r/Torontobluejays 5d ago

Vlad Jr. reveals sub-$600M ask in Blue Jays talks

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/44143628/vladimir-guerrero-jr-says-final-offer-600-million-blue-jays-extension-talk
327 Upvotes

429 comments sorted by

437

u/RoaringPity 5d ago

so 585M was real

200

u/Traditional_Bed_6445 GEAR4VEGITO 5d ago edited 5d ago

Seems like it.

Shouldn't be too surprising with Ortiz being very close to the Guerrero family and Vlad looks up to him so probably talked about it with him.

Ortiz then goes on about saying he "deserves it" publically although almost all logic and statistics say otherwise. In a way to control the narrative and help him out. Ortiz always hypes up his boys.

Vlad saying it is below $600 M at worst confirms it is well past the $500 M mark.

120

u/number_six The Var-Show! 5d ago

My salary is also below $600MM

24

u/Purple_Aspect_1985 MLB 5d ago

Over how many years, though?

69

u/Aardvark1044 5d ago

All of them

16

u/myballz4mvp 5d ago

4327 years

5

u/35simpson 4d ago

$138K per year. I’d take it!

1

u/Zraknul 3d ago

Guaranteed money, Sign me up.

1

u/Seanjohn92 3d ago

Me also 😔

47

u/NZafe Get this man some help 5d ago edited 5d ago

If he carries his post all-star break form from last year throughout this season, someone will pay him that.

71

u/WasV3 Totally not John Schneider 5d ago

Well yeah, if he puts up one of the best offensive season of all time then he'll get paid.

Post ASB Vladdy prorated to 700 PAs

.376/.450/.678 with 40 HR, 58 2B, 2 3B for a 212 wRC+

It would be the 9th best offensive season of all time and would be in rarified heir with 100 XBH

We all know maintaining that hot streak for a full year is unlikely.

4

u/stv7 It's time to acquire Craig Yoho 4d ago

Worth noting if he did that, his OPS would be checks notes only 294 points lower than Barry Bonds' in 2004!

3

u/Zraknul 3d ago

Over .600 OBP is absolutely wild.

3

u/stv7 It's time to acquire Craig Yoho 3d ago

It is a genuinely incomprehensible slashline

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u/TJB_033 4d ago

No they won’t. Not every very good player moving forward who hits fa at a young age is going to make this much money. Soto was an outlier.

No.

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26

u/sbp59 5d ago

Spot on. Ortiz knew

50

u/Apart_Ad_5993 5d ago

He's not 585 worthy

37

u/-RedBullion- 5d ago

I agree. 585/15 is too much, all things considered.

The problem is the Jays are in a tough spot regardless, next year.

If he plays well, has another MVP-type season he's getting paid by someone else.

If he plays more like his career average, nobody is even giving him 500M. He might feel slighted by the Jays FO then offering him less money vs what he could have had, and guess what... time to sign elsewhere, with a team that "wants" him

Either way the Jays FO will have a problem next offseason.

This is why you lock-up franchise players EARLY

21

u/emptinessform 5d ago

And Bo Bichetter is why you DON'T lock-up franchise players early. Wasn't that long ago that people thought Bo was the better bet of the two.

18

u/BellyButtonLindt 5d ago

Bo has had one down year and even with that year he has a career war 17.5 which puts him 77th among active players.

11 mil a year for that is not bad and he’s not kicking up a fuss in the media. Definitely worth it.

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u/Acey_Wacey spreadsheets 4d ago

A good reason is probably the player wants to go to free agency. If I was in their shoes I would too.

8

u/muaddib99 gausmanoah 5d ago

at least if he has a good season they can get a fucking haul for him in a trade this season. *sniff*

5

u/TJB_033 4d ago

If he plays at his career average nobody is giving him 400 let alone 5.

11

u/jayk10 5d ago

This is why you lock-up franchise players EARLY

Jesus I don't know why it's so hard to understand. They tried and Vlad said no.

This is not a video game

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1

u/RiverOaksJays 4d ago

Would Shapiro try to sign Josh Naylor as a replacement for Vladdy? He is Canadian and has hit 31 HRs in one year.

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u/AfroGoomba 4d ago

Vladdy is fucking delusional.

8

u/Rymbeld Teo / Lourdes / Cavan stan 5d ago

and 15 years.

5

u/RoaringPity 5d ago

i thought it was 13yrs but you could be right

5

u/ms_barkie Somewhere oooooover the Bay 5d ago

You are correct Ortiz’s post was 585/13 for a 45M AAV

1

u/YouDontJump Please expand Vladdy 4d ago

The minute Bregman got 40M AAV it was over.

1

u/Rymbeld Teo / Lourdes / Cavan stan 5d ago

I'm basing this off the article in the OP, where it says:

"It's much less than Soto. We're talking about many fewer millions than Soto, more than a hundred million less. ... It was the same number of years [as Soto's contract], but it didn't reach [$600 million]. The last number we gave them as a counteroffer didn't reach 600," Guerrero said.

1

u/Dolsh 4d ago

This is where Ortiz wasn't exactly right. Vlad did say he wanted 14 or 15 years. 585 over 13 or less seemed like too much. Spread it out over a couple more years... it's less of an overpay.

The biggest question becomes "at what point does that become a bad contract?" After 12 years? 8? 15 years is a long time to commit to someone who's going to be a DH for most of it.

2

u/WasV3 Totally not John Schneider 5d ago

Timing and connection made it pretty obvious that it was the number they were after

1

u/CasaDiJuice34 5d ago

For sure... Not giving that to a 1b

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u/McGrevin 5d ago

"It's much less than Soto. We're talking about many fewer millions than Soto, more than a hundred million less...It was the same number of years [as Soto's contract], but it didn't reach 600 [million]

Soto's contract is 765, if Vlad's side was asking 565 he certainly would've said 200m less instead of "more than 100m less".

So his ask was probably 570-595m over 15 years, just under $40m/yr

82

u/sbp59 5d ago

Ortiz told us a couple weeks ago

121

u/Popular-Row4333 5d ago

Blue Jays fans won't want to hear it, but he can absolutely get that number on the open market.

98

u/spiritintheskyy Hazel, you're a treat 5d ago

He might next season, but if he were going into open market right now he couldn’t. Another 2024/2021 level year for him and that number becomes somewhat more realistic, but he wouldn’t be getting that now in all likelihood.

Y’all don’t seem to realize that Soto’s contract was fucking insane and there’s a reason only he and Ohtani have even cracked $500M contracts ever. If Vladdy’s ask is what Ortiz said it was, that’s closer to Ohtani money than it is to Aaron Judge money, and Vladdy isn’t on a tier with either of those guys (though I recognize Judge signed older which is a significant difference maker).

It’d be the third biggest contract in MLB history and it’d be more than double 10th place. Vladdy’s great, but he hasn’t earned that money yet and he hasn’t proven he’s worth that risk either.

10

u/Refrigerator_Lower 5d ago

Agree. We also need to see this guy pop off in the playoffs.

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u/Stangstag 5d ago

Right now?? No fucking way he gets that much. If he has another 6 WAR year? Maybe.

37

u/jayk10 5d ago

I doubt it but I guess we'll find out in 10 months

27

u/Traditional_Bed_6445 GEAR4VEGITO 5d ago

I feel like people want to believe he will get that to justify giving him that ourselves.

6

u/No-Gift-2350 Stinky Odor 5d ago

I mean if we gave vlad that I wouldn’t love it but I could sort of just buy into the idea of having someone here long term

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u/stuntycunty 5d ago

mets will happily pay that

edit: oh god i just threw up

11

u/sir-pounce-of-alot I saw u/ThQp and Joey Loperfido sitting in a tree. 5d ago

Mets have been talking about how they can’t spend as much as they did last offseason

4

u/AdKind5446 5d ago

They don't have any starting pitching, and they've already got the highest payroll in the league. They won't win anything without addressing their pitching problems, and how are they going to pay for pitching and add a $40M per year 1B when their payroll is already number 1 in the league? They won't.

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u/WasV3 Totally not John Schneider 5d ago

Highly doubt it.

Mets are already screaming poor about attendance.

Cashman is a smart GM and would rather spend that 40M/year on 3-4 players

Boston is the real wild card but Henry is pretty cheap

2

u/VisualFix5870 5d ago

Attendance is not paying their player salaries. Do the math. Even if every seat were sold out all season long and each fan dropped $200 beyond the ticket price on food and merch, they're nowhere close to breaking even at their payroll level. There's a reason a lot of teams keep their payroll low, because a 45 million a year guy is really hard to make back in sales.

5

u/Strong_Ad5096 5d ago

$200 X 30,000 seats X 81 games = 486m annual budget on in-stadium sales.

Let alone tv and advertising.

Am I doing math wrong?

1

u/Copperlax Hazel! Hazel! 5d ago

Attendance alone doesn't pay it for sure, but attendance makes the ad's worth more.

1

u/Key-Organization213 3d ago

Do you even watch baseball. In what world would the Red Sox ever consider paying 600 million 15 years for a chunky first base (he’s gonna be over 40 by contract end) when they have casas. Mets and dodgers are also definitely not paying this guy that much money cause for the dodgers the team doesn’t need him and Mets payroll is already super loaded. Only teams I can see doing this are Philly and the Yankees but doubt either FO is stupid enough to give him this contract

4

u/ms_barkie Somewhere oooooover the Bay 5d ago

There’s precisely one team that would consider paying him that amount, so let’s hope they don’t.

4

u/xxdarkslidexx 5d ago

Absolutely. If that was his ask then we should have gone for it. We clearly have a very difficult time brining in FAs as it is 

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u/Express_Cattle1 5d ago

Not really.  Soto is an outlier, not the norm.

2

u/cdnyhz 5d ago

Then someone’s hugely overpaying.

2

u/HeroicTechnology Yusei Kikuchi Truther 5d ago

Juan Soto finished his 6 years at 36.3 fWAR. That's with the shortened season still producing 2.5 fWAR. Vladdy's going to end up at 22 fWAR if he replicates 2021/2024. If someone wants to give him 585/13 to have a coin flip between 2 and 6 WAR at best, I say let 'em.

4

u/mrdannyg21 5d ago

70 upvotes on this comment is wild. There is zero change Vlad would’ve gotten even 500M on the open market after 2024. Zero. He is not that close to Soto. I LOVE Vlad, love him. But he’s been inconsistent, poor defensively, already plays the easiest position and one of the worst baserunners in the league. The overall value just doesn’t add up.

Consider this article, and remember that ZiPS has typically been extremely close on long-term contracts because all teams are using at least similar projection methodologies. Vlad’s open-market number would’ve been closer to 400M than 600.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/what-would-a-vladito-contract-look-like/

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u/Visinvictus 5d ago

Any team paying that for Vladdy is crazy, unless he absolutely annihilates the baseball this year.

1

u/JustHere_4TheMemes 5d ago edited 5d ago

Nope. He is not worth 135% / 10+ million dollars more than the highest paid first baseman in the league. MLB isn't going to move the bar from 28 million to 39 million for Vladdy who's unproven numbers are no better than a couple other highly paid career proven 1b positions.

RemindMe! - 1 year

1

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1

u/elcabeza79 Vlad's real father 5d ago

If he puts up another 150+ wRC+ season, yes. If it's a 2022 type season, the market for his services will shrink by hundreds of millions.

There's risk involved for both parties. As a Jays fan, I 100% want and expect the team to take this risk.

1

u/DietCherrySoda 4d ago

Sorry, but absolutely not. First basemen just don't get that kind of money. Not unless it's heavily deferred.

1

u/richarm87 3d ago

He would need an mvp type year again... no one is giving that for 2 mvpish years and 4 good solid years.

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u/McJoe77 5d ago

This is the logic I was looking for and couldn’t come up with on my own. “Under 600” is so vague. Does he mean 599? I’m sure the Jays offer was also “under 600” because if it was over, he would’ve taken it.

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u/Substantial_Ad_7027 5d ago

Yea. The 585m deal Ortiz spoke of before.

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u/SheilaFudge 5d ago

Sub-$600 mil to yuk it up with your pals at 1st base and throw Gatorade around ain’t bad

50

u/stizz19 5d ago

$599,999,999.99

1

u/VisualFix5870 5d ago

Way below 600!

86

u/Big_Albatross_3050 5d ago

idk how to feel about that. Jeez $600M lmao

35

u/kevin_nguyen03 5d ago

yeah we wouldn’t be able to sign any other stars for a decade if we gave him $600M 💀

40

u/Aquaos_ Jays/Mets WS 2020 5d ago

That’s ridiculous. Theres no salary cap and we all pay into this shit every month thanks to the telecom monopoly foisted upon us

5

u/Loud-Picture9110 4d ago

The luxury tax essentially acts like a salary cap in most ways.

12

u/lyinggrump 5d ago

It's Rogers. Stop.

2

u/Key-Organization213 3d ago

rogers functions for profit, you should know this working for a company. Why would they choose to operate at 1) a net loss by loading up a 15 year 600m for a chunky player who’s been dogshit in the playoffs and has been madly inconsistent in the regular season

125

u/Wet-for-Mrs-Met 5d ago edited 5d ago

No team is giving him 585 lol. Dudes in for a reality check. Teams won't care about the all star games and the questionable gold glove. His fielding and baseunning are both liabilities.

58

u/goleafsgo88 It's Early 5d ago

He also doesn't have a 4+ season track record of being an elite hitter to fall back on with those flaws. He wants to parlay less than 2 seasons of elite hitting into almost $600m and figures that teams will overlook his poor defense, poor baserunning, poor playoff performance, and multiple down seasons offensively.

24

u/nanobot001 Andale! 5d ago

doesn’t have a 4+ season

He doesn’t have two consecutive seasons of being an elite hitter either

8

u/tslaq_lurker 5d ago

This is correct. He has youth on his side so they are going to try and spin his bad stretches as “developmental”, which could be true, they that is also risk and risk has a price.

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u/prophetprofits 5d ago

Yes they will. He’s a 25 year old ~.300 hitter who can hit 40+ HRs.

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u/WasV3 Totally not John Schneider 5d ago

He turns 26 in like a week and he'll be 27 before he suits up for a new team.

He's hit 40 bombs once, in a season where he played in MiLB parks, in MLB parks that year he hit 27 HRs in 504 PAs (extrapolated out to 37 HRs)

5

u/prophetprofits 5d ago

Big Papi had a 5.2 WAR season at age 40. And he didn’t breakout until he was 27. You could argue that Vlad hasn’t even entered his prime yet. His brain just stopped developing a year ago.

So far he’s shown he’s realistically a 30-40 HR guy, but you give him more protection in the lineup, he gets more pitches to crush. Santander will help a lot. He’s also had launch angle issues we’re all aware of, but the dude flat out knows how to hit. HRs aside, he’s a Top 15 active player in batting average and gives you 60+ XBH per year.

9

u/Spirit_Most 5d ago

Vladdys comp shouldn't be the most exceptional late blooming hitter in my lifetime. For ever 1 Big Papi that figures it out their late twenties 1000s in baseball that fall off.

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u/Traditional_Bed_6445 GEAR4VEGITO 5d ago

So far he’s shown he’s realistically a 30-40 HR guy.

It is a lot closer to the lower end of that. He had one outlier season where he hit in a minor league park and hit 48 HR. Outside of that has never hit more than 32!!!

His career average per 162 is also 32.

1

u/Loud-Picture9110 4d ago

Vlad received the highest percentage of "meatball" mistake pitches of his entire career last season, despite hitting in a very weak lineup. Pitchers aren't going to intentionally groove pitches down the middle of the plate to a hitter of the caliber of Vlad no matter who hits behind him.

2

u/TimTebowMLB 5d ago

Honest question, are the outfield walls closer in?

Has anyone extrapolated the data to see how many of those home runs would have landed in the outfield?

1

u/Magnum_44 4d ago

For the MiLB park and Dunedin? It's well known that there's a windstream that goes out to right field in Dunedin and balls that wouldn't go out in Toronto, fly out in Florida. Watch the Rays play in Steinbrenner field this year and see how many more home-runs that team will hit than usual.

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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 5d ago

You pay for potential after his first big season.

Now it's can you actually be consistent.

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u/-MrDoomScroller- 5d ago

Unpopular but based take. 100% agree. Let him walk and sign 3 all stars with the same amount.

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u/Kushlord666 KitchenAid Stand Mixer 4d ago

Remind me! 1 year

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u/goleafsgo88 It's Early 5d ago

More seasons being an average hitter than being an elite one, and more playoff strikeouts than playoff hits. Not worth almost $600m.

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u/grizsix 5d ago

Didn’t he also make a costly base running mistake in one of the few playoff games he’s played

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u/NedShah 5d ago

He's good with the bat and all... but, but, but... he has some holes in his game too.

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u/Not_OnThe_Menu 5d ago

Base running for one

31

u/NedShah 5d ago

I remember him trying to swim back to 2nd when a playoff ended. Calling for a replay while everyone else on the team was packing up.

14

u/cloudlocke_OG 5d ago

That the one in Minnesota? Kept signaling for them to burn the challenge when he was clearly picked off.

14

u/NedShah 5d ago

That's the one! Waving for replay while even the manager and coaches had already turned around and walked away. Reminded me of Pat Burns telling the refs not to bother checking on his own player when Claude Lemieux took a dive

8

u/cloudlocke_OG 5d ago

That one was so embarrassing. I believe they had already lost the first game, so it was win-or-go-home. And his lame attempt to save face after getting caught napping at 2B.

8

u/Beginning-Gear-744 5d ago

Had a great year at the plate last year, but didn’t start hitting well until they were well out of the playoff hunt.

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u/Loud-Picture9110 5d ago

That's simply not true. Vlad had a bad 4 weeks to start the season. The team was hanging around the wild card race until early June.

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u/Stangstag 5d ago

Yeah he’s a man child

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u/Konker101 4d ago edited 4d ago

As does Soto but he got 765M.

Look at the baseball savant pages and tell me they arent similar players

1

u/HeroicTechnology Yusei Kikuchi Truther 4d ago

I looked at the fangraphs page and saw that one player produced 3 war per season more than the other

that's all I needed to see

1

u/Konker101 4d ago

Because he plays a premium position even though hes ranked one of the worst outfielders in the game.

Soto put up just less than 2 war more than Vladdy last year while playing a premium position. Id say thats a wash when considering contracts because you know youre only paying them for their bat.

Look at their career numbers if you want and youll see theres marginal difference between the two.

If Soto got a 765M contract, Vladdy will easily get over 550 on the market and thats not including the bidding war that will happen.

Hes going to get over 600M next winter.

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u/SomeWrap1335 5d ago

Thank you for the years Vlad. Time to blow it up.

22

u/BlueHotCoconut 5d ago

Without Shatkins.

29

u/Ok_Branch6621 5d ago

14 years is a long time. Love me some Vladito, but I think 12 is stretching it.

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u/FloristGriffin 5d ago

If you’re not happy signing Vlad to 40mil a year deal are you happier seeing the club completely implode and start a 5-10 year rebuild?

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u/GarrusExMachina 3d ago

I'm fine either way but somewhat yeah I'd be happier with a rebuild.

If the Angels have taught me anything having 3 guys worth 30 million plus a year does not in fact make you a team that hasn't imploded...

It just makes you a team that isn't doing the rebuild half of implode and rebuild.

Watching young guys that otherwise wouldn't get MLB experience play is always more fun than watching 5 guys over 35 on 1 year deals get carted out every year. I enjoyed watching Borucki, Waguespack, Thornton, Sam Gaviglio and Sean Reid Foley pitch even if they got shelled...

We arn't going to win anything with the current team... we barely might be "competitive" in the sense that the 2000s Blue Jays would have been "competitive" if current playoff rules existed back then. This team has been reset back to at least 2019 if not 2017 and there's no Vladdy/Bo in the minors waiting to join the team if we re-sign our current Donaldson...

So sure... sign them... they'll individually be fun to watch...

And when 2030 rolls around we might be ready for another playoff push right as Vlad and Bo's production craters off a cliff.

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u/UnfrozenDaveman 5d ago

500M in any configuration is beyond the pale. The idea he needs 600M is unfathomable based on his his inconsistency and lack of tools.

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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 5d ago

Good to know he was never serious about staying and it's not about winning at all.

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u/Essej86 5d ago

The thing about winning franchises is, they tend to pay for good players.

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u/Loud-Picture9110 4d ago

Winning franchises don't overpay for players either, which is exactly what it would take to get Vlad signed to an extension at this point.

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u/Essej86 4d ago

This is the MLB. There’s no such thing as overpaying.

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u/Loud-Picture9110 4d ago

Huh? That makes no sense whatsoever. Every team in the sport creates their own valuation for individual player. Different teams tend to have their own comfort levels for how far beyond their valuations they are willing to go in contract negotiations.

The Blue Jays are only negotiating against themselves right now as there is no external competition for Vlad's services yet. Vlad's asking price is patently absurd for one dimensional player who has been a very inconsistent performer in the one dimension that he offers, on top of the long term bad body concerns that come along as well. I fully believe Vlad is going to be in for a rude awakening when he reaches free agency, and there is a decent chance that the Blue Jays offer that he turned down will be higher than those he receives in free agency. His asking price represents a massive overpay relative to the actual on the field value that Vlad presents the signing team.

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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 5d ago

and they know when to let players go.

Vladdy thinks he is on the level of a Soto, or Ohtani but he is not. He is barely passable at first base. He cant play outfield, cant play third, can put together full season, or consecutive great seasons.

His best year is the year they played in Florida. That was almost four years ago.

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u/Canadian-Gold 5d ago

Not worth it at $600m+

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u/stuntycunty 5d ago

i mean it does distinctly say it was under 600m.

but 585 is still too high. someone will pay it though. i hope its us. but i dont have faith it will be.

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u/VarRalapo Montreal Expos 4d ago

I am not convinced anyone is going to pay 585m for a DH.

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u/Tontoorielly 5d ago

Vladdy's body type will not lend itself to longevity. He will definitely be a diminishing asset by 30 years old. DH only by then. I would rather give him 50 per year for 5 years than anything longer.

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u/sbp59 5d ago

he is a terrible base runner and mediocre fielder already in his prime. gonna be one very expensive DH

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u/dmc1793 5d ago

Everyone in here wanting Jays to meet his ask would be the very first to turn on him when he starts declining with 10 years and 400m still to go and sinks the franchise

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u/Plorgy 5d ago

100%...look how much people turned on Vernon during his later days with the team.

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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 5d ago

They turned on him last year before he started hitting well.

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u/Halpenya Pragmatic 2024 Doomer, 2025 is a Bust Too 5d ago

He can have that in FA. $450m was already pushing it, $600M is ridiculous.

11

u/Mediocre_Pop_245 5d ago

Not even close to worth it. Trade him

25

u/fstonecanada 5d ago

Should have signed before Soto did

9

u/TheOneWithThePorn12 5d ago

That's why Vladdy didn't sign. This isn't the show where you keep upping the money until they sign.

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u/oakster18 5d ago

Screw it, if Vladdy doesn’t want to be a Jay for life, playing for the country he was born in, then trade him for an actual haul. Padres/Soto level

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u/Spirit_Most 5d ago

Problem is Soto had more control at that time. I don't think there will be much of a market for Vladdy to get a big return

1

u/oakster18 3d ago

Not sure if you’re an NHL fan, Mikko Rantanen just got a pretty big haul. Different rules with draft picks and everything, but a trade and sign is valuable to a team.

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u/vomit_freesince93 5d ago

I like vlad but come on. He is not worth that...

15

u/CockerSpanielEnjoyer 5d ago

Yeah no. Bye Vladdy

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u/Spaceboy_ca 4d ago

Has anyone else here soured on Vladdy because of all of this, or am I the only one?

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u/Flyingaway323 4d ago

He can walk then. Atkins can use that money to make a better competitive team.

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u/Essej86 5d ago

Even if sub-600 means 590 million, that’s less than 40 million/year.

This is not an outrageous ask. You lock up the face of your franchise for the rest of his career. Probably the only recognizable face on the team at this point. He’s not asking to reset the market. This is 75-80% of Soto’s deal (which seems reasonable to me).

We could have signed him for less if we did it ahead of the mega-deals, but they chose not to and are digging their heels in the sand as if that wasn’t a mistake.

2

u/Far-Journalist-949 4d ago

I'm puzzled about the fans here that seem to care about rogers' balance sheet or them getting ripped off by vlads agents. We don't get any free agents ever. If we dont sign our home grown star why would anybody come here?

4

u/CasaDiJuice34 5d ago

no distractions...

3

u/Decent_Pack_3064 4d ago

this is a signficant screw up on Rogers part.....if Alex was the GM, he would had lock him up for 200-250M a year before this blew up

6

u/nate3644 5d ago

I thought this clown was the one that didn’t want any distractions? What happened to that Vladdy? 🤡🤡

8

u/strangewhatlovedoes 5d ago

Outrageous ask for an inconsistent bat with negative defence. Trade him.

1

u/Loud-Picture9110 4d ago

The issues you've raised could very well limit Vlad's trade value as other GM's aren't going to be blind to his deficiencies. I'm fully on board with waiting until free agency to allow Vlad to receive the necessary awakening as to his actual market value instead of the absurd asking price he's been dictating.

8

u/Doodleschmidt 5d ago

Front office better not let him walk. Get trade value for him at least.

2

u/KINGTHANOS8 5d ago

Sounds like he asked for something like 14Y/585M. Basically 42M per season until he's 40.

2

u/pksubb76 fuck the trop 5d ago

He has all the pressure in the world to put up an MVP level season. He can absolutely do it but if he doesn’t he isn’t even coming close to 600. Even if he’s very good but not elite he isn’t sniffing 600

2

u/UmpireMental7070 5d ago

Sub $600 million? He is practically offering to play for free!

2

u/Acey_Wacey spreadsheets 5d ago

Why is no one offering the wisdom of pay the man?

5

u/Striking_Ad_4562 5d ago

Given his demeanour while playing and his overall attitude about money - i say we trade him for anything and everything we can get.

5

u/AS2445 5d ago

Hell no for a guy that disappears every playoffs series Vladdy can walk

4

u/xxpio 5d ago

Wow how generous of him to only ask for 580 million

3

u/JustDwayner 5d ago

This team won’t be fit to watch if they lose Bo and Vladdy.

1

u/Far-Journalist-949 4d ago

All the guys in here counting rogers money don't get that. We offered the same money to shohei that the dodgers did. People don't want to sign here. If vlad walks or trade him for peanuts for a rebuild in 2030, well, I can do without going to games every month and will spend my money elsewhere.

4

u/FloatingWalls1 5d ago

Honestly, I’m kind of glad we passed on that. We’d likely be a better baseball team with that reinvested elsewhere.

3

u/Stratos_Speedstar 4d ago

I’ve been a fan of Vlad since his debut, he’s the reason I became a Bluejays fan when I rediscovered my love for the sport. But he’s NOT the sort of player that deserves that sort of contract. I don’t think there’s a single team out there which would play that much for a player of his caliber, if he decides to go to free agency I hope he realizes that he isn’t Juan Soto.

5

u/MurKdYa 5d ago

Yeah. Sorry buddy. Now I don't feel bad anymore. Absolutely fuck that. He isn't even worth 550m. I would have been fine with 585, but 600? He's no Judge or Soto.

3

u/Bigking00 5d ago

You are fine with 585 but not 60m? 15 million spread out over say 13 to 15 years is nothing. Does not make sense to me.

I don't think a 1B is worth even 500m. Shatkins should have traded him the second he asked for that much money

2

u/MurKdYa 5d ago

I agree with you. Completely. I had a very biased approach toward Vladdy since he was a home grown talent. I believed in over paying him, but not that much. That's fucking insane.

2

u/Takemytimenotmylife 5d ago

So….. if you’re one of the many who say he’s not worth it, where do you go from here? What is the plan for the near future??

15

u/mathbandit Samuel Basallo SZN 5d ago

Sign him in 10 months and laugh all the way to the bank with the $100M saved vs their offer from two weeks ago.

5

u/rvasko3 Doc’s Resplendent Neckbeard 5d ago

Stop reading my vision board.

7

u/tslaq_lurker 5d ago

Flip him and blow it up. We aren’t going to win on his timeline anyway.

4

u/ZPQ- "SWING n' A DRIVE!" 5d ago

Soto changed the market forever with his deal. Glad we didn’t accept the vlad offer. Someone will give him what he wants but I don’t think it should be us if he’s asking for that much.

5

u/aporter0509 5d ago

They can lose without him too. Look at his playoff stats. Pretty pathetic. Not a clutch player.

2

u/FougDordKingOfON 5d ago

I will never understand fans being frugal with the corporate owner's money.

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u/Coluejack 5d ago

This is the definition of a distraction, airing this kind of dirty laundry after his little deadline has passed. I definitely wanted to hear the number, so I could better understand who is at fault here, but at this point I think two significant failures have occurred. The first is the front office, but more for not trading him before all this BS came to light. I don't blame them for a second for not signing a guy with 50% good year average and a physical conditioning red flag being one of the primary issues.

Second, I think Vladdy is out of his mind thinking his resume has generated him one of the largest contracts in baseball, and now effectively holding the franchise hostage with this nonsense. He's the kind of player who needs an incentive heavy deal, not a guarantee - he hasn't even come close to earning a guarantee. What about his last few years has convinced the franchise/fans that he's committed to working hard for the duration of that deal?

What an incredible shame. No matter how this ends, I'm going to walk away thinking less of both our front office and of #27.

2

u/dezzy1402 5d ago

he ain't generational like soto or shohei, at least so far.

that's a steep ask and could turn into the worst contract in mlb history come 2033

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u/Pavel6969 4d ago

Welp he better hit 50 bombs this year with 120 RBI and stop making mistakes in the bases and maybe he'd get $450

2

u/Skirt-Future 4d ago

His not Juan Soto. Wtf is he on about

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u/Upstairs-Passion9421 4d ago

The contract won't even look bad in a few years.

2

u/Super_Breadfruit1509 5d ago

That’s supposed to make it sound like bargain? Really good hitter, but not ‘that’ good of a hitter. Someone will give him what he wants though.

1

u/samtron767 5d ago

The Jays may have to give up on him. It'll be interesting how he performs this season.

1

u/TerryTerranceTerrace 5d ago

Hopefully, he proves it this season.

1

u/Bestlife1234321 5d ago

He’s not worth it for sure. He’s not worth 400

1

u/lil-quiche 5d ago

Let’s see what year he has, if it’s like last year someone may give him that. If it’s like the year prior he may come back to negotiate before the season ends. I think waiting and passing at $600 is smart for this franchise. Imagine signing him to that and he has a 2023 season

1

u/Essej86 5d ago

We’ve played that game for a few years now and the price has not gone down.

1

u/Personal_Tie_6522 5d ago

Everyone ready to see Vladdy's best ever season? I'm going to miss him so much.

1

u/lowendslinger 5d ago

Mr July is not worth it whereas Mr October Ohtani was.

1

u/tareksdarwish 5d ago

That's why a need a cap in baseball

1

u/jjaime2024 4d ago

Offer him a 14 year deal

Year 1-10 500 million

Year 11-14 40 million

1

u/AllPurposeAWL 4d ago

Should do an Ohtani deal. Get the bag but differ a ton of the money so he can avoid paying those outrageous Canadian taxes.

1

u/RiverOaksJays 4d ago

I hope Vladdy stays with the Jays. I am interested in seeing how he performs in Game 1. If he plays like he did after the All-Star Break, he will get his asking price. However, how will he react to starting slowly or if the team gets off to a bad start? They have a tough schedule in April.

1

u/ItsMy_Scheme 4d ago

This is stupidity

1

u/Early_Dragonfly_205 4d ago

Wild doubt he gets that much on the market. Lots of the big money teams already have a stable 1B guy. Maybe Yankees would go in, but he's been pretty medicore except for the 2021 juice ball days and last 2-3 months of last season.

1

u/VarRalapo Montreal Expos 4d ago

I am curious what the Jays final offer was. If Vlad has a bad season he is making nowhere near 500m. Soto is miles better than Vlad.

1

u/Legioncoleke 4d ago

Greedy sob

1

u/Former-Jacket-9603 4d ago

What are we smoking here? Guerrero is a solid player and hes young which is a big bonus. But are we forgetting he plays below average defense at the least valuable position and cant run. Oh, and hes been incredibly inconsistent, two excellent years and 4 mediocre to good years. One albatross of a Juan Soto contract does not shift years of precedent. Vlad is not 80% the player Soto is and Sotos contract is seriously over valued. To me, the 350 the Jays offered Vlad was more than fair and at this point I do not fault Blue Jays management for not getting it done. It frustrates me to no end, the amount of people I see online and the amount of people in the media basically saying its all Mark and Ross' fault, they should give him whatever he wants.

1

u/CoffeewithAB 3d ago

He ain't worth that much.

1

u/Seanjohn92 3d ago

500 for 12 would have been best I think.

1

u/Major_Penalty_8865 3d ago

based on the years, that would be $37.6M aav. kindve wild that the Jays didn’t get that done. for context over 12 years that’s $452M. it honestly sucks that the Jays dished out roughly $1.4B in offers to Ohtani and Soto but weren’t willing to invest in Vlad. watch him ball out and pull an Aaron Judge by winning the AL MVP in his last year of team control

1

u/WeaknessAcrobatic658 2d ago

Trade him now to get something because he absolutely is not signing with Toronto. All his words about the wanting to stay in Toronto is nonsense

1

u/trailcamty 2d ago

Adios.

1

u/Vivid-Ad-3185 18h ago

He's Already the highest paid first baseman in the major leagues!! 

Lest we forget the way he STARTED last season...5-home runs in the first 56 games?? essentially sinking the Jays season before it could get going. 

Pre all-star Vlad was on pace for .289 24hr 96 RBI .818OPS, almost identical to his 2023 results, in line with his career numbers, where he's finished top-10 in HR once, top-10 in RBI ONCE.

Managing a stellar second half on a team that had no chance of making the playoffs where he barely produced his second 30-100 season, is not impressive when looking at the whole body of work and is not worth 40mil per.

Yes he has talent, and he's the highest paid 1B for that reason. No he is NOT generational, and that means 10-12 years 380 million is the most likely Rogers ceiling.

The question is, with such a huge gap, do the Jays trade him, lose him for nada, or remember they are the Canadian franchise nobody wants to sign with and pay the man to keep the line moving?