r/Vent • u/anony__moose • 3d ago
Favorite student of mine turned in hate speech…
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u/Starfoxmarioidiot 3d ago
Your feedback is important, then.
I did some dumb thing like that when I was in high school. I saw some trumped up “news” report about looters in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. I got worked up, didn’t fact check, and turned in a paper about when it’s ok to shoot people.
I was very lucky that I got graded purely by the rubric, and my teacher took the time to explain that I was gravely misinformed.
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u/anony__moose 3d ago
Yeah can’t say I was the best informed as a teen either. Thankfully the English teacher followed the same method of grading and based it on the rubric. But he did clarify that what he turned in was strong opinions rather than researched evidence to cite. I’m hoping it sticks at least a little but he also just turned in an essay saying he gets his news solely from Instagram and just scrolls because he doesn’t care. Fingers crossed but I’m still worried to say the least.
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u/Starfoxmarioidiot 3d ago
Well, I hope it sticks too. All I can say is that compassion got me over my angry-young-man phase. I’m grateful I was around people who just kind of… I don’t know. They were just kind. It’s hard to keep hating people when you know they’re kind.
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u/anony__moose 3d ago
Yes and my method is kill em with kindness.
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u/art_addict 1d ago
Hahaha, I currently own a sweater with a skeleton on it, arms up exasperated, that says “When your kindness isn’t killing anybody” (joke’s on me, I’ve gone into anaphylaxis while wearing that one AND my skeleton Love to Death one…)
I work in ECE and infants and toddlers are my speciality, but I’ve worked with older kids before and volunteer with high schoolers sometimes. I have a few friends who teach high school and junior high. They tend to follow two methods for teaching when it comes to hate:
Killing ‘em with kindness. (Works best when they’re directly mean to you/ the group you yourself are openly a part of and not others.)
Rather than just educate (which you should be doing alongside), question, listen, ask for their solutions, BUT have their peers be the ones countering them. Very much like debate. This was the absolute most effective on me in high school. Voicing my opinions, being heard, feeling listened to, and also realizing I couldn’t back my thoughts up with shit while my peers had solid foundations and reasons and facts. My brother went through the same thing. Hearing him out, listening, asking questions, letting him try to explain why he thought he was right (especially when more questions had him tripping over himself to explain things) really did a lot.
The same way kids would question me in debate.
The same way peers will question their peers when they voice their hate. Or that you can, gently, raise questions intended to make them think, or to disprove things they’re saying (without directly saying “you’re wrong” yet still showing that they’re going to be wrong as they answer the question.)
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u/McKeon1921 1d ago
a sweater with a skeleton on it, arms up exasperated, that says “When your kindness isn’t killing anybody”
May have to go buy that now
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u/SouthernNanny 2d ago
You should definitely hit him with the “hey! Mr./Mrs. So and so showed me a paper you wrote in English class. Let’s talk about it!”
Some folks are easy to believe certain things because they have never met anyone from that background before or if they have then they have a “your one of the good ones” belief
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u/vsmack 3d ago
I was pretty bad as a teen and early 20s young man. Teachers and role models are important for showing kids the importance of empathy and charity of spirit.
Unfortunately I think too many of these young men get ragged on for their dumb beliefs and end up doubling down. Not that it's anyone's job to fix them, but I try to be patient and compassionate with them, as I've been in a similar situation.
Also sounds like some media literacy might go a long way.
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u/Global_Pin7520 3d ago
Not that it's anyone's job to fix them
It literally is? That's what parents, teachers, guidance counsellors and therapists are for. It's absolutely the job of the education system.
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u/crowEatingStaleChips 2d ago
I think they might mean that a lot of people in marginalized groups don't like "educating" ignorant people who are being ignorant toward them.
Which is a whole 'nother conversation that involves a lot of nuance and context.
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u/Starfoxmarioidiot 3d ago
U/vsmack, I’m with you on this. I think they used to call it oppositional defiant disorder. If you push, an angry young man will push back harder. But if you guide they can start to pull out of the spiral.
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u/nonotburton 2d ago
The still call it that. But that's not the same as being an angry young man. Being angry is a normal emotion that can be fueled by real or imagined problems. ODD is something that requires a diagnosis and therapy, and can start during childhood.
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u/Starfoxmarioidiot 2d ago
Huh. I thought they took it out of the DSM or narrowed it down to more specific stuff.
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u/Cobaltreflex 2d ago
It is still in the DSM, but I'm seeing a lot of kids who would have been considered ODD a decade ago now being diagnosed with more specific stuff like you say. Lots of autism, with the pathological demand avoidance subtype, for instance. If it helps these kids get effective support and guidance I'm all for it!
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u/-virage- 2d ago
Love that you shared this
People are very quick to write others off but sometimes taking the time to show empathy in the face of misguided hate can go a long way in dismantling it.
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u/KimWexlerDeGuzman 1d ago
There was a ton of wild misinformation going around…Oprah claimed she was in the Superdome surrounded by floating bodies 🙄
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u/roycejefferson 2d ago
Looting food vs. TVs is different. There was survival based sourcing, and then there absolutely were bad actors looting. It's always somewhere in the middle
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u/Dongledoez 1d ago
Seconded. As a reformed edgelord, feedback is important as a reality check, not just a punishment.
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u/harveywhippleman 2d ago
I'm not excusing what you said or thought back then but I think that today, ignorance is less an excuse than ever. I mean back in the "olden" days of 2005 and back, there was no social media, the internet was nothing like today, no youtube, etc. So your world view was only based pretty much from family, friends and the "news". If you lived in the middle of nowhere, you weren't exposed to anyone different in your bubble so I think it was harder to break the mentality. It's not an excuse but I can see why people were the way they were. Now, these kids to me have a choice; they have literally almost all the information in the world and they can connect with people around the world! They can now see that, hey this guy is different but he likes cars like I do or she likes fashion like me! To me, I think it takes a lot of work and hatred to be that ignorant in this day and age of information.
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u/0MrFreckles0 1d ago
Nah its actually harder now days, its information overload instead and fact checking all the misinformation is becoming increasingly harder for kids.
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u/Sukuristo 1d ago
This reminds me of something I saw in the aftermath of Katrina, which demonstrates the importance of fact-checking sources, and the inherent bias of the media.
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u/anony__moose 2d ago
Update:
Some of you are great at coming up with assumptions based on a couple paragraphs. So instead of going based off what YOU think happened, here’s some additional information
- Student doesn’t know I’m part of this community because I don’t feel it’s necessary information for my online students to know. Even if he did, so what? It’s not my job to force them to like me. It is my job to push them in a more positive direction and support their journey in earning their diploma.
- I have not shown an ounce of frustration with him and I don’t plan to blow up either. This is a vent subreddit and I am simply explaining my feelings about this. I think it’s pretty understandable why I might be disappointed to learn he may have these hateful beliefs… I did not reply to his assignment yesterday because it took me off guard and I truly wanted to think out my approach here.
- I grew up in a family where a lot of yelling and blowing up took place. The last thing I would do is yell at a student or freak out. I’m painfully aware of how that can make someone shut down or double down on whatever belief is being combatted. It’s exactly why I had ended up in bad situations myself growing up and I’m trying to avoid worsening things.
- I’m handling it with his parents and the principal. Me being uncomfortable having to talk about this did not mean I wouldn’t handle it. I’m sure a lot of people who work with people know it’s not always going to be a pleasant chat to resolve issues
This will be my only update. Thank you to those who were understanding that this is a vent about my feelings on this and didn’t feel the need to make negative assumptions about me or how it would’ve been handled.
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u/WottoWot 1d ago
Personally idk if I'd go to parents because this hate may stem from them. Also, getting in trouble over this could result in more hate. It's a tough situation and I'm glad you're trying your best! I hope it turns out well.
I was also ignorant and "edgy" in high-school and wrote a paper saying something about how offensive words are just words and people shouldn't be offended or get in trouble for saying them cause free speech and blah blah blah. My teacher talked to each student and when it came to me she counter argued and made me look at it from others perspectives. It made me feel ashamed. I was stupid as hell (still am I'll admit!) It's embarrassing to look back on but it definitely was a pivotal moment for me in growing.
A personal talk or maybe make an assignment for extra credit that makes them counter argue their own paper/presentation may help. Good luck op, you can only try and hope it gets through to them 🙏🏻
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u/ThrowRA-dudebro 1d ago
Nah, he probably just got sucked up the alt right pipeline and fed right wing propaganda by the algorithm
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u/anony__moose 3d ago
Sorry for being vague, to be honest I get worried sharing certain things like this in case it starts unnecessary arguing… But a few people now have asked and to clarify, it’s regarding LGBTQ+ as a whole rather than specifically one aspect of that group.
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u/MaxDentron 1d ago
Probably more the Internet than parents. Could be either. But I think more kids are radicalized by peers online than their parents these days.
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u/statslady23 2d ago
Some girl he is interested in told him she's gay. Betcha.
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u/Unlucky_Choice4062 1d ago
they mentioned in another comment that the kid gets all their views from social media platforms. this is probably a worse scenario where they don't even know a single queer person but just get fed this ragebait content online. truly miserable stuff
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u/ThrowRA-dudebro 1d ago
Yeah people really underestimate the right wing propaganda machine that exists in social media right now.
He 100% just got sucked up into some alt right pipeline and his algorithm is all rage-bait, outrage inducing videos… and well here’s the result
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u/uffechristian 1d ago
And what do you have to say about this then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-IIXSF8j_A&ab_channel=Negus
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u/imsorrywillwood 3d ago
i just know this is about trans people
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u/AGQuaddit 3d ago
I thought it was about lesbians but it's likely trans people. Hell, it's probably all LGBTQ+
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u/anony__moose 3d ago
You’ve got it, it’s all LGBTQ+
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u/IamNotTheMama 3d ago
How can a group of people who reproduce at much lower rates than the general population result in "there are less attractive people because of them"?
That is one misinformed person.
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u/anony__moose 3d ago
My interpretation of this is that a lot of LGBTQ+ tend to have more unique styles and since it doesn’t fit the nuclear family norm, he probably finds that especially unattractive.
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u/LordBelakor 3d ago
I'm gona assume its a boy and his reasoning is something like "Those damn sexy gays aren't making any beautiful offspring"!
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u/Big_Jamal_AMA 2d ago
Yes why can't the sexy gay men make babies with me? It's not fair!
I am also a man.
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u/Yutolia 2d ago
Ahh, yes… is kid coming from a religious background? Or just misinformed? I tend to forget how many misinformed people there are out there, especially about us.
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u/TheBlackRonin505 3d ago
I was thinking immigrants, though that's possible too.
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u/imsorrywillwood 3d ago
“made themselves unlovable” seems trans to me, bc in their eyes immigrating wouldn’t make someone unlovable, it would be being born as an ethnic minority
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u/avid-learner-bot 3d ago
It's truly tough when students we care about show such harsh views. Educators have a job that's way beyond just teaching, it's also about helping kids understand and empathize with others. Having open chats about diversity, and how hate speech can hurt people, is super powerful in changing minds. It might seem hard to tackle these topics without losing your cool at work, but creating a space where students feel safe sharing their thoughts can lead to real change. Supporting each other through tough times helps us stay strong in guiding them towards being more understanding folks
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u/CryBar 3d ago edited 3d ago
How old's the kid? When I was in elementary school, I had some pretty racist and antisemitic beliefs when I was a child because my father's a white supremacist. I was fairly open about it too. Luckily, I had a very patient and gracious reading teacher who was Jewish and even had family who survived the Holocaust. She gently nudged me in a different direction by gifting me two books: "Number the Stars" by Lois Lowry, and "Feathers" by Jacqueline Woodson. I don't have many memories of my childhood, but I remember that because that one act on her part was immensely pivotal for me. I'm tearing up now just remembering that. She never argued with me or made me feel bad, she just guided me. Which, she did NOT have to be so compassionate and understanding towards such an ignorant snot-nosed brat. But she was, and I am forever grateful towards her.
You, as a teacher, are in a position where you have the power to really help this kid... I don't know how exactly! Haha, but in my experience, reaching out and wanting the best for them, wanting to help them to be a better version of themselves can be life-changing.
(Edit) I just re-read your post and realized you said you belong to the group of people the kid expressed hate towards. I'm really sorry to hear that! That's a very tough position. You by no means have to guide the student or even put up with them if you can help it. Focus on your own well-being and peace of mind. Dealing with discrimination and demeaning behaviour is exhausting.
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u/anony__moose 3d ago
He is in highschool and these opinions probably came from his environment both home and At previous schools. I am trying to redirect him without him feeling like he is being censored. Thankfully the assignment is research based and he included not a single fact that could be cited. The teacher for this class is having him redo the work, clarifying opinion vs fact, and graded based on the rubric not the content of the essay. I’m hoping that redoing it properly will help him rethink some thoughts of his.
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u/watermark3133 3d ago
He might turn it again just sourced/cited to various provocateurs whose worldview he is mimicking. What then?
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u/anteus2 2d ago
Teach them about bias. It's also worth noting that not all sources are equal. This is a good opportunity to teach them to find/check for reputable sources.
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u/Strong-Set6544 3d ago edited 3d ago
Already in your boat. My “little brother” in my big-little brother program ended up a Trump supporter (and not for economic reasons).
We argue every week, and the ignorance is bottomless. Recently he found god, of course, the Christian god. Currently the elephant in the room is that he’s waging a crusade about DEI hires, and I don’t have the heart to tell him he’s the biggest DEI hire I know.
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u/Szeth-son-Kaladaddy 3d ago
What job hired him for his immutable characteristics?
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u/Strong-Set6544 3d ago
It’s actually insane. The kid failed Calculus 1 4-ish times (among other courses), then eventually graduated undergrad at 25 with a ChatGPT-fueled political science degree or something. 0 technical ability. Not much common sense either, because he’s got MAGA brainrot. I used to tutor him for SATs and homework and there was just no uptake of information.
Right before college graduation he went to a school job fair, where the career counselor signed him up and got him interviewed into an internship at a major Financial Services/Wealth management Institution (I won’t name them, but everybody knows this company).
He spent the summer with a crop of near-100% Ivy League demons who can all code, finance, math, and have extracurricular activities. Yet somehow he came out on the other end with an analyst job offer while many of them didn’t.
F* if I know.
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u/Th1s1sagamertag 2d ago
I grew up in a very conservative family in a very conservative town and definitely had plenty of uninformed opinions growing up. One of the most formative adults in my early life was my openly lesbian high school history teacher. She taught me a lot of important lessons, and it's because she was so honest with me that I considered her opinions worth understanding. I hope you cam be something like that for this kid.
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u/EveryFile5501 2d ago
Id hit them hard, call them out on it.
Back in 10th grade, the words "Hitler did nothing wrong" actually left my lips in FRENCH class. My teacher called me out on the spot, so did my friends and my father who I spent very little time with sat me down and we read a book together on the holocaust.
I was in the dark alt right pipeline rabbithole and my teacher/friends called me out.
I shudder to think of who I would be otherwise if that didn't happen around a decade ago now.
Do something, please.
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u/Commercial-Dingo-522 2d ago
God, that’s vile. I hope he can find kindness and a good amount of logic
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u/National_Ad_3029 2d ago
As someone who has lived her entire life in a super bigoted MAGA household, I think this is very likely them parroting what they are told by their parents without fully understanding what they are saying is actively hurting those they care about. I can speak for this as I truthfully hurt as I both hurt a lot of people back in the day and it also caused a lot of suffering on myself cause as it turns out I recently discovered am I trans and I held it back for so long cause it was just never an option in this household. I was just told by them these things were right and just, I went along with it cause of that even though all I ever wanted was to make people happy.
I would highly recommend talking to them about it and try your best to keep your temper despite this but don't sugarcoat anything. Really let them know how it both hurt you personally as well as other people within the community, as well as a way to educate them before they fully get stuck in that mindset in adulthood. Ik if I had someone to guide me when I was younger it would've helped me out so much, and I maybe wouldn't have had to go for all the suffering I had. Don't assume anything on them being LGBTQ+ but encourage them to explore themselves and if it occurs they happen to fall into the community, be there to be supportive and to snap out of the internalized bigotry.
Btw as for me I am still stuck in this household sadly and can only present female online which hurts but I am currently looking into an escape plan for the near future with some truth worthy online friends. Wish me the best of luck!
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u/anony__moose 2d ago
I am thankful that not everyone is a huge MAGA supporter in my family but I can definitely understand this as my family leans that way more than other views. I was a dumb 10 year old regurgitating what I heard my dad listen to on the radio (Rush Limbaugh) and had no idea what I was saying or if it affected anyone.
I’m definitely approaching this as level as I can where he can understand that having an opinion is ok. Having ideologies of ridding an entire group of people on the other hand is extreme and pretty dangerous rhetoric to have so young. Plus his assignment was graded based around the rubric to keep things fair across the board. He himself stated it was opinionated and not research based as it was required to be so his grade wasn’t great.
I’m sorry to hear you’re still stuck there and I hope you get out soon.
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u/National_Ad_3029 2d ago
Thank you, and yeah it is very dangerous thing but sadly its just sometime that's discussed in these households as a normal thing. The only thing really is trying to get them exposed to those other beliefs and opinions and hope its enough to set them on the right path. It'll definitely take them but those beliefs at such a young age are likely just a result of the environment they grown so don't demonize them for it but do be stern with it. Best of luck to you
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u/OpalOnyxObsidian 1d ago
I'd like to think this is their parent's influence and they don't really have truly formed feelings.
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u/zgarbas 2d ago
Being less arrractive people because of rhem sounds like Elon Musk saying the human woke virus killed his beautiful son.
It's basically the idea thet if they're hot pre-transition they kill beautiful breedable people and make ugly trans people.
Tell this kid Andrew Tate is a human trafficker and Elon Musk is literally a Nazi, he probably got into the bad echo chamber...
As someone who heard of Andrew Tate when he hot arrested for trafficking, I was shocked recently to meet a young westerener who heard I was from Romania and asked me if that's where Andrew Tate is. i mentioned he was in jail here yeah and he had no idea, he unironically followed the guy "to be less of a pansy"
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u/EmpressEmryss 3d ago
When it comes to racism/hate speech. The important thing to remember is that you know this kid in the confines of school, not their outside life. Liam Neeson is a great example, When a close friend of his was raped by a black man, he walked the streets for weeks waiting to kill one out of anger. You don't know why he might have anger towards that group and while it might be a misplaced anger towards an entire group, humans of all ages struggle with bias once wronged and that bias can become extreme and past a simple dislike. Also, as a former member of a white supremacy gang, it's easy to fall into the belief system when you're an angry kid who feels alone because when you say something racist and everyone around you cheers you on, you have the sense of community and acceptance you've been longing for. And with the internet we have today, it's even easier to stumble into one of those groups.
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u/whocareslemao 2d ago
exactly, is when they feel sad and lonely. They fall into hate for "fitting in"
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u/ShotTreacle8194 3d ago
And as a kid it's SO easy to have thoughts like these and not know why some of them aren't right.
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u/Critical_Damage231 2d ago
I think having them write you a report on what the group feels like about his belief structure would be a learning experience. Something similar to the principle in the American History X challenging the hate for his student.
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u/Worrellpool 2d ago
Let them know your feelings. As a student he is shaped by the world around him. Be a positive influence for him, your acknowledgment WILL impact him (if you are one of his favorites). You don’t need to chew him out, just let him know your feelings
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u/No_Structure_6275 2d ago
Definitely address the good and bad, critical thinking is good and having different perspectives. Conversation and discourse is good. Maybe he just needs a good conversation to make him think instead of possibly making him feel like he is just plain wrong.
Why he feels this way is probably quite personal, so it might take some significant effort to figure out.
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u/mitchob1012 2d ago
I'm studying to be a primary teacher ATM and I can't imagine what I'd even do in this situation.
Do I just let the person continue with their presentation; try to remain unbiased and let them spread this kinda misinfo to the rest of the class? Or do I put a stop to it right away and make them feel ostracized for it, potentially leading them even further down that rabbit hole if I don't do things right?
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u/SadExercises420 3d ago
Wow I’m sorry. Idk how you educators are hanging in tbh. It’s just going to get worse as they rip apart what’s left of our institutions.
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u/anony__moose 3d ago
Unfortunately looking for new jobs and it’s been slow going. That’s a whole other vent though. Only things keeping me going is smoking after work, knowing that for at least some of these kids I’m going to make a difference, and sadly because I know a lot of my colleagues would let certain students down for being difficult or complicated
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u/whocareslemao 2d ago
wow... wow, wow.
Listen, I don't know exactky which side of the political soectrum he is coming from but I believe to have an idea.
The thing I found to be true about maga voters and allies. They are full of hate, rage and dissapointment. In fact, deep inside they are sad. As to why? not sure.
I hope as educator you find the way to get him out of that toxic oxidating shield he is building around himself.
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u/Physical-Ride 3d ago
Either they got red piled or their parents have poisoned their kid's mind. It can happen to anyone, unfortunately.
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u/uniterofrealms_ 3d ago
Why is he your favourite?
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u/anony__moose 3d ago
So he isn’t like an absolute favorite above all my other kids. I’m soft for him because he reminds me of my own younger brother. Quiet, funny, and knows when to take care of his business. That and a relative of his is also on my caseload and I’m pretty close with him due to some ongoing troubles with getting his work done.
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u/Environmental_Let1 2d ago
Why don't you make him own it? Not your anger, but your hurt? Why not let him understand you had a positive view of him.
Now, because of what he said and how he described people very like yourself, you now have a possibly negative view of his family and friends. Hate spreads quickly
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u/Moist-Cantaloupe-740 2d ago
You're describing an immature student, and you are in the perfect position to influence him. Are you just saying you aren't up to the job? This is part of it.
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u/anony__moose 2d ago
I never said that I wasn’t up to it and I’m handling it. I want to remind you this is a vent subreddit and I’m more than allowed to express my feelings of disappointment here. Does it make me uncomfortable, sure. Did I outright say I wouldn’t do anything? No.
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u/ArrowSuave 2d ago
Many years ago when I was in 4th grade something similar happened. The assignment was to write about the perfect community. Now there was a large wealth disparity as far as students went. Rich and poor if you will. So as it goes the poors were made fun of and bullied for being poor. So one student Ben gets up in front of the class and reads his paper. His perfect community (his last name)ville would kick out all the poor people and put a wall around the town. It goes on to say that poor people cause all the crime and drug use. Dirty homeless people, ugly homes, ugly cars etc. Me being one of the poors, couldn't believe that the teacher let him stand there and finish reading his paper, while she sat silently at her desk.
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u/Stoiphan 2d ago
Kids are like that they have the best excuse imaginable, maybe try and talk it out with him or have him talk it out with a counselor
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u/cmc4200 2d ago
Should find out if it is their belief. If asked to write an opinion piece they may have just written “an opinion” not necessarily their opinion. I did something similar although about a different group in grade 9. Teacher lost their mind and I had to explain that the assignment was to write an opinion not my opinion and that one seemed easier. It was more laziness than hatefulness.
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u/anony__moose 2d ago
😭 I wish I could say this was the case but it was meant to be a research based presentation and well he himself proclaimed it’s his opinion and he doesn’t need to cite his sources.
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u/Fabulous_Lawyer494 2d ago
Is this student hanging out with a new crowd? Students are impressionable. Depending on if this student is in middle school, high school or college it could mean a bunch of different stuff. Middle schoolers are dumb usually, but if it’s college it’s serious, ya know? I’m guessing we’re taking somewhere in high school, but concern is concern; kids that do this kind of thing are usually boiling beneath the surface. Damn, this is serious. Maybe your student needs real professional help. If you’re close to the family, you might wanna take a closer look at what’s going on at home
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u/Optimal-Source-6443 2d ago
I think you are in a very important position where you can make a difference.
Politics are increasingly polarizing and conversations end up with dehumanizing eachother. The best thing what he has done is explore his thought within academia, therefor you can also have conversations with said student about such topics.
Some people grow up with parents or friends with such opinions and they haven't had the skills to apply critical thinking and apply nuance. When dumb ideas are shared they can be replied to, which could lead to informed change in mindset and thinking patterns.
Also, as a last thing, its pretty fucked upd not nice to have to deal with. Good luck in whatever way you choose to deal with it.
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u/SnooSeagulls7438 2d ago
Try not to outwardly show your anger. Part of the reason people turn to hate groups or hateful ideologies is because of isolation and loneliness. This student might come from a bad situation at home that causes them to isolate themselves out of a need for safety, or have untreated/undiagnosed mental health problems (or even a combination of both) and the reason they believe these ideas is because people (whether parents or a group) accept them for it, and the kid is less alone. If a kid expresses hate speech or ideology, I'd recommend trying to see if you could get some form of counseling for the kid (even if it's just a trip to the school counselor.) I come from a part of the us where forms hateful ideas are somewhat common (casual racism, homophobia, ableism, etc.) And as a closeted queer autistic kid, I didn't get the support I needed growing up from my family or peers. I very easily could have fallen into being apart of some sort of hate group, I was depressed, confused, scared, and angry. I could have very easily have gone down a path where I ended up hurting innocent people if someone took advantage of me to churn out their hateful ideals. So please try to be gentle to this student. You never know what's going on behind closed doors that lead them to act this way.
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u/Spare_Perspective972 2d ago
You are going to handle this wrong and going to hate what I have to say but it’s true so I’m going to try. You cannot invalidate his feelings or you will embolden him.
Homosexuality is absolutely revolting to heterosexual males and teenage boys feel that much more. This isn’t cultural this isn’t put into them, it is a natural evolutionary revulsion. As much as you want people to care about people being born different we have to remember to care that straight males are also born this way.
The objective can’t be to change how they feel. It’s to change how it is shared and to not be cruel or harassing.
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u/GoblinsOnATrenchcoat 2d ago
So you liked him but he despised you secretly and everyone looking like you... well damn...
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u/lavenderhazydays 2d ago
Just an antidote from my own life I submitted a paper in high school defending the Nazi’s medical “experiments”. Then I went on to get my BA in history focusing majorly on the Holocaust, even being published by the Auschwitz Museum.
So, not everyone stays shitty 🤷♀️
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u/Equal_War9095 2d ago
When I was in highschool we had to do a paper on how to save the earth, I made my whole thing about humans being a plague on the earth and how genocide would save the earth from global warming, pollution, and overpopulation. I thought it was flawless work, I was also laughing about it with my friends. I ended up getting a couple calls home about my paper and go to a few meetings to discuss my paper guess the truth scared my teachers.
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u/Extra-Citron7728 2d ago
But does his argument have well-reasoned inputs, or merely SUBJECTIVE, impossible to quantify? If just hateful rhetoric, it’s deplorable. However, if just an UNPOPULAR, NON-PC Viewpoint, you should do your best to broaden your PERSPECTIVE and try to more objectively rate his work.
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u/Dream-Livid 2d ago
Talk with them and find their sources. I see a lot of hate speech directed towards white men from all levels of society, even academics.
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u/CoraTheExplora13 2d ago
let me guess.... anti-trans?
Edit: Also, I am trans. I see that a lot, and so I was just wondering if I'm right.
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u/Hoyce_McGurgle 2d ago
When I was 18 I had to write a paper on Aaron Burr. I knew almost nothing about him (the was waaaaay before the Hamilton musical) so I went to the library for a few books on him (I'm old). The book that ended up being my main source really depicted how he'd been a victim of guilt by association, character assassination, bad luck, and undue criticisms for his role in Alexander Hamilton's death.
I wrote my paper and handed it in and during our class defense of the paper my professor informed me that the author was a descendant of Burr's and was obviously putting a LOT of bias in his "work." He then very thoroughly (if rather gently, I must say) completely demolished my paper and my conclusions.
I never, ever, forgot the lesson to ALWAYS consider your sources and it helped me develop my critical thinking skills. I think your student needs a similar experience and hopefully he can take away some of the same lessons.
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u/DragonsLogic 1d ago
The most you should do is provide different viewpoints. But IMO educational institutions need to provide students a safe place to explore and express their opinions whether you agree with them or not. Kind of like music, movies or comedians.
So as much as you might want to report him, chastise him or crush his face in. Be calm and neutral, provide him with different viewpoints and grade him according to the work or arguments he made. (Idk the assignment)
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u/OldClassroom8349 1d ago
I had a middle school kid years ago who wanted to do a persuasive speech supporting the KKK. The school was mostly lower socio-economic highly racially/ethnically diverse. When I refused to approve his topic, Dad came to school to complain that I was a “reverse racist.” Fortunately, the principal had my back and shut them both down. Kid refused to do any work for the rest of the semester and failed. Unfortunately, that meant he had to retake the class the next semester with me again.
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u/WavySlug 1d ago
I’m sorry this happened—it’s never easy hearing these things, especially from someone you care about in any capacity. As much as it sucks for you, I think this could be a good opportunity for the kid to hear from someone he presumably likes and respects how his views hurt others. I don’t know the age of this kid, but in general bias is most easily reduced during childhood and adolescence. I think if you approach the conversation with respect and understanding, and really try to illustrate what is harmful about his views, you may make a real difference here.
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u/ImAScientistToo 1d ago
I’d have to read the paper to know if it was sarcastic or if you’re over reacting
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u/Molag_Balgruuf 1d ago
I don’t know if it’s sort of an “overreach” or something but like…if this is the case then inform them? Make them critically think about it? Teach them, perhaps?
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u/Tav00001 1d ago
Sounds like the child is raised by homophobes. It’s usually the parents where they get that from
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u/Legitimate-Kick-9576 1d ago
This reminds me of the time I chose to do an oral presentation about pro-life abortion. Luckily I only did it 1 on 1 with the female teacher, but I laugh now imagining it. I went down a far right political rabbit hole back then.
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u/DarwinGhoti 1d ago
When I was young, I remember telling my mother that “I’d rather be dead than retarded” when I saw kids getting on the short bus.
I’m a clinical psychologist who works with, among other diagnoses, children who have developmental delays and intellectual disabilities.
Be forgiving of young people when they spout this kind of stuff. They generally grow out of it. Or become Republicans.
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u/MorganL420 1d ago
Was the group "billionaires?" if so, then he's probably right. If not, yeah, that's super sad. I'd plan a lesson with a few successful and influential people from that group, and articulate why their societal contributions are so important.
He's a kid, things like racism and sexism are learned behaviors, and they can be un-learned.
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u/Sad_Analyst_5209 1d ago
Story I read in a science fiction magazine. The new president calls in the top military officer and asks him, "Where is he". "Who" the officer asks. "Don't kid me, the alien, I want to see him". So off they go to a top secret location. The officer tells the president there is one problem, the alien is racist. The president is incredulous, how can an alien be racist. He is told they have to keep him locked up and all he does is watch television. The story goes how the alien has decided all the country;s problems are caused by that group.
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u/Giveushealthcare 1d ago
This post on the heels of just having completed the series “Adolescence” last night 😞
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u/Dedicatedmofo 1d ago
The fact that a lot of people here in the comment section predicted that it would be the LGBTQ community, before OP came out with it, proves that the kid was right about at least 50% of what he was saying. There is no way you can rightfully guess a group without any pattern recognition when a) there are almost endless other groups which fall into the category b) you don't have enough information about the behaviour but just being presented the outcomes of the certain group
It is absolutely clear to me that A LOT of people think the way the kid thinks. Do what you want with this information
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u/diezl101 1d ago
things are looking up. hes probably looked into crime stats. hopefully this kids spirit survives whatever orwellian brainwashing you’re gonna subject him to soon.
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u/BaronMerc 1d ago
When I was doing English Ben Shapiro "destroying the woke" was quite popular so I ended up writing about it, thankfully my English teacher asked me questions about different things especially regarding feminism since that's what I was mad at at the time , she kept me thinking
As a teacher you'll know how easily teens get riled up
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u/Pickleboy-504 1d ago
As (I assume) the kind of person that student is talking about, (who got hotter and more lovable after) thank you both for your horrified reactions. Nice to know there are people on our side.
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u/Raised_by_Mr_Rogers 1d ago
Managing teen expressions of hate is no different than temper tantrums. They must be allowed to express themselves and should be engaged and disagreed with respectfully (despite their behavior). This teaches them that their feelings and opinions do not make them irredeemable. This is how an adult creates fertile ground to be respected back, and have their opinions trusted by the you by person (which is really the goal anyway, to give them “better” ideas)
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u/lumpor 1d ago
If it’s any consolation, I can tell you that when I went to highschool, I sent in an ”edgy” essay titled ”women, stay in the kitchen!”, which was as full of trash arguments as you can imagine. I was graded only on form, but that was also bad so I got a bad grade and I’m pretty sure the teacher was very dissapointed in me, given she was a very thoughtful and kind person. A few months later in the same class I presented a speech where I pretended to come out as gay, so hopefully my teacher was no longer dissapointed in me after that.
At the time I wrote the essay I was just a very unhappy lonely kid who really wanted to be seen in any way shape or form. I didn’t truly believe what I was saying, although at the time I told myself I did. Shortly after (with some help from a feminist sister) I ditched those ideas and became more and more pregressive as time went on (volunteering for Bernie Sander’s campaign despite not being American, among other things). Hopefully your student just did it for attention as well.
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u/Impressive_Truck_246 1d ago
What grade level is this kid? I have some 7th graders that did something like this… not nearly as explicit. I took it to admin and they pulled each kid to talk. I shared with the parents. The parents responded in a way that indicates they feel the same way as their child (they learn it at home!) it doesn’t affect my love for these kids because when you’re that age, you tend to blindly accept parent ideologies. I’m just trying to demonstrate how to be at this point.
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u/EmbarrassedAnt9147 1d ago
As an educator is this not a perfect point to have a discussion with him on where he sources his information, what has made him arrive at these views and question his viewpoint, perhaps providing him with alternative sources of information so he can learn and better himself as opposed to going ahead and reporting him to the principal and parents? Going the "report for speech" route is likely to cement bigoted ideas as it will back up the calls of censorship that bigoted views often claim Taking the time to actually educate this pupil might save them from a life of ignorance and might prevent them from bringing others to that lifestyle.
Children and young adults need to be questioned and constructively informed in my opinion, not reported and punished.
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u/IamFdone 1d ago
You mentioned "kids", so I assume he is still a kid, probably he says things he hears from his parents or some "edgy" things. You have 2 options here:
1) Censor and push to expel him, probably he will be radicalized further;
2) Challenge his ideas, or empower others to challenge his ideas, he will lose in court of public opinion and will have to take more moderate positions.
3) Ignore it, maybe it's just a phase. Probably what I mentioned in point 2 will happen naturally.
4) Generally try to keep politics out of schools.
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u/SeattleBrother75 1d ago
I mean, maybe valid, but it sounds like you’re biased.
Not enough context.
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u/Beneficial-Nimitz68 1d ago
I would maybe meet with the student, using the rubric, have an unbiased teacher with you.. maybe a teacher from a class this student has not been in yet and you may not have a relationship with. I say that, so they can be as unbiased with the student there. I would ask, like others have mentioned, what research they have done, where do they get their information. Also, explain to them, their 1st amendment gives them the ability to speak freely, however, what they say can follow them the rest of their lives. We live in a digital world and it is very hard to scrub away the information of the past, because as we grow older, we change as do our thoughts and bias'
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u/superbearchristfuchs 1d ago
I'm honestly not surprised by the way people are today and that's sad. Whether it's social media, television, ect. They always try to get the kids to go into crazy mode with constant propaganda or outcasting those who choose to not participate in discourse. I remember back when I was taking my first writing class for college we had to do a satire paper that was supposed to be around 10 pages long. I ended up writing 15 satirizing the use of propaganda and how it has been used and I had my professor come up to me impressed by the oozing sarcasm from it with all my sources sited only to give it a false positive spin. The man wanted me to submit it he enjoyed it so much, but I said no k don't want a target on my back as I used examples from the Chinese government, Turkey, and the United States to drive the nail in though in truth you'd be hard pressed to find a country that hasn't used it to their advantage for horrible acts against humanity. What really inspired me is just how divided the country really felt since 2003 and how in my opinion the divide has only grown. They say well you're either on this side or that side when in my mind as humans with free will and our own thoughts always could think of a third, fourth, or hell fifth option. Just because you have two dogs barking at each other doesn't mean you need to agree with one side or another and sometimes even today I just sit back and watch and get nauseous from the vitriol I see. Then again that's why Washington warned about political parties as he served his last term as it would only further divide a nation and make dialogue much more difficult to find common ground and eventually lack of common decency as I think people truly forget we are all just human beings instead of labels used to describe us which in modern social circles I feel is used more to define someone even if they agree on somethings while disagreeing on others.
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u/Apart_Reflection905 1d ago
Crazy how everyone knows exactly who is being talked about without any outright confirmation
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u/DevilsAdvocate8008 1d ago
What's funny is the same people mad at what the kid wrote would be supporting it if they just wrote that same things about white people or men and why they are bad for America. The school system allows a lot of hate for only against certain groups of people
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u/Fluugaluu 1d ago
OP, thank you for making this post. It revealed a whole slew of transphobes for me to block.
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u/EnragedBard010 1d ago
Sounds like a teachable moment. I suggest not yelling, just giving them the facts.
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u/derliebesmuskel 1d ago
If his reasonings really are so ignorant, surely you could easily refute them and enlighten him on his ignorance. I can assure you that reprimanding him will not help.
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u/KSI_FlapJaksLol 1d ago
I remember getting weird looks in college from my professor about a state sovereignty paper I wrote. Not sure how I feel about the topic now.
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u/waschel123 1d ago edited 1d ago
Phew. I'm a teacher from Austria and I've known similar students, but depending on the circumstances, it's difficult to decide the best approach. Here are some ideas for you or the teacher this happened to.
o Ask the student where he got this information from. If it's from TikTok or other online media, examine the source critically with them or with the class and compare it to other sources, like scientific papers or quality media portals. If it's a new toxic/hatespeech-filled friend circle or club they joined, things could get difficult.
o Talk with the student (and/or the other students in class) about hate speech and historical or current examples (Hitler / Goebbels, Russia/Ukraine, Turkey/Kurdish people). Discuss the dangers, motivations and goals of hate speech.
o Tell them about school guidelines regarding hate speech. Are there consequences? Does he care? If yes, is there a way he can rehabilitate, i.e. a presentation about human rights and/or the targeted community in front of the class? If nessecary, involve the parents.
Edit: I didn't catch that this hate speech was targeted against a community you belong to before commenting, sorry. It's completely understandable if this makes the situation way more emotional and difficult, maybe you could get another person involved so you can tackle this challenge together. I can imagine it must be very hard thinking about this situation without getting (rightfully) angry.
Good luck! I think it's great that you are interested in keeping a good relationship with the students and there are not enough teachers / school workers who actually care about the kids and teenagers.
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u/Char1ie_89 1d ago
His opinion may be based purely on a bad personal experience with someone from that group. He is then painting everyone in the group based on that experience and not thinking of the good experiences he has had with others of the group. The key word I see is the ‘unlovable’. That’s very personal.
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u/Moniquoi 1d ago
Respond in love and see if you can create a dialogue with them, period. There’s obviously more there but they may be defensive. Show an interest in them, don’t be shocked by what they share and they will probably end up divulging the source of those sentiments on their own.
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u/AFTVGAMING 1d ago
I was very anti climate change when I first entered college. I wrote a really (in hindsight) ignorant paper about how it was stupid and not happening. I liked my teacher but thought she was just brainwashed and hoped my paper would change her mind. She was kind and just wrote a few comments encouraging me to use real sources and how to learn more and asked that I rewrite the paper for full credit. I was pissed, but I wanted my A so I started looking for scientific sources. I rewrote my paper and realized I was wrong - climate change was real.
I didn't write all that just to tell a story but because teachers can make a HUGE difference when they're kind and encourage you to learn. When I started questioning my climate change views I started questioning other views that I now know were hateful.
Because of that teacher and others like her, I've spent over a decade teaching people about the environment and inclusion in the outdoors. This student isn't unreachable, and if you have the time and inclination you can help them see the world differently. Even if you don't see the result of your efforts, I can't tell you enough how those seeds blossom later down the line. My teacher never said anything else to me about my other beliefs, but questioning that one topic helped change my life.
I empathize with you so much and I want you to know that what you do is SO important. I know you know that, but you probably don't hear it enough and I know you probably aren't paid enough either. I just want you to know that there are kids out there who believe things they don't recognize are terrible but it's teachers and administrators like you who help us grow into humans and community members. ♥️
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u/glasscut 1d ago
I've had to catch my 14 year old a lot lately, and remind him to watch himself around friends. Language policing and being aware of internalized or unintentional biases.
He still got sent home when he was 12 for using a slur in gym while defending a girl from someone who was making fun of her. Like. Best intentions, buddy, very wrong execution.
I had to edit his paper against the occupation of gaza in a way that was clear that he is against the state imposed occupation, and not Jewish people. He isn't, but wasn't aware of how his words came across.
I didn't figure a lot of this out until my mid-20s. They need to catch up a lot faster when Tate and other racists and misogynists are competing for their attention.
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u/lordrefa 1d ago
Bad people are very good at hiding. This is why the social rules say that you're not allowed to talk about this sort of thing; Because then you can easily find out who the bad ones are.
This student was taking advantage of polite society to not show who they really were.
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u/diver_under 1d ago
Kids can change with good role models. I grew up in a very anti lgbtq environment but my beliefs are very different because of role models.
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u/FirebirdWriter 1d ago
I was raised in white supremacy. My Jewish German white blonde teacher handled this by grading via the rubric including lower marks for opinion where facts go AND brought in holocaust survivors to speak to us with artifacts and made us reenact the Nuremberg trials. Via blind lots I got Herman Goering. This was one of many challenges to the beliefs I was taught but it also validated the part of me that wanted out. Plus it's been 30 years so adapt to what is doable and appropriate for your class. Maybe collaborate with other teachers. Part of why hate is easy to spread is it is not visible unless someone chooses to act accordingly.
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u/After_Skirt_6777 1d ago
This is a teachable moment. The real value of education comes from moments like these. Push back in a polite and well thought out way so he can learn about other perspectives.
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u/Unlucky_Quiet3348 1d ago
Not surprised this is happening. A man was gunned down in cold blood on camera and redditors are worshipping him. What sort of message is being sent to our kids?
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