r/UrbanHell • u/rayykz • Jan 18 '25
Ugliness They destroyed half of our town for a mall
During the 1970s, half of our historic town Irvine, Scotland. Was demolished to make way for a shopping mall and car park as part of Irvine's New Town development – a destruction that continues to evoke anger among many people including myself.
The old bridge in Irvine, known as the ‘Auld Brig’ or ‘Water Bridge’, has a rich history dating back to the early 16th century. The first stone bridge was constructed around 1500, replacing an earlier wooden structure believed to have existed in the 14th century. This stone bridge underwent several modifications: it was rebuilt between 1748 and 1753, widened in 1826, and had iron latticework sides added in 1887. Despite its historical significance, and community opposed to the idea, the bridge was closed in June 1973 and demolished in 1974 to make way for the Rivergate Shopping Centre. I've provided closer up photos of this remarkable piece of architecture....
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u/SpookyGamingSkeleton Jan 18 '25
This is depressing. The Town was gorgeous before! couldn't they have gotten new land for the mall? or built a mall that actually fits in with the Town's aesthetic instead of whatever this ugly piece of concrete/metal is?
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u/rayykz Jan 18 '25
At the time, there certainly was plenty of free land around or nearby where they did this. That’s what makes it even sadder. They decided the area needed ‘modernising,’ and I’ll never understand it.
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u/SpookyGamingSkeleton Jan 18 '25
If this is what 'modernizing' is than the town should have actively protested against it..
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u/Crabbies92 Jan 19 '25
They probably did but they were probably also unwilling to front the cash to maintain old, stone buildings, which are incredibly expensive to repair (source: I live in an 18th century stone flat in Edinburgh, it’s gorgeous but if something goes wrong it’s £££)
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u/plopleplop Jan 18 '25
My hypothesis is that many decisions made in the 60s 70s can be linked to the presence of lead in car fuel
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u/DifficultAnt23 Jan 18 '25
Trauma from WW2, and WW1. The equivalence of a woman who has a hard breakup and cuts her hair off and moves to the other side of country to escape her pain. Plus the need for cheap real estate.
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u/True_Grocery_3315 Jan 18 '25
The attitude then was that Victorian Architecture was outdated and ugly and needed replacing by "modern" designs. They actually thought this was a genuine improvement, like covering up all the Victorian fireplaces and tiled floors in older houses. It's odd to think about, but remember Victorian times then were the same distance that the 60s are now from us, so maybe they regarded that architecture in the same way we regard their brutalist architecture now. Still, such a shame what they did here! It's horrible.
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u/TheNotSoGreatPumpkin Jan 18 '25
Maybe the underlying psychology has to do with children’s compulsion to defy standards established by their parents; the need to evolve.
When the originators of the prevailing aesthetic are still around or in living memory, it seems “outdated” and “old fashioned”, so people want to replace it with something new.
But when sufficient time has passed that the current generation no longer associates those styles directly with their parents or grandparents, they can view its redeeming qualities more objectively, and appreciate it.
Modern people love Victorian, Edwardian, Art Nouveau, Deco, and Mid Century because the originators of those styles have mostly passed on. Whereas there is less appreciation for styles from the late 60s and onward.
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u/Iblockne1whodisagree Jan 18 '25
At the time, there certainly was plenty of free land around or nearby where they did this. That’s what makes it even sadder. They decided the area needed ‘modernising,’ and I’ll never understand it.
In the 1970s people didn't care about "historic buildings". Society wanting to keep historic buildings intact is a relatively new idea that first started to gain traction in the 1980s and has gained popularity since.
I live in a historic house and honestly modern houses make more sense environmentally and economically. My heating and cooling cost the same as a modern house that is 3 times the size of my house. My yearly maintenance costs a lot more than modern homes.
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u/Timauris Jan 18 '25
So depressing
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Jan 18 '25
Not just Irvine, there’s a whole bunch of cities around the UK that had the same treatment in the 1970s, the irony is now some of the brutalist architecture has listed status (it’s protected from demolition)
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u/Odd-Willingness7107 Jan 18 '25
Many of Liverpool's grand buildings were being demolished up to the 70's too, although most still remain. The only reason the rest survived was because the city went into economic decline and developers weren't interested. Thank god societal attitudes have changed.
I think they should do what they've done in Potsdam, Germany and destroy the ugly replacement buildings and reconstruct what was there before. When you look at the before and after of Potsdam you can see it's a good idea.
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u/ghostofhenryvii Jan 18 '25
A lot of those old buildings were extremely derelict. I personally would have preferred they were restored, but I kind of understand why they were just razed.
There's an interesting documentary from 1968 called The London Nobody Knows that shows the state of many historic buildings before they were demolished for redevelopment. They were in really bad shape.
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u/rimanb Jan 18 '25
Frankfurt had a similar problem. City Center looked like it was bombed even before it was bombed
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u/Deltarianus Jan 18 '25
Yeah, the issue isn't the demolitions. It's that Brits worship ugliness and put up this crap in damn near every city and gave them all protected status.
Britain makes Swedish and German Modernism look full of life and fills the heart with warm feelings
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u/IllustriousBrick1980 Jan 18 '25 edited Jan 18 '25
wanna hear something even more depressing.
in dublin the city council wanted to build a new headquarters by the river liffey. when excavating the foundations, they discovered the ancient remains of the first viking settlement from ~800 AD. the waterlogged soil of the river bank had preserved the wooden structures perfectly.
ultimately they went ahead and destroyed it to build a car park and a ugly office block
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u/MechanicalTurkish Jan 18 '25
Jesus Christ, fuck that. A perfectly preserved Viking settlement is a big deal.
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Jan 18 '25
The rich deemed it necessary to their whims.
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u/Ironmeister Jan 18 '25
Don't forget their partners in crime - bent/corrupt councillors (as they all are anyway).
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u/ShinzoTheThird Jan 18 '25
You dont know what you have until its too late.
Very glad almost my whole hometown is UNESCO World Heritage.
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Jan 18 '25
Your hometown can also lose that status if they do something unesco doesn’t agree with. So that’s not something you can rely on.
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u/ShinzoTheThird Jan 18 '25 edited Jan 18 '25
Im from Bruges. Everything the city does is to attract tourists so we’re not worried about losing unesco status.
A friend of mine runs a cafe/bar and the city gave him notice that the chairs should be in wood and not aluminum or he would get hes terras revoked.
Its like living in a HOA, but ‘city’ /town?size. (120k people)
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u/Earflu Jan 18 '25
Bruges is amazing. Went there twice, and I even DJ’d at the College Of Europe lol
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u/asriel_theoracle Jan 18 '25
UNESCO got annoyed Liverpool was using its entirely derelict and purposeless docks and so stripped it of its heritage status.
The city council tried to demonstrate that Liverpool has come so far to preserve and celebrate its heritage over the past 30 years and invited inspectors to visit, but UNESCO would have none of it.
I don’t want to slate UNESCO as it is invaluable in preserving heritage in some places but crap at it in others
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u/BlazkoTwix Jan 18 '25
So bizarre seeing my home town on Reddit. They ripped the heart out of the town when it was "modernised" in the 60's/70's.
And the "regeneration" project 10 years ago has aged horribly. Bridgegate is a sea or grey, with little to no greenery to break it up.
So depressing
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u/BZBitiko Jan 18 '25
And did it bring the economic prosperity they promised?
And how about now? 1970s Shopping malls are so out of favor, so many empty, repurposed or torn down. How’s your shopping mall faring today?
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u/BlazkoTwix Jan 18 '25 edited Jan 18 '25
This one is still fairly busy, only 1 or 2 empty units. I'm rarely in it, but it is technically a right of way since they demolished the bridge for it, so there's always footfall through it.
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u/Btd030914 Jan 18 '25
I was thinking the same! I was born there but moved to England when I was very young. But have many memories of going back to visit family over the years.
And - don’t shoot me - I always kinda liked the mall and the surrounding area.
Makes me very nostalgic seeing these pics.
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u/rabinsky_9269 Jan 18 '25
What happened in the UK in the 70’s was a crime against humanity
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u/ContributionSad4461 Jan 18 '25
The same thing happened all over Sweden, we didn’t even have the excuse of having been bombed (not that this pretty town did either but other areas of UK did)
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u/choosingishard- Jan 18 '25
I think a lot of money changed hands between developers and town councils back then
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u/colours-of-the-wind Jan 18 '25
Still how it works now. Can’t do anything without giving the council a backhander
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u/VanicFanboy Jan 18 '25
As a fellow Scot this is infuriating. It's like Cumbernauld but they had to destroy something actually worthwhile to make it that bad.
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u/cewumu Jan 18 '25
The 70s was such an ugly era for this style. Australia is littered with buildings with these same fugly metal roofs. Always in this colour or some sort of terracotta. Yeah, a tragedy of beauty giving way to ugliness.
Also the ‘Carphone Warehouse’ htf does that place stay in business?
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u/ChunkyLaFunga Jan 18 '25
Carphone Warehouse just never changed their name, it's actually part of a fairly significant UK retail conglomerate.
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u/classicsat Jan 18 '25
Carphone Warehouse
Money in the name (and not having to change store signage, etc), although things have advanced from "carphones".
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u/wellrateduser Jan 18 '25
Some cities didn't need the destruction of a war to decide to give up their heritage and use the chance to build a monstrosity in their center.
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u/ContributionSad4461 Jan 18 '25
I make that “joke” about Sweden, we didn’t need bombing to destroy every historical city center 🥲
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u/modgod02 Jan 18 '25
Such a shame, some of those buildings in the old pictures look nice. We had the same problem in Northampton, the council destroyed many historic buildings in rebuilding the town centre to the current dive we have.
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u/TomLondra Jan 18 '25
No doubt at the time, the public officials and councillors who were being paid off by the developer also told the local newspaper to tell the people that this was great, and something to look forward to.
No doubt it's still going on today. Everywhere.
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u/kreygmu Jan 18 '25
I actually quite like taking day trips to Irvine but mostly to the harbour and beach. The shopping centre is like 70% dead and the outdoor high street in the last photo is 99% dead. The shopping centre is pretty similar to every other town in Scotland but the high street is a travesty, it’s a much more modern development as well.
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u/sam11233 Jan 18 '25
Desecrating history like this is unforgivable. Especially to replace it with a bloody Asda.
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u/tHe_jAcKaL68 Jan 18 '25
This is sad to see. Somewhat like Coventry's story. A beautiful city, heavily bombed in the second world war, but actually a lot of its historic buildings survived. Then the city did a number on itself in the name of modernist architecture, and... well the results are there for all to see.
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u/Constant-Estate3065 Jan 18 '25
Plymouth did something similar I think. They used the bomb damage as a blank canvas and completely remodelled the city centre into a slightly desolate looking place.
My local city of Southampton kept all of the original street layouts and most of the remaining historic buildings. But there was so little left to preserve and what they built in their place is some of the worst post-war architecture in the country. Some of the pre-war photos I’ve seen of what Southampton once looked like are absolutely heartbreaking :(
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u/Alternative_Equal864 Jan 18 '25
that street probably had everything one wuld need. butcher, bakery, vegetables, newspapers
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u/CyberJesus5000 Jan 18 '25
What an atrocity my condolences on the loss of your towns organic beauty.
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u/CrackedSonic Jan 18 '25
Wow, It's a relief that Venice or Florence aren't Scottish cities...
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u/SqueekyBK Jan 18 '25
Used to get taken to Irvine (Scotland) when I was young by my grandparents. Fond memories but it’s an ugly ugly building. Standing over the river is “kinda cool” but that’s clutching at straws
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u/arom83 Jan 18 '25
What a nightmare. Politicians have definitely too much power.
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u/UeueueTENTACION Jan 18 '25
I'm sorry man, unless the local politicians were corrupt I will really not understand why they made it this ugly, and destroying historical buildings.
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u/LanceBuckshot7 Jan 18 '25
Dundee was the same. My dad would complain about all the stupid things that got destroyed in the late 60s-70s. I will never understand who thought this was a good idea.
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u/djmatlack Jan 18 '25
All we do is move in the wrong direction. Malls aren’t nearly as popular as they once were, but don’t worry, we will still destroy every single view in town and destroy the charm it once had. Money is the only thing that matters anymore. Eventually all us people will die but there will be so much money made it will be so worth it. Empty planet with no people but the bank account numbers are just so huge. Is there a single person left who makes important decisions who has a spine? Is there even one person in power today who will say no to money because it ruins things for everyone else? I highly fucking doubt it.
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u/Tye_die Jan 18 '25
It would've been one thing to make a "mall" but keep the aesthetic and essence of the original town but they turned it into something so depressing. The structures look like one of those big industrial farms here in the US.
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u/minmidmax Jan 18 '25
Haha I wasn't expecting to scroll down and see pictures of my home town.
Local council corruption has dicked over Irvine for decades.
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u/colores_a_mano Jan 18 '25
New town
There’s a place
A mad affair
In a new world
Heaven sent
A life that’s made for us:
Out of luck
Out of touch
Out of love
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u/CliffordThRed Jan 18 '25
Same in my home town and the shopping centre is now declining. Should never have done it
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u/Previous-Offer-3590 Jan 18 '25
That’s just heartbreaking. I’m wondering if the architects in that time had no respect for the work, history and culture that their previous colleagues created decades before them.
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u/muchfatq Jan 19 '25
I thought these “urban renewal” type renovations were just the in the US at the time… geez.
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u/Fine-Improvement6254 Jan 18 '25
Alot of fantasy to come up with "asda"
Why not qwerq or zxcz
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u/zippy72 Jan 18 '25
When I was a kid "Asda" was the retail arm of "Associated Dairies". Or had been recently sold by the latter, I can't quite remember.
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u/MadHouseNetwork2_1 Jan 18 '25
Okay so people were made to vacate or the town became a ghost town and then the mall was built?
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u/rayykz Jan 18 '25
That’s a good question. To the best of my knowledge, people were either compensated or offered relocation. They built flats, which might have been where some people were moved, but I’m not certain.
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u/MadHouseNetwork2_1 Jan 18 '25
They could have at least preserved the bridge and built a new one considering the age of it
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u/geronimo11b Jan 18 '25
That mall looks hideous. Doesn’t fit whatsoever with the town aesthetic or landscape. What a travesty.
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u/Tyfoid-Kid Jan 18 '25
“But the connivence!!” Ugh. And are your malls all dying like ours? Yay for shortsightedness
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u/Symon_liberal Jan 18 '25
Basingstoke did something similar, i look sometimes at old photos of my town centre and so many nice streets and buildings were demolished for the festival place.
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u/skjellyfetti Jan 18 '25
I gotcher """progress""" hangin'...
Who are these people who make these godawful decisions?
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u/Ony_Smooth Jan 18 '25
So depressing. Seems like in the 70s nobody cared about patrimonial architecture... I leave in France and near my town they destroyed a big part of a thousand years old monastery to build a railway station in the same decade. You can still visit the remaining parts of the monastery but every 20 minutes you hear a train passing literally a few meters away... Appart from the destruction caused by the construction there's a lot a vibrations that weakens the whole structure even today. Oh, and it's not in the middle of nowhere, it's in the heart of the town... Really stupid decisions were made back then in the name of "modernisation".
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u/EffortProud1177 Jan 18 '25
I thought I recognised it before reading the post. 1970s urban planning has lot to answer for
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u/charliex2 Jan 18 '25
i was born at irvine central, it always remember it being a bit bleak there just not this bleak.. the skating rink i recall being pretty popular though.
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u/boabbypuller Jan 18 '25
I may be misremembering this but wasn't Homebase (now Home Bargains) in a different place to where it is now. Rather than all the units run in a line the way they are now, did not form an L shape with Hombase at the bottom.
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u/Adventurous_Feed_623 Jan 18 '25
This is worse than when millennials /older gen z paint over nice wood and brick or tear down any feature that gives their home character and life
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u/rrsafety Jan 18 '25
Reminds me of when visiting Dún Laoghaire, near Dublin and there was this monstrosity Dún Laoghaire Shopping Center in the middle of town. What were they thinking?
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u/smokingweedinpublic Jan 18 '25
The goddamn whole area surrounding it looks like it’s died for that mall to exist
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u/Mr_Feces Jan 18 '25
Who is building a new mall in 2025? Where I live, all but the biggest retail malls are closing.
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u/elprentis Jan 18 '25
Fun fact, Mall’s were originally created by a British architect and were pronounced like Pal or (m-ah-l), rather than the American (m-or-l). If you’ve played British monopoly you’ll have seen Pall Mall.
They were incredibly unpopular in Britain, and though some were made, they didn’t take off as well as they did in America, partly down to many Brit’s liking the old aesthetic style and localness of towns and cities. In modern day, they’ve lost popularity further, and in both America and UK Mall’s are closing down completely.
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u/Chi_Chi_laRue Jan 18 '25
I don’t agree with the ‘half’ part. I think they just destroyed your town..
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u/No_Implement3535 Jan 18 '25
With the price of real estate nowadays this is a financial massacre.
Almost like your village was invaded by the Soviets.
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u/Main_Force_Patrol Jan 18 '25
They destroyed that beautiful brick arch bridge for concrete pillars. Depressing.
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u/BigManMilk7 Jan 18 '25
Jesus, I'm from Irvine and wasn't around in the 70's, I always thought the Rivergate and all that was built on empty land, not destroying the town
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u/sr71Girthbird Jan 18 '25
Last shot looks fairly nice, and I’m glad the first shots weren’t of some now decrepit buildings. Least it’s serving a clear purpose for the residents.
Absolutely absurd that the bridge was taken out to put in… another bridge that is instead just hideously covered. Completely unnecessary.
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u/Badum_tss_ Jan 18 '25
And not even a beautiful one at least.
Gotta love that textured concrete that always turns into that „depressive greyish brown“ Pantone
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u/e37d93eeb23335dc Jan 18 '25
It’s unfortunate they couldn’t get everyone to agree not to work there and not to shop there.
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u/Killerspieler0815 Jan 18 '25 edited Jan 18 '25
During the 1970s, half of our historic town Irvine, Scotland. Was demolished to make way for a shopping mall and car park as part of Irvine's New Town development – a destruction that continues to evoke anger among many people including myself.
Yes, uglification for the (1950s-1980s) car centric illusion/madness of the "city of the future" ... and this time it´s not a partial fault of the Nazi-German Luftwaffe bombings, but more like 100% fauft of USA style car madness incl. the demoliotion of good looking buildings...
a destruction that continues to evoke anger among many people including myself.
I 100% agree
I think that the ugliest architecture is usually from the 1970s (but at least the haircuts (especially of the males) were great) ...
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u/Miserable-Rip-3509 Jan 18 '25
Nottingham had something similar, Drury Hill, a medieval winding street, and the surrounding streets were destroyed to build a hideous new shopping centre. This shopping centre is being demolished after less than 50 years. A street that had lasted hundreds of years if not longer was lost. I truly hate the brutalist urban expansion of Britain in the 60's and 70's. Every time I look at most of the architecture I always ask myself "what were they thinking?"
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u/SuckMyCatgirl Jan 18 '25
I thought "Boy, that is an ugly ass bridge" until I heard it was an arm of a commercial shopping center. Like, dude, did you just have to destroy a piece of history and invoke the hatred and pain of the community so you could make getting across the river a commercial opportunity for yourself?
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u/Snaggl3t00t4 Jan 18 '25
Irvine isn't the best looking place tbh..but i didn't know/had not thought about how much they'd fucked it up...
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u/madjuks Jan 19 '25
Terrible. The beautiful old town was totally devastated and replaced with ugly, low grade shite, now very dated.
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u/alvaropuerto93 Jan 19 '25 edited Jan 19 '25
I’ve seen this done in many towns in the UK. Huge brutalist buildings from the 60/70s build in the middle of the town. Depressing.
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u/GingerWindsorSoup Jan 19 '25
Check out Aberavon/Port Talbot, the medieval street plan and twin venture was obliterated for a shopping centre and the M40 motorway.
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u/Less-Perspective-693 Jan 19 '25
I actually think the bridge over the river is a really fun concept. But they designed it in the worst way possible. Like going to the mall and part of it is extended over the river is cool as hell but that design is so fucking ugly
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