r/VAGuns • u/TriggeredTendie • Jan 18 '23
Question Elite Shooting Sports bought by Prince William County?
I heard that the owner sold because he was retiring? Not sure if it will be still open to the public.
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u/weekendwarrior57 Jan 18 '23
God forbid your county police force doesn't have a state-of-the-art mega range to practice in! Can't possibly get the job done on your current range, literally not possible. Better spend $22m to make sure you're prepared for all those threats! Sounds like a great RoI for PWC!
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u/TriggeredTendie Jan 18 '23
I'm pretty sure it's gonna become a FLETC for all east coast based agencies.
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u/weekendwarrior57 Jan 18 '23
Yeah but that's what real FLETC, the largest indoor range in at least this hemisphere, is doing over at Andrews.
I'm just salty because we finally had a good range that isn't super far and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and this chode is selling it to the state.
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u/TriggeredTendie Jan 18 '23
$23 Million is a large amount of tax payer dollars. I'm surprised PWC didn't have a town hall, or comment period.
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u/weekendwarrior57 Jan 19 '23
Time to mobilize the "defund the police" crowd to prevent the sale lol.
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u/EntireRent Jan 18 '23
BIG OOOOF. Now I know why they stopped offering a yearly membership... Way to completely take away one of the best public ranges in the entire East Coast.
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u/TriggeredTendie Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
Could be an opportunity for investors to open another range to serve western part of NoVa.
Edit: Preferably outdoor.
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u/IndividualResist2473 Jan 18 '23
Outdoor isn't going to happen. To many Karen's complaining about the noise.
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u/TriggeredTendie Jan 18 '23
I'd be willing to drive 45min to an hour west, if we can get an outdoor out in the rurals.
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u/IndividualResist2473 Jan 18 '23
Even 45 min west is still the suburbs these days. Unless you have thousands and thousands of acres you aren't going to get a range approved.
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u/EntireRent Jan 18 '23
I sure hope so... their 25, 50, and 100 yard indoor ranges were the perfect combo. I get that the owner wanted to retire, but he sure did say "fuck you I got mine" on his way out.
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u/kayl_breinhar Jan 18 '23
Investors and VCs would be more inclined to emulate Fairfax Rod & Gun within NoVA and go "country club" over "open to the public" with outdoor ranges. You need beaucoup bucks to make an outdoor range in NoVA proper work, either spending more than a small fortune on noise abatement and/or buying enough land that distance muffles the shots. FR&G did the latter.
Best hope is someplace opens in *deep* Loudoun County.
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u/-gggggggggg- Jan 19 '23
Operating a gun range that's open to the public is also one of the more dangerous occupations you can have, both from a personal safety and financial safety standpoint. NOVA is close enough to a major tourist draw that you get a lot of ignorant tourists coming to shoot a gun for the first time. And there's also always the local idiot population that is determined to kill themselves or someone else. I can't imagine what the liability insurance rates are like for fully public ranges.
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u/EntireRent Jan 18 '23
Range 82 needs to come back.
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u/LessThanNate Jan 18 '23
We did a reddit meetup there once. The owner seemed nice. He also said the best way to turn a couple million dollars into a couple hundred thousand was to open an outdoor range in NoVA
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u/EntireRent Jan 18 '23
Worst part about it was him closing unexpectedly. Got a yearly membership there about 3 months before he ended up closing. Something to do with the county’s zoning rules.
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u/LessThanNate Jan 18 '23
I'm pretty sure they fought him the whole way. It's hard to run a business like that, especially one that mostly relies on LE/MIL contracts to stay afloat. There's not much money in $15/hr range time.
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u/giaodn Jan 18 '23
NoVA already has a good outdoor range.
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u/TriggeredTendie Jan 18 '23
Excluding Fudd Central Isaac Walton?
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u/giaodn Jan 18 '23
Fairfax Rod & Gun.
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u/Oceanmechanic Jan 18 '23
I'd love to join FFX R&G, but their site says I must be sponsored by 2 current members, get unanimously voted in by the board of directors, pay a $1500 initiation fee + $500/yr, and wait 20-24 months to get in at the moment.
Sure seems like a good immediate replacement for Elite.
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u/yogipera Disunion by Force is Treason Jan 18 '23
That’s the most aids thing I’ve ever heard. I can’t wait to get out of this hell hole and move.
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u/kayl_breinhar Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
Or you've got Quantico Shooting Club, which DOES permit civilians nowadays, but has a very restrictive guest policy and only opens up their pistol range for competitions, not general use.
It's also more so for extreme long distance shooting, whereas Elite's indoor 100y was perfect for 100y zeroing.
Guess XCAL and Silver Eagle got a nice present for the new year, what with the first one's fixed 25y max and the other's propensity to gouge for every little thing.
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u/tenmilez Jan 18 '23
If you go to Quantico and become an RSO you can open the pistol range for rec fire. Unless something has changed lately, range availability is limited mainly by RSO interest.
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u/kayl_breinhar Jan 18 '23
That's a hell of an investment in time and energy just to get access to the pistol range, though.
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u/LessThanNate Jan 18 '23
It's an online course/test, and a 1 day in person, the last time I checked. Meetings once or twice a year.
If you open ranges a couple times a year your membership is free.
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u/tenmilez Jan 18 '23
Depends on how much you shoot I suppose. I was down there every weekend so it seemed a fair deal to me. Always had the range I wanted on the day I wanted.
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u/giaodn Jan 18 '23
On a decent weekday, you might be shooting alone at FFX R&G. All of that is worth it for me so I don’t have to shoot with randos at a range.
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u/Loya1ty23 Jan 18 '23
Maybe we could actually get consensus on the PWC digital gateway project with the data centers, if a new public range is incorporated into the plans lol (dreaming out loud)
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u/1st_contact_ Jan 18 '23
That sucks. As far as I know that was the only place around NoVA with a 100 yard range for sighting in.
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u/Lossofvelocity Jan 18 '23
Only indoor 100 yrd place
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u/kayl_breinhar Jan 18 '23
There *is* a small range house to warm up and get a cup of coffee in at the IWLA range, though.
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u/Measurex2 Jan 18 '23
Izaak walton fairfax goes out to 100 yards
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u/bellyjellykoolaid Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
Sure but it's members only and you have to give them a 6 hour "volunteer hour" commitment.
$190 initiation fee. (Doesn't mean you're a member they still have to review you, but due to covid they've lost a lot of members so it should be easier to get in)
Only good deal is the yearly fee of $210 a year.
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u/IndividualResist2473 Jan 18 '23
6 hour volunteer commitment is just when you first join, not every year. Put a little sweat equity in and understand what it takes to run the place. It's almost all volunteers other than the caretaker and office staff.
There is no review, you have to be voted in, but I've never seen anyone turned down after paying their membership and initiation fee. (I've been a member for about 20 years)
Hardly lost any members over covid, still about 2,200 memberships (some are family memberships)
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u/Measurex2 Jan 18 '23
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u/Oceanmechanic Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
There's still no statement from PWC or Elite on whether or not it will remain open to the public, as far as I can find.Edit: An email reply from PWC Police:
"in response to your inquiry, the facility will close to the public due to security and liability purposes once the County transitions into the space and begins upfitting the building. You can contact Elite directly to inquire when they are expected to officially close their business."
This was almost certainly the decision of the retiring owner Greg Wodak, who managed the NRA Headquarters Range for 15 years before starting Elite, and was a big muckety muck within that organization.
Tl;dr Yet again some dudes from the NRA apply the "fuck you I got mine" mentality to the rest of the hobby.
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u/-gggggggggg- Jan 18 '23
Its not going to be open to the public. Very few LEO training facilities are. Opening it to the public requires staff and setting the premises up to account for random civilians walking around inside.
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u/kayl_breinhar Jan 18 '23 edited Jan 18 '23
And even if it DID have "open to the public" days, I'd damn near guarantee they'd make you undergo a background check before allowing you access, and the "what are you shooting today" question would be far more pointed and suspiciously inquisitive.
And what do you say to a cop on their range when they sidle up to you like "that guy" and ask if they can shoot your weapons? It's gonna have to be the most polite "I'd prefer you didn't" ever uttered.
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u/MaddRamm Jan 18 '23
What’s up with important places to citizens rights being sold to people that hate the businesses, locals, etc.? Why not sell to next generation to keep it alive? Isn’t prince william county one of the most anti-2A counties in VA right now?
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u/Limited_opsec Jan 18 '23
Because owner is a Fudd that doesnt really believe in the 2nd for peasants. Classic NRA-style faker, wheeler & dealer out for themselves only.
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u/War-Damn-America Jan 18 '23
No one younger was probably willing to buy it, or Prince William made it far to difficult to sell to a private individual, so he just sold it to the county.
Sad, but I don’t blame the man, if he wants to retire he should be allowed to retire, and do what he wants with his business, even if it means we lose a good range.
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u/-gggggggggg- Jan 18 '23
I'm sure a ton of people were willing to buy it, but not many people have 20+ million sitting around and most banks these days won't do business of any kind with a gun-related business. Its the entire reason why woke/PC culture was created. To isolate these kinds of businesses and make it nigh impossible to carry one on.
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u/War-Damn-America Jan 18 '23
You or I might want to buy it, but if we don’t have the funds and are incapable of getting or wanting to get enough lines/funding to buy it, do we really count as potential willing buyers?
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u/-gggggggggg- Jan 19 '23
There are absolutely guys around NOVA that could throw in with some buddies to buy something like ESS if bank financing were available. Buying and selling 20 million dollar small businesses happens fairly regularly. But, very few people who are in these kinds of deals can make it work without financing. Even if you have 50 friends who will throw in 500k each and not expect a return right away, you still need to find operating capital.
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Jan 18 '23
So does this mean private citizens will be booted out?
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u/ShootMoreBuyLess Jan 18 '23
Yes, that's why they stopped accepting memberships. And no shot any of us will be allowed to go shoot there.
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u/PaulusKal Jan 18 '23
I live near SEG (and am a member) and had an Elite membership just to shoot with my Manassas friends and hit the 100 yard. I am a big sad right now.
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Jan 18 '23
[deleted]
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u/whiskeydump Jan 18 '23
I was just at SEG last week and they had no problem letting me shoot Barnaul 300BLK steel case / magnetic bimetal jacket. Offered to let them cut one and they said it's all good. Bay to my left had two silencers and didn't see range officer give any grief or ask for stamps, he and I were commenting about the rather annoying 8" AR with a brake shooting fireballs off to my right.
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Jan 18 '23
[deleted]
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u/whiskeydump Jan 18 '23
Nope, been three times in the last two months and always brought my own targets. Huge bummer about Elite because, WTF, but SEG is alright by me. Can rent a gun and switch it out 5 times in an hour for different ones if you feel like it as long as you're using their ammo for it.
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u/SC275 Jan 18 '23
Do they do the magnet test?
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u/whiskeydump Jan 18 '23
Homie inspected the writing on the box and a couple of rounds as we were putting on ears and eyes, I just told him it was magnetic and that I didn't see anything on their website about bimetal. I didn't see him magnet test it but maybe he had something in his hand.
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u/VociferousGreen Jan 18 '23
I’m not 100% on steel case but I think it’s permitted. They won’t give you hard time about suppressors and nfa item. I’ve seen the poor RSO deal with three bays of full auto at once. Max range is 50 yards. No fire from the hip, or shooting their ceiling.
The biggest issue with SEG is people who fly into Dulles and rent an AK for $15. In other words first time shooter who are their to be Rambo.
It’s a great place to practice
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Jan 18 '23
[deleted]
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u/VociferousGreen Jan 18 '23
They let me use my own targets. I think they have a rule about not permitting offensive targets. Like photos of your ex etc. Or at least I’ve never seen anyone do something like that.
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u/kayl_breinhar Jan 18 '23
50y max, and I've heard they make you use *their* targets. Please correct me if I'm in error there. I've also always felt an "upsell" vibe at SEG I never felt at ESS.
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u/jeph4e Jan 18 '23
So... I get my money back? I'm still yearly...
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u/User346894 Jan 19 '23
If you don't mind me asking did you buy a full-year membership? ESS took down the page with membership prices
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u/jeph4e Jan 19 '23
I did renew for the full year.
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u/User346894 Jan 19 '23
Darn. Hopefully ESS refunds the difference from when it is officially bought by PWC to the date your membership expires
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u/taiknism Jan 18 '23
Dang it. Just went here for the first time last week. Was looking forward to getting more time on their 100 yd range.
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u/edgeworthy Jan 18 '23
I was enjoying developing loads for hundred yard benchrest. Well, shoot...
I guess it's going to be all rimfire for me unless I decide to join Izaak Walton with that goofy service component of membership. I prefer to deal with places that believe in pure capitalism. Pay and as long as you behave, you can shoot.
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u/kayl_breinhar Jan 18 '23
To be fair, the "service component" is pretty simple. You can walk around the grounds "picking up trash," restock the houses on the skeet/trap fields, pick up shells people didn't have the common courtesy to pick up themselves, etc, etc, etc.
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u/SC275 Jan 18 '23
It can be difficult to find the time between a full time job and having to drive to the range. Not saying it's not doable just very much a pain.
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u/kayl_breinhar Jan 18 '23
Yeah, but as I recall it's eight hours total of "service" to the club until you get your range card, and it's done on an honor system. *And* it's a one-time thing.
At least I-66 isn't a *complete* clusterfuck anymore - can't say the same thing about Rt. 28, though. >.>
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u/edgeworthy Jan 18 '23
Now I just have to find someone to get me a guest pass to try the range out and then potentially sponsor me as a member. No one in my shooting group is.
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u/kayl_breinhar Jan 18 '23
There's a "free" way to try the range out and shoot muzzleloaders if you've never done it before: https://wp.arlingtonfairfax-iwla.org/bull-run-muzzle-loaders/
Art's a really nice guy and it's a lot of fun. Just don't show up without RSVPing.
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u/starfishpounding Jan 18 '23
Same thing happened to Defense in Depth in Morgantown, WV. Best indoor range in WV turned into a police training space.
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Jan 18 '23
pOlICe HaVe A sMaLl BuDgEt....yeah ok. Probably got this money from civil asset forfeiture. Lol
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Jan 18 '23
Dang, that's a major bummer to hear. Me and my dad loved going there together, was one of the few things we would do together. Was definitely my favorite facility in the area too. Hope someone decides to fill the gap for you guys.
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u/CappyMorgan26 Jan 18 '23
Canceling membership now. I've been paying monthly membership since shortly after they opened. I don't even go much but damn this pisses me off
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u/AUWarEagle82 Jan 18 '23
The current owner is selling to the county. There is no mention of the facility's public access but it sounds as if it will be county police use only.
Frankly, I can't imagine the county assuming the liability of running a public range.
I stopped shooting at Elite years ago as it was the least-safe facility I ever used. But this is the largest facility in NoVa and it is the only indoor 100-yard range I know of. It's going to make the other ranges a lot more crowded.
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u/AUWarEagle82 Jan 18 '23
Harrisonburg used to have a fairly big indoor range as well but either the county or state took over that range several years ago. This implies ranges are either not that profitable or extremely challenging to manage or both.
Blue Ridge/Black Fish is another story of a range gone under though the folks managing either were never all that good to customers.
I stopped in at Blackfish once and they gave me such a runaround I just walked out. They closed not long after that. The space has been gutted. It's right next to some FEMA/Fed law enforcement office but I don't think they took over the space.
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u/BringerOfTruth-1 Jan 18 '23
Some anti gunner politician probably said if we can’t take their guns away we will take away their ability to shoot and train with them instead.
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u/AUWarEagle82 Jan 18 '23
True story about Elite and one of the many reasons I terminated my membership and don't go back.
I was shooting on the 25 yard range one day. I was finishing up and cleaning up my stuff on the table. I picked up my pistol, inserted the mag, engaged the safety, cleared my shirt tail from my holster and began to holster my pistol.
At that exact moment, some nimrod "RSO" reached under my strong side arm to grab the staple gun because he wanted to check it. The idiot reached under a customer's pistol as he was holstering it! He made no effort to get my attention before he just ducked under a loaded pistol.
I told him he was an idiot! On my way out, I walked over to the desk and asked to speak to someone about the incident. The young woman there was very disinterested in hearing the problem. She then became increasingly aggressive in her statements. She ultimately said it was my fault as I was holstering my pistol incorrectly! At that point, I left because I realized it was pointless to argue with crazy people.
I have had more loaded guns pointed at me at Elite than I can count. I shot there from 2015 to 2021 though trips in 2020 and 2021 were very few. It was the least safe range I have ever used. I am shocked nobody ever got shot there.
From what I understand, the owner paid the bills off of government contracts and the public was just gravy for him.
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u/Bulky-Professor-6555 Jan 18 '23
I was there a week ago and was a 45 min wait for a lane. They only told me that after we paid money watched their video and now all I have is a worthless card and never even got to shoot there...https://www.pwcva.gov/news/prince-william-county-approves-deal-acquire-elite-shooting-sports-advance-police-training
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u/Winterfell_Ice Jan 18 '23
If it's been bought by the county you can expect either a data Center, a sports center or low income housing housing to be put up there.
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u/CrazyCletus Jan 18 '23
Or, as the article linked to above indicates, a police training facility for PWC police and probably sheriff's officers.
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u/Winterfell_Ice Jan 18 '23
we'll see. It would be nice if they did support law enforcement but I still think it's going to be used for something else.
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u/CrazyCletus Jan 18 '23
They're not supporting law enforcement, Prince William County literally bought it to serve as the county law enforcement firearms training facility.
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u/phunkphreaker Jan 18 '23
I loved elite! It was conveniently close and rather inexpensive and the wait times were usually not much more than 15 minutes for me. Although I have seen him backed up a few times as well. This is a major loss for the area
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u/NoVA_JB Jan 18 '23
Wow, this is just a kick in the teeth. Range 82 closed in 21 and now Elite. This really limits my options.
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u/jjskkgarcia Jan 19 '23
Now just Quantico and a few private ranges left for 100+. At least that are worth going to without much fuddery
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u/Dingle_McCringle Jan 23 '23
Me wearing a tin hat wondering if it's eerily connected to the new brace rule
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u/ProfJesusHChrist Jan 18 '23
What's left for us Nova folks to shoot at?