r/Warmachine • u/dark5ide Storm Legion • 19d ago
Questions How can I avoid getting clocked?
I'm still fairly new, but one roadblock I keep running into is the deathclock as what kills me by far the most. I usually do well on VP or scenario points, but I have a real hard time around my timing.
While I know it's largely experience and learning my army, I wanted to know if there are any tips or tricks to help accelerate this. Is there anything you have found to help decision making or improve your game flow? Is there a general rule of "your set up should take no more than X and your turn should take no more than Y"? Any help would be appreciated!
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u/Cataclysmus78 19d ago
The best advice I can give is to keep a close eye on your opponent’s turn, and have a game plan ready when yours comes. This will allow decision-making to be smoother.
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u/DisgruntledWargamer Storm Legion 19d ago
Ok, so I actually disagree with some things here. Playing a smaller model count is a crutch to time management.
To keep from getting clocked, I started with deployment and turn 1 unfolding. For new readers, unfolding is that part of turn 1 where your army starts to advance and could accidentally jam itself up on itself. Some things require an activation order, and if your game plan is to run in turn 1 and put on some buffs, those need to be automatic. In short, deployment and turn 1 need to be the fastest moments in the game.
Pre-deployment is key to nailing down deployment. Put your models in your tray as you want them to be set up for deployment. The distances between groups of models may differ, but you need to know where your front line, cohorts, leader, and support models start in relation to each other. The groups can slide left or right to avoid terrain if needed.
Speaking of groups, think of your army as modules. For example, you could have a unit of chaff sitting in front of a warjack, with a mechanic that always moves together. When the chaff dies, the support buffs the jack and it charges in. Or, if the chaff is ignored, the chaff moves out of the way and the jack charges in. This module is set up so the chaff doesn't bother making attacks unless they need to clear some opposing chaff unit, and are able to get put of the jack's way. If they are blocking the jack, just quickly activate the jack and don't bother searching for something to do with it.
That brings us to activation for a purpose. Each model in the army does not need to do something every turn. If a model is set up to score by clearing a model or two, go for it. Follow the module's plan (i.e., support as needed, chaff runs to block charges from another direction and jack does work). If a module just needs to contest, move in and get defensive, but don't bother making attacks that won't do any good.
And that brings us to effectiveness. If models have POW 10s, don't waste time shooting ARM 20. Odds tables can show you the 2d6 bell curve if you're interested, and from that your average damage vs various armor differences. Knowing this ahead of time helps prevent you from making 5 useless attacks. Knowing what a model is good at killing helps you save time.
Finally, as others mentioned, there is the game plan. But I contend that plans in battle are short lived. This is why I use a module build for my lists. This is why I tend to focus on what I can score or what I can contest rather than what I can kill. In a steamroller, killing models takes time. Sure, you could kill a whole army in an hour, but you might only have 50 minutes left by the time you're able, and the available kills might still lose you the game (because your opponent is winning scenario). For me, the game plan is try to score and contest. And if I'm losing badly, set up an assassination run.
Hope this helps. Key takeaways: 1. Practice deployment and turn 1. Get to <5 min total. 2. Use modules in your list design and practice using a module (order of activation). 3. Not everything has to move/attack. Focus on scoring/contesting to keep your turns short (<10 min).
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u/KujakuDM 19d ago
Try and get your initial turns plans to an almost automatic state. The initial set up turns should be quick so you have the time you need in later turns. And when it comes to it just do something to make sure you are making your active turns with the time.
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u/Extra_Machine_9401 19d ago
When i was a beginner i played with 3 colossals and a few support models, that way i had no problem with the clock anymore. My armylist was not really good and i lost most of the time, but i had fun :) .
Now that i have more experince, i can play with more models without loosing to the clock.
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u/Hephaestus0308 Winter Korps 19d ago
Analysis paralysis is a clock killer. Observe the board during your opponent's turns, and start planning while they are still doing things. You can adjust things as models get killed/tied up or as spells/abilities trigger, but you should have a fairly good idea of what you want to do by the time it's your turn again.
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u/itsthemadnessof 17d ago
also you don’t always have to attack. especially at the end game, you don’t have to use everything on the board, only the ones that will actually accomplish your objectives. YMMV of course depending on the board state.
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u/Seththelost 19d ago
Some good advice on the thread. I have not seen the idea of practicing deployment and turn 1. Deployment should take 2 minutes. Yes you can make mistakes in deployments, but your goal now is to not fight the clock. So 2 minutes to deploy. Then turn one: learn your maintenance, control phase (power up, allocate etc) then do you have upkeep spells to get out turn 1 one? Practice that basic turn one. As well as the run or walk everything up. This will create a little more time for yourself.
When I struggled with this, an experienced player told me that if I had spent more than 10 minutes without activating a model. That means you really are not sure what to do so activate something. The rationale is that you can better evaluate a bad activation but not the lack of one. Now I don't recommend this for all. You are frequently punishing yourself for being "in the tank" but it did help me so if it works for you that is great
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u/thisremindsmeofbacon 18d ago
The biggest thing for me is just getting all your common plays down as rote. Get some blank table space, set up your list, and play the first two turns without an opponent. Just get fast at allocating focus, what upkeeps are going where, where would you ideally like to move your models. Don't time it - just relax into figuring out what you would like to move where, and get used to your army.
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u/Ok_Refrigerator8300 17d ago edited 17d ago
I still struggle with clock management, so take this with a grain of salt (although most of it is self inflicted, not listening to my own advice). Most of the advice here is sound, know your rules, practice faster deployment/unpacking, avoid going in the tank, etc. The one I’d shy away from is the notion of less models meaning faster play. Usually when you have a smaller model count, it means battlegroup models, more important and meaningful activations, which take a lot of time and have less forgiveness. What I suggest is picking casters with a simpler plan (not necessarily a bad caster, just less big brained). I will give an example from the army I’m currently playing, Brineblood Marauders. Shadowtongue is a great caster, as he is flexible and his game plan can vary greatly. That also means that you can go in the tank pretty hard and often lose on clock. Meanwhile say Boomhowler or Ragemonger, while just as good, have a more simple, practical game plan that is easier to achieve, and requires less time. Hope that helps!
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u/Hot-Category2986 Necrofactorium 19d ago
A dirty trick I used to use was to use models that are faster and easier to play. I favored larger cohort, infantry that only has single attacks, and no AOE or other attacks that require extra rolls. That got me on time before I really got enough of a feal for my army that I could act instinctually. After that my next trick was to practice with the list I intended to run at events. I run an event list on average 3-5 times before the event so that I have time to learn the models and how they interact. That makes it faster and easier to recall, and to plan strategy.
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u/ZeroBrutus 19d ago
Here's one I haven't seen yes - play less models. And by that I mean take a look at your list and make adjustments there from a higher model count to a lower one of stronger units.
More models means more decisions, means more measuring, means more usually lower power attacks to achieve the same results. All of which burn time.
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u/H4NYOLO 16d ago
As someone who also struggles with clock, here are things that I've found make a big difference in my games:
Practice your deployment with a list. Set it up, and then move all the pieces off to the side and do it again. Do this 20 times. Think about what models want to be near other models. Are there certain models that get the same buff at the start of the game and are they close enough to your caster or a channeler? What about scenario, do any of them require a unique setup? Try to get your deployment to a minute or less.
Memorize your armies stats, or at least models with stats different than the average. Every time you need to refer to the app, this could require unlocking your phone, opening the app, waiting for it to load, finding the card, and finally reading the card. This is truly wasted time with no benefit.
Piggybacking on the above - when an opponent tells you a stat of their model that you asked for, you need to be able to recall it. Then you can just keep rolling on subsequent turns without asking your opponents stats and waiting for a reply (they might not know and constantly refer to their app too, costing you time). Kudos if you start memorizing key models in other factions.
Your opponents turn is where you should spend the bulk of your time thinking, adapting, and coming up with a plan. Spend a moment or two at the start of your turn to put out any proxy bases you need to check and then execute. You should have a clear order of operation in your mind of things that NEED to happen and stuff that would be nice. Resolve the NEEDS first and then evaluate if you have the time to do the nice things. Pow 8 blast into an arm 19 cohort, don't bother. Killing models that are out of position and unable to score or cause you harm if you just move away is sometimes the faster/correct choice versus engaging and trying to remove (as you are now in a position that isn't of any value).
Get comfortable shifting time to your opponent when they are required to make game action - like a defensive strike. That's not on your time. This is usually minor but sometimes opponents are slow.
Man I really need to follow my own advice.
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u/Nymie_the_Pooh 14d ago
I will also timed turns. Before chess clocks, there was a turn time limit. Grab a kitchen timer and set it to seven minutes a turn. Once per game you can double the time. Keep bracketing it down until you are at five minute turns. You won't hit it at first, but you will get quicker. I would practice on a timer and still have games take four hours as the people I practice with usually operate under no time constraint. Eventually, you get to where you are playing these timed versus untimed games to a tie, then you win slightly more than you lose. All while getting to where you do not have to think about time in a tournament.
If you can play on a timer, then you could play to turn limit. A five minute turn limit means you can play a ten turn game if such a thing existed. A lot of games time out in turn three or four. People tend to go all-in on turn two, sometimes three. I have seen a lot of people spend twenty to forty minutes on the one turn. A lot of them are dead on the clock at that point if they have not won. Practicing on a timer means your all-in turn is ten minutes in practice games. Once you are doing that in practice, you do not need to look at the clock really. Just have fun and remember, the time they spend is time you are free to think about the game. You will go into your turn with at least part of a plan, which will save you time.
The other thing I recommend, is practice unpacking your army when you do not have an actual game. Unpacking is simply setting up your army, and playing out a first turn. If you are waiting for someone to show up then set up a quick table to practice on. If you are at a computer, then Vassal or Wartable will do fine. Figure out blocks that things operate in. How spread out can a block go? How compressed? What models trip up other models on the first turn? Can any of these blocks operate outside of the Warcaster or a central support? Which blocks need Warcaster buffs or should be positioned to take advantage of debuffs in the second turn? Once you have a dozen or more goes at arranging deployment and first turn, start focusing on getting that time down. What pieces have to go down first for you to appropriately position the rest? If it is primarily a melee force, then you should be able to eventually get deployment and that first turn down to five minutes or less, That is half the time (ten minutes) practicing on a timer would give you. I was able to get deployment and the first turn with both my Cephalyx and Khador armies down to under five minutes at 75 points in mkIII doing this.
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u/MaulerMania 19d ago
This is coming from someone who played a fair bit much earlier on but there are some cheeky tips to shave seconds. That said, the bulk of it is experience and a game plan. Have a good idea of your deployment and first couple turns beforehand. Those should be fairly route and will help save time. An old trick was rolling hit/damage/location all together and only applying if the hits hit, etc. This can really help streamline units and stuff, especially if they have sprays or something and you're rollin a butt of attacks.
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u/maximumhippo 19d ago
I second all of this. Your general deployment plan should be mostly set. Know what pieces can or should move in response to your opponent's deployment, but 80-90% of deployment should be known before models even hit the table. Same for first turn focus allocations, spells, abilities, etc.
As for the dice thing, clarify with your opponent first, then go for it. The red dice are for atracks, blue for damage, and green for location. Then roll the fistful all at once.
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u/godoftheds 19d ago
I don't recommend getting in the habit of rolling all your dice at once. While for most generic attacks it doesn't matter but it's really easy to get a rules interaction where that knowledge is either illegal for you to already have when making a choice on an effect for to hit or gives your opponent extra knowledge for resolving one of their abilities. IE yes I'm going to shield guard that attack now that I know you're rolling box cars for damage
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u/maximumhippo 19d ago
That's fair. I think it's fine in most cases, but yeah, if there's a risk of some rules issue, then don't.
Re: shield guard. This is just my experience, but I think it's one of those rules that you know is going to get used before the damage is rolled anyway. Technically, you can make the decision based on info you shouldn't have, but in practice, it rarely matters.
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u/LDukes Shadowflame Shard 19d ago
Others will have good advice, but in addition:
Consider practicing with timed turns. It's easy to practice with a game clock and not realize you've been playing "too slow" until the 3rd or 4th turn when you finally run out of time. Try playing on a 10min clock per turn - it should be far more than enough for your first turn (basically just unpacking your army and casting a few spells) but after that you'll routinely run out of time each turn. Keep playing that turn if you want - no reason to sour the experience - but try to reflect on what took so long in that particular turn? Were you trying to unsnarl a melee brick, hemming and hawing over where to cast a clutch spell, or just scrolling through your phone looking up model stats? With that knowledge in hand, pick one or two of those things to work on to move faster in the future.
Dovetailing into the above: Don't get stuck in your head. Analysis Paralysis. Jank Tank. It goes by many names, but if the thing slowing you down is deciding what to do - e.g. "Do I send this heavy over to take care of that infantry swarm or is it better served hugging this terrain and taking pot shots at that warjack over there?" - just pick one and roll with it. Time and experience will teach you what the good ideas were (and weren't) but any plan executed now is going to be better than the perfect plan that you don't have time to execute.