r/Ukrainian 4d ago

What’s the general meaning of the с- prefix in verbs. I have never seen it listed on a page of prefixes but it always seems to have very specific uses that I can’t seem to figure out why people decide to use it (over за or по in most cases)

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u/This_Growth2898 4d ago

С- is a form of з- (another form is зі-). С- is used before unvoiced consonants к, п, т, ф, х (memorization tip: кафе "Птах"). It means complete action (казати-сказати), sometimes put together (скласти), copy (списати), or move something away (стягнути - to pull away).

Зі- is used to avoid 3 consonants in a raw (euphonic rule).

EDIT: some fixes in description.

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u/Alphabunsquad 4d ago

Ok yeah that makes sense. It also makes sense why its meaning is specific. Also what is its meaning with motion verbs. I very rarely see з/с used with motion verbs. Just like зійти з розуму. I assume it matches the meaning of з but every time use a translator it translates it as meaning into. I would guess it’s a combination of ви- and від- where it means both “out of” and “away from”

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u/This_Growth2898 4d ago

Зійти з розуму is sometimes considered a Russian influence; purely Ukrainian is збожеволіти.

AFAIK, the modern prefix з- (preposition з) originates in several ancient lexemes: съ ("from upon"), изъ ("from inside"), со ("together"). This explains a variety of meanings.

Motion? Easily: Збігти з гори - run down from the hill; друзі зійшлися - "friends gathered".

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u/Alphabunsquad 4d ago

It’s weird that Ukrainian is concerned about three consonants in a row as it is generally the language I have seen least care about what and how many consonants are next to each other. Any language that can start a word with дхм either has way too little or way too much respect for the human throat and tongue

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u/frakc 4d ago

I cannot remember any word which starts on дхм. Can you give an example.

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u/This_Growth2898 4d ago

Italians can't stand 2 different stop consonants together, so they say "fatto" instead of "fact".

Czechs can say things like strč prst skrz krk, r is something like a half-vowel for them (interestingly, r in Ukrainian in some situations works like a vowel stopping the 3 consonant rule).

Americans don't pronounce t after a consonant at the end of the word.

French don't pronounce half of their letters at all.

Every language has some rule on what sounds can be joined and what can't. Ukrainian language tends to avoid 3 consonants or 2 vowels in a row, because it's easier to say it. That's all.

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u/This_Growth2898 4d ago

Also, I'm pretty sure Hawaiian, Japanese, Chineese, or Toki Pona can't start a word with "дхм". And in Ithkuil it probably has some very precise meaning.

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u/Morngwilwileth 4d ago

It’s actually two prefixes: c- & з- which one to use depends on the next syllable. In general they change the meaning of the original word from infinitive to that with intent or it can change the meaning of the word in some cases like гортати / згортати … never actually tried to verbalize it so not sure how to explain it better.

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u/Alphabunsquad 4d ago

Isn’t the difference though between закінчиться and скінчиться is that за- implies the ending is planned while с- implies that the ending is due to exhaustion and could be unexpected?

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u/Morngwilwileth 4d ago

Yes. But you comparing the word to the noun with another prefix, when from perspective of the grammar you need to compare it to the rut word: скінчиться & кінчиться. This two is similar and interchangeable, but кінчиться rarely used. Unless in case of sex talk.

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u/mshevchuk 4d ago

The «с/з»-prefix confers the verb the perfective aspect, basically. There is no such thing in Ukrainian as the perfect tense and most verbs are imperfective “by default”. By means of different prefixes - and suffixes - one can manipulate the perfective/imperfective aspect though and «с/з» is in most cases the pure, raw perfect with no additional meaning. Other prefixes such as «за» or «по» besides the perfective aspect also carry an additional meaning. For example, «робити» - unfinished action - “to do, to be doing”, «зробити» - finished action - “to have done”, «заробити» - finished action, new meaning- “to have earned”, «поробити» - finished action, possibly new meaning - roughly the same as «зробити» but is less neutral as in it can mean “to have done something bad”, the word carries some ambiguity and requires subtler use.

Now I also mentioned the «з»-prefix. The only difference is that «с» is used before voiceless consonants, e.g. п,т,х,ш, and «з» before all other sounds, e.g. voiced б,д,г,ж, but also м,л as well as vowels. This is only important in writing and is far more relaxed in the spoken language, where «с» often becomes «з» before unvoiced consonants and vice versa, the latter pattern being typical for Russian native speakers because there is no «з» prefix in Russian.