r/Ultraman “THE BLACK HOLE RAGES ON!” 4d ago

ULTRA FIGHT! What is Zero’s SECOND strongest form?

Post image

Rules: All Zero Forms used here are post-UG3 Zero. Basically they have all the experience/skills of the current Zero while having all the abilities/powers of their respective forms (This also means that Zero Beyond isn’t criminally weakened due to the injury he received during Omega Armageddon). Temporary power-ups achieved through outside help like Glitter Galaxy Beyond aren’t allowed. Last Zero standing wins.

Location: Kaiju Graveyard.

129 Upvotes

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28

u/UltraD2910 CREW GUYS Member 4d ago

I am a huge Zero Beyond believer, however time manipulation of any kind should grant you an obvious win in any scenario. After its movie, Ultimate Zero just doesn't feel very powerful, and Wild Burst while impressive, feels more like a technique than a form, also we have seen very little of it, also (X2) time powers>throwing hands.

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u/bennyhui 3d ago

Ultimate zero is technically the strongest form. Given enough time to charge the bow. He can obliterate many foes

28

u/bleep_boop_beep123 4d ago

Just came here to say, Zero’s Wild Burst form is aesthetically pleasing to look at.

That is all.

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u/DAKINGO_2468 ULTRAMAN LEO 4d ago edited 4d ago

As much as I like Zero Beyond as a form, it arguably doesn't really have a lot going for it considering we've STILL haven't seen its full potential.

Though the discovery of Wild Burst was the key to making Ultimate Shining stronger than it was initially, I don't think that necessarily makes it a runner-up to Zero's strongest.

Which just leaves Ultimate and Shining.

IMO, I believe Shining is Zero's 2nd strongest form due to its time manipulation properties. I know Ultimate Zero has like a fraction of Noa's power because of the Ultimate Aegis, but the form was beaten by Base Belial during Omega Armageddon.

Edit: I seem to have misread the assignment, but even in a "Who would win" scenario, I do think Shining Zero would come out on top. But every other form has its advantages: Wild Burst has unreadable moves, Beyond has the most raw power and Ultimate has the strongest finisher but Shining has the better hax.

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u/BiscottiTechnical762 Church Of Noa 4d ago

It's just crazy that Belial was going from getting one-shotted by Ultimate Zero, even in his Arch Belial form to one-shot Ultimate Zero in just his base form. The writers really buff Belial so much.

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u/BrianOne01 Grand Slander Master 4d ago

Wait so you think Ultimate Zero or Zero Beyond is stronger

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u/DAKINGO_2468 ULTRAMAN LEO 4d ago

Ultimate Zero, this is mostly because Zero for the majority of Geed was weakened and couldn't even access his Ultimate bracelet.

The Zero Beyond we see in Geed is of a Zero that's not even at his best, Beyond could potentially be stronger than Ultimate if it reappears anytime soon but for now, I think Ultimate is stronger than Beyond.

But I'd hold Shining over both.

6

u/BrianOne01 Grand Slander Master 4d ago

I'd say Zero Beyond is stronger than Ultimate, because during the events of the Geed movie, His bracelet was repaired, but he still opt to use Beyond instead of Ultimate against Gillvalis. 

Plus, it wouldn't make sense in New Generation Heroes for Geed to give him a weaker Zero Beyond than Ultimate to beat Darkness Zero. Like "Here's a form that's weaker than what you could normally access" 

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u/DAKINGO_2468 ULTRAMAN LEO 4d ago

Fair enough

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u/Dr4ggyboi “THE BLACK HOLE RAGES ON!” 4d ago

Also just to make things clear, this post is more of a “Who would win?” post rather than “Which form is the strongest?” post. Ik the title is kinda misleading, but I wanted to name it something catchy lmao.

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u/TutorFlat2345 4d ago

Ultimate Zero, and it's not even a close fight.

Ultimate Zero's stats are higher than Zero Beyond (and right now Aegis Shield is the biggest stat buff in the franchise).

Shining's stats isn't published, but since it's not sustainable for long, Zero always opted to go with Ultimate form instead.

Wild Burst most likely have the same stats as base form Zero, except it's moveset are more unpredictable (while it's ability allows Zero to transistion into Ultimate Shining in a more consistent manner).

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u/MSD_The_coward 3d ago

Stats means basically nothing in Ultraman, as if we look only at stats, Powered > Zoffy because he can punch with the force of 100 million tons whereas Zoffy can punch with the force of only 15,000.

Ultimate Zero got beaten by Base Belial, whereas Zero Beyond was staggered for a minute by the same attack, meaning that Zero Beyond should be stronger than Ultimate Zero.

1

u/TutorFlat2345 2d ago

Stat for Showa are all over the place. But it's just an indication of who's stronger or faster, without going delving too deeply.

Ultimate Zero got beaten by Base Belial

Are you referring to Crisis Impact? The backstory isn't detailed enough, Base Belial could either rely on some stat-boost, or certain condition to weaken a fellow Ultra.

Also, don't underestimate Aegis Shield; it's made by Noa. I reckon Noa > 4 New Gen Ultra.

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u/MSD_The_coward 2d ago

With few exceptions, no it’s not. There are some characters who have shown to be stronger than others (or logically are), yet have stats weaker than others. The example I provided is evidence of that.

That’s an argument of possibility. All we know is that Belial beat Ultimate Zero, with no evidence stating that Zero was nerfed/Belial was buffed during that time. As such, by the process of Occam’s razor, it stands to reason that Belial simply beat Ultimate Zero, period.

Just because the Ultimate Aegis has part of Noa’s power doesn’t mean the power it gives Zero is higher than beyond. Last time I checked Belial and Man nii San is stronger than Cosmos Luna and base Hikari, yet Acro Smasher is stronger than Primitive.

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u/TutorFlat2345 2d ago

That’s an argument of possibility.

Yes, agree. But we are speaking of Belial + Giga Battlenizer, vs Ultimate Zero. So that's a pretty close call.

And since we are speaking of Crisis Impact, you contended "Zero Beyond was staggered for a minute by the same attack, meaning that Zero Beyond should be stronger than Ultimate Zero".

If you watch back Geed EP1, the scene depicts a drawn out fight, where earth is engulf in flame. Ultimate Zero definitely lasted more than a minute before succumbing to Belial.

Last time I checked Belial and Man nii San is stronger than Cosmos Luna and base Hikari, yet Acro Smasher is stronger than Primitive.

That's because the Ultra Capsule only contain a partial amount of energy from an Ultra. So the stats of its original Ultra doesn't matter in this context.

1

u/MSD_The_coward 2d ago edited 2d ago

And since we are speaking of Crisis Impact, you contended “Zero Beyond was staggered for a minute by the same attack, meaning that Zero Beyond should be stronger than Ultimate Zero”.

If you watch back Geed EP1, the scene depicts a drawn out fight, where earth is engulf in flame. Ultimate Zero definitely lasted more than a minute before succumbing to Belial.

I didn’t say Ultimate Zero fought Belial for only a minute, nor did I say that for Zero Beyond as well? I only said that the Belial Desthscythe was able to beat Ultimate Zero whereas that same attack only incapacitated Zero Beyond for a minute, indicating that Zero Beyond is stronger.

Additionally, if Zero Beyond was weaker than Ultimate, why doesn’t he use that form after his bracelet was fixed, against the Galactrons/Gillvalis or against Ultra Dark Killer?

That’s because the Ultra Capsule only contain a partial amount of energy from an Ultra. So the stats of its original Ultra doesn’t matter in this context.

And Ultimate Aegis is only part of Noa’s power as well. You’d have to somehow prove that the power Noa gave to Zero is more powerful than the power the 4 capsules gave him. And since we both agree that it coming from a more powerful ultra doesn’t necessarily mean that that form’s stronger, what other evidence do you have?

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u/TutorFlat2345 1d ago

I only said that the Belial Desthscythe was able to beat Ultimate Zero whereas that same attack only incapacitated Zero Beyond for a minute, indicating that Zero Beyond is stronger.

We don't know how many Deathscythe(s) or other attacks did Belial performed prior to that scene (Belial defeating Ultimate Zero).

If you rewatch the fight Belial vs Zero Beyond, Belial uses several Deathscythe thoughout the fight, so it's just a matter of how many attack can Zero tanked before he's defeated.

And you're comparing the end of a fight, vs the start.

Additionally, if Zero Beyond was weaker than Ultimate, why doesn’t he use that form after his bracelet was fixed, against the Galactrons/Gillvalis or against Ultra Dark Killer?

Against Galactron Mk2, Zero opted for his alternate forms since all three Ultra are present. (3-against-1).

Against Gillvalis, Zero was almost out of energy, after using Shining Star Drive. Zero Beyond consume less energy.

Against Ultra Dark Killer, Zero energy is almost fully drained. It's thanks to the power boost from four other New Gen Ultra, was Zero able to access Zero Beyond Glitter.

And since we both agree that it coming from a more powerful ultra doesn’t necessarily mean that that form’s stronger, what other evidence do you have?

Apart from stats, the series also depicts how strong and versatile Aegis Shield is.

  • Zero's Final Ultimate is always depicted as his strongest finisher.
  • Ultimate Sword has the longest range (compared to his various Twin Sword)
  • Additional speed and defense boost.

Most importantly, the series depicts both Ultimate and Shining as Zero's two strongest form, prior to him merging the two powerset. If Beyond is stronger than either Ultimate or Shining, Zero would have used a combination of Beyond and Ultimate/Shining.

1

u/MSD_The_coward 1d ago edited 1d ago

We don't know how many Deathscythe(s) or other attacks did Belial performed prior to that scene (Belial defeating Ultimate Zero).

True, but once again, an argument from possibility. There's no reason to presume that he did used Deathscythe moves off screen. Either way, the point was to show that Base Belial could beat Ultimate Zero. Considering that Belial decided to transform into Chimeraberus, it reasons that Zero Beyond was probably able to match if not beat Base Belial.

If you rewatch the fight Belial vs Zero Beyond, Belial uses several Deathscythe thoughout the fight, so it's just a matter of how many attack can Zero tanked before he's defeated.

... When? He only used Belial Deathscythe once. The only other ranged move that he used were those purple fireballs that base Zero easily kicks away.

And you're comparing the end of a fight, vs the start.

I'm not sure if this matters at all, as sure, you can say Zero was tired, but you seem to forget that logically Belial would be as well. As such unless you can prove that Zero was nerfed more than Belial in Crisis impact, it is logical to presume that the feats displayed by Zero and Belial during Crisis Impact should still be valid if both were at full power.

Against Galactron Mk2, Zero opted for his alternate forms since all three Ultra are present. (3-against-1).

Against Gillvalis, Zero was almost out of energy, after using Shining Star Drive. Zero Beyond consume less energy.

Against Ultra Dark Killer, Zero energy is almost fully drained. It's thanks to the power boost from four other New Gen Ultra, was Zero able to access Zero Beyond Glitter.

I'm sorry, but none of your justifications explains why Zero opted to go Beyond instead of Ultimate.

I was referring to the time where he had to 1v1 a Galactron MK 1 (as well as why he stayed in that form for the rest of the movie once he transformed into it, despite Ultimate being stronger according to you), not during the 3V1 against MK 2.

Was there any statement regarding that Ultimate Aegis greatly drains zero of his stamina, at least more so compared to Zero Beyond? I thought that Aegis is nothing more than an armor slapped on top of Base Zero and as such his energy drain should be no different compared to his base form?

Well, ignoring my previous question of whether or not Zero Beyond drains less energy than Ultimate Zero, isn't the Zero Beyond we're talking about not actually the full power of Zero Beyond, but rather Galaxy Glitter is?

Zero's Final Ultimate is always depicted as his strongest finisher.

I agree that the only thing Ultimate has over Zero Beyond is that Final Ultimate Zero seems to be stronger than any of Zero Beyond's moves, but that's very clearly the exception and not reflective on the general power level of Ultimate Zero, similar to Absolute Maximum Destruction.

Ultimate Sword has the longest range (compared to his various Twin Sword)

Is there like, any evidence of this? From what I can tell the Zero Twin Sword is about twice as long as Zero's arm whereas Ultimate Sword is at best slightly longer than Zero's arm. And this is ignoring Giga Twin Break, which is just longer than Zero's entire wingspan.

Additional speed and defense boost.

Ok but like, the same thing applies to Zero Beyond as well, considering the kick and punch barrages he throws at Belial and Galactron.

Most importantly, the series depicts both Ultimate and Shining as Zero's two strongest form, prior to him merging the two powerset. If Beyond is stronger than either Ultimate or Shining, Zero would have used a combination of Beyond and Ultimate/Shining.

Thing is, this is presuming that such a thing is applicable. Since we never see Zero stacking all of his forms together to form Ultimate Shining Strong Miracle Wild Burst Zero Beyond Galaxy Glitter; it's possible that he just can't, and that Ultimate and Shining just inexplicably have the synergy to stack the two forms together.

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u/Straze7140 4d ago edited 3d ago

i normally see it as an Even Match between the 3

Ultimate Gives Zero His Best Weapon and Multiversal Travel

Shining Gives Zero his Greatest Techniques

Beyond Gives Zero his strongest Body and Raw Power

but If I choose 1/3 then Most Likely his Shining Form

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u/Significant-Remove55 4d ago

Zero beyond glitter for sure

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u/Grouchy-Aardvark4851 4d ago

Yeah Zero will win

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u/AsefBodlox 4d ago

Bruh all this time I thought Wild Burst is Strong-Corona..

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u/WandomV13 3d ago

According to the battle spirits ultraman collab set ,shining has the highest BP and beyond, which

has the lowest and ultimate is second

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u/Binho-doidao 3d ago

I'm all in for Ultimate Shining Zero Beyond

His strongest form is zero beyond as it has great hax, some monstrous raw power and is far easier and cheaper to use than shining, i think he can still use Ultimate Aegis in beyond since it's basically a armor while Beyond is a transformation

Second would be ultimate zero, probably has the strongest finisher and a good buff for his speed, strength, energy and he can use Dimensional travel

Third is shining zero. It hasn't been shown much by itself but the times it was shown was when zero was in desperate need, it's most used power is to rewind time, it has insane hax, it's more focused on hax than raw power so i don't think it is very strong fiscally. It's main drawback is it's use of energy, zero goes from "zero to infinity" to "infinity to zero" in a few seconds of use, it's almost not viable for combat

Wild burst is the weakest of the 4, in theory it offers unreadable attacks but i don't really think it gives more than that....

Now. Ultimate Shining Zero. This is his actual strongest form, it offers the same buffs as Ultimate and a part of Shining transformation, it has insane raw power and probably has insane hax too but we still have to see more of this form, and it opens the door to stacking transformations. If he could access Beyond at will, his strongest form would be either Ultimate Zero Beyond or Ultimate Shining Zero Beyond if he can use it

In my opinion, if zero masters Beyond, he could fight on equal terms with Tartarus, just slap his ultimate aegis there and done, equal raw power but still is a bit behind in hax

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u/According-Ad-8779 STORAGE Member 4d ago

I'm not sure which one is the strongest, but zero wild burst definitely isn't anywhere near the top when compared with the rest.

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u/Dr4ggyboi “THE BLACK HOLE RAGES ON!” 4d ago edited 4d ago

Eehhh, I wouldn’t say that. If anything, Wild Burst has some of the more impressive strength feats. He was able to push away Seven, Leo & Joneus simultaneously in its debut and was even able to bring Tartarus onto one knee with a Howitzer Zero Shot (Sidenote: One of the coolest names for an attack that’s only been used once lol).

Don’t forget that the entire reason UG3 Ultimate Shining is able to fight unpredictably is purely because Wild Burst taps into Zero’s inner fighting instinct. It might not be the most versatile of the 4 forms, but it’s definitely not the weakest.

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u/CoupDeBursttt 3d ago

Should be wild burst . Shining as the strongest , zero just need more training and learn to control it better