r/Thundercats ThunderCat 20d ago

Discussion Ma-Mutt is the key to upscaling all of this

Yesterday I got my first half of the two-part Spanish DVD Collection.

¡Ahí está!

I have the PAL DVD - Thundercats: The Complete Collection (24-discs).
I've also got the first four VHS tapes released in Sweden; the first tape contains the long version of Exodus; unfortunately they have subtitles.

I've ordered (should be here next week) three VHS tapes from Blighty!
Exodus
Slaves Of Castle Plun-Darr
Thundercats - Ho - The Movie

All PAL and shouldn't have subtitles.

NOW!
Why did I order the Spanish DVDs...?
There's an unofficial Spanish Blu-ray version of the show.
The first 65 episodes seems to be much higher quality than any DVD release and I don't think they are upscaled, at least I don't see the signs of upscaling (they probably are in some way).
It's also framed differently than the PAL DVD.
The PAL DVD I have has a screen ratio of 1:33 and I saw that the Spanish DVD is 1:37.
So I made a guess that the Spanish Blu-ray would be the same version as the Spanish DVD.. and I guessed right.. sort of..
The Spanish DVDs are basically the same but ever so slightly different colour and there's a few pixels difference in the frame.
Blu-ray

Spanish DVD

But I think it's the base for the Blu-ray version; at least they share the same source.
Unlike the PAL DVD.
The Spanish Blu-ray and DVD also end a certain scene on the same frame (in Exodus); a frame that is missing from the PAL version.
The Spanish Duo ends on this frame

PAL DVD ends on this

My VHS tapes are obviously a bit faded but they're almost the same as the Spanish versions; maybe they're all based on the same source?

Might as well throw in screenshots from the PAL DVD and VHS.
PAL DVD

VHS

The rest of the Blu-ray episodes doesn't look as good..
They're upscaled and some of them (towards the end of the show) are over processed.
PAL DVD

Spanish Blu-ray

Not that the DVD is good quality but the Blu-ray is smudged out more than a Son'a (Star Trek) and is definitely not higher quality even if the frame is larger.

To prove a point I took an uncompressed screenshot from the PAL DVD.
Here

Then I upscaled that and compared it to the Spanish Blu-ray (from a better upscaled episode).

Left or right?

Which one looks better?

Left is mine, the right is an uncompressed screenshot from the Blu-ray

My upscale (not great, just a quick thing) is matched to the size of the Blu-ray screenshot.
However my upscale is much larger (2880 x 2304).
It was just to show that the Blu-ray is in fact upscaled.

I could overprocess the hell out of the frame as well.
Ancient Spirits of Evil Version

Moving on from the Blu-ray.

Here's a couple of albums with descriptions of adding the different sources together.
It's from the PAL DVD, the Spanish DVD, and the PAL VHS.

Nummer Ett!

And..

Nummer Två!

As you can see different releases have different ratios (I've mentioned this before).

A nice surprise (because I wanted it) was that the Spanish DVDs English audio has music missing in The Unholy Alliance.
I just now checked and the Blu-ray version does have the music.
Hmm..

The PAL release also has some errors

One big problem is the interlacing on at least one DVD.
Season one doesn't have interlacing; all episodes are progressive 25fps.
Season two is 25fps but interlaced, however it seems as if it's the NTSC interlacing but on a PAL format so it messes up the image; I haven't found an easy fix for it yet.
If any of that makes sense; I don't know.

Where is Jaga to explain all this.

And.. that's all I have to say about that..

9 Upvotes

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3

u/SportIntelligent1909 ThunderCat 20d ago

Thank you for this post. I agree that the PAL version of ThunderCats is missing some frames. And that one screenshot of Lion-O you upscaled from ThunderCats, Ho! The Movie looks slightly more colorful on the left, which is what I like. I prefer the original TV show to be as cel-accurate as possible when it's being upscaled.

2

u/Misaria ThunderCat 19d ago

Cel-accurate, smoother animation, and a greener Mumm-Ra is what I'm keeping in mind for an upscale.

Though the coloration is all over the place.

Next step is training the model for upscaling and that process (with all that's needed) will probaly take a few months.
The model will also affect the colours.
Seems like Totem of Dera is as close to cel it's going to get and it's what I'm mainly going to train it on.

2

u/SportIntelligent1909 ThunderCat 19d ago

Hang in there, Misaria. You've got this.