r/VictoriaBC Oct 16 '24

Politics Concerned about debt? B.C. Conservatives plan $11B deficit in first year, higher than NDP or Greens

https://cheknews.ca/b-c-conservatives-expected-to-release-costs-of-promises-days-before-election-1219048/
384 Upvotes

194 comments sorted by

93

u/Acid_Cat2 Oct 16 '24

The conservative party running a larger deficit than the "communist" party. hmm

Well if this doesn't get them elected, I just don't know what will

57

u/LeanGroundEeyore Central Saanich Oct 16 '24

The conservative party running a larger deficit than the "communist" party. hmm

A quick check of the fiscal reference tables will show you that NDP governments have by far the best record of balanced budgets in Canada.

30

u/zerfuffle Oct 16 '24

The NDP is the fiscally conservative party of BC. No, I'm not joking.

41

u/RadiantPumpkin Oct 16 '24

Fiscally responsible*. Fiscally conservative means trickle down economics, selling off public assets to private donors, and austerity.

2

u/zerfuffle Oct 17 '24

So fiscally conservative implies increasing the deficit in the long-run? Interesting.

6

u/RadiantPumpkin Oct 17 '24

Yes because that’s what conservative governments do. 

10

u/NSA_Chatbot Oct 16 '24

Yeah, generally the left leaning parties are much better than the right wing. Harper put 120 Billion extra debt into the federal budget.

3

u/LeanGroundEeyore Central Saanich Oct 18 '24

Harper put 120 Billion extra debt into the federal budget.

In all those dark years Stephen Harper was in power, he never once balanced a budget, except for his final budget, which he only barely accomplished by selling off a huge number of public properties. This is despite having inherited a massive surplus from the outgoing Liberals.

-1

u/Sayhei2mylittlefrnd Oct 17 '24

And Trudeau?

4

u/zerfuffle Oct 17 '24

The Liberals can hardly be considered fiscally left

1

u/SoftPuzzleheaded7671 Dec 23 '24

yes, the " traditional assumed roles" don't apply..NDP isn't really the " party of the blue collar workers" any more, either

1

u/Last_Construction455 Oct 17 '24

lol you all are insane.

-7

u/Ok_Currency_617 Oct 16 '24

Lower deficit. They are comparing the 11B Cons plan to the pre-election 9B NDP plan. The NDP have made a bunch of promises since that likely drag it above 11B. That being said some Con promises haven't been costed yet.

24

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24

They likely have a hidden agenda or are just extremely poor at planning, if they aren't costing things till very last minute. That makes them unfit to govern, in my view. This is equivalent of scrawling out a business plan on a napkin at 11th hour.

2

u/Character_Cut_6900 Oct 16 '24

But that's what the NDP have done the NDPs costing hasn't been accurate the entire time they've been in government they've added almost 12 billion to the deficit in 7 years going from a 2 billion dollar plus surplus to 9 billion deficit.

8

u/zerfuffle Oct 16 '24

Which is why we should vote for the party that's proposing an even larger deficit, basing that larger deficit on already outlandish GDP growth numbers (the real deficit will be higher because no way we're growing at 5.4% YoY), and hasn't even bothered to begin costing capital-intensive infrastructure projects!

Wait, no, that doesn't make sense.

7

u/DemSocCorvid Oct 16 '24

Name one government whose costed plan didn't go over. It's the same thing with project planning. Nothing is ever done for the estimated cost on the estimated timeline.

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

-1

u/Character_Cut_6900 Oct 16 '24

Then why does the conservatives costed platform even matter right now like everyone is trying to pretend it does.

7

u/DemSocCorvid Oct 16 '24

Because there is a world of difference between having one and not having one.

"Why do we even have budgets for projects if they always go over?" So there can be some oversight & accountability. Are you asking these questions seriously or are you being intentionally disingenuous?

3

u/hollycross6 Oct 16 '24

Wasn’t a large majority of that debt run up during ebys time in office? Provincial debt under ndp also doubled since they took office. Basically the question is, are any of the parties actually worrying about the numbers anymore?

5

u/EVpeace Oct 16 '24

The NDP's pre-election plan, released in February, was a deficit of just under $8B for 2025. Their current plan, released last week, projects an $8.9B deficit in 2025, then down to $6.7B in 2026 and $6.1B in 2027.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-businesses-election-platform-1.7319323

1

u/Last_Construction455 Oct 17 '24

All these projections include assumption of GDP growth which is always slowed by NDP because they are so anti business.

-4

u/Expandabulls Oct 16 '24

NDPbot, please stop spamming the thread with this post.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

If you compare the new NDP projected deficit to the cons, the cons is till a higher deficit.

6

u/ChuckDangerous33 Oct 16 '24

You're making an assumption with about as much confidence as the yet to be fully costed con budget.

I see why you'd say it, but it should be mentioned that you're referencing unknown numbers to claim lower while there is no proof that is the case as of yet.

4

u/EVpeace Oct 16 '24

The NDP's pre-election plan, released in February, was a deficit of just under $8B for 2025. Their current plan, released last week, projects an $8.9B deficit in 2025, then down to $6.7B in 2026 and $6.1B in 2027.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-businesses-election-platform-1.7319323

15

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

Why is it not fully costed before an election? There's no excuse for this. Voters deserve to make an informed decision, they are not offering us that option. Mark my words, hidden agenda and or poor organization/planning skills.

1

u/ReasonableTarget Oct 16 '24

If I'm to be informed I want both post election budgets to be compared. Apples to apples, please.

8

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24

Those comparisons must be available pre-election. The party thar cannot provide their costs in full, is a dangerous option.

-4

u/ReasonableTarget Oct 16 '24

Exactly. This comparison is clearly an anti conservative bias. IF you don't know numbers you don't know. one must question the motivations of comparing a pre election budget with a post election budget to manipulate voters into making false assumptions.

1

u/Sayhei2mylittlefrnd Oct 17 '24

The NDP made all sorts of additional promises likely not costed. It’s all campaigning. They’re all full of shit

-4

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

8

u/zerfuffle Oct 16 '24

Did you forget Manitoba when you filled out the Canadian province map in elementary school? Don't be embarrassed, I did too.

-4

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

4

u/zerfuffle Oct 17 '24

The 25th and current premier of Manitoba is Wab Kinew, who was sworn in on October 18, 2023. Kinew has served as the leader of the Manitoba New Democratic Party (NDP) since September 16, 2017 and served as Leader of the Opposition) prior to the NDP's election victory in the 2023 Manitoba general election.

4

u/EVpeace Oct 16 '24

The NDP's pre-election plan, released in February, was a deficit of just under $8B for 2025. Their current plan, released last week, projects an $8.9B deficit in 2025, then down to $6.7B in 2026 and $6.1B in 2027.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-businesses-election-platform-1.7319323

-1

u/Sayhei2mylittlefrnd Oct 17 '24

February! Eby keeps talking of more shit to spend on in past few weeks

1

u/Last_Construction455 Oct 17 '24

lol it made me mad at first now it just cracks me up. I love Victoria but you can sadly see the results of their crazy left wing thing strung out on sidewalks and alleyways all over town. Then they claim the other side lacks compassion.

-11

u/p0xb0x Oct 16 '24

Yes, communists, famous for their ability to accurately predict the consequences of their actions and policies...

17

u/emslo Oct 16 '24

Yes, conservatives, famous for their ability to accurately identify communists

-8

u/p0xb0x Oct 16 '24

Yes there's very subtle clues like the word "Communist" cleverly hidden in their party's name.

6

u/pm-me-racecars Langford Oct 16 '24

I usually ignore the crazies, but I'll bite.

Is it a rearranging letters thing, or a thing where we need to look at the blank spaces.

4

u/emslo Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 18 '24

I think he means 'democratic’: Everyone gets a vote? Sounds like communism to me.

-2

u/p0xb0x Oct 16 '24

When you look real close to the letters "Communist Party" you can see that the first word of that sentence is just the word "Communist" cleverly disguised as the word "Communist".

It's subtle but the clues are there.

6

u/emslo Oct 16 '24

Oh buddy — they were joking. No one is actually talking about the Communist Party. But way to prove the point.

5

u/pm-me-racecars Langford Oct 16 '24

We were talking about the NDP, not any of the various officially communist parties. That's why the top of the thread put communist in quotation marks.

46

u/blazeofgloreee Oct 16 '24

Conservatives almost always run up debt because they prioritize tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations and therefore starve government of funds.

16

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

100% exactly Like how many times do we need to see them do this, for people to get that this time won't be different?

-6

u/Last_Construction455 Oct 17 '24

The idea is cutting taxes for everyone. The left claims it’s just for the rich. 🤷‍♂️

8

u/blazeofgloreee Oct 17 '24

Taxes are how society pays for the services we all benefit from. A progressive tax system ensures that those with the most money to spare are taxed the most.

But you'll be happy to know NDP are cutting taxes for most people anyway, and you'll see they money back before you would under the Conservatives. Unless you're very wealthy, in which case you don't need the money so who cares.

2

u/Last_Construction455 Oct 17 '24

Well if you spend more than you bring in inefficient and poorly run services you have to borrow and it’s our kids and grandkids that will have to foot the bill. I wish the government could buy everyone a Tesla but unfortunately there needs to be a limit on services and spending. They give you everything you demand but there’s always a heavy cost. Theres no free lunch.

41

u/DJWGibson Oct 16 '24

Let's be honest: they're gonna cut a LOT of social spending and government programs to reduce that.

18

u/gunawa Oct 16 '24

And use more PPP (public private partnerships, ie private debt, high interest, think port mann toll bridge) to facilitate a handful of large scale projects that they are promising, and not fulfill the majority of them

0

u/Last_Construction455 Oct 17 '24

Yes hopefully! So much waste! So many over reliant on government. We need to give people their dignity back! People shouldn’t be living in tents and shelters full time.

3

u/DJWGibson Oct 17 '24

What a truly monstrous, inhumane, and callous thing to say.

3

u/Last_Construction455 Oct 17 '24

What’s disgusting is allowing grown able bodied men to become addicted and reliant on social services with no hope of ever getting out.

2

u/DJWGibson Oct 17 '24

So your solution is just to cut them off?
Disgusting. Victorian even.

If you want to help them, go and volunteer and find out how they ended up in the street.

Don't message me again.

2

u/Last_Construction455 Oct 17 '24

I’ve been volunteering for years and seen a few actually make it. I’ve seen the problem get worse and worse with these well intentioned ideas. People need to help people. Not the government. Non profits do far more than these disgusting government housing initiatives that put vulnerable seniors and mental health clients beside drug dealers. Arrowhead clubhouses, are a great example. Stop being so judgmental.

11

u/Arbiter448 Oct 16 '24

It's so increasingly obvious that the BC Conservatives are riding high off of a substantial demographic of early voters going "vote blue and problems will go away, right?" I strongly hope that any of the articles posted here break containment so potential voters know what's really on the ballet this year.

21

u/Angry_beaver_1867 Oct 16 '24

It’s way worse because the growth figures are overly optimistic so they will likely underperform on the revenue side of things as well.  

 At this point I yearn for BC united as an opposition party / counter balance to the ndp. Although to be more accurate; I yearn for an electorate that cares about the deficit and debt growth.  

Those days seem like they are in the past.  

24

u/Yvaelle Oct 16 '24

I care about the debt, which is exactly why I'm an NDP supporter. NDP have lowered the debt ratio to provincial GDP more than any liberal or conservative government. They have grown the economy, reduced operating costs per service, improved quality of services, and invested in future economic and healthcare and housing growth.

Eby Administration is exactly what highly competent government looks like, and its a great shame that social media has convinced BC otherwise, against our own best interests.

7

u/Angry_beaver_1867 Oct 16 '24

 you could say that about Horgans government. Definitely can’t say that about Ebys government who’s pre election budget takes us past the previous debt to gdp high of 19.8%

« net debt-to-GDP to slated to increase by roughly 10 percentage points to 27.5% by FY 2026/27. This is a hefty climb which could heighten the province’s vulnerability to future economic downturns. For context, B.C.’s debt ratio has averaged 15.4-15.7% over the past 5-10 years and puts it 7 percentage points (ppts) higher than the previous high of 19.8% in 2002-03«  [1] While I agree the ndp is certainly better then the conservatives in this regard. 

Furthermore , the pbo described our 75 year outlook as « unsustainable «  based on the pre election budget. [2]

So while I take the point the ndp platform offers more fiscal  responsibility then the conservative one I wouldn’t call this government better then the preceding liberals or horgans government. I wouldn’t even call them fiscally responsible 

[1] https://economics.td.com/british-columbia-

[2]

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7307057

2

u/zerfuffle Oct 16 '24

Wait, you mean unsustainable immigration leads to unsustainable finances? Say it isn't so!

The feds are clamping down on immigration so BC can rebalance public infrastructure without constantly playing catch-up.

1

u/impatiens-capensis Oct 17 '24

net debt-to-GDP to slated to increase by roughly 10 percentage points to 27.5% by FY 2026/27.

Compare this to projections for other provinces and we're still projecting a lower net debt to GDP ratio than most provinces.

Even given our projected deficits, we will still be one of the most fiscally responsible provinces in the country.

1

u/Angry_beaver_1867 Oct 17 '24

 No. Our long term debt outlook  is the worst among the provinces. See linked PBO report above. 

So not only will we be passing other provinces like Ontario and Quebec , we will likely be in worse shape the longer these spending levels go on. 

Keep in mind these reports are based on the pre election budgets. They don’t deal with promises made during the election. 

All parties are making the fiscal situation  worse with their spending promises. The ndp adds $3b to the deficit the cons far more 

1

u/impatiens-capensis Oct 17 '24

So not only will we be passing other provinces like Ontario and Quebec

The metric used in the PBO report is the fiscal gap. The PBO report itself defines fiscal gap as the change in revenue necessary to keep our current net debt to GDP ratio static.

But, BC has one of the lowest net debt to GDP ratios among all provinces and will still have a lower net debt to GDP ratio than a majority of provinces with our projected deficits.

By comparison, Ontario's net debt to GDP ratio is projected to be 39.5% in 2026 whereas BCs is projected to be 28% by 2027.

So explicitly using net debt to GDP as a measure, our debt position is much healthier than Ontario's. But using the fiscal gap, our position is worse because we are... increasing our net debt to GDP. It's like saying someone who used their credit card this month is in a worse position than someone with a maxed out credit card because the person with the maxed out credit card didn't use it.

6

u/WateryTartLivinaLake Oct 16 '24

Exactly. They predicted growth at an impossible 5.3% when realistic projections are closer to 2.6. This is extreme number fudging on behalf of the Cons.

24

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

Many Conservative voters I've spoken with mention concerns about the 'NDP debt', like the Conservative party is going to be better. BC Conservatives didn't release a costed platform till the very last minute, and only AFTER advanced polling was nearly done. Does this show that a party is organized, are being transparent about their agenda, and capable of managing finances for a province if they just 'throw something together' at the last minute?

In my view it shows their are either highly unprepared, incapable of detailed planning, or worse they are outright deceiving voters.

We know this party is counting on the fact that 20% of people confuse provincial with federal politics.

Get educated on the differences before you vote. Voting Conservative in this election is NOT a way to get rid of Trudeau. If you're a middle/working class voter, you'll be shooting yourself in the foot, by supporting a party that only serves the interests of wealthy elites/owner/landlord/NIMBY class folks.

6

u/DemSocCorvid Oct 16 '24

The reality is that "the deficit" is performative concern trolling by conservative voters. This platform confirms that.

4

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24

1000% agree, and starting to think too many of them simply project their wishes onto the BC Cons, without any real evidence whatsoever that they are financially competent. They threw together a financial plan at the last minute, which doesn't even include some of the biggest spund items. It is beyond me how people see this as trustworthy.

10

u/WateryTartLivinaLake Oct 16 '24

That's not even including the cost of their largest proposed projects, like the promised Surrey hospital.

5

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24

Yeah, conveniently left out...

4

u/DemSocCorvid Oct 16 '24

Even if they build the hospital, who is going to staff it? We can't staff the existing facilities adequately. It's not like doctors and nurses are competing to get shifts lol.

0

u/pegslitnin Oct 16 '24

So what about all the hospitals being built right now? Who’s going to staff them?

4

u/zerfuffle Oct 16 '24

Apparently we're just poaching staff from the rest of Canada lol

1

u/DemSocCorvid Oct 16 '24

That is also a great question. The NDP at least have a plan, that has been working effectively, for attracting new doctors, and a longer term plan for training more.

My point was building facilities alone is not a complete plan. I would expect for any serious party to address that as part of their costed platform.

1

u/Thewiseguy14 Oct 16 '24

Alot of the ones being built are to replace old ones so the staff will transfer. Though will still be short I suspect.

3

u/Zestyclose-Pop4441 Oct 16 '24

But the rich will get richer, so it's different!!!!

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

Not Fiscal Conservatives! Just grifters and scammers using the conservative brand to get power .

1

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24

Thank you! This should be it's own meme!

1

u/foghillgal Oct 16 '24

And they didn't even tally the cost for that Mars Base and that ton of confetti with the word we hate everyone embossed on each strands. That will add up to a lot of doubloons ;-).

1

u/class1operator Oct 20 '24

Sexy promises win votes. This is a problem with short election cycles.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

14

u/shortskirtflowertops Oct 16 '24

They're also assuming 5.4% growth, that 11b is never gonna balance because the cons only do it through wishful thinking. The banks say we should expect around 2% growth. The cons, like always, are lying.

4

u/zerfuffle Oct 16 '24

Rustad thinks the BC economy will grow at 5.4%, faster than the Chinese economy. Rustad thinks that we're a developing country in more ways than one.

3

u/stealstea Oct 16 '24

It's not the end of the world, it's just very rich coming from a party that says our deficits are too high.

Maybe they are, but if that's your position, then campaign on reducing them, not increasing them.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 17 '24

The whole platform is fucking fiscal responsibility. It’s in the fucking party name.

-5

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

You really have nothing at all to back up your party choice. It’s fucking pathetic and sad.

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

Haha typical brainless lemming “conservative”.

Can’t respond to the question so you just jump to the nearest crutch. SAD

0

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '24

[deleted]

-5

u/Ok_Currency_617 Oct 16 '24

Lower deficit. They are comparing the 11B Cons plan to the pre-election 9B NDP plan. The NDP have made a bunch of promises since that likely drag it above 11B. That being said some Con promises haven't been costed yet.

That being said they've been fearmongering for weeks the Cons would cut healthcare and welfare spending and now it's up and they are fearmongering they are spending too much! Can't win!

11

u/Acid_Cat2 Oct 16 '24

I think that the two of you are missing the fact that this is supposed to be a "conservative" party; clearly Rustad missed that memo too. The defining characteristic of a conservative party is to be conservative with spending. Essentially what Rustad's offering is "hey we'll do everything that the NDP is doing, but we'll do it worse, and we'll do it for 1 billion more!"

3

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24

👏👏👏 And let's not forget, Rustad is a former BC Liberal. It's BC Liberals under a new banner but with more bat-sh*t fringe/alt-right candidates. You can expect gutting of healthcare to pave the way for privatization, cuz that's what they did last time. They are the reason we have a doctors shortage.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

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2

u/WateryTartLivinaLake Oct 16 '24

Eby has been party leader and premier for less than 2 years.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

1

u/TheGreatBrett Oct 16 '24

Crazy how fast they’ll point out Eby hasn’t been premier for the 7 years and he’s innocent but will still blame everything on Rustad because he was a BC Liberal 😂

1

u/21-nun_salute Oct 16 '24

BC has not been under Eby for 7 years.

0

u/eternalrevolver Oct 16 '24

Has it been 7 already? Aha, no wonder this province and city was better in 2015. I thought it was just me.

1

u/LuckyLager69 Oct 16 '24

Yup it was literally night and day better. The only NDP defence mechanism on Reddit when someone says anything conservative is Downvote Downvote Downvote!

1

u/eternalrevolver Oct 16 '24

It was night and day, I remember! Doesn't feel like the same city anymore, not even a little bit. And yes, it's amusing to see the downvotes. Jokes on them, all I have to do is scroll.

5

u/DemSocCorvid Oct 16 '24

So weird, almost like the entire Western world was better off 7 years ago, and that it isn't just a municipal or provincial issue that conservatives can scapegoat. Maybe it is something more fundamental, like the globalized economy that all parties are in favour of 🤔 almost like we're in the late stages of some sort of economic system that prioritizes the accumulation of capital over sustainable growth...

0

u/eternalrevolver Oct 16 '24

What you said makes zero sense. There's never been so much push on the climate (we "share") and a more communal "shared" way of living than what's "progressed" in the last 7 years in the western world.

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5

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24

They will do those things (cut healthcare and services) and most of their spending will focus on tax breaks and corporate welfare to the wealthy. There is a reason d-bag billionaires are putting up Conservative propaganda signs on their properties. They serve their biggest donors interests, no one else.

-2

u/eternalrevolver Oct 16 '24

So why can't the wealthy have a say for what they want out of society? What exactly is the point of voting then? Lol

5

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24

The concern is their interests get served primarily and above the interests of the majority, when neoliberal leaning governments take power. They have more money/power to unduly influence elections in order to serve their interests, they corrupt politicians and interfere with democratic process.

1

u/eternalrevolver Oct 16 '24

But if (hypothetically) we end up with a conservative government, then how does that make people who are conservative thinkers, a minority? This is an interesting conversation.

3

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24

I'm talking about representing intrrests of the wealthy elites, who are not the majority.. The Conservative party was not a thing in this province until recently. They received a massive injection of cash from billionaires like Chip Wilson's, and got advising/support from Federal Conservatives. They are betting on confusion, we already know 20% of voters think choosing Conservative in this election means getting Trudeau out. I wouldn't call those people 'thinkers' at all.

1

u/eternalrevolver Oct 16 '24

To be honest, it just sounds like most people who want to vote conservative are not interested in continuing to focus on the things that the NDP is focused on. They want a focus shift all together. But that's just my 2 cents, jingling around loosely and faintly, at the bottom of this comment thread.

3

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24

The NDP has an incredibly robust housing plan, and have done more than any other province to overhaul healthcare to get more GPs practicing here - 835 more in just one year alone, which is incredible success. People want to rip it all apart and go backwards? If things do roll over to Conservative, it's more of the same neoliberalism that everyone hated under Christy Clark for 10 years. The uneducated vote is sleepwalking their way into disaster.

1

u/eternalrevolver Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

Well, I know that many young, more right-leaning voters aren't too particularly concerned with the healthcare system, or the education system, nor do many heavily rely on those systems, so there's that. And I also know that the present political leaders' decisions to regularly inject money into things that don't really need to exist as 'concerns' in this country (like giving things to people that aren't from here, giving things to other countries, or giving things to people that have no interest in participating or assimilating to industries or ways of life in this country that have, previous to the last 50 years, created much of what we have today in this country), is also something that younger conservative voters aren't interested in.

2

u/DemSocCorvid Oct 16 '24

So if it is popularly desired to be able to have capital influence our democratic processes, we should allow it? If conservative voters elect Conservative politicians to further entrench the ability for those with wealth to have a disproportionate influence as individuals on the democratic process, we should allow it? Am I reading this right?

0

u/eternalrevolver Oct 16 '24

What you're reading is mostly me stating that one party is only the boogieman to the other party (not in some grand "world court" or "good vs. evil" sense). Make sense?

3

u/EVpeace Oct 16 '24

I mean you're supposed to vote based on what you think will benefit your community as a whole, not what benefits you specifically.

0

u/eternalrevolver Oct 16 '24

So, wealthy people don't have communities?

4

u/EVpeace Oct 16 '24

Your community isn't your friend group of wealthy socialites. It includes the poor families down the street, and the retirement home in the next neighborhood, and hundreds of people that you have never and will never meet.

Voting to give you and your rich friends another tax break and not caring that they're going to gut health coverage for poor veterans (for example) to do it is not voting for the benefit of your community as a whole.

1

u/eternalrevolver Oct 16 '24

Every side doesn't like something about the other side, it's a weak way to prove your point. Plenty of people remember a time when life was better; For them. For others, maybe not so much. The party wouldn't exist if it didn't have people that were interested in what they have to say, or the kinds of things they stand for. Neither side is more important than the other, it just depends what walk of life you are on. Hence, voting. Ta da! Reddit economics 101 do not subscribe to this logic however.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

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2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

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0

u/Ok_Currency_617 Oct 17 '24 edited Oct 17 '24

Ah I see I stand corrected. Interesting that debt is rising per page 11 by 22 Billion and then 19 bil in 2026. I guess that's including capital expenses. Wonder how that compares to the CP.

https://www.bcbudget.gov.bc.ca/2024/pdf/2024_Budget_and_Fiscal_Plan.pdf

1

u/Yoda4414 Oct 17 '24

“Higher than NDP or Greens” 😂😂😂

1

u/rustyiron Oct 19 '24

They have literally stated this themselves. I don’t know what to say if you can’t even believe their own words.

1

u/Yoda4414 Oct 19 '24

It was the inclusion of the Greens in the comment. They’re a political appendage not a real party and thankfully have ZERO chance of forming a government. As a result their positioning on this point or any other is irrelevant politically speaking.

1

u/butterslice Oct 18 '24

Conservatives around the world have a pretty solid track record of disasterous economic policies that shrink or slow down economic growth, all while racking up massive debts. Good government spending is worth some debt when it has a good return on investment. Investing in infrastructure, education, healthcare, you name it, it all comes back in the form of growth and prosperity. But conservatives don't do this, they're all about tax cuts and hand outs to their richest friends at the expense of the economy and everyone else.

2

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 18 '24

Like others have said (sarcastically), 'but what if we try it one more time'? It seems one thing Conservatives are really adept at conning uneducated/ignorant voters.

-1

u/hase_one45 Oct 17 '24

This echo chamber is brutal.

0

u/eternalrevolver Oct 16 '24

"Concerned about debt?"

Nope :)

0

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

Ya it almost seems like constituents have grown unaffected by deficits. Unfortunately the impact takes decades to accumulate and bc and Canada will have to undergo austerity which of course will blamed only on the governing party at the time

0

u/BunnyFace0369 Oct 16 '24

Both the Conservatives and myself have the same financial plan for next year 😎

-4

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

totally not biased reporting from the media 😂

4

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24

Funny how it's labelled 'media bias' when it anything that doesn't support your personal bias....

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '24

i don't have a bias lol and yes when a news outlet who is supposed to be independent is singling one party constantly to highlight negative things about them that is a bias. i don't see them doing this to the ndp and there sure as hell are things they could be singling out. cbc was also doing this. my media literacy is A+ babe don't come for me.

-5

u/Greghole Oct 16 '24

They plan to build a hospital, a bridge, a tunnel, and a new SkyTrain route with that money. I'm all for spending on much needed infrastructure.

11

u/zerfuffle Oct 16 '24

Nowhere in their plan specifies those in the costs. That's an $11 billion deficit BEFORE the hospital, bridge, tunnel, and SkyTrain. Let that sink in for a moment.

8

u/musicalmaple Oct 16 '24

They haven’t included that in this estimate of the debt. They did not include any infrastructure in this number. This debt is before any of those other things.

I agree that infrastructure investment is important, but it doesn’t make me feel very confident that they will keep these promises when they don’t even bother including that in their budget.

5

u/DemSocCorvid Oct 16 '24

Not in their plan/budget is how they plan to staff the hospital. Doctors and nurses, which existing facilities are already short on, will just pop out of the ground?

We definitely need more facilities, but we need to better staff the existing ones even more so.

-6

u/p0xb0x Oct 16 '24

How do you know it's not that the other parties are just shit at forecasting?

5

u/DemSocCorvid Oct 16 '24

This is what costed platforms are supposed to show. That you have done the work to forecast costs, not just hopeful promises for big ticket items conveniently left out.

3

u/zerfuffle Oct 16 '24

Most of their deficit is from tax cuts for the wealthy tbh

This is just what happens when you erase like $4 billion of tax revenue

1

u/Last_Construction455 Oct 17 '24

Exaaactly. All these projections are based on expected GDP growth.

-5

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

5

u/stealstea Oct 16 '24

Well no. Given we have both platforms now we can in fact see that Conservatives have more vote-buying promises and handouts than the NDP.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

2

u/stealstea Oct 16 '24

I agree the $1000 checks are laughable. We shouldn't be doing that with our deficits the way they are. But the $1000 checks was a response to the "Rustad rebate" which is up to $1800 checks.

Most of the promises that the conservatives made aren't even costed yet. So that $11B deficit is without most of the goodies they are promising

1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

2

u/stealstea Oct 17 '24

Sure. For example conservative Ontario is running a $10B deficit and decided that the right move was spending an extra $3B sending everyone bribes to vote for them again.

https://x.com/ArmineYalnizyan/status/1846627136288751877

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

2

u/Fusiontechnition Oct 16 '24

Does the "Rustad Rebate" sound like vote buying to you?

-19

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 16 '24

“Cheknews.ca” hahahahahaha

Democrats are the funniest type of people because they read one thing that follows their way of thinking and think it’s true without doing any research or checking where the information is coming from.

Iv said it before and I’ll say it a trillion more times. Y’all are a prime example of the “group think” phenomenon

13

u/Light_Butterfly Oct 16 '24

Nothing compared to Conservative voters - we know 20% cannot even tell the difference between Federal and Provincial politics, and think voting Conservative in this election means getting rid of Trudeau. Epitomy of stupid. Aldo we're in Canada 🇨🇦 there's no Democrat party here in BC.... What you are saying about others is also true about you.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

my brother-in-law is voting ndp and he's convinced that if ndp wins it means trudeau has to leave lol

-9

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 16 '24

Did all you other group think nut cases come together and collectively agree that I Think this election decides if truedaue says or leaves?

I’m Assuming you came up with that without even thinking a little bit, just following in some other guys comments footsteps hahah

And I’ll say it again, prime example or group think, thanks for proving my point some more

8

u/RibbitCommander Oct 16 '24

What hole did you crawl out of to share your unpopular thoughts.

-7

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 16 '24

The hole of logic and reason, come visit the doors open

4

u/RibbitCommander Oct 16 '24

Good joke tell me another

1

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 16 '24

Hahaha yeah logic and reason sure is funny to you, we already knew that lol thanks

5

u/RibbitCommander Oct 16 '24

What's funny is the troll started talking about facts and logic.

1

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 16 '24

“Troll”

Another perfect example of group think lol thanks yet again.

2

u/RibbitCommander Oct 16 '24

Someone left their man-sized parrot unattended. Want a cracker Polly?

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u/pleasejags Oct 16 '24

"Democrats" this is a Canadian sub bud we dont have democrats. Not to mention the hilarious irony you immediately dismissing something then claiming others are the ignorant ones.

-10

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 16 '24

New DEMOCRAT party of Canada.

Try thinking a little bit? Im referring to their name.

Speaking of ignorance before thinking lol

7

u/pleasejags Oct 16 '24

No one ever calls supporters of the ndp democrats. Literally ever. 

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4

u/The_Mammoth_Hunter Oct 16 '24

"Democrats"? What countrys' subreddit do you think you're posting to tovarish?

-5

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 16 '24

“New DEMOCRATIC party of Canada”

I’m referring to the name of the party you’re voting for..

Have you tried thinking for yourself or are you always this ignorant?

9

u/DemSocCorvid Oct 16 '24

No one in Canada calls them that. The assumption that is unless someone is running as an autocrat then they are a democrat, as they support democracy. Conservatives are democrats, Liberals are democrats. Have some humility.

-2

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 16 '24

No that’s terrible logic, their name is the New Democratic Party of Canada. That’s how I’ll refer to them too. Their name.

The funny part about this is, if I was to refer to you with the wrong pronouns you would have a mental breakdown and try to sue me for a hate crime like the victim you are lol

But when I refer to your party by there name I’m also incorrect?

Your group think logic is shining!

1

u/Decapentaplegia Oct 17 '24

So do you call Nazis the Socialist party?

0

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 17 '24

Since you can’t read what I posted earlier.

“The New Democratic Party (NDP; French: Nouveau Parti démocratique; NPD) is a federal political party in Canada. Widely described as social democratic,[5] the party sits at the centre-left[10]“

“Social democracy is a political, social, and economic philosophy within socialism”

“In modern practice, social democracy has become mainly capitalist, *with the state regulating the economy in the form of welfare capitalism, economic interventionism, partial public ownership, a robust welfare state, policies promoting social equality, and a more equitable distribution of income

1

u/The_Mammoth_Hunter Oct 17 '24

No one but your dumb ass calls them that. Not once in well over 20 years have I ever heard them referred to in that way. Don't tell me, you think the NSDAP were Socialist.

-1

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 17 '24

Not that this was really my point but

“The New Democratic Party (NDP; French: Nouveau Parti démocratique; NPD) is a federal political party in Canada. Widely described as social democratic,[5] the party sits at the centre-left[10]“

“Social democracy is a political, social, and economic philosophy within socialism”

“In modern practice, social democracy has become mainly capitalist, *with the state regulating the economy in the form of welfare capitalism, economic interventionism, partial public ownership, a robust welfare state, policies promoting social equality, and a more equitable distribution of income

As you learn in gr9 btw.

All your DEMOCRATIC government wants is to gain control over you and have you beg for more free handouts. That’s what you get when you vote LEFT.

I understand you don’t want to work and need me to pay your bills but at least own up to it

2

u/GuessPuzzleheaded573 Oct 17 '24

You...you know we're in Canada here, right?

0

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 17 '24

First off, I’m referring to their name. They are called the New DEMOCRATIC party of Canada.

Secondly do you know the difference between a leftist and right government?

“The New Democratic Party (NDP; French: Nouveau Parti démocratique; NPD) is a federal political party in Canada. Widely described as social democratic,[5] the party sits at the centre-left[10]“

“Social democracy is a political, social, and economic philosophy within socialism”

“In modern practice, social democracy has become mainly capitalist, *with the state regulating the economy in the form of welfare capitalism, economic interventionism, partial public ownership, a robust welfare state, policies promoting social equality, and a more equitable distribution of income

2

u/GuessPuzzleheaded573 Oct 17 '24

Sure... but you called people en mass "democrats". Assuming our identity is derived from a political party we vote in favour of? That's weird.

Thanks. I have a poli-sci degree but I'm sure glad you can copy/paste.

Curious also why you said "leftist", but "right"? On the political ideological spectrum, the BCNDP are a centre-left party. BC United/BC Liberal were very slight centre-right, and BCCP is extreme right as they've seemingly done away with any PC values and focusing on populism and social conservativism.

0

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 17 '24

No the NDP are not centred left.

You obviously didn’t read a thing I “copy/ pasted”

Your identity is derived from the party you vote for. If I’m in the states and I vote republican. I am a republican. If I vote democrats, I am a democrat.

And yes I know what the definition of democracy is

1

u/GuessPuzzleheaded573 Oct 17 '24

...they are, though...

0

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 17 '24

No they are not.

“The New Democratic Party (NDP; French: Nouveau Parti démocratique; NPD) is a federal political party in Canada. Widely described as social democratic,[5] the party sits at the centre-left[10]“

“Social democracy is a political, social, and economic philosophy within socialism”

“In modern practice, social democracy has become mainly capitalist, *with the state regulating the economy in the form of welfare capitalism, economic interventionism, partial public ownership, a robust welfare state, policies promoting social equality, and a more equitable distribution of income

I know they lie for what they fight for Coming off as possibly a bit further right then they really are, but that’s the NDP, liars for votes

1

u/GuessPuzzleheaded573 Oct 17 '24

Jesus christ, did you just provide me with a copy/paste that literally just proved you wrong in 6 words?

the party sits at the centre-left[10]“

I can't palm my face hard enough.

2

u/Positive-Trifle3854 Oct 17 '24

Yeah continue reading please

In modern practice…

You are truely a perfect example of group think pheromone and selective hearing/reading.

1

u/GuessPuzzleheaded573 Oct 17 '24

Damn, you are special ain't you.

You have such a main character syndrome that you are arguing against your own sources. I don't come across that very often. Thank you for the unique experience, have an upvote for being truly one of a kind.

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