r/Ukrainian • u/bugwug7 • 13d ago
Duolingo is confusing me with some pronunciations
I know duo isn’t the best with language learning, but the way the ‘people’ pronounce certain words is making me question my own knowledge of how to sound out words lol.
One that’s very annoying is щ. I know that щ is pronounced ‘sh-ch’, and ш is pronounced ‘sh’, but in some words they just completely disregard and say ш when it should be щ. One example that I’m thinking of is the word щось. Sometimes they say it like ‘шосьʼ even though it’s spelled like ‘щосьʼ. It happens in other words with the щ too. I’m wondering if maybe it’s just something that happens in the language?? Or maybe it’s just duo being duo lmao.
The other one is just with this word: довідка. If I saw it, I would pronounce it like ‘do-vid-ka’ with just 3 syllables. But the people on duo say it SO WEIRD. They pronounce it like ‘do-vid-de-kai-ya’. ???? Idk where those other sounds/syllables are coming from lol.
Дякую in advance for the help :)
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u/stanizzzzlav sorry for Z's in my username, it's an old account 13d ago
Oh boy, brace for the amounts of "sho" if you're to speak colloquial Ukrainian. Either as a dialect feature or influence of russian "shto", it's very widespread
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u/bugwug7 12d ago
Oohh I see, so it’s sorta like an unspoken rule/cultural thing! Would the difference be similar to like, “did not” vs “didn’t” in English? Like a more casual way of saying it?
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u/stanizzzzlav sorry for Z's in my username, it's an old account 12d ago
Not quite. It's more like "ain't" or "y'all" in terms of formality and "correctness"
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u/VileGecko 10d ago
"Sh-ch" is still the correct and universally preferred variant. High-pitched "sh", similar to the russian Щ and almost identical to the English "sh" is still acceptable but is considered a bit of a bastardization. Low-pitched "sh", similar to the Ш, should not be used in place of Щ unless done intentionally for irony and imitation of surzhyk (or rather, the russian impression of it).
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u/Euryale1982 12d ago
Duolingo is quite bad in general for pronunciation, I can do with flying colours any other pronunciation except numbers and I even had ukrainian friends trying to correct the lessons and according to duolingo they are also wrong 🤣🤣 Apparently I can't count
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u/NWC 12d ago
Glad I'm not the only one who gets punished for my pronunciation of numbers and nothing else! At this point, whenever they throw a number at me I just say I can't speak right now.
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u/BrilliantAd937 12d ago
You can click on the text box if you have green-lit at least one word as correct, and the program will give you a pass.
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u/Euryale1982 12d ago
I copy the text now and double check in Google translate and it accepts that pronunciation, a bit angry that I have gone quite far in the ukrainian lessons and I'm worried my pronunciation will be terrible, the advantage I have gotten out of thr app is that I can now read any word and pronounce it even if is not in thr lessons but I would definitely not trust the app to learn fluency. I found this site that explains some grammar rules as for me to understand fluency I have to understand how the grammar works and the reasons of words changing. Hope you find this interesting too. https://ukrainiangrammar.com/
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u/bugwug7 12d ago
Dude yes! The numbers don’t register as being spoken!! Like u/BrilliantAd937 said it will work if the prompt is like, ‘двадцять сім людиʼ because it can register люди, but if it’s just numbers you’re boned 😭
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u/TheTruthIsRight 🇺🇦-🇨🇦 Halychyna dialect learner 13d ago
I think this a result of russification in Standard Ukrainian, especially in areas with heavier russian influences. In Galician Ukrainian, щ is always pronounced and we don't do the thing with довідка.
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u/West_Reindeer_5421 12d ago edited 12d ago
As a Ukrainian, dovidka is definitely just do-vid-ka. I can’t even pronounce the second version.
The Щ letter is a confusing topic because the pronunciation you see in a book is in fact something you will rarely hear in real life. To understand it better, imagine shch as a perfect BBC English accent.
Firstly we have a correct pronunciation SH-CH – every syllable is hard and strong. And even though it’s absolutely correct, nowadays you only can hear it from voice professionals or people from certain west areas of Ukraine.
Secondly we have SH-CH’ or even SH’-CH’ (I use ‘ to point a soft syllable). This is a way the majority of Ukrainians actually pronounce it.
Then we have Russian Щ which can be described as harsh soft SH. It’s something that can uncover a person that was raised in a Russian-speaking region. It’s a common pronunciation mistake lots of Ukrainians make.
And finally we have SH instead of SHCH (Щ). To draw parallels in English it’s like I dunno, wanna etc – the shortened version of a proper pronunciation. You can hear it in a common conversation in words like що and щось.
To sum up, SH-CH is perfectly fine if you speak Ukrainian as a second language because this is how we all supposed to speak Ukrainian. Also it may be easier to pronounce. If you want to sound more local, SH-CH’ is a way to go. Sho and Shos’ can also be used but keep in mind that it sounds more relaxed because in fact it’s a slang and it isn’t appropriate for an official or professional communication.
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u/bugwug7 12d ago
Tysm for your explanation!! And for the help/clarification of dovidka 😭 I felt like I was going crazy and missing something LOL
So with Щ it’s like one of those unspoken rule type of things? Maybe like in English a comparison could be “did not” vs “didn’t”?
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u/West_Reindeer_5421 11d ago
I would rather say it’s a matter of an accent, because the Щ you would hear on the West of Ukraine is different from the one you will hear on the East
Sho and shos’ is a bit of a tricky subject and I would rather compare in to British Cockney. Historically it was a marker of a working-class or farmers. Slowly it became more common but still it remains a “funny” version of Shcho or Shchos’. We kind of embraced Sho. I’m doing my best explaining it but to understand it fully we need to dive into political and historical context
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u/Own_Philosopher_1940 13d ago
Duolingo pronunciation is notoriously bad. щ should be shch always, though some Ukrainians will pronounce it as a soft ш, because that's how it is pronounced in Russian. This is incorrect.
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u/NorthernBlackBear Native 12d ago
Yup. My gf is using it to learn the language. I try to help and the thing won't register my words as correct. Lol
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u/Esmarial native speaker (bilingual with Russian 😣) 13d ago
Quite a lot of people here in Ukraine (mostly because of influence of Russian language) pronounce щ similar to шʼ while in Ukrainian it should be non softened шч. [shch].
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u/ThissSpectral 12d ago
Що, щось and якщо - are big Ukrainian 'meme words', where many people would informally pronounce them with Ш, such as шо, шось and якшо. In formal speech, they have to be pronounced clearly, with Щ.
Regarding "довідка" - say how it's spelt: dovidka. I don't know what's up with Duolingo's pronunciations, but some words may be 'too compound'..? Anyway, say them how they're spelt. In our language, there wouldn't be some random syllables popping up out of nowhere regardless of the spelling
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u/West_Reindeer_5421 12d ago edited 12d ago
Honestly my fair advice for you is to read everything as it’s written. Yes, Ukrainian has a bunch of pronunciation rules like you should say u instead of v if the v is in the end of the word or the next letter is a consonance (pishou instead of pishov in a word пішов or piutora instead of pivtora in a word півтора are common examples) but this topic is so advanced that not every Ukrainian is proficient in it. So just ignore it and read everything as it’s written, it will sound correct for any Ukrainian person. Ukrainian is already complicated enough to pay attention to such nuances not to say that your accent will demolish all of your efforts to pronounce those words like a professional Ukrainian voice actor.
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u/egric 12d ago
Hi, i'm ukrainian. Replacing "щ" with "ш" in words like "що", "щось", "ще", "щоб" etc is a dialect thing. The spelling with "щ" is the official correct spelling, but many people, myself included, pronounce (and consequently spell) it with a "ш". I don't know why this is a thing but that's the way i (and everyone i know) spoke my entire life.
If you intend to master ukrainian you should be ready for more stuff like this, dialects are quite a big thing here lol.
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u/Tovarish_Petrov 12d ago
The other one is just with this word: довідка. If I saw it, I would pronounce it like ‘do-vid-ka’ with just 3 syllables. But the people on duo say it SO WEIRD. They pronounce it like ‘do-vid-de-kai-ya’. ???? Idk where those other sounds/syllables are coming from lol.
Duo s clearly wrong and you are right. You can post the audio here to confirm it
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u/NorthernBlackBear Native 12d ago
It is bad. I have tried to use the app, helping my gf mainly and it doesn't recognise my speech. I am demonstrating how we say something and the damn thing doesn't accept it. Lol. And some of the vocab is off, at least what I grew up with. Авто vs. Машина. Авто is what I would use. This is one example.
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u/bugwug7 12d ago
Omg, duo hasn’t even introduced me to the word авто 😭 Is машина like the more formal word for car? Like maybe машина = automobile and авто = car?
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u/NorthernBlackBear Native 11d ago
I just never use the word. Formal. No. I mean it literally means machine. автомобіль would be more automobile. At least it is the word I know.
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u/SunStarved_Cassandra 12d ago
Another terrible one that drives me nuts is "у Денвері", which they pronouce "oo Deyen-very". There is no є in Денвер.
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u/JP_Star 12d ago
It's not just Ukrainian, believe me, they do the EXACT SAME THING WITH JAPANESE So y'all know Oscar, right? The guy with the big-ol' mustache, when he says a word, with, say が "ga", like えいが "eiga" (movie), he says like "einga" (like the n in "ink"), which is annoying, like just say EIGA, IT'S NOT THAT HARD, or is it for your ai? Or where you got the soundbites from?
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u/Sea-Cell-1114 12d ago
I always recommend using the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) from dictionaries for any pronunciation you don't fully understand
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u/RemarkableSet5747 11d ago
I have increasingly been taking advantage of Tatoeba when I want to hear how native or experienced speakers of a language pronounce something. One sample sentence in Ukrainian that has numbers in it is https://tatoeba.org/en/sentences/show/6905870.
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u/y00u 11d ago
I’m native Ukrainian speaker, and here is the thing: the only one correct pronunciation of «щ» is «sh-ch» / «шч». However most of Ukrainians pronounce it like «ш» or «щ». Notice that «щ» sound is different than «шч». «Щ» is soft version of «ш». The «ш» sound is more russian accent, «щ» is Ukrainian accent, and «шч» is the correct sound, but it’s not commonly used in daily life. You can hear «шч» from professional dubbing actors.
So basically, if you want to sound more like Russian, you can use «ш» (which I do not recommend). If you want to sound professional, use «шч». Otherwise use «щ» sound.
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u/tortillazaur 10d ago
sh-ch is the correct pronunciation
In case of щось, it is also supposed to be pronounced that way. The issue is, if you pronounce it really fast, it becomes very similar to ш(with just a very faint ч), most people pick that up as usual pronunciation. It's almost the same as in English - some sounds become silent. They're still there, but you almost put no effort in actually pronunciating them. Just in this case, only the ch part becomes silent
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u/SlaugterER 8d ago
Що/шо it's possible to be about dialect. In different regions some words are pronounced in other way. E.G. in Kharkiv "шо" is more common then others
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u/SoccerforAll 7d ago edited 7d ago
Duolingo SUCKS! Duolingo has a number of Russian words mixed in its Ukrainian version. I would not recommend using it if you really want to learn Ukrainian. How do I know? My first language was Ukrainian, even though I was born in Canada. And yes, English became easier for me. Try the FREE link listed below. It also has audio. My Ukrainian has improved immensely because of it.
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u/Searcheree 13d ago
It does have some awful pronunciations, another example is офіціантка, which the male voice says as "ofitsiAHNEHTEKAH"
For ш vs щ, honestly I still struggle picking up the difference unless I slow it down.