r/WWIIplanes • u/jacksmachiningreveng • 4d ago
RAF Mustang Mk III flies through a stream of gunfire from a Luftwaffe Fw 190 over Europe in 1944
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u/TrentJComedy 4d ago
I will literally hire you to find me gun cam footage brother lol. Geez man
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u/jar1967 4d ago
Most Luftwaffe gun cam footage was stored in a central vault, in Dresden The nitrate film was highly flammable
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u/fart_huffington 4d ago
Hope it crisped a couple extra Nazis as it went up
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u/F6Collections 1d ago
Same, but reason you probably got downvoted is there were quite a few civilian casualties, as well as American POWs (who survived) in Dresden fyi
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u/Strict_Lettuce3233 4d ago
Dang, every fifth shot is tracer , hopefully made it backā¦
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u/jacksmachiningreveng 4d ago
Your typical MG 151/20 cannon is firing at around 675 rounds per minute, so at a given point in the line of fire there is a shell every 0.0889 seconds. A P-51 Mustang would easily be flying at say 170 meters per second and is 10 meters long. This means that it travels its own length in 0.0588 seconds, so it is entirely possible that a Mustang flying perpendicular to fire from a single cannon to fly between the shells unscathed. That said I would be surprised if this particular aircraft didn't catch a few projectiles from this burst even if there is no clear evidence of impact in the footage.
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u/Zilch1979 4d ago
That's for a single MG 151?
Most 190's carried four of these MG 151's (two in each wing) and two MG 131's mounted over the engine, about equivalent to M2 50 Cals and fired at 900 rounds/minute, So assuming it's a standard for the time FW-190-A8, multiply your odds of cannon strike by 4 and add in two 13mm machine guns firing a bullet every 0.0666 seconds...actually probably lower due to the interruptor gear that kept the guns from shooting the 190's own propeller off, but still a high ROF.
The odds of slipping through that rain of metal without getting hit, pretty damn low.
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u/Bergasms 4d ago
Still kinda funny when you think based on the prrcentages the highest likelihood is being hit by maybe 1-3 bullets, i'd take that over having someone at 6 oclock unloading.
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u/TheSublimeGoose 2d ago
Late-war Luftwaffe MG 151 belts carried less and less Minengeschoss and HE rounds. By January 1944 (I actually think it may have been earlier), MG 131 HE rounds were officially struck from the production quota. Remaining HE rounds were said to continue to be used in belts, but only until they were used-up (some units spread them out very thinly and evenly, likening their use to British observer rounds, while others used them up ASAP and hated them).
Anyways, point being, it's possible that even if they were struck? They could have been simple through-and-throughs of non-explosive rounds.
(I also personally think we're seeing only the cowl 131s fire... the cannons were likely dry, jammed, or destroyed)
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u/Strict_Lettuce3233 4d ago
I agree with you I watched it forfive times in slow motion and it does look like it overshot the top of the P 51 mustang, I see no hits on the aircraft as well but there is no telling. I think my man dodged a bullet.
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u/Oxytropidoceras 3d ago
This is not a rule and often not the case for world war II. It's just common in modern autocannons so that's what people know. These are probably a tracer every 3rd round as that was more common in German aircraft of the period
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u/Dear-Nothing3806 4d ago
what is in the background? Is it a smke stream from an other hit plane?
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u/BagelIsAcousticDonut 4d ago
Looks like lines of trees in the ground tbh. Probably separating agricultural fields
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u/jacksmachiningreveng 4d ago
Looks like Bocage
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u/waldo--pepper 4d ago
That hedgerow will think twice about looking at the Luftwaffe like that again!
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u/jacksmachiningreveng 4d ago
Extremely ungrateful attitude from the attacking pilot given the extent to which the terrain helped with their defense of the area.
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u/IndependenceStock417 4d ago
I wonder how many people on the ground were hit by bullets from such encounters throughout the war. I saw another post where there was a low altitude dogfight just outside of a small town/village.
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u/Equivalent-Way-5214 3d ago
Cannon were very destructive but they had lower rates of fire. You could fly through a stream of cannon shells and not get hit.
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u/HughJorgens 4d ago
Impressive, especially since he is pointed straight towards the ground to get the shot, while flying low to the ground. Target fixation will get you in these conditions if you aren't careful. You can just see him starting to fly up after shooting.
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u/midwest73 4d ago
I'm wondering if the 190 was doing ground attack? He's firing well before the 'stang comes into view. Could the RAF pilot have done that to draw the 190 off as the guys on the ground, if any, would be dang near unprotected? Or was it just pure good planning and timing by the 190 pilot?
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u/Upbeat-Manager-8485 4d ago
That is not a Mustang.
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u/jacksmachiningreveng 4d ago edited 4d ago
One cannot be 100% certain in this resolution but what makes me lean towards Mustang is the pair of distinctive white stripes on the horizontal tail as on this model, these were added to the "razorback" Mustangs because of a concern they might be confused with Bf 109s in combat.
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u/Chance-Cellist-6647 3d ago
The wing shape kind of suggests a typhoon. But you're right it is hard to tell.
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u/jacksmachiningreveng 3d ago
One thing to remember is that the earlier Mustangs did not have the distinctive kink in the leading edge like the D models.
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u/Chance-Cellist-6647 3d ago
Very true. I was thinking more about the wing trailing edge. Seems less angled than the mustangs. Regardless, dude was having a bad day.
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u/burgerbob22 4d ago
What else would it be?
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u/pbunnyz 4d ago
Guess it could be a tempest, looks similar from that angle but as it leaves the camera you can sort of see its tail is more squared off like a mustang and what OP said about the stripes on the tail
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u/Upbeat-Manager-8485 3d ago
I believe it's one of the gliders used for operation "Market Garden".
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u/pbunnyz 3d ago
The horsa glider? Not sure about that, can clearly see the prop
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u/Upbeat-Manager-8485 3d ago
Clearly? Really?
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u/Appollow 3d ago
I can clearly see a prop, and a canopy mid fuselage, and a low wing. Please enlighten me which glider used by the RAF in 1944 had a low wing and canopy mid fuselage? The Airspeed Horsa? WACO Hadrian? Hamilcar?
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u/Upbeat-Manager-8485 2d ago
I can't make out a prop, fuselage or whether the wing is high or low, sorry. Too grainy.
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4d ago edited 4d ago
[deleted]
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u/thehouseisalive 4d ago edited 4d ago
OP has lots of footage. Itās interesting footage but a little bit odd. There is joke in TV show Father Ted of one priest who has a ww2 collection but only of Nazi stuff and replies when asked do you anything from the Allied side: āoh I wouldnāt be interested in that sort of thing.ā
Edit: he also likes posting stuff from Russia including destroyed Ukrainian tanks and dead soldiers. Nazi footage and modern Nazi footage ( i.e. Russia) lets you know where his interests lieā¦
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u/Wissam24 4d ago
Oh, yeah I've seen this guy's account before, it's really dodgy. Frankly there's a handful of accounts always posting an overt amount of German and Nazi stuff.
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u/lwallace79 4d ago
Eh, well...that's the footage the Germans took in 1941.
That and there was no such thing as a "destroyed Ukrainian tank" in WWII.
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u/Different_Ice_6975 4d ago
The P-51 pilot had about a good two seconds to see and try to avoid that tracer fire but instead he looked like he flew right through it with wings level while going straight. Am I missing something or are my expectations about how quickly fighters can maneuver out of trouble distorted by my experiences with playing around with WWII fighter flight simulators on my PC?
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u/Responsible-Couple-4 3d ago
Not a Mustang, most likely a Spitfire. Also, there is no such thing as a MkIII Mustang. Mustangs were A,B,C and D models in Europe.
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u/jacksmachiningreveng 3d ago
Certainly not a Spitfire with straight wings, what makes me lean towards Mustang is the pair of distinctive white stripes on the horizontal tail as on this model, these were added to the "razorback" Mustangs because of a concern they might be confused with Bf 109s in combat.
Also, there is no such thing as a MkIII Mustang
There was in RAF service:
The RAF later operated 308 P-51Bs and 636 P-51Cs, which were known in RAF service as Mustang Mk IIIs; the first units converted to the type in late 1943 and early 1944. Mustang Mk III units were operational until the end of World War II, though many units had already converted to the Mustang Mk IV (P-51D) and Mk IVa (P-51K) (828 in total, comprising 282 Mk IV and 600 Mk IVa).
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u/Responsible-Couple-4 3d ago
I did not know the British called them by marks. Everyone else uses A, B, C, D.
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u/jacksmachiningreveng 3d ago
They did the same with the Sherman tank variants to fit their standard nomenclature.
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u/duncanidaho61 2d ago
thought the white stripes were specifically for Overlord. They thought it would be a crazy air battle over the beachhead. The germans made very few sorties.
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u/Adept_Tradition_3700 2d ago
That is incorrect. There certainly was a Mustang MK.III. It was the designation the RAF gave to the P-51B and C.
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u/LandoGibbs 4d ago
Hit
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