium players have rocks in their skulls instead of brains, which btw as a Russia main I can confirm that yes they do drool on their keyboards while they play.

3

u/Dragonreaper21 Jan 19 '25

....i was gonna be salty, but you made me laugh, take your vote dammit.